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cenotaph posted:Yeah, Sid Sackson is really the only designer that was prolific in the way modern designers are. Came in here to recommend Can't Stop, another Sackson from 1980. It's a fun little dice game - a bit like if Yahtzee had a lot more choices. There's a free android app of it (and I assume there is one for iPhone too) that is only slightly buggy. I can't even stay mad at the app when it crashes because I always have to smile when my phone informs me "Unfortunately, Can't Stop has stopped."
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Aug 22, 2016 02:24
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Lorini posted:So basically you are asking if you should buy the equivalent of a cell phone from the last century. The hobby moves on and the best games are generally the ones that were made within the last five years. This is a really strange thing to say. Surely you wouldn't say the same thing about old books, movies, videogames, etc?
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Aug 22, 2016 02:48
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Sailor Viy posted:This is a really strange thing to say. Surely you wouldn't say the same thing about old books, movies, videogames, etc? I wouldn't, but it doesn't really change that the majority of old board games are poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:56
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Jimbozig posted:Came in here to recommend Can't Stop, another Sackson from 1980. It's a fun little dice game - a bit like if Yahtzee had a lot more choices. My time spent getting wasted and playing Can't Stop on BGA via Mumble was the best years of my depressed life, I recommend it with great psychogamer enthusiasm.
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Aug 22, 2016 02:58
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Sailor Viy posted:This is a really strange thing to say. Surely you wouldn't say the same thing about old books, movies, videogames, etc? What Mega 64 said. Also he was asking about last century, I said five years but it could be 10 as well...game design has developed a lot since the last century. I think books are not in this category. Movies are if you care about 3D and stuff like that. Look at all the mechanics that have either been discovered (deck building and worker placement) or developed (role selection, auctioning). I don't know that you can call game design 'tech' but in some ways it works that way. Video games are barely playable from last century. I can't think of one video game from last century that I like more than even the mediocre video games that I play now, they are certainly tech.
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Aug 22, 2016 03:23
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Lorini posted:What Mega 64 said. Also he was asking about last century, I said five years but it could be 10 as well...game design has developed a lot since the last century. I think books are not in this category. Movies are if you care about 3D and stuff like that. Look at all the mechanics that have either been discovered (deck building and worker placement) or developed (role selection, auctioning). I don't know that you can call game design 'tech' but in some ways it works that way. I half agree with you. Video games, like board games, needed a massive market push to drive new blood into developing them. For video games that was the market crash that led to individuals founding their own independent studios and for board games it was Catan that led to the same push. But some things have been perfected and just can't be improved upon. I don't know what kind of taste you have but platformers were perfected with Super Mario World and pretty much nothing after improved on it. Likewise I have yet to play an area control that's as interesting as El Grande. Even among new-ish games Dominion is basically the only deck builder I can safely say would be called a "classic" 20 years from now despite every month seeing a new deck builder.
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Aug 22, 2016 03:52
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Sailor Viy posted:This is a really strange thing to say. Surely you wouldn't say the same thing about old books, movies, videogames, etc? I think you could make a reasonable argument that very early books, like 18th century novels and the like, were usually bad, and that this was because there wasn't yet the literary "technology" (critical theories, stylistic guides, and so on) to point writers in the right direction. The form of the novel hasn't changed much since the modernists at the turn of the 20th century, so good novels have been produced "forever" from our viewpoint. You see the same trend in other genres, just compare SF written before and after the New Wave of the sixties. Movies have been through several stages of technological improvement and refinement in cinematography. The earliest films were little more than recorded stage plays (without dialogue, even).
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Aug 22, 2016 03:53
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OK a friend and I started seriously discussing this and here is a list of games that are favorites of Joe Huber, a board game connoisseur deluxe. Some are from last century. The only two I'd play today from that discussion are Bohnanza and 6 nimmt.
