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Equilibrium posted:Did you hate it when the Justice League cartoon pushed John Stewart over Kyle Rayner Yeah.
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Aug 25, 2016 13:38
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At least he hasn't said that Mr. Terrific is just a lame excuse at diversity or some such bullshit.
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Aug 25, 2016 15:46
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Cyborg is a character given a push to increase the diversity of the DC universe. Cyborg was chosen for that role because he already was a significant character due to the Teen Titans (comic and cartoon). Diversity is not a bad thing nor is changing things bad. Doing it in a bad way is dumb (Ted Kord) but that doesn't mean the outcome of that change is inherently bad.
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Aug 25, 2016 16:13
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Alucard Nacirema posted:Uh oh someones upset I disrupted their safe space! This is a safe space, you can tell us.
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Aug 25, 2016 17:01
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Equilibrium posted:
No because they didnt throw out or kill off anyone to do that. It was lame that Hawkgirl was a founding member instead of Aquaman though. Madkal posted:At least he hasn't said that Mr. Terrific is just a lame excuse at diversity or some such bullshit. Thats because Mr.Terrific is boss and was a revival of a Golden Age concept that hadn't been relevant in decades (if ever) Alucard Nacirema fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 19:11
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Alucard Nacirema posted:No because they didnt throw out or kill off anyone to do that. It was lame that Hawkgirl was a founding member instead of Aquaman though. You, uh, you do know that Ted Kord was explicitly the protegee of the murdered Dan Garrett, right?
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Aug 25, 2016 19:24
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ImpAtom posted:You, uh, you do know that Ted Kord was explicitly the protegee of the murdered Dan Garrett, right? No he doesn't. It's just another in the long line of dumb and uninformed bullshit he spews here.
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Aug 25, 2016 19:25
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The rest of what he's saying is dumb bullshit, but the Cyborg thing is somewhat accurate-I'd say it's a result of racism more than anything, though. Gotta have one token black guy but also keep Hal the headlining Lantern? Sure, Cyborg I guess. It speaks to DC's lack of representation that he was the most viable candidate.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:11
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I don't think Cyborg was a bad choice. He's just not written as well as he could be. Besides, there are decent alternatives to Cyborg if they wanted to have a black character, it's just that Cyborg is probably the most recognizable to casual readers.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:33
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That's my point, there are technically other black people in the DC universe but their all so obscure that after John Stewart the most popular is someone from a different popular team and who's Batman's sidekick's contemporary. His promotion to Justice League founder was completely inexplicable except for the fact that he's black and DC needed their quota filled. Which, I feel bears repeating, is indicative of racism and is not me yelling about affirmative action or something
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Aug 25, 2016 20:37
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They could have just made J'onn's human form black. Clearly I am kidding calm the gently caress down
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Aug 25, 2016 20:39
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It's really dumb to me that Cyborg doesn't get a shot at the Justice League until after a reboot removes all the time he spent with the Teen Titans when you could say he's grown up, he's graduating to the big leagues of superheroes. Instead he is a founding member of the League and just goes from zero to icon in an instant. In the old universe the JLA was full of young heroes who grew into a larger role in the DC universe but with Cyborg they waited until all that's wiped clean, removing all the history and relationships that made anyone care about him in the first place.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:40
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WickedHate posted:That's my point, there are technically other black people in the DC universe but their all so obscure that after John Stewart the most popular is someone from a different popular team and who's Batman's sidekick's contemporary. His promotion to Justice League founder was completely inexplicable except for the fact that he's black and DC needed their quota filled. I honestly don't think that John Stewart is because of racism. It's because of nostalgia. Geoff Johns has a hard-on for Hal Jordan and has demonstrated that hard-on eclipses everything else. It isn't about John Stewart being black but him not being Hal Jordan basically. The fact that they can't actually come up with anything better than Cyborg however is demonstrable proof they, uh, kinda need to diversify or get a loving writer who cares about Cyborg. Like seriously. Get someone a defining Cyborg run or something.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:50
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ImpAtom posted:I honestly don't think that John Stewart is because of racism. It's because of nostalgia. Geoff Johns has a hard-on for Hal Jordan and has demonstrated that hard-on eclipses everything else. It isn't about John Stewart being black but him not being Hal Jordan basically. Well, putting the spotlight back on Hal happens to sideline the other human lanterns who are four out of five not white, and if that can be called innocent just because it's not intentionally racist is arguable, but either way it's rooted in the classic JLA being all white guys+Wonder Woman.
