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tagesschau posted:Again, nobody actually ends up paying $65,000 unless they're rich. Almost all international undergrads at Ivy League and other top-tier private universities in the US either get full rides or pay full tuition. Tuition remission and other financial aid programs at these universities are restricted to American students. quote:If you don't think going to a big-name institution as an undergrad gives you a better shot at getting into a better grad program, you aren't paying attention. Of course it does, and a 14 million dollar house is nicer than a $250k condo. But the increase in quality of education you get is marginal in comparison to the increase in tuition costs when you begin moving into the really big-name universities. The key to succeeding in graduate education is knowing a professor or two who are well connected and able to go to bat for you. All upper-level Canadian universities will have people in those positions who can get you into good programs if you are motivated. But in many fields (again, tech may be exceptional here - I'm not as familiar with it) there isn't a huge difference between a U of T or UBC grad with a 4.0 GPA, interesting research experience, and great letters of recommendation and a Princeton or Stanford grad with the same basic CV. This comes from years of working with grad students from a variety of fields in Canada and the US and talking to profs on admissions committees, in addition to my own experience. quote:You're kidding yourself if you think this doesn't happen more at universities in Canada. Harvard students aren't the ones making heavy use of essay mills. That's not true at all. In fact, I've found the opposite - it's the legacy admissions at top schools who just want to get their degree so they can go work at Morgan Stanley or become a burgeoning venture capitalist that get essays written for them, or exploit their frat connections to get the last 10 years of final exam answer keys for whatever course they're taking. What are you basing this on?
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Aug 26, 2016 17:10
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MeinPanzer posted:Almost all international undergrads at Ivy League and other top-tier private universities in the US either get full rides or pay full tuition. Tuition remission and other financial aid programs at these universities are restricted to American students. All Ivy League schools provide financial aid to international students; some of them cannot provide the same level of aid to international students, but Harvard, Princeton, and Yale provide exactly the same financial aid to international undergrads that they do to American undergrads. (What do you mean by "full ride"? There are no scholarships for athletics or merit in the Ivy League.) MeinPanzer posted:That's not true at all. In fact, I've found the opposite - it's the legacy admissions at top schools who just want to get their degree so they can go work at Morgan Stanley or become a burgeoning venture capitalist that get essays written for them, or exploit their frat connections to get the last 10 years of final exam answer keys for whatever course they're taking. The last ten years of final-exam answer keys are not going to be helpful unless your professor is reusing multiple-choice exams (this is not a common occurrence). They won't help you ace that math midterm. If your professor or TA knows you (and you're not going to be able to get lost in a thousand-person class at Harvard), you'd be a fool to think you could buy a paper from an essay mill and not have them notice.
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Aug 26, 2016 17:50
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PT6A posted:Is there a single sane Canadian who still holds even an iota of respect for their alma mater? I like how they call me every few weeks asking for donations. Like guys I'm not sure you understand how this works...
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Aug 26, 2016 18:03
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The Butcher posted:I like how they call me every few weeks asking for donations. In the long list of questionable academic decisions I've made, I did my grad studies at the same place as my undergrad degree. These fuckers were harassing me within weeks of graduating from my undergrad for money, despite being enrolled in a new program - I'm being dicked by you guys enough as it is, thank you.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:19
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It's like you guys have never heard of automatic call blockers
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Aug 26, 2016 18:20
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tagesschau posted:All Ivy League schools provide financial aid to international students; some of them cannot provide the same level of aid to international students, but Harvard, Princeton