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Is it common for a court case involving multiple defendants to reach the low 1,000's in motions, documents, etc. before trial or is it just pilling up because of the sovcit legal fuckery?
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Aug 25, 2016 00:36
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Mirthless posted:It is absolutely incredible to me that they spent four months giving him final warnings before they finally took away his right to defend himself, lol It's one of the things you take away absolutely last, because it entails effectively removing someone's legal autonomy. It's not hard to understand how such a court practice can be abused- and appellant courts would also see it as a last resort, unquestionable situations only sort of thing. cumshitter posted:Is it common for a court case involving multiple defendants to reach the low 1,000's in motions, documents, etc. before trial or is it just pilling up because of the sovcit legal fuckery? It varies heavily. A lot will have to do with the evidentiary record in this case. The sovcittery does not (again, in this case) appear to be a major factor. Discendo Vox has issued a correction as of 01:02 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 00:51
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Pictured: this loving trial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vN_PEmeKb0
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Aug 25, 2016 01:04
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Tayter Swift posted:Judge Brown is sick of Ryan Bundy's poo poo and will revoke his right to defend himself 
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Aug 25, 2016 03:22
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"The United States vs Ryan Bundy, docket number ..." "I AM STILL NOT A BOAT, I AM NOT IN A DOCK!"
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Aug 25, 2016 03:28
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Discendo Vox posted:It varies heavily. A lot will have to do with the evidentiary record in this case. The sovcittery does not (again, in this case) appear to be a major factor.
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Aug 25, 2016 04:10
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FilthyImp posted:Weren't there like 30 pages listing the evidence obtained against them. Like 30 pages of just a literal list of poo poo that was obtained? Most of it being ammo and guns, but more or less.
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Aug 25, 2016 04:23
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Shame there weren't any dildos left because that'd be hysterical seeing them listed One personal pleasure toy, black, "Thor" written on base One horse shaped personal pleasure toy, purple, "Wild Stallion" written on base One partial bag of candy labeled "Gummy dicks"
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Aug 25, 2016 06:32
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I really want to find out what happened to the 55 Gallon drum (sorry 54 gallon drum) of personal lubricant?
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Aug 25, 2016 06:42
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My guess, someone tried to drink it.
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Aug 25, 2016 06:43
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Jumpingmanjim posted:I really want to find out what happened to the 55 Gallon drum (sorry 54 gallon drum) of personal lubricant?
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Aug 25, 2016 06:46
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They found it. Remember the mystery warrant they wouldn't release the name for? They found that guy by following a snail trail of lube from the refuge to his hideout.. He shot out of there, straight home to Montana, like the teleportation scene from Galaxy Quest.
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Aug 25, 2016 06:56
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I thought the barrel of lube was listed, as opened, somewhere in those 30 pages?
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Aug 25, 2016 07:24
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Nope.
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Aug 25, 2016 07:25
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Ryan Bundy: I want to defend myself. "Gonna need a rreeeaaal big mouth for this smokestack you fuckman"
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Aug 25, 2016 07:36
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Casimir Radon posted:Come here David, why don't you slide on under your daddy's tarp? ftfy
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Aug 25, 2016 07:45
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MisterOblivious posted:I thought the barrel of lube was listed, as opened, somewhere in those 30 pages? Twas an edit. FilthyImp posted:Weren't there like 30 pages listing the evidence obtained against them. Like 30 pages of just a literal list of poo poo that was obtained? 20-something, I think. Note that you can have cases involving far more pieces of documentation and filings- it just depends on the matter. I think it's especially bad/huge in complex finance and corporate cases, or those (such as this one) involving criminal enterprises.
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Aug 25, 2016 08:07
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Discendo Vox posted:Twas an edit. Yeah I think I did that.
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Aug 25, 2016 10:48
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quote:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/08/federal_judge_to_ryan_bundy_sh.html
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Aug 25, 2016 10:50
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I almost wish I could get on that jury if anything so the middle of the trial I could shout "Toot toot, I'm a boat!" before being escorted out. After all, why should the Bundys have all the fun with outbursts
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Aug 25, 2016 13:25
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Tayter Swift posted:Judge Brown is sick of Ryan Bundy's poo poo and will revoke his right to defend himself I love this
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Aug 25, 2016 13:44
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Jumpingmanjim posted:I really want to find out what happened to the 55 Gallon drum (sorry 54 gallon drum) of personal lubricant? My guess is that they used it for target practice, and the remains are in the huge piles of trash the occupation generated.
