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Ytlaya posted:but I don't know if it's possible to infer given just the end result and starting number. I don't think you understand, Izuru is
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Aug 26, 2016 02:44
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Color Printer posted:THE SHOCKING TRUTH BEHIND SHSL ANALYTIC POWERS REVEALED
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Aug 26, 2016 02:55
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Ytlaya posted:^^^ Well, to be fair I don't think anyone can truly be blamed for whatever they do post-Junko manipulation. If it was really due to some personal failing, you wouldn't see the entire class commit the crimes (or at least it would be highly improbable that all of them just randomly have a great potential for evil). RE: RNG talk: having access to inputs with their respective outputs goes a long way with figuring out how an Algorithm works. Cracking the RNG is completely doable over a long enough period of time... and it's probably super easy when you have TALENT.
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Aug 26, 2016 02:58
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Belgian Waffle posted:Yes, they can be blamed for their crimes and they should be. AFAIK, we don't absolve someone of mass-murder because they used to not be a mass-murderer. Eh, when you have a whole group of people who all suddenly go crazy, you have to question if maybe there's some cause aside from their own moral failings. I mean, in reality there isn't really any way to convince a class to go insane and murder their family and friends, but this is an anime where such a method obviously exists (either that or the DR2 class were all dormant sociopaths through some great cosmic coincidence). The kind of obvious counter example to what I'm saying is something like "Germans were still to blame during WW2 even though they were also a group of people who committed or allowed a bunch of atrocities", but I think the difference is that the DR2 cast ends up doing a bunch of stuff that is just flat out insane, as opposed to merely evil. Basically it would be like blaming someone with a severe mental illness for the crimes they commit under the influence of said mental illness. edit: Oh, I had another idea for what Izuru could do! He could play himself in chess! Sure, maybe he could beat everyone else in the world, but he can't be better than himself! Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 03:11
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I don't think Mitarai's anime will be used for the DR2 characters. I think it will be used for the reserve students, in Zero it's shown that the students started to watch the first killing game like non-stop in a secret room in the reserve building if I'm remembering right so I think Junko used Mitarai's subliminal message thing that he talked about in this episode in the killing game footage to control the reserve students, it was also said in DR2 that every single one commited suicide so it makes sense that they were brainwashed to do that.
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Aug 26, 2016 03:39
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Ytlaya posted:Basically it would be like blaming someone with a severe mental illness for the crimes they commit under the influence of said mental illness. With that said, I would absolutely agree with you if Naegi's plan in DR2 had actually worked as he'd intended it to. Arguably, the remnants of despair would be dead at that point.
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Aug 26, 2016 03:40
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Okay where is the 78th class' happy school year going to fit into all this? I like the small callback to DR1 at the end though, with the Reserve Course students basically finding out what happened in a Closing Argument.
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Aug 26, 2016 04:10
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Hope people don't mind if I ramble a bit about stuff I've noticed. The attacker has killed 3 people so far, Izayoi is discounted for reasons I'll go over. Each murder by the attacker so far has had three things in common. First, the knife wound to the chest. Second, they've all been suspended or crucified. Third, the body sweeps all emphasize a clue each time. Oddly enough Tengan's death emulates two of those criteria. It's possible that each person killed is also strongly connected to Munakata. In Chisa's case the clue is the tear marks, which means she was awake when she was killed. A minor oddity that I'm not sure of is that the table Chisa's chandelier falls on is already damaged. Was the fall meant to cover that up? In Gozu's case the clue was that the attacker gouged out the eyes of his mask. I'm not sure what that could mean aside from a personal grudge involving Gozu seeing something he should not have. We don't get to see his face but the lack of blood on the cloth that covers it means only the mask was damaged. In Seiko's case the clue was the leaking water from her corpse being smashed into the wall, which seems to indicate that they have been moved to an underground facility and that whoever did it is freakishly strong. In Izayoi's case several problems arise. Firstly, his stab wound has hardly any blood. Second, he wasn't staged as the other three deaths were. Next, when the camera zooms into his face there is a red blotch under his left eye, consistent with Bandai's death. Finally, Kirigiri finds a powder on his corpse when examining his body, that isn't visible when the camera sweeps entirely across it. That powder must be make-up covering up the significant discoloration that occurs when the poison takes effect. Izayoi's forbidden action was likely eating or eating sweets, which makes Ruruka the most likely culprit. She had both the means and the most opportunities to figure out his forbidden action. The why is sketchy, but she did try to get Seiko to kill Munakata and Izayoi did discover the Monokuma room that she's trying to hide from people. Maybe she's a remnant of despair, but not the attacker? Yukizome was an accomplice to the mastermind, unaware of the complete plans, betrayed and then killed. If she was a remnant of despair I doubt she'd have been crying as she was killed. The fact that she was crying makes it seem likely that she was betrayed by someone she was close to so either Sakakura, Munakata or one of her students. The survivor count is off. We have either 1 or 2 hidden people depending on Hagakure's and Gekkogahara's status on the counter. It seems that everyone is still in the complex but in an underground bunker. Hagakure's presence means that no one has gone in or out, and the fact that missiles fired at him opened the secret passage means the scenes are happening simultaneously. At the same time Hagakure only saw the one explosion but the area seems to have taken massive damage and significant remodeling in a short amount of time. That seems to confirm that this whole area was set up before hand as part of Tengan's second mysterious project. LostRook fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 05:44