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Aug 22, 2016 03:54
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ASL ASL ASL
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Aug 22, 2016 04:09
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Lorini posted:What Mega 64 said. Also he was asking about last century, I said five years but it could be 10 as well...game design has developed a lot since the last century. I think books are not in this category. Movies are if you care about 3D and stuff like that. Look at all the mechanics that have either been discovered (deck building and worker placement) or developed (role selection, auctioning). I don't know that you can call game design 'tech' but in some ways it works that way. This is a bizarre post. You don't still see the value in Pacman, Tetris, Mario Brothers, or Breakout, all of which have had popular modern incarnations released within your seemingly arbitrary timeframe? Barely playable is such a weird way to put that, especially since early games are very pared down arcade games that are designed specifically to be immediately playable without any real textual information or pre-existing knowledge (that's like the entire point of an arcade game!). Also, books absolutely have changed over time. Changes in technology have lead to things like graphic novels, the very format of the novel itself with cheaper printing presses and distribution leading to an increased consumption of reading for pleasure, and the publishing industry is currently being destroyed and reformed by digital books. And 3D as a sweeping technology for movies? Uh... that remains to be seen, but I doubt it. Even stuff that came before certain epochs (sound, color, modern editing and direction) is still widely considered to be high points of the form: The Kid, Faust, Metropolis, etc. are all still viewed as highly influential and well made films, despite not having color or sound. In terms of tabletop games, I think that game design has matured over the past 10 years or so, but there are still many worthwhile games from before that period (also I'm assuming you mean decade instead of century). Artificially limiting yourself to a narrow view of any form is going to mean that you lack literacy in understanding the new stuff that's being developed. Dire Wombat posted:I think you could make a reasonable argument that very early books, like 18th century novels and the like, were usually bad, and that this was because there wasn't yet the literary "technology" (critical theories, stylistic guides, and so on) to point writers in the right direction. The form of the novel hasn't changed much since the modernists at the turn of the 20th century, so good novels have been produced "forever" from our viewpoint. This reads like you mainly read Warhammer novels and things with gruff looking people wielding swords on the front cover.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:16
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Jimbozig posted:Came in here to recommend Can't Stop, another Sackson from 1980. It's a fun little dice game - a bit like if Yahtzee had a lot more choices. On the weekend I had the misfortune to play a game called 'Roll for it'. You had six dice, rolled them once, and tried to get them to match to numbers on cards that were on the table. Probably one of the most tedious decisionless games I've played, and made me wish I was playing Can't Stop instead.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:17
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sector_corrector posted:This is a bizarre post. You don't still see the value in Pacman, Tetris, Mario Brothers, or Breakout, all of which have had popular modern incarnations released within your seemingly arbitrary timeframe? Barely playable is such a weird way to put that, especially since early games are very pared down arcade games that are designed specifically to be immediately playable without any real textual information or pre-existing knowledge (that's like the entire point of an arcade game!). He said CENTURY, read what he said. If he said DECADE I would have had a different response...there's decent enough games in the last decade. Geez. The time frame was not arbitrary, and no, I don't play those games anymore. So let's restate the question. The person wanted to know of games that were made last century because he wanted to know of games that had risen to the top. NOT games that were good during the time they came out. Big difference!!! Certainly there were great games for their time, no question. But for most of those games, their time is not now. Which is my point.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:25
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Lorini posted:OK a friend and I started seriously discussing this and here is a list of games that are favorites of Joe Huber, a board game connoisseur deluxe. Some are from last century. The only two I'd play today from that discussion are Bohnanza and 6 nimmt. I don't know who Joe Huber is but the only interesting game in that list post-2000 that I would snap decision play is Galaxy Trucker so you know tastes and stuff.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:25
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Lorini posted:He said CENTURY, read what he said. If he said DECADE I would have had a different response...there's decent enough games in the last decade. Oh, fair enough. I didn't track back far enough in the quote chain to get the full argument. That's still a bizarrely ahistorical view of movies, books, and digital games, but I guess that's more a matter of opinion than anything.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:31
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There's great work in every age of media, but things progress. You can appreciate Chaplin's films but that doesn't mean "Guy riding a horse silent film" is worthy of your time (except novelty or research). Games (and videogames) I think are even moreso, as technology and business were huge limiting factors. Old games were designed to eat your quarters above all else. Lots of 8-bit games used punishing difficulty to hide their tiny amounts of content. You don't see books that pad their length by forcing you to reread the same paragraph 20 times.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:31
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Crackbone posted:There's great work in every age of media, but things progress. You can appreciate Chaplin's films but that doesn't mean "Guy riding a horse silent film" is worthy of your time (except novelty or research). I mean, not *exactly*, but there sure are books that feel that way! <insert boring long book here>
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Aug 22, 2016 04:34
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silvergoose posted:I mean, not *exactly*, but there sure are books that feel that way! <insert boring long book here> I enjoy The Dresden Files, but Jim Butcher has definitely made me read a few of the same paragraphs 20 times.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:36
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sector_corrector posted:This reads like you mainly read Warhammer novels and things with gruff looking people wielding swords on the front cover. Uhh no, dude. I'm trying to say that Ursula Leguin and Iain Banks are better than Howard and Lovecraft, at least at a technical level. There's a big difference between the most well-liked writers now and a hundred years ago, at least in genre fiction. There are more examples I could use, like just compare children's books now and then. Harry Potter isn't very good by grown-up standards, but it's goddamn Proust compared to the old boarding-school stories that inspired it. Literary fiction has been mature for a lot longer, like at least 250 years, but before then few people took novels seriously, because they were mostly p bad.
