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Sickening posted:Because the difference in power level from a t1 deck to a t2 deck isn't as big as the standard format. You can also build multiple decks and be able to play those multiple decks card for card more than 3 months. I actually agree with you but I'm just saying Modern isn't really set up for casual/new players if you want to play one of the known good decks. Sure you can play T3/T4 brews but I don't think someone is going to pay $70.00 to enter a GP to do so I just think WoTC could do more to make the format more open to new players and just support it better overall but I don't think they'll do so.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:29
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mcmagic posted:People loving LOVE Modern for some reason. I have no clue why... The same "I get to use all my cards!" appeal as Legacy except for nonancient farts and without the need for alpha duals and without the specter of force of will and daze.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:30
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80s James Hetfield posted:I actually agree with you but I'm just saying Modern isn't really set up for casual/new players if you want to play one of the known good decks. Sure you can play T3/T4 brews but I don't think someone is going to pay $70.00 to enter a GP to do so No matter what they do people would bitch and complain. They have aggressively reprinted modern cards. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The same "I get to use all my cards!" appeal as Legacy except for nonancient farts and without the need for alpha duals and without the specter of force of will and daze. Sure but games of modern just aren't as good as games of Legacy or Standard for that matter.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:31
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If you need a good laugh about modern, read Todd Andersons latest PREMIUM article. I mostly agree with his premise but his solution is "unban the cards I like, ban the cards I don't like."
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Aug 26, 2016 15:36
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Looking at the ban list for unbans I don't think sfm would make a big difference at all, even jtms is probably too slow right now though I don't expect either to ever be unbanned.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:38
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ShaneB posted:Because it's typically pretty fast to play, not a grindfest, plays powerful cards, has a huge player base, has a ton of different viable decks to fit playstyles, rewards knowing the meta, and also can reward good technical play. With the only downsides (to me) being cost of entry and increased variance, what's not to love? I would argue these points. How does a format where you can play an entire GP without repeating decks or playing against any of the most popular/best decks reward knowing the meta? It rewards getting lucky with pairings maybe. Basically what I'm saying is unban Twin. The format was so much better when it was legal. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The same "I get to use all my cards!" appeal as Legacy except for nonancient farts and without the need for alpha duals and without the specter of force of will and daze. So legacy except you don't actually have the ability to stop the degenerate stuff that people are trying to do. Edit: Also this: Snacksmaniac posted:If you need a good laugh about modern, read Todd Andersons latest PREMIUM article. I mostly agree with his premise but his solution is "unban the cards I like, ban the cards I don't like." Yeah I'm not entirely sure about his ban/unban list but the rest of the article is spot on.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:39
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Molybdenum posted:Looking at the ban list for unbans I don't think sfm would make a big difference at all, even jtms is probably too slow right now though I don't expect either to ever be unbanned. Stoneforge would make any other midrange deck unplayable if it didn't play Stoneforge.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:40
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80s James Hetfield posted:I actually agree with you but I'm just saying Modern isn't really set up for casual/new players if you want to play one of the known good decks. Sure you can play T3/T4 brews but I don't think someone is going to pay $70.00 to enter a GP to do so In my area at least, modern is the more popular FNM format and it is it full of casual players. Yes t1 decks are harder to attain then standard t1 decks, but that is basically 300$ for the short term verses 700$ for the long term. And yeah, wotc could do a ton better by supporting the format while also making money. A good friend of mine recently had a birthday. He has been borrowing decks for FNM so me and a few friends pitched in to get him https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/394701 . He is an old school player who use to cast a lot of stone rain back in the day. So far he is 2/2 and 3/1 with the deck. Modern is the best format. mcmagic posted:Stoneforge would make any other midrange deck unplayable if it didn't play Stoneforge. K-command laughs at your silly stoneforge. Sickening fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 15:40
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Molybdenum posted:Looking at the ban list for unbans I don't think sfm would make a big difference at all, even jtms is probably too slow right now though I don't expect either to ever be unbanned. JTMS would have been okay to unban at least a year ago and has been probably fine to play for a long time but people will start making GBS threads their pants and screaming about blue cards, so no matter what happens it will never be legal in any future format. Ever.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:41
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For me at least, the big appeal of Modern is definitely being able to keep using the same cards. I'm lucky if I can make more than one local event a month, if I dropped a couple hundred on a Standard deck and played at that rate it just wouldn't be worth the time and cost in any sense. At that point I'd probably get more fun for my money with an MMO sub of some sort. There's also the appeal of having more cards available and a having a larger tool set for building decks, there's a lot of creative stuff in the format. Fingers McLongDong posted:Wizards just needs to work harder at keeping up with what players want. They could probably make a lot of money printing sets like modern masters to demand instead of limited runs, like with Conspiracy. People WANT modern, the event numbers show it. To their credit I think this is easier said than done due to how far out they have to plan some of these sets. With multi-year development cycles it's tough to anticipate which cards people are clamoring to reprint. Printing a Modern power-card also brings a risk of warping Standard (the moneymaker for Wizards) around that card; there was that rumored LotV reprint in M15 that was supposedly scrapped due to how nuts the MonoB decks of that Standard would have been.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:41
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Snacksmaniac posted:If you need a good laugh about modern, read Todd Andersons latest PREMIUM article. I mostly agree with his premise but his solution is "unban the cards I like, ban the cards I don't like." Could you post some of the highlights?