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Aug 25, 2016 16:01
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Jumpingmanjim posted:Ammon Bundy's lawyer Marcus Mumford indicated that his client is likely to take the witness stand at trial.  I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when Ammon discussed that with his lawyer It couldn't have been Mumford's idea, right?
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Aug 25, 2016 16:08
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So what can the court do if they decide to be vocally petulant babies and scream at everything during the trial, can they be physically removed from the courtroom and tried in absentia
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Aug 25, 2016 16:12
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Tayter Swift posted:So what can the court do if they decide to be vocally petulant babies and scream at everything during the trial, can they be physically removed from the courtroom and tried in absentia Yeah, they can (and will) remove disruptive people from the courtroom if it happens during the trial, and they can be assigned (yes, assigned) jailtime and fines if the judge feels it's appropriate. Likewise when they ignore the rulings of the court. Considering the level of authority the judge has on this, contempt of court is a supremely dumb thing to gently caress with Mirthless has issued a correction as of 16:24 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 16:22
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Mirthless posted:
Ehhh, it seems like a reasonable hail mary considering the mountain of evidence against him. Testifying gives him the chance to try to sway a couple jurors with his personal charisma. If the jurors like him, they are less likely to convict on life-ruining charges.
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Aug 25, 2016 16:24
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On the other hand, this assumes he has personal charisma AND won't collapse into racist sovcit lunacy on cross.
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Aug 25, 2016 16:30
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Facebook Aunt posted:Ehhh, it seems like a reasonable hail mary considering the mountain of evidence against him. Testifying gives him the chance to try to sway a couple jurors with his personal charisma. If the jurors like him, they are less likely to convict on life-ruining charges. I know Ammon's about the most reasonable member of the bundy clan on trial but even then I would think the extremely high probability of him saying something dumb/incriminating would outweigh the potential benefit of him knocking it out of the park with the jury. Maybe they're hoping to land some LDS jurors and lay it on thick with the god angle, I know that Ammon's defense team is stacked with mormons Mors Rattus posted:On the other hand, this assumes he has personal charisma AND won't collapse into racist sovcit lunacy on cross. yeah like Ammon is definitely the least sovcit Bundy but he still doesn't think the federal government has any authority and has been very defiantly open about this so I don't know what would possess them to risk him going on a rant about federalist powers or some poo poo in the middle of what is basically a trial for treason Mirthless has issued a correction as of 16:35 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 16:32
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Mors Rattus posted:On the other hand, this assumes he has personal charisma AND won't collapse into racist sovcit lunacy on cross. Yeah, I assume he has a pretty good charisma stat. He was a salesman after all. And a lot of people made him their personal jesus after listening to him talk in person once or twice. His facts are nonsense, he was selling it with personal charisma.
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Aug 25, 2016 16:33
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Facebook Aunt posted:Yeah, I assume he has a pretty good charisma stat. He was a salesman after all. And a lot of people made him their personal jesus after listening to him talk in person once or twice. His facts are nonsense, he was selling it with personal charisma. Yeah but Ammon is used to preaching to LDS people and """ranchers""", not a jury of his peers, selected in part by a federal prosecutor He's going to have a lot harder time convincing people they're living under an admiralty in a courtroom setting, esp. if he is up against a lawyer (who probably has a much higher charisma stat than his)
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Aug 25, 2016 16:36
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"Least sovcit" is relative to the Bundy clan. There's video out there of Ammon meeting with an officer of the Harney County Sheriff's office as he held a radio for an FBI negotiator, so that they could speak with Ammon. Ammon repeatedly told the FBI negotiator he had no jurisdiction over him without the sheriff's say so, and when the FBI guy told him they were working with the Sheriff it blew Ammon's mind. I think he drove directly to the Sheriff's office to confirm it after the meeting, but they refused to meet with him and had his secretary confirm the story.
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Aug 25, 2016 17:16
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cumshitter posted:There's video out there of Ammon meeting with an officer of the Harney County Sheriff's office as he held a radio for an FBI negotiator, so that they could speak with Ammon. Ammon repeatedly told the FBI negotiator he had no jurisdiction over him without the sheriff's say so, and when the FBI guy told him they were working with the Sheriff it blew Ammon's mind. They were pretty consistently surprised at the lack of support - other militias, people of Burns, the county, public officials etc. They must have lived in a sort of insulated bubble of crazy and kinda just assumed the rest of the country was just like them.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:33
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Anos posted:They were pretty consistently surprised at the lack of support - other militias, people of Burns, the county, public officials etc. They must have lived in a sort of insulated bubble of crazy and kinda just assumed the rest of the country was just like them. Thing is, they got a ton of support, even got some of those fancy militias that use skulls and guns for logos to come out. The Bundys were unwilling to give up control and share the spotlight, though, so most of them left (and any members that stayed ran like hell after the traffic stop).
