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Mr. Crow posted:Sure are a lot of people on here defending poor design decisions. Nice meltdown
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Aug 22, 2016 18:27
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Mr. Crow posted:Sure are a lot of people on here defending poor design decisions. 
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Aug 22, 2016 18:28
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What else did I miss?
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Aug 22, 2016 18:28
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So maybe a dumb question, trying to get into this in some way since I keep bouncing off it. I'm 'out' in Arque doing the bounty community thing, but I've lost a couple Eagles to what might be stupidity or might be my misunderstanding something. It seems like NPCs rated Dangerous can be significantly different in terms of actual threat? Is this a per ship thing, since I can take out some of them without any problems and others just slaughter me in a pass or two?
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Aug 22, 2016 18:32
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Elite would be more fun if there was no money, but you'll never convince the capitalists of that.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:32
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I'd be totally fine with no player authored story if the player driven story wasn't so piece meal. It takes months for any kind of story to progress and then it's entirely limited to the Canonn UA megathread on the brown sea with one of the devs occasionally handing out clues to nudge the die hard neckbeards in the right direction. At least make some of this poo poo apparent and solvable in-game and at a pace that is a little quicker than galactic.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:35
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I keep seeing advice to use lvl 1 mats to grind up engineers. Does no one think it is quicker to just do 3 of each level? I've found it is far easier to just simply make sure you have the right commodities for tier 1-4 ranks and level them up that way. Very rarely do you NOT have the common materials required for at least one of the mods for each rank.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:36
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I would like it if Elite had real MMO style interactions (not taking is far as EVE, but like a halfway). But since they've made it clear that such a thing will never happen and they don't want it to happen then you might as well just open the flood gates on convenience features. There is no meta-game to protect, there is no group power balance to consider, there is no player economy that matters. I mean for fucks sake this a game that lets you go offline to avoid players in populated systems and reappear online wherever/whenever you wish. Or to endlessly refresh your mission board. And it's not considered an exploit. This is not a system with any integrity worth protecting. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 18:36
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Orv posted:So maybe a dumb question, trying to get into this in some way since I keep bouncing off it. I'm 'out' in Arque doing the bounty community thing, but I've lost a couple Eagles to what might be stupidity or might be my misunderstanding something. It seems like NPCs rated Dangerous can be significantly different in terms of actual threat? Is this a per ship thing, since I can take out some of them without any problems and others just slaughter me in a pass or two? I think (and someone will come along shortly to correct me on this) that Dangerous is round about the rank where NPCs will start showing up with the occasional Engineer-modded weaponry, so that may be part of it. It is also where they start being able to actually fly their ships rather than just fly in circles and joust, especially with the AI improvements they put in a while back. So you'll definitely start seeing a larger difference between ships as their rank increases and they start squeezing more and more capability out of those ships. A poorly flown FAS will not be much more of a threat than a poorly flown Adder; put a Dangerous NPC in the two, and they will start to be very different targets.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:55
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KakerMix posted:Instant ship transfers will have dick-all affect on any aspect of the game because you already can't have an effect on those things that people are dreaming up conflict about. You're certainly entitled to your opinion about whether instant ship transfer is good or not, but this argument is just dumb. Of course it will have an actual, tangible effect on many aspects of the game. Here's a random example that I dreamed up in five seconds, just off the top of my head: Say a player is out PvP pirating, and after a long, fruitless patrol, he finally zeroes in on a weak-looking PC trader. There's a mad dash, and the trader just barely beats the pirate to a station's docking bay. The pirate lingers outside, with guns drawn. The trader repairs her freighter, wipes her brow, and considers her limited options. The obvious ones are: 1.) Log out like a wimpy spoilsport. 2.) Hide for a while and hope the pirate loses interest. 3.) Negotiate, if the pirate's willing to RP the situation. 4.) Blast out of the station at full speed in an attempt to outrun the blockade, hoping to put enough distance between herself and the pirate to survive. 5.) Purchase and outfit a stock fighter--if there just happens to be a shipyard at the station--and engage the pirate in a desperate dogfight that she knows will probably be weighted against her. With instant ship transfer, the trader has a new option: She can push a few buttons and instantly beep-boop herself her favorite Class-A, Grade-5, pimped out Anaconda. The pirate's surprised to suddenly be facing a much stronger foe than he had any reason to expect, and as his ship goopily corrodes into pieces around him, he wonders why the hell he even bothers doing any of this. In a magical instant transfer universe, he realizes, being a smart pirate and singling out weak targets doesn't mean anything anymore. Love the mechanic or hate it, but if you think instant ship transfer will have a "dick-all effect on any aspect of the game," I'm not sure you've thought it though very thoroughly. Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 19:01