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Ytlaya posted:edit: Actually, the whole premise that Izuru finds despair interesting because it's unpredictable or whatever seems like it would actually be the opposite of reality. People who are experiencing emotions like fear or despair are more predictable, not less. There are a million things more difficult to predict than the way someone might react to despair. This is probably true. Once the panic sets in, people tend to move on instinct and any sort of finesse goes out the window for anything that extends self preservation. If a person's habits, background and personality are known, it's presumably easier to predict their actions. The idea that people in a panic act more unpredictably is more likely to be true with the assumption that people tend to act "rationally" and thus "predictably" when calm with a secondary assumption that a rational action is completely objective
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Aug 26, 2016 06:49
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I just realized the thing with Mitarai's anime kinda resembles the situation outlined by Munakata about naive hope that can move the masses being used to create despair and poo poo.
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Aug 26, 2016 07:52
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orenronen posted:Yeah, well, that was all established by Zero before. I never really got why people thought Kamukura killed anyone in this specific incident himself. Presumably that's because a lot of people have played DR2 but not read DR0, since DR0 hasn't been localized. If I remember right the last chapter of DR2 just says Kamukura was responsible for the killing without elaborating.
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Aug 26, 2016 14:17
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All of the people who were killed by the attacker were also the people who most immediately helped Makoto before dying. Chisa reassured him that he did the right thing, Gozu saved him from being chased, and Seiko smacked Juzo away. I wonder if Kyouko would have died if no one interacted with Makoto after she helped him escape that office room. Kyte posted:I just realized the thing with Mitarai's anime kinda resembles the situation outlined by Munakata about naive hope that can move the masses being used to create despair and poo poo. It's nice seeing all the little bits of foreshadowing get nodded back to.
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Aug 26, 2016 15:19
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I have a feeling that there's some kind of wild goose chase going on in FF There's: Mastermind Remnant of Despair Attacker (Switches theory ignored) I'm starting to wonder if the bottom two even exist, like if a RoD is actually there if it's not just Mitarai. If the attacker switches as well I kinda had the thought I mentioned earlier of "What if the attackers rule changed to "If you don't kill someone, I'll kill EVERYONE else but you." Going off Hagakure's lovely prediction maybe most of the FF have a reason to care about the others and that's why they keep killing. Like this has almost no chance of being the case but going back to my silly Aoi or Izayoi theories it would give them motivation. Aoi doesn't want to get Naegi/Kirigiri anyone else killed. Yoi doesn't want Ruruka to die etc. It's fun to come up with estimates  My guesses for the Mastermind in future though are: -Nagito (Simply based off his desire to see Hope vs Hope and ramblings of "which hope is stronger" etc) -AI Junko 2 (I think AI Junko 2 is the person in the movie theater who narrates things) -Chiaki and Chisa (I don't really think either is the master mind, Chiaki doesn't really add much to the plot that I can see from being the mastermind other then pointless shock value and I'm pretty sure Chisa's dead-dead but who knows.) Actually wait a loving second. In Killer Killer there's a SHSL makeup artist who makes dead body copies of people (faked Naegi's death for example) What if everyone's actually alive and they're just using fake bodies and Bandai is just a really good actor 
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Aug 26, 2016 15:52
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In-depth review of this episode: WELP.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:12
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orenronen posted:Kirigiri has been examining a lot of bodies and always has that "I found something important that I'm not going to tell anyone just yet" vibe about her afterwards. There's something fishy going on with Chisa's death, whatever it turns out to be. LostRook posted:Izayoi's forbidden action was likely eating or eating sweets, which makes Ruruka the most likely culprit. She had both the means and the most opportunities to figure out his forbidden action. The why is sketchy, but she did try to get Seiko to kill Munakata and Izayoi did discover the Monokuma room that she's trying to hide from people. Maybe she's a remnant of despair, but not the attacker? As for her proposal to Seiko - she probably just believes the mastermind only wants Munakata to die, and Seiko is inhumanely strong on her drugs. She basically only cares about herself, maybe her boyfriend, and everyone else be damned. lotus circle fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 04:38
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lotus circle posted:I'm pretty sure Ruruka is just a massive rear end in a top hat. She has this big complex over her talent being the only thing she's good at, so if someone snubs her treats then she thinks they're not her friends. Seiko literally couldn't eat those treats due to medical reasons, but Ruruka still held it against her like she did it on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if she just forced the snack into Izayoi's mouth in a fit and boom, the poison goes off. Can you just imagine Ruruka's face when Izayoi tells her that he'll die if he eats her candy after all the crap that happened with Seiko? I really hope the next episode of Future is about that, because it would just be magical. 
