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steinrokkan posted:I don't think there's any country today that could actually support a plan like that, speaking from the point of view of basic economics. Mathematically it's possible but you have to adjust tax systems to account for the extra income. Greens had a suggestion where you'd get 500 UBI and everything on top of that is taxed at ~40%, effectively creating a income curve with less chance of situations where you'd earn more by staying at home. Of course this model breaks down when you tack all the other existing social benefits on top of it, but in theory an affordable system is possible.
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Aug 27, 2016 00:13
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Hob_Gadling posted:Mathematically it's possible but you have to adjust tax systems to account for the extra income. Greens had a suggestion where you'd get 500 UBI and everything on top of that is taxed at ~40%, effectively creating a income curve with less chance of situations where you'd earn more by staying at home. Of course this model breaks down when you tack all the other existing social benefits on top of it, but in theory an affordable system is possible. Yeah, the problem is that expanding this system to be truly universal would probably hurt the middle class with their tax deductions, so I can't see it getting voted in through a democratic process.
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Aug 27, 2016 00:20
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Honest Thief posted:Racism in Portugal is low level and not yet institutionalized, that's the next step for when we become a first world country. If Portugal does turn fascist, again, it's probably going to be geared towards muslims. racism is super institutionalized in portugal. we close down entire beaches and shopping malls if a black dude sneezes. remember the arrastao?
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Aug 27, 2016 00:48
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Mans posted:racism is super institutionalized in portugal. That whole thing was amazing,the panic the outrage the right wing parades and then the debunking.here is a short documentary about the affair with convinient english subtitles. https://youtu.be/9pfS50Ycguw Also i got to Call António capucho a loving piece of poo poo to his face a few weeks after it was great.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:15
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These are the most shared news articles on Le Monde, this morning Get me out of this loving country
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Aug 27, 2016 11:24
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Can't England or Germany annex us?
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Aug 27, 2016 11:43
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I just want one journalist, just one, to ask Manuel Valls "why do you hate our freedoms?". It won't happen and Valls would probably manage to give a non answer anyway, but one can dream. (Please take me with you) Kurtofan posted:Can't England or Germany annex us? And risk creating an unholy alliance of French right-wingers and English Tories? Are you quite mad? Kassad fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 11:47
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Kurtofan posted:Can't England or Germany annex us? The whole point of the EU is to keep this from happening again 
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Aug 27, 2016 12:30
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kustomkarkommando posted:The US secretary of the treasury openly accused the EC of disproportionately targeting American firms in a letter to Juncker in February While that is true, but is still comically missing the point.
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Aug 27, 2016 13:07
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Randler posted:While that is true, but is still comically missing the point. What is the point then?
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Aug 27, 2016 13:36
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Kurtofan posted:Can't England or Germany annex us?
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Aug 27, 2016 13:54
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everyone chill, it's just the summer hole right now. The news cycle turns retarded every summer due to the heat and lack of actual poo poo happening. Like, German media has been going apeshit for over a week now because the government recommended to store 10l of water for emergency cases instead of 9l or something. loving heat, making everyone crazy.
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Aug 27, 2016 14:04
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ChainsawCharlie posted:That whole thing was amazing,the panic the outrage the right wing parades and then the debunking.here is a short documentary about the affair with convinient english subtitles. a few months back a great documentary about gypsies living in Portugal and the hurdles they had to pass through was released and one of the things the documentary revealed was the habit of some store keepers buying frog statues and putting them on their storefronts to scare away gispsies. the end result of that film was an explosion in frog statue sales. go outside and look at store fronts, it's frogs everywhere 
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Aug 27, 2016 14:58
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What is with the European hated of gypsies?
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Aug 27, 2016 15:05
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Nitrousoxide posted:What is with the European hated of gypsies? Centuries of ingrained prejudices.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:12
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Nitrousoxide posted:What is with the European hated of gypsies?