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Trustworthy posted:You're certainly entitled to your opinion about whether instant ship transfer is good or not, but this argument is just dumb. Of course it will have an actual, tangible effect on many aspects of the game. Nice, source your meltdown quote.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:09
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The thing that is most annoying about instant ship transfer is that it's prohibitively expensive. Decide you want to participate in this new CG way outside the bubble? Have fun jumping your poo poo range Vulture or FDL all the way out there because you can't afford the millions cost to transfer it, instead of just waiting X minutes. It's going to be counter intuitive and limiting in the worst possible way. I find it hilarious because everyone defending it to the death will be bitching about how expensive it is when it releases.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:09
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Trustworthy posted:You're certainly entitled to your opinion about whether instant ship transfer is good or not, but this argument is just dumb. Of course it will have an actual, tangible effect on many aspects of the game. Why does the PvP player you mention in your just-made-up-on-the-spot-definitely-haven't-thought-about-this-at-all-noway example matter? Who gives a poo poo what they think? Why does the PvP player in your example get to be the one slighted against vs. the 'weak-looking' PC trader? Also I'm about to blow your mind ready here we go: How do you know that in your " She can push a few buttons and instantly beep-boop herself her favorite Class-A, Grade-5, pimped out Anaconda." instance she, instead, pulls out her favorite Class-A, Grade 5, pimped out Anaconda that happens to be stored at the station you've chased her to. There is no difference between that and her paying the $ to have it transferred because you can't tell which is the event that happened. So yeah ~to me~ this means that it will indeed have dick-all effect because you can't tell. If you can't tell then it doesn't matter. edit I mean with how you are talking about this I'm either getting taken for a ride (I hope o lordy I hope) or you don't uh, 'get' how the meta in this game works. What would make more sense is instead of bitching about a hypothetical you'd bitch about the real which is you would never see a weak-looking PC trader because that weak-looking PC trader will always and forever be in private or solo mode where you, the cool and awesome pirate that has lots of cool friends and says neat things like 'go to hell' with sunglasses on will never be able to touch her. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 19:10
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Chomp8645 posted:Nice, source your meltdown quote. All my opinions come directly from an extremely well-regarded Chris Roberts / Sean Murray slash-fic 
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Aug 22, 2016 19:11
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Also why would someone who has a top tier fitted Anaconda not trade in their Fuckyacht all the time? If your answer is immersion, do not pass go, do not collect spacebux.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:15
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Orv posted:Also why would someone who has a top tier fitted Anaconda not trade in their Fuckyacht all the time? If your answer is immersion, do not pass go, do not collect spacebux. The correct answer is always my immersion KakerMix posted:Also I'm about to blow your mind ready here we go: LOL "Wow, I've run into this trader five times this week, and she's always got a half-billion credit warship hidden at every station she goes to! Welp better just RP that as legit because it's part of the  "
Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 19:18
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Orv posted:Also why would someone who has a top tier fitted Anaconda not trade in their Fuckyacht all the time? If your answer is immersion, do not pass go, do not collect spacebux. because as someone that has played Elite: Dangerous for all of 10 minutes I still have the wrong ideas about things, like cargo ships are the best to trade cargo in because they are cargo ships and definitely not the Anaconda murder boat with a poo poo ton of shield cells and certainly NOT a wicked-fast heavily-armored and armed Cutter that will scoff at any PVP punks little fighter ship. Trustworthy posted:The correct answer is always immersion. Ok this is the part where I bow out of the fight and go "played your hand too early nice job" because lmao I can't keep up with your schizophrenic misunderstanding of how Elite: Dangerous the space videogame actually plays.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:18