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Aug 22, 2016 04:37
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Dire Wombat posted:Uhh no, dude. I'm trying to say that Ursula Leguin and Iain Banks are better than Howard and Lovecraft, at least at a technical level. There's a big difference between the most well-liked writers now and a hundred years ago, at least in genre fiction. There are more examples I could use, like just compare children's books now and then. Harry Potter isn't very good by grown-up standards, but it's goddamn Proust compared to the old boarding-school stories that inspired it. Literary fiction has been mature for a lot longer, like at least 250 years, but before then few people took novels seriously, because they were mostly p bad. I was going to type up a reply to this, but it made my head hurt. I'll just say: you're not even wrong.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:02
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sector_corrector posted:I was going to type up a reply to this, but it made my head hurt. I'll just say: you're not even wrong. I should say that there are good old books. I'm not trying to diss Don Quixote here. I know the novel developed out of an established tradition of English drama and poetry that was really good, since those forms had been carried down intact from the Greeks and Romans who developed them. I still reckon that the craft of writing has evolved with the times, and that it's possible for writers to build on older work and improve their skills over the centuries. I'd post something about board games here, but I've been stuck in a new city without a group for a while. I'm hoping to stop derailing the thread by next week 
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Aug 22, 2016 05:13
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Dire Wombat posted:I should say that there are good old books. I'm not trying to diss Don Quixote here. I know the novel developed out of an established tradition of English drama and poetry that was really good, since those forms had been carried down intact from the Greeks and Romans who developed them. I still reckon that the craft of writing has evolved with the times, and that it's possible for writers to build on older work and improve their skills over the centuries. This is a different position than "books were bad in the past because people didn't know how to write as well as they do now." Also, it's funny that you mentioned Proust, because In Search of Lost Time is far more technically excellent and stylistically complicated than, like, any book you'll grab at random if you close your eyes and thrust blindly in the "literary fiction" department of Borders.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:19
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sector_corrector posted:This is a different position than "books were bad in the past because people didn't know how to write as well as they do now." Also, it's funny that you mentioned Proust, because In Search of Lost Time is far more technically excellent and stylistically complicated than, like, any book you'll grab at random if you close your eyes and thrust blindly in the "literary fiction" department of Borders. But is it... fun?
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Aug 22, 2016 05:31
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al-azad posted:But is it... fun? Friend: it's a hoot and a holler.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:33
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T-Bone posted:Through the Desert (98) is well regarded but I haven't actually played it. It's biggest sin really is the fact it that it is ugly as poo poo, and that the two other Knizia game in that "series" happen to be really good ones (Tigris & Euphrates, Samurai). You can't but pale in comparison a bit. I've always rather enjoyed Uwe's Bohnanza when I've had that out.
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Aug 22, 2016 05:34
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homullus posted:Chapel is still pretty great! I've been stopping playing the campaigns for Dominion Online to the point where when I'm half-asleep going to bed I forget that buys, cards, and actions are not things that apply to real-world purchases, and I can confirm that just pitching a hand of estates and copper to a chapel is basically the Dominion equivalent of crack. I start getting the shakes when I go too many junk-heavy kingdoms without good trashing (or without any trashing, which is true suffering). There's a couple of stinkers in the base set (Bureaucrat, Spy, Thief, and Adventurer come to mind), but man if the design elegance isn't a quality in and of itself compared to some of the later, wordier cards that go into niche engines.