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Aug 27, 2016 15:26
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Nitrousoxide posted:What is the point then? That the various different tax avoidance approaches the EU is taking a closer look at are designed for American companies, so it's not surprising that American companies are disproportionaly targetted during the investigations.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:29
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MiddleOne posted:Centuries of ingrained prejudices. But like why? Here in the USA we don't really have Romani. But we have Amish, and their communities are like tourist attractions. I mean I'm sure they get a bit of the other shoulder from some people, but people travel from states away to see how they live and buy trinkets and awesome fudge from them.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:33
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Nitrousoxide posted:But like why? Here in the USA we don't really have Romani. But we have Amish, and their communities are like tourist attractions. I mean I'm sure they get a bit of the other shoulder from some people, but people travel from states away to see how they live and buy trinkets and awesome fudge from them.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Don't the Amish live in very specific locations? Yeah, but like the Romani they haven't integrated into the modern world like at all.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:46
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Nitrousoxide posted:What is with the European hated of gypsies? They are seen as willfully refusing to participate in society.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:48
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Nitrousoxide posted:But like why? Here in the USA we don't really have Romani. But we have Amish, and their communities are like tourist attractions. I mean I'm sure they get a bit of the other shoulder from some people, but people travel from states away to see how they live and buy trinkets and awesome fudge from them. The Roma don't live in whimsical anachronistic villages, and they don't make "trinkets". They live in housing projects and are unemployed (because lots of such housing projects have no connection to places of employment).
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Aug 27, 2016 15:49
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Nitrousoxide posted:But like why? Here in the USA we don't really have Romani. But we have Amish, and their communities are like tourist attractions. I mean I'm sure they get a bit of the other shoulder from some people, but people travel from states away to see how they live and buy trinkets and awesome fudge from them. A lot of people of Romani descent live in the United States, how similar are their lives to their counterparts in Europe? Anyway I think its mostly because the uprooted lifestyle can make it very difficult for Gypsies to integrate, education can be erratic, they don't have much access to social services and amenities without fixed residences and usually seem to be distinct from and resented by many communities. Over the centuries mutual distrust grew up between the two groups, settled Europeans tend to have stereotypes of Travelling people as criminal, unwilling to integrate and and economically unproductive, Gypsies tend to see settled society as racist and hostile to just about every custom they have. Its not really comparable to Amish who at least have settled, if insular, communities that are popularly perceived to have such good 'ol American qualities like Godliness and hard work.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:51
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A better equivalent in the US would be Native Americans, especially since Roma and Travellers used to be heavily dependent on the common land system until the various governments and landowners of Europe enclosed it all and kicked them off, then told them that it was their fault.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:51
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Nitrousoxide posted:Yeah, but like the Romani they haven't integrated into the modern world like at all. You are romanticizing their situation, they have integrated (or have been integrated) inasmuch as any socially exluded population is integrated into the majority society. I don't think "proper" travelling gypsies are a thing anywhere in Europe in a significant quantity. And those that exist are more similar to American trailer park people than to some cartoon gypsy stereotypes.
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Aug 27, 2016 15:55
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Gypsies don't live in carriages carried by horses
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Aug 27, 2016 15:56
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khwarezm posted:A lot of people of Romani descent live in the United States, how similar are their lives to their counterparts in Europe? I can't remember ever hearing about the Romani except in the context of Europe. So they can't be the boogy man like they are there.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:01
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Kurtofan posted:Gypsies don't live in carriages carried by horses I admit I'm probably treating the situation for Irish Travellors and Gypsies in Europe too interchangeably.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:02
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khwarezm posted:I admit I'm probably treating the situation for Irish Travellors and Gypsies in Europe too interchangeably. In this video a guy drives through some Gypsy villages in Slovakia, for illustration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-FjwPTEyuo
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Aug 27, 2016 16:07
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At least in my country there are integrated Romani who have lived here for literal centuries, stay separate (like not too much intermarriage) but have businesses and the like and who only racists have problem with and the ones from Romania and other Eastern European shitholes where it is basically Jim Crow for them and thus they come here to beg and/or collect bottles. Never seen either with carriages.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:09