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Aug 25, 2016 20:58
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Why am I the only one that likes cyborg and thinks he's cool as is?
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Aug 25, 2016 20:58
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Anyone read The Six-Pack and Dogwelder thing? It was, to use the vernacular, proper loving good. And most definitely the best comic featuring John Constantine to come out this week. Genuinely loved Starfire. Really don't like the new Hellblazer, sorry "The Hellblazer" comic. According to Moritat, us Brits live in actual Hobbit-holes.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:04
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WickedHate posted:Well, putting the spotlight back on Hal happens to sideline the other human lanterns who are four out of five not white, and if that can be called innocent just because it's not intentionally racist is arguable, but either way it's rooted in the classic JLA being all white guys+Wonder Woman. Hal is the only white green lantern. 
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Aug 25, 2016 21:05
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greatn posted:Why am I the only one that likes cyborg and thinks he's cool as is? Because Cyborg has literally never had a well-defining run or even a story that is about him anything but tangentially. There's no "go read the Grant Morrison Cyborg run" or "It's an Elseworld but Cyborg: My Soul Is Metal is fantastic" or whatever. He's the Also There guy because they refuse to get a good writer who cares about him. Mr Hootington posted:Hal is the only white green lantern. You know something I don't about Guy Gardner.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:20
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Shameless posted:Anyone read The Six-Pack and Dogwelder thing? It was, to use the vernacular, proper loving good. And most definitely the best comic featuring John Constantine to come out this week. Genuinely loved Starfire. I got a kick out of imagining Starfire's lines in Hynden Walch's voice.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:20
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Mr. Terrific should have been a founder but they probably didn't want someone who could upstage Batman.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:24
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ImpAtom posted:Because Cyborg has literally never had a well-defining run or even a story that is about him anything but tangentially. There's no "go read the Grant Morrison Cyborg run" or "It's an Elseworld but Cyborg: My Soul Is Metal is fantastic" or whatever. He's the Also There guy because they refuse to get a good writer who cares about him. I watched the Justice League War and Flashpoint movies on Netflix which i thought were terrible but he was the best thing in both of them. I think the only thing to improve would be to make him a bit more light-hearted and with some swagger, about halfway between where he's at in the comics and where he's at in the cartoon. Then it's like "Hello here is Cam Newton and also Mega Man"
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Aug 25, 2016 21:34
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greatn posted:I watched the Justice League War and Flashpoint movies on Netflix which i thought were terrible but he was the best thing in both of them. I would rather they just include Mega Man in the Justice League.
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Aug 25, 2016 21:41
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redbackground posted:I would rather they just include Mega Man in the Justice League. Too bad he's in the Archie comics universe
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Aug 25, 2016 21:53
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Madkal posted:Mr. Terrific should have been a founder but they probably didn't want someone who could upstage Batman. Like DC would ever let that happen. 
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Aug 25, 2016 22:09
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Mr. Terrific tried to upstage Batman once. Batman warned him if he ever tried that again he would upstage Mr Terrific without even being in the same scene as him. Sure enough, Mr. Terrific pulls his crap again, wears a V neck outfit really showing off his chest hair, the audience ignoring Batman in an interrogation scene. Later in the play Batman walks into a room, takes a drinking glass, and puts it halfway off the table and leaves. Mr Terrific walks in to have his scene, a pivotal scene in his arc, mind you, and he's rocking major moose knuckle to really grab your attention, but the audience is ignoring it all. They are rapt with attention for that glass. Is it going to fall? And Mr Terrific can't acknowledge it. And that's why no one fucks with Batman.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:22
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WickedHate posted:The rest of what he's saying is dumb bullshit, but the Cyborg thing is somewhat accurate-I'd say it's a result of racism more than anything, though. Gotta have one token black guy but also keep Hal the headlining Lantern? Sure, Cyborg I guess. It speaks to DC's lack of representation that he was the most viable candidate. Not really. Grant Morrison and Dwayne McDuffie already proved that you can have a diverse Justice League without needing loving cyborg.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:23
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It's been five years. Please get over Cyborg.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:43
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Just mock the guy and move on. When you engage in point/counterpoint with ideas like "it's bad to intentionally diversify superhero fiction, especially if a c-lister ~*gets disrespected~* for it", you invite that the idea onto the continuum of reasonable discourse. It clearly doesn't belong there. When rhetoric like that meets instead with appropriate derision, you can shame them out of normative discourse—which improves not only the discourse, but incrementally progresses culture. It's the Racist Tree principle.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:53
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p.s. backward dracula is a turd and his ideas are fart-thoughts from a mind of poop
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Aug 25, 2016 22:54
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Please don't poopshame
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Aug 25, 2016 22:55
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Squizzle posted:Just mock the guy and move on. When you engage in point/counterpoint with ideas like "it's bad to intentionally diversify superhero fiction, especially if a c-lister ~*gets disrespected~* for it", you invite that the idea onto the continuum of reasonable discourse. It clearly doesn't belong there. I never said that and I gave several examples (Batwoman, Steel, Ms.Marvel, etc.) where diversity was done right. So stop being an obtuse loving dufus.