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Aug 27, 2016 06:01
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mitari will be chef boyardee and his anime will be dilbertBaal posted:The villain that facilitates the situation is actually super important and your trying to divorce them from that does not change that they are the sole reason everything has happened. you know how in pokemon giovani wants to kidnap pikachu but it's really jessie and jams that try to take him from ash? it's like that. Ytlaya posted:Eh, while I agree with respect to the first two games, it's kinda true for Zero Time Dilemma. Is that the new one? I lost track of what is called which. Lord_Magmar posted:I think the logic behind Junko is she targets people she thinks will listen to her, which ends up being the entire upper class as far as we know and the 5 warriors of hope. Everything else is because she picks good targets, like Monaca gives her the facilities to produce a bunch of Monokumas, and Kuzuryu and Sonia give her resources and man power, everyone else just insures she has leaders and a few pretty useful talents for actually spreading her message. The thing is that all makes sense until she's hucking bombs around and acting CCCRAAZY all the time. At that point either she's got some kind of super powers or everyone else is really, really, really really dumb. FPzero posted:Bit of a slow episode but I was surprised that the Monaca arc was over that suddenly. It feels like they're spending a lot of time on this mid-show plot development. I hope they don't have to rush a conclusion in only 5 episodes... Since Monaca's not the villain I think it's a safe bet to assume that they'll set up the villain and not actually resolve it. Wyvernil posted:I've been thinking that Nagito could be the mastermind, as well. If any of the DR2 kids were going to wake up from their comas, it would have to be the one with the insane deus-ex-machina levels of luck. Not to say it couldn't happen for that reason but I could've sworn that Nagito was basically dead before DR2 even started due to brain cancer. Hobgoblin2099 posted:The SHSL Pikachu died because of this blunder. I look forward to 16 more spinoff novel series for these characters. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 07:39
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lotus circle posted:Actually this makes me wonder if Kirigiri's forbidden action is that she isn't allowed to tell anyone about any detective findings she makes. So she might learn something important, but if she reports on it then she'll be killed. Could also be that she's required to examine at least one corpse before the end of the awake period, unless none exists (meaning the game is over.) Whoever the mastermind is, it's logical that they would want to restrict how much she can do with her talent. Nothing forbids her from examining bodies, but if she can't report her findings then it's completely meaningless. It would be kinda interesting if Kirigiri died but left clues so that Naegi could piece together the mystery. Kinda like the very first case of DR1.
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Aug 27, 2016 10:30
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I hope Byakuya tells Naegi to tell them at some point. I don't even care which. Also this has been bothering me for a while, but why wasn't Byakuya at the hearing? He was complicit in the events of DR2. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 11:07
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they were probably perfectly cool with togami, what with how authoritarian he is. it is pretty clear now that munakata has wanted an excuse to kill naegi for a while.
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Aug 27, 2016 11:49
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I hope Byakuya tells Naegi to tell them at some point. I don't even care which. Naegi was the only person they wanted to trial (and Kirigiri by extension since she's his boss), since he was the one that made the decision to put them through the Neo World Program. Kirigiri and Togami helped, but they would probably have been cool with having to kill off the Remnants.