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DarkCrawler posted:At least in my country there are integrated Romani who have lived here for literal centuries, stay separate (like not too much intermarriage) but have businesses and the like and who only racists have problem with and the ones from Romania and other Eastern European shitholes where it is basically Jim Crow for them and thus they come here to beg and/or collect bottles. Never seen either with carriages. There are still a lot of stereotypes about them being thieves and similar stuff here though.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:14
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khwarezm posted:I admit I'm probably treating the situation for Irish Travellors and Gypsies in Europe too interchangeably.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:14
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DarkCrawler posted:At least in my country there are integrated Romani who have lived here for literal centuries, stay separate (like not too much intermarriage) but have businesses and the like and who only racists have problem with and the ones from Romania and other Eastern European shitholes where it is basically Jim Crow for them and thus they come here to beg and/or collect bottles. Never seen either with carriages. Blood feuds are a real problem, whether you are racist or not.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:14
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Nitrousoxide posted:I can't remember ever hearing about the Romani except in the context of Europe. So they can't be the boogy man like they are there. There were two major waves of Romani immigration to the United States, first in the early 20th century as part of the larger migration of Eastern and Southern Europeans, and then again with the fall of the Iron curtain and the reopening of the Soviet block during the same exodus that brought much of western Europe's current gypsy population. You don't hear about them in the United States because they are either a) just as assimilated as Irish or Italians, b) although still practicing many aspects of "typical" (n.b. this is in quotes because different communities of Romani are very heterogeneous) gypsy culture they choose not to reveal their identity from gadjo for fear of prejudice and Americans aren't savvy enough recognize them anyway, or b) they still practice typical Romani customs openly but America is big and diverse enough that they just disappear into the wider landscape. Estimates are rough and vary a lot but there's probably about a million people of gypsy heritage in the U.S. Five or six years ago American Romani actually held a big national conference about the crisis of Romani identity, because younger gypsies were increasingly settling intra-group disputes (usually over stuff like bride price and divorce) through the US courts and their weakening adherence to old purity customs like abstaining from sex and relationships with gadjo. This article touches on how the Roma community has interfaced with American culture. The way they talk they definitely sound more comfortable within the wider American milieu than what I tend to hear coming from Romani in western Europe. Not that they don't still feel occasionally discriminated against. http://www.voanews.com/a/for-roma-life-in-us-has-challenges-119394819/163156.html
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Aug 27, 2016 16:39
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Andrast posted:There are still a lot of stereotypes about them being thieves and similar stuff here though. It doesn't help with "stereotypes" when a minority (0.2% of the population) commits almost 20% of recorded thefts. You can try to ignore the actual facts like DarkCrawler does because I don't think he's ever talked to someone that runs a business, but if you own a shop in Finland, you'd be pretty drat stupid to NOT tell the security guy to watch the Romani closely - it's pretty simple statistical discrimination.  (Crimes per person - crimes leading to death, so murder, manslaughter etc.)  (Percentage of theft/robberies commited by ethnicity/nationality) Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 16:41
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Geriatric Pirate posted:It doesn't help with "stereotypes" when a minority (0.2% of the population) commits almost 20% of recorded thefts Emphasis being recorded.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:42
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Don't the Amish live in very specific locations? They're all over the place, even though there's certain areas where there's more of them like Lancaster. You'll also find them traveling quite far away to sell their stuff.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:45
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Squalid posted:You don't hear about them in the United States because they are either a) just as assimilated as Irish or Italians, b) although still practicing many aspects of "typical" (n.b. this is in quotes because different communities of Romani are very heterogeneous) gypsy culture they choose not to reveal their identity from gadjo for fear of prejudice and Americans aren't savvy enough recognize them anyway, or b) they still practice typical Romani customs openly but America is big and diverse enough that they just disappear into the wider landscape. Sounds like much more successful integration.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:45
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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computer parts posted:Emphasis being recorded. You seriously think their 100x over-representation in theft statistics is because of underreporting?
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Aug 27, 2016 16:45
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Geriatric Pirate posted:It doesn't help with "stereotypes" when a minority (0.2% of the population) commits almost 20% of recorded thefts. Obviously the solution here is to label all of them criminals. That will surely help these issues.
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Aug 27, 2016 16:48
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