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Aug 25, 2016 22:59
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Alucard Nacerima is actually Annoying Shitface backwards
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Aug 25, 2016 22:59
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ImpAtom posted:You know something I don't about Guy Gardner. Yes he is part Vuldarian or Irish. Whichever works. (the smug seamus smilie is gone)
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Aug 25, 2016 23:28
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For the life of me I don't understand why didn't just use Steel in Cyborg's place. He's a good, defined, strong character with a lot of recognizable history; there would be some blather about how he's a Superman legacy fill-in, but it can't possibly outweigh the negatives of a completely unremarkable Cyborg presence for five years. Or, better yet, use Natasha Irons. In a way she has even less history than Cyborg, but she's got way more personality and identity. See, that's the thing about DC. There's so much potential in their well of characters and history, but they'll just play it the most generic, uninspired way and drag their feet and soon the competition beats them in the race that they should've been leading all along. Hello, Riri Williams; goodbye, any chance Natasha had at carving out a piece of that pie.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:32
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Maybe because I read wolfman's teen titans, but cyborg is a way more legit hero to me than steel is. I thought he was fine in the New 52 jla.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:43
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Is anyone else on the verge of dropping Wacky Raceland like me? Because I feel like the idea of "Mad Max meets Wacky Races" is super played out (Which is weird, because it shouldn't be, and the cars talking actually adds a lot of character and I even sorta liked the weird if very hamfisted debate about theology as they were racing to open the issue) and I'm already kind of unbelievably bored with the similarly tragic backstories. Also it has a "Character's name is Dick so we're gonna make a bunch of jokes where someone's about to say something lewd or swear with the word 'dick' in it in some way but instead what happens is they're cut off by shouting Dick's name" puns. I hate those. Also, for something as weirdly specific as what I just wrote "Character's name is Dick so we're gonna make a bunch of jokes where someone's about to say something lewd or swear with the word 'dick' in it in some way but instead what happens is they're cut off by shouting Dick's name" is a pretty common comics joke. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 23:44
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BrianWilly posted:For the life of me I don't understand why didn't just use Steel in Cyborg's place. He's a good, defined, strong character with a lot of recognizable history; there would be some blather about how he's a Superman legacy fill-in, but it can't possibly outweigh the negatives of a completely unremarkable Cyborg presence for five years. I agree with you 100%. I think even Vixen, Black Lightning, or a milestone character would have been better choices than loving Cyborg or better yet how about a BRAND NEW black character. They could have also just had Martian Manhunter use a black secret identity (which I think he did in the cartoon and some of the comics) it's not like there was some huge outcry to make the Justice League more diverse. They could have done it over time.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:52
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Are John, Guy or Kyle in any of the new GL books in a significant way?
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Aug 25, 2016 23:55
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I don't understand why Cyborg is apparently such a terrible choice.fadam posted:Are John, Guy or Kyle in any of the new GL books in a significant way? Guy and John are in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps, which is a book I've enjoyed quite a bit thus far. Definitely way better than Green Lanterns.
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Aug 25, 2016 23:57
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Alucard Nacirema posted:I agree with you 100%. I think even Vixen, Black Lightning, or a milestone character would have been better choices than loving Cyborg or better yet how about a BRAND NEW black character. They could have also just had Martian Manhunter use a black secret identity (which I think he did in the cartoon and some of the comics) it's not like there was some huge outcry to make the Justice League more diverse. They could have done it over time. But the issue was that they were rebooting and needed a black founder for the League, so they felt like they had to go with their most popular (non-Green Lantern) black character instead of a lesser known or brand new one. Basically, the New 52 was a terrible idea.
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Aug 26, 2016 00:00
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