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Aug 25, 2016 21:50
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OAquinas posted:(and any members that stayed ran like hell after the traffic stop). This being the big point. They ran at the slightest show of force. What does that really say about these types. "I'll be your dedicated soldier!" "Oh poo poo, they arrested someone, gently caress I'm outta here!" *peels rubber*
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Aug 25, 2016 23:30
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I think my favorites were the literal weekend warriors. 'We're here to support you but we have to be out of here by nine, I got work in the morning and can't miss it and my wife's gotta take the kids to soccer.'
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Aug 25, 2016 23:38
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Mors Rattus posted:I think my favorites were the literal weekend warriors. 'We're here to support you but we have to be out of here by nine, I got work in the morning and can't miss it and my wife's gotta take the kids to soccer.' Or the guy whining that he hadn't gotten his disability check so he wouldn't be able to join them.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:41
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SocketWrench posted:This being the big point. They ran at the slightest show of force. What does that really say about these types. To be fair, they also killed Finicum at the traffic stop (after the guy started his second/third attempt to get heroically martyred/play out his fantasy of quick-drawing and gunning down 2 federal agents who already had a bead on him). The authorities proving they're willing to use lethal force is a good chilling effect on stupidity. That's about the only olive-branch I'm gonna give those idiots. They still scattered like roaches when the lights are turned on, and it was loving hilarious to watch.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:46
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why is the hipster banjo man representing one of the bundys lol
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Aug 26, 2016 01:13
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Alkydere posted:To be fair, they also killed Finicum at the traffic stop (after the guy started his second/third attempt to get heroically martyred/play out his fantasy of quick-drawing and gunning down 2 federal agents who already had a bead on him). The authorities proving they're willing to use lethal force is a good chilling effect on stupidity. But that was like the entire mantra the moment people showed up. "This is going to be a battle, they will shoot at us, possibly for no more reason than you standing there scratching your head". Unless this was a malitia LARP where they thought being shot means you have a paintball break on your skin. Then to top it off they had the mouthiest pussy ever playing news reporter being all big and bad when he knew no one would resort to violence and ran at the first sign of the trouble he'd been stirring for a month. Eat a dick Santilli, you should be in prison just as long as all of the Bundys quote:They still scattered like roaches when the lights are turned on, and it was loving hilarious to watch. A more accurate description could not be made.
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Aug 26, 2016 02:57
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SocketWrench posted:But that was like the entire mantra the moment people showed up. "This is going to be a battle, they will shoot at us, possibly for no more reason than you standing there scratching your head". Unless this was a malitia LARP where they thought being shot means you have a paintball break on your skin. Basically what I was saying was that these guys really were in LARP territory, they just didn't know it/admit it to themselves. Wrapped in a coddling blanket of white privilege, they never really had someone come down on them and force them real harm. Suddenly their leader is dead and they realize that the authorities really aren't on their side but also these guys have armored cars, snipers, drone support (mostly in the form of cameras but these hicks were probably thinking airstrikes) etc. and are playing for keeps. It was quite a wake-up call to the morons because until then they'd been allowed to get away with so much poo poo, even before Malheur, because they were white. Not just the Bundies, but a lot of the rural yokels that followed them kept getting "boys will be boys" treatment from local law enforcement and really hated the Feds because they only got in trouble when Big Brother realized what they were doing and told them to knock it off. So they already think that a good chunk of law enforcement is on their side. Mix this with the Feds playing the long game, backing off and only coming down on idiots who do something really stupid (like driving off of the nature preserve with stolen vehicles to pick up groceries). To many of these morons it was a confirmation of their belief that they had at least quiet support in the enemy camp. Then the Feds swoop down, capture all the leaders, gun down Finnicum and all of a sudden these fuckwits realize poo poo's real, this isn't a party anymore and being at home looks a lot safer now. This ain't no party, the Feds never had any quiet support for them and now they're bringing down the hammer of indiscriminate justice. Maybe I should go home and hug my baby girl instead? It's still absolutely hilarious/pathetic that these guys were such pussies, and many are still likely in denial about it. It was also a good thing as it prevented the occupation from being the bloodbath these guys said they wanted when they realized that the FBI wasn't going to advance in formation using muzzle-loading muskets to be easily gunned down and was instead gonna show up with helicopter and armored car support.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:19
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