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Aug 22, 2016 06:05
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Kiranamos posted:Just send an email to Bezier Games and they'll send you replacement tokens. Board game customer service is generally really good in this department. Done, thanks!
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Aug 22, 2016 06:41
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Jimbozig posted:Came in here to recommend Can't Stop, another Sackson from 1980. It's a fun little dice game - a bit like if Yahtzee had a lot more choices. the best implementation of can't stop will always be the brettspielwelt one, just because of the sound effects aaaaaaaaaaa
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Aug 22, 2016 06:44
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Got my copy of Coup with the Brazilian art, and let me say: The art is loving gorgeous However, gently caress Indie Boards and Cards. I have the Kickstarter edition of Coup with all the different art, and the mobile edition of the game, as well as G54 all neatly housed in one box and it's real pretty and great. And then they print up the gorgeous Brazilian art and would you look at that the cards are a different loving size from the other two versions of the game they've already put out, so they're too big to fit in the same box with all my other copies. Alright, well I mean whatever, I have to carry one more box to game night then, right? Well that'd be fine if the box it comes in wasn't big enough to hold at least 8 copies of the loving game. I think this is the absolute maximum air:game ratio I've ever seen in a board game box. Except there's no board so I guess it's just this big for the rules? loving stupid. Gorgeous, but loving stupid.
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Aug 22, 2016 07:05
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Sockser posted:gently caress Indie Boards and Cards. Yeah
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Aug 22, 2016 07:14
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Don't worry, I'm sure Indie Boards and Cards will soon release a new version of Coup using the Brazilian art and the old card size.
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Aug 22, 2016 08:25
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You roll up to gamesnight with 6 different editions of Coup?
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Aug 22, 2016 11:26
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Dire Wombat posted:I should say that there are good old books. I'm not trying to diss Don Quixote here. I know the novel developed out of an established tradition of English drama and poetry that was really good, since those forms had been carried down intact from the Greeks and Romans who developed them. I still reckon that the craft of writing has evolved with the times, and that it's possible for writers to build on older work and improve their skills over the centuries. You absolutely need to stop talking about books mate. And, contrary to what you might've learned from cereal packets, everything wasn't invented in England.
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Aug 22, 2016 11:42
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Ras Het posted:everything wasn't invented in England. Most of the things worth inventing were invented in England, or England Jr. I mean, I guess the Jacquard Loom is cool, but its no spinning mule
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Aug 22, 2016 11:46
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Pre-2000 games I'll happily play: Fury of Dracula, Warrior Knights, Britannia, Advanced Civilization, Star Fleet Battles, Kings & Things, Lords of Creation, Space Hulk. I seem to recall that Fief: France 1429 is based on a design from 1981 as well, though I'd have to look it up to see what the differences are.
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Aug 22, 2016 12:09
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Mr. Squishy posted:You roll up to gamesnight with 6 different editions of Coup? Well how else are you supposed to count coup when you win?
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Aug 22, 2016 12:52
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StashAugustine posted:ASL ASL ASL I didn't see what the question was, but this is the answer
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Aug 22, 2016 14:02
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Rutibex posted:Most of the things worth inventing were invented in England, or England Jr. I mean, I guess the Jacquard Loom is cool, but its no spinning mule That's a phrase I had hoped to hear only once this summer...
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Aug 22, 2016 14:18
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I'm not sure what this thread's consensus on one of the Anticipated Games of the Year is, but when you just play the game with no expectations, Scythe is a really fun interesting game that I would happily keep replaying. Yey to no expectations!
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Aug 22, 2016 14:24
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Andarel posted:That's a phrase I had hoped to hear only once this summer... I'm torn between curiosity and dread about the inevitable wall of text coming that will calmly explain to me how anything important was invented in England and the United States.
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Aug 22, 2016 14:24
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COOL CORN posted:I didn't see what the question was, but this is the answer ASL is usually the question.
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Aug 22, 2016 14:34
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