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Aug 26, 2016 15:43
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Not "would" have been, those stupid mono black devotion decks were miserable. it's sort of funny that gray merchant ended up being such a huge nuisance in standard and pauper.Madmarker posted:Could you post some of the highlights? "hi im todd anderson and i made my girlfriend miserable and rich hagon chronicled it"
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Aug 26, 2016 15:43
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Sickening posted:In my area at least, modern is the more popular FNM format and it is it full of casual players. Yes t1 decks are harder to attain then standard t1 decks, but that is basically 300$ for the short term verses 700$ for the long term. And yeah, wotc could do a ton better by supporting the format while also making money. Remember how K Command was supposed to make Affinity unplayable?
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Aug 26, 2016 15:46
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rabidsquid posted:Not "would" have been, those stupid mono black devotion decks were miserable. it's sort of funny that gray merchant ended up being such a huge nuisance in standard and pauper. I didn't know about him making his girlfriend miserable, anything in particular. I did know about him being a smug gremlin, but I spend very little time interacting with him so 
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Aug 26, 2016 15:46
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i don't remember where it was but i remember a lot of dragging of him on my twitter feed back around when it came out. honestly it might have even just been todd posting about it in his own articles.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:47
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mcmagic posted:Remember how K Command was supposed to make Affinity unplayable? It definitely didn't make it more playable, that is for sure. Affinity has also been a tumbleweed until recently so....
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Aug 26, 2016 15:47
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C-Euro posted:
Yeah I mean more towards supplemental products. There's cards that have been format staples for years, they could stop being so shy about reprinting them and use the yearly commander products or duel decks to reprint them. Start throwing Snapcasters in blue decks every year, goyfs in green decks, bobs in black decks, etc. Instead we routinely get 1 good chase card people go after while it's high like TNN or containment priest.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:49
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mcmagic posted:Stoneforge would make any other midrange deck unplayable if it didn't play Stoneforge. A. No it wouldn't this is still a really dumb thing to say. In a world with Thoughtseize and Kolaghan's Command, Stoneforge is probably fine. It also can't get Jitte which is the main reason it's so good in legacy. B. Even if it did kill Jund (which I'm almost 100% positive is impossible short of banning half a dozen cards) that's one deck we would lose and it would potentially make a non-BGx midrange deck viable. C. It would help nerf the aggro decks that are running wild all over the format. D. It would maybe make Death and Taxes playable? Probably not but you never know. We might have to ban Cranial Plating if Stoneforge got unbanned though. mcmagic posted:Remember how K Command was supposed to make Affinity unplayable? No. Because it's a 3 mana spell.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:49
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JtMS + Ancestral Vision is probably too good. You can mitigate the downside of drawing Visions late by brainstorming it away.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:50
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Game 1 against Dredge: Turn 1 Faithless looting, Turn 2 Tormenting voice, suddenly four Prized Amalgams appear on the battlefield. My turn 2 Scavenging Ooze just wasn't good enough... (I won games 2 and 3 with Yixlid Jailer and Leyline of the Void.)