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KakerMix posted:you would never see a weak-looking PC trader because that weak-looking PC trader will always and forever be in private or solo mode This is the only part that may not be true. I exclusively use Open Play no matter where I am or what defenseless tub I'm flying and it's been that way from minute 1. Same story for the friends that I play with. This is probably because we would mercilessly mock each other for hiding in Solo Play like a coward.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:19
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This is terrible.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:22
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Chomp8645 posted:This is the only part that may not be true. I exclusively use Open Play no matter where I am or what defenseless tub I'm flying and it's been that way from minute 1. Same story for the friends that I play with. Right but the crossover of someone that would play in open at all times but also "abuse" the instant ship transfer to fight a PVP person trying to prey on them (I guess they just dump all their cargo in their trade ship because remember you can't leave things in your ship when you switch to another one) seems pretty small.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:23
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KakerMix posted:Right but the crossover of someone that would play in open at all times but also "abuse" the instant ship transfer to fight a PVP person trying to prey on them (I guess they just dump all their cargo in their trade ship because remember you can't leave things in your ship when you switch to another one) seems pretty small. Ok that's a fair point. I'm also very skeptical of the entire "my prey barely got away into this station so now I'm gonna camp outside here" pirating scenario in the first place. Seems like an extremely rare situation to the point of statistical irrelevance.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:29
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TomR posted:This is terrible. Not as terrible as staring at "Marquis" for the last three evenings  Chomp8645 posted:I'm also very skeptical of the entire "my prey barely got away into this station so now I'm gonna camp outside here" pirating scenario in the first place. Seems like an extremely rare situation to the point of statistical irrelevance. Could be, I come into the filthy heart of the filthy bubble as infrequently as possible, so all I know about PvP piracy is old chestnut anecdotes. I did say my example was just off the top of my head. Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 19:33
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Luccion posted:I keep seeing advice to use lvl 1 mats to grind up engineers. Does no one think it is quicker to just do 3 of each level? I've found it is far easier to just simply make sure you have the right commodities for tier 1-4 ranks and level them up that way. Very rarely do you NOT have the common materials required for at least one of the mods for each rank. Ranks 2 and 3 often require poo poo you can't get easily, like mission reward items or the like. It's easier to just spend a dozen or so sulphur or phosphorus that you've no doubt got over 50-100 of (if you've done any surface prospecting) and move on. Once you get to rank 4 you clear that hump and can use whatever if you want to, but you can also just spam rank 1s with minimal effort. Like for example, I wanted to upgrade 3 large MCs to Overcharged 5 + Experimental. I started at rank 1, and used about 150 very common materials I had laying around and that got me up to around rank 4. Then I used 3 of the lightweight mount rank 4 upgrades (a cheap one) to get to 5. I rolled rank 5 upgrades till I was happy with the result, and had him add Incendiary to it. That left me with a great weapon, but now I was back to rank 3. So I just did that again: used tier 1 mods to get to rank 4, then 3 rank 4 mods to get to 5.
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Aug 22, 2016 19:38
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Hey you! Yeah, you! Are you coming back after months of inactivity? Are you a complete newbie? Do you want to learn how to do engineer stuff? Then boy do I have the thing for you! I present "The Tadpole's Uplifting Engineering Primer" -- this will tell you what you need to know, what you need to do, and all that great stuff. Check it out here: We all know it, and it is mentioned at the end of the paragraph, but where you say "Every time you roll an upgrade like this, you improve your rep with the Engineer." you might want to immediately follow that with 3x per rank upgrade text because that's good to know and not immediately obvious because you can't see engineer rank from the actual upgrade screen to see it moving. quote:Every time you roll an upgrade like this, you improve your rep with the Engineer. Three upgrades of the same rank as your engineer rep rank will progress your reputation to the next rank (e.g 3x of a type 4 mod will advance the engineer from rank 4 to 5). However, you can keep rolling the same rank 1 upgrade over and over again, and you’ll keep making rank progress even if you don’t ever intend to keep the upgrades and discard them all. Max rank is 5. ... I'm with you though, I find that it is easier to just use rank 1 mats to get to 3 or 4, then do a "cheap" mod to get up to 5 and then burn my rep to get a weapon mod applied. There's no use using stuff you might need later if you have a goddamn 150 sulfur because Bronzite Chondrite is apparently just a barrel of sulphur.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:08
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If you are upgrading weapons at Tod "the blaster" McQuinns place an easy way to repeatedly get grade 5 (after spending rep on experimental effects) is handing bounty vouchers in at his station.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:11