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Aug 27, 2016 12:22
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e: wait poo poo nm
Yinlock fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 12:55
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Not gonna lie, I lost it at the shovel hammer. I think this episode makes clear the major issue I'm having with this series. It's trying to evoke emotions in me that it hasn't given me a reason to have. Like, this episode was probably intended to be disturbing, but it reached Elfin Lied levels of trying really hard. Or in Future Arc where a large portion of the cast are assholes and we don't see them for that long anyway, so I don't really give a poo poo if they die. The only thing this series really gets me to sympathize with is the feeling that the Future Foundation should burn to the ground. Butt Ghost fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 17:45
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I was watching Izuru during the killing game scene and I don't think he got what Junko was trying to say, or at least not in the way she wanted. Looks to me that the thing he's interested in is not despair but Junko, he wants to see just how far she goes more than he actually wants to help. Which might explain a whole bunch about his actions later on, he and Komaeda weren't real despairs they just followed Junko for their own ideals/desires. Komaeda of course to see his truly great hope, and Izuru because Junko is interesting to him, up until she dies at which point he loses any real interest in despair. I actually think he wants the Neo World to work, because then he'll have his emotions and personality back, he goes willingly because he wants it to work, he helps put Junko in because he still desires a challenge, and what better challenge then his old self fighting the ultimate despair. Which I think is his actual goal, with every talent under the sun he wants a challenge, after all if everything comes naturally then what's the point in even trying to do anything at all. Also yeah that entire scene was both quite disturbing but also very silly, it's actually somewhat like the executions, which always have a little bit of comedy. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 18:43
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Butt Ghost posted:The only thing this series really gets me to sympathize with is the feeling that the Future Foundation should burn to the ground. Future is probably the best Junko propaganda I've seen.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:13
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CrashScreen posted:Future is probably the best Junko propaganda I've seen. Future is Mitarai's anime and that's why we haven't actually seen any of it onscreen yet.
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Aug 28, 2016 04:48
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I'm looking forward to finding out how Despair arc Chisa watches herself die in a video being played of Future arc. Future arc is going to all be that anime Mitarai made. 
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Aug 28, 2016 20:45
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New episode is a lot of talking but I'm fine with that. Also found out some new codes and general info. It's good but boy did they save a lot of budget. I guess the rule being "Nobody is allowed to leave this building" would be enough to make Ruruka be the traitor huh. She killed the recruiter and unless they literally get the bracelet off her she isn't going to live to the end. Boy I'm hoping she doesn't live. Also RIP Togami?? The ending was super unclear as usual and I wonder if he could of got out in time.
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Aug 29, 2016 15:33
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I was really rooting for Ruruka to be the "rear end who learns important life lessons" but her actions today are just straight up unforgivable.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:48
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Also apparently Ruruka is even more unsympathetic then we thought she was. Appearntly her candies have a bit of a brainwashing effect and she was using them to control Izayoi. Or something like that
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Aug 29, 2016 21:33
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I expected that to be the result of Kyouko's findings and I expected Kizakura to die. I did not expect Ruruka to be so terrible that even Juzo had to jump ships. Well done, Kodaka. 
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Aug 29, 2016 22:54
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Axle_Stukov posted:I was really rooting for Ruruka to be the "rear end who learns important life lessons" but her actions today are just straight up unforgivable. That role will be be played by Sakakura MonsterEnvy posted:Also apparently Ruruka is even more unsympathetic then we thought she was. Appearntly her candies have a bit of a brainwashing effect and she was using them to control Izayoi. Or something like that I think that was a special candy that she used. Edit: I expect Togami to be okay because of course he would be. I'm fairly certain that everyone's in some sort of underground duplicate of the building and the Monokuma door probably doesn't actually go anywhere Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 23:35
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Lots of forbidden actions revealed in this episode, I like it. It's kinda worrying we still don't know what Gozu's was. Or Chisa's. I also like how Ruruka's code means she cannot live, hopefully, if it is exactly "No one can leave"
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Aug 30, 2016 00:07
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Also I am a turbo dork and am going to rewatch the first 7 future episodes to see if Kizakura has always had his left hand closed
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Aug 30, 2016 00:22
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voltcatfish posted:Also I am a turbo dork and am going to rewatch the first 7 future episodes to see if Kizakura has always had his left hand closed It's been in his pocket the entire time actually, it was already pointed out by the crazy theory people at other places. Probably so the animators didn't accidentally fuckup at some point. Also we're continuing the pattern of first death > example death > Second death > Double deaths third > Heroic sacrifice that's shown up in the other DR games, Kizakura might be the last death. Axle_Stukov fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 00:24
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I love that I can think up something semi-reasonable and have it destroyed because Dangan Ronpa is loving weird.
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Aug 30, 2016 00:56
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voltcatfish posted:Lots of forbidden actions revealed in this episode, I like it. Well presumably she could live once the "game" was over.
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Aug 30, 2016 01:54
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Can it even end if there's still a fail condition that could be triggered?
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Aug 30, 2016 02:34
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So is there a reason Funimation has twice now goofed on releasing the Future Arc episode of the week on time?
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Aug 30, 2016 02:43
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Xelkelvos posted:Edit: I expect Togami to be okay because of course he would be. I'm fairly certain that everyone's in some sort of underground duplicate of the building and the Monokuma door probably doesn't actually go anywhere One of the scenes in the opening does seem to hint at that. That makes it seem like it has to be someone close to Munakata because he was the one who oversaw construction. I'm coming full circle back to the ridiculous Yukizome is the killer theory from episode one.
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Aug 30, 2016 02:44
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