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Aug 26, 2016 15:55
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ThePeavstenator posted:JtMS + Ancestral Vision is probably too good. You can mitigate the downside of drawing Visions late by brainstorming it away. On turn 4 after half of the decks in the format have already killed you, or will kill you because you tapped out on turn 4 in modern you big dummy. Also uh, that's exactly what Nahiri does, and she's much better at doing it because it means you're not adding dead cards back into your deck to draw later. She also kills much faster than Jace with the extra upside of actually killing creatures that can threaten her.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:56
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If you can tap out for and zero your JTMS on turn 4 to get rid of an Ancestral Visions you were winning that game really hard anyway. edit: oh, you did say late. If you have an active JTMS and are in control enough to be using an activation to toss an Ancestral Visions you were winning really hard anyway.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:56
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suicidesteve posted:On turn 4 after half of the decks in the format have already killed you, or will kill you because you tapped out on turn 4 in modern you big dummy. I would hope a deck that plays a turn 4 jace would have things to do on turns 1-3.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:58
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Yeah I mean more towards supplemental products. There's cards that have been format staples for years, they could stop being so shy about reprinting them and use the yearly commander products or duel decks to reprint them. Start throwing Snapcasters in blue decks every year, goyfs in green decks, bobs in black decks, etc. Instead we routinely get 1 good chase card people go after while it's high like TNN or containment priest. They don't like doing this because all the modern/legacy players snap them up and then it's hard for actual edh players to get their hands on them. They already have a better solution with the masters sets, but they refuse to make those not lovely for whatever reason.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:59
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suicidesteve posted:A. No it wouldn't this is still a really dumb thing to say. In a world with Thoughtseize and Kolaghan's Command, Stoneforge is probably fine. It also can't get Jitte which is the main reason it's so good in legacy. suicidesteve posted:B. Even if it did kill Jund (which I'm almost 100% positive is impossible short of banning half a dozen cards) that's one deck we would lose and it would potentially make a non-BGx midrange deck viable. Agreed again, Jund's biggest strength is that it is really just the best cards in three colors smashed together. Unless they banned Lilli, Bob, Goyf, Thoughtseize, IOK and Bolt, some version of the deck will probably stick around. suicidesteve posted:C. It would help nerf the aggro decks that are running wild all over the format. suicidesteve posted:D. It would maybe make Death and Taxes playable? Probably not but you never know. Hatebears and Eldrazi and Taxes are both relatively successful tier 1.5 strats. I wouldn't say it is a great deck, but getting to run the arbiter + path combo against aggro decks and the arbiter + ghost quarter combo against midrange is very nice. Add in Thalia and New Thalia, which have both been quite effective, and some great sideboard options the deck see's some play as is. Add in the stoneforge package and the deck should be pretty good. Honeslty, without Jitte, I really don't worry about stoneforge, I think it would shake up the meta, but not in a negative way. SO in short, I agree, but I don't know how much of a nerf it would give to the hyper aggro decks. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 16:00
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Haha, this looks janky and cool. I might give this a shot after UW Turbofog this week
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Aug 26, 2016 16:00
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Sickening posted:I would hope a deck that plays a turn 4 jace would have things to do on turns 1-3. those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:01
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Yeah I mean more towards supplemental products. There's cards that have been format staples for years, they could stop being so shy about reprinting them and use the yearly commander products or duel decks to reprint them. Start throwing Snapcasters in blue decks every year, goyfs in green decks, bobs in black decks, etc. Instead we routinely get 1 good chase card people go after while it's high like TNN or containment priest. Those are probably on similar dev cycles but I agree with the idea. Maybe not the same huge money card(s) each time but give each deck at least one reprint that people care about.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:10
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Man I've opened 6 packs of Conspiracy now (I was hoping to play at the store tonight but had to leave) and the best thing I've gotten is a Serum Visions. Give me that Show and Tell you loving box
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Aug 26, 2016 16:25
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I'm going to show up to the LGS and there will be like 2 other people there. Sigh. I can't even try this out online like I've been doing for EMN.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:28
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suicidesteve posted:I would argue these points. How does a format where you can play an entire GP without repeating decks or playing against any of the most popular/best decks reward knowing the meta? It rewards getting lucky with pairings maybe. I don't understand how having to build literally every deck around the question "but what about twin??" made it a better format. And you are potentially correct about the meta stuff. If you know your local meta you certainly can try to shore up those matchups. But a meta is a meta, even when it's wide. No matter what, I'd rather there be 10 decks to have to think about than 3, which is what standard has seemed like since BFZ was released and Theros block and M15 rotated out.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:33
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The next Modern ban will be Become Immense.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:39
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Dredge Chat: Just had it confirmed that you cannot flashback a conflagrate to kill a Yixlid Jailer. Has to be from the hand.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:40
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mehall posted:Dredge Chat: How good graveyard hate is Yixlid Jailer? This seems pretty iffy to me. I am also confused how dredge can sleeve up less than 4 enchantment/artifact removal in their sideboard.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:43
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mcmagic posted:The next Modern ban will be Become Immense. I would 100% support that.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:44
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mcmagic posted:The next Modern ban will be Become Immense. Even as someone who enjoys playing infect, I won't really mind it. It's the card that I hate drawing more than 1 of more than anything, and just feels like something I am required to run. Freeing up those slots would be fun.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:48
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Sickening posted:How good graveyard hate is Yixlid Jailer? This seems pretty iffy to me. It's pretty solid. It is a one-toughness creature, which is a hefty downside (dies to Darkblast, Golgari Charm, Conflagrate for 3...), but the Dredge deck literally can't do anything until they draw something to remove it. I would play it as a sideboard 1-of in any deck that can tutor for it. Extra copies, or if you're playing a deck without Chord, are not particularly exciting though.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:49
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Sickening posted:How good graveyard hate is Yixlid Jailer? This seems pretty iffy to me. I am also confused how dredge can sleeve up less than 4 enchantment/artifact removal in their sideboard. It's petty good; but not perfect. Any removal can hit it BUT as referenced, it has to be from hand.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:50
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mcmagic posted:The next Modern ban will be Become Immense. That seems pretty fair, the deck was still good before and I'd still play it after such a ban.
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Aug 26, 2016 16:54
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Cactrot posted:That seems pretty fair, the deck was still good before and I'd still play it after such a ban. Death's Shadow is nerfed without it, too.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:01
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