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I would argue that the fact that the PvP griefer can sit outside the station while the trader sits there completely defenseless then that's a terrible bullshit mechanic. If the trader flying a refrigerator box manages to make it to the station without getting blowed up, then they've won IMO.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:20
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MisterZimbu posted:I would argue that the fact that the PvP griefer can sit outside the station while the trader sits there completely defenseless then that's a terrible bullshit mechanic. The whole point is moot because any trader with half a brain is going to do it in Solo where they can't be attacked anyway.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:24
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MisterZimbu posted:I would argue that the fact that the PvP griefer can sit outside the station while the trader sits there completely defenseless then that's a terrible bullshit mechanic. They wouldn't sit inside, they'd log out or switch modes Edit Sweet gently caress beaten
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Aug 22, 2016 20:24
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Rhubarb94 posted:If you are upgrading weapons at Tod "the blaster" McQuinns place an easy way to repeatedly get grade 5 (after spending rep on experimental effects) is handing bounty vouchers in at his station. This is a good point. But he only accepts alliance bounties.  Additionally, you can also rep up by turning in Exploration Data to the following engineers: Felicity Farseer Professor Palin Elvira Martuuk And for the rest, you can sell commodities at their markets to get rep. Engineer Outposts also buy engineering commodities (Modular Terminals, Exhaust Manifolds, etc) at a very good price so you can sell off your excess ones before leaving.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:26
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MisterZimbu posted:I would argue that the fact that the PvP griefer can sit outside the station while the trader sits there completely defenseless then that's a terrible bullshit mechanic. It's a non-scenario. It's never gonna happen. No pirate is gonna camp a station waiting for somebody to come out because there is nothing to be gained from doing so. This is for two reasons. 1. You can't prevent the target from leaving. The trader can simply go into solo play or whatever and escape with no-repercussions or really even inconvenience. 2. It's dangerous. If that trader does come back out it's probably not because they are committing suicide. It's because they re-shipped into a much meaner boat and/or brought friends who are about to tag team your rear end.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:26
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It'd be nice if there was some content where the people available in Open was anything other than a detriment to my playing. But there isn't, so I continue to enjoy the single player game I bought.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:27
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:This is a good point. But he only accepts alliance bounties. I thought that, then I landed there after blasting some pirates at signal sources on my way to the station. He accepts any bounty from within that system, and also combat bonds from the conflict zones there.
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Aug 22, 2016 20:52
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CapnBry posted:This is great and I actually just learned I could buy armor mods for my Lightweight Armor. I just assumed that because it weighed nothing, that it must not be able to have any effects! Also it is a lot clearer who does what and how to do unlocking progression. Where were you two weeks ago when I decided to get Horizons and was all WTF HALP! For any explorers just getting into Engineers, just remember that you can't reduce your armor's weight below zero, so lightweight modding your default lightweight armor (which might make sense at first glance, if you're eager to boost your jump range) is literally useless. Like the guide says, go for the kickass heavy duty armor mod instead for a durability boost with no real downsides. edit: obligatory batshit thing about realtime ship transfer
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Aug 22, 2016 21:01
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CapnBry posted:You want to talk immersion, my character sat in the cockpit of a sidewinder for DAYS without getting out. Even when I went to starports and docked in the hanger, I would appear to remain in the cockpit. Clearly the pilot's seat is a toilet. Also, why didn't I have to realistically go through rehab when I got my asp? My legs muscles should have atrophied to the point the muscles were unusable and I never would have been able to get up and walk. Why didn't I have to fly to rehab planet and spend 3 days learning to walk again so I could make the journey from the cockpit cabin door to my new toilet chair? And where is my head for that matter? That's coming in 2.3. Mr. Crow posted:Sure are a lot of people on here defending poor design decisions. Here's why I need that ship right now: because I decided that I want to use it or want to do something that I need it for, and forcing me to wait is pointless punishment that serves no game design purpose. Particularly when I might only have an hour to play and don't want to spend 1/6th of that time waiting around pointlessly. Instant transfer also satisfies lore requirements, and I don't know why you're bringing up immersion since this game isn't very immersive at all. Trustworthy posted:You're certainly entitled to your opinion about whether instant ship transfer is good or not, but this argument is just dumb. Of course it will have an actual, tangible effect on many aspects of the game. Sounds great to me! That way the PvPer actually gets to have a fight, instead of sitting there like a fool hoping that a helpless target will willingly come out and commit suicide for their entertainment instead of using one of the at least three different ways they can get out of the station without the camper being able to see them. And since the only reason anyone "pirates" other players is as an excuse to PvP, everyone's happy.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:13
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Mr. Crow posted:Devils advocate, how does having some modest timer hinder your gameplay at all? At what point do you need to have your ship right now, where you couldn't have planned ahead 10 minutes? If they had released it without a timer in the first place would you have complained that there was a time gate or just be thankful we could move our ships? A modest timer means players will just sit in the station doing nothing until their ship arrives. Sandro said he'd rather players play the game than sit staring at a timer.  all you want, but that's a pretty decent attitude for a game designer to take imo. It's a shame he got battered down on the SRV fuel thing, lets not have a repeat of that bullshit.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:20
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Trustworthy posted:For any explorers just getting into Engineers, just remember that you can't reduce your armor's weight below zero, so lightweight modding your default lightweight armor (which might make sense at first glance, if you're eager to boost your jump range) is literally useless. Like the guide says, go for the kickass heavy duty armor mod instead for a durability boost with no real downsides. For Lightweight Bulkheads there is literally no mass penalty when applying heavy duty armor mod (adding a percentage of zero to zero equals zero) so go loving hog wild!
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Aug 22, 2016 21:25
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:Ranks 2 and 3 often require poo poo you can't get easily, like mission reward items or the like. It's easier to just spend a dozen or so sulphur or phosphorus that you've no doubt got over 50-100 of (if you've done any surface prospecting) and move on. I don't know about you, but through simply playing the game and collecting shite while I'm cruising around doing my thing, I've ended up with a plethora of mats. So much so, that now, because I didn't plan for it, I hate the fact that I expended so many of the low level mats. I hate that because turns out, all of those things are used in synthesis. I don't know, I just feel that simply playing the game and doing missions and poo poo, often times ends up giving you everything you need to visit an engineer for the first time and be able to boost it to lvl5. The ONLY requirement to this method is having a tiny bit of foresight and looking up the commodities that you will need to do 3 of each level mod.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:29
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What was the SRV fuel thing about? Like I know they have fuel, but you're way more likely to run out of hull than you are fuel. Was it different before?
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Aug 22, 2016 21:31
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Luccion posted:I don't know about you, but through simply playing the game and collecting shite while I'm cruising around doing my thing, I've ended up with a plethora of mats. So much so, that now, because I didn't plan for it, I hate the fact that I expended so many of the low level mats. I hate that because turns out, all of those things are used in synthesis. I don't know, I just feel that simply playing the game and doing missions and poo poo, often times ends up giving you everything you need to visit an engineer for the first time and be able to boost it to lvl5. The ONLY requirement to this method is having a tiny bit of foresight and looking up the commodities that you will need to do 3 of each level mod. That doesn't address the fact that you need poo poo that takes cargo space, causes pirates to chase you, and only come from missions. Whereas if you're out of sulphur you can go to any planet that has 25% or more sulphur and spend 10 minutes collecting another 100. In my experience, I always ended up having tons of everything except 1 component to do upgrades. And those components were always things that required rare drops from USSes or Missions. If you have the materials, then by all means use them. But if you don't have them, and just want to get it done ASAP, use the level 1 modification route. Keep this in mind: Literally every engineer has at least 1 pattern in their repertoire that requires a single unit of one of these: Sulphur, Iron, Carbon, Nickel, or Phosphorus. These are the most common materials in the game and are stupidly easy to collect in massive quantities. Kurr de la Cruz fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 21:34
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:For Lightweight Bulkheads there is literally no mass penalty when applying heavy duty armor mod (adding a percentage of zero to zero equals zero) so go loving hog wild! lol this reminds of the super-speed fighter exploit in Gratuitous Space Battles.
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Aug 22, 2016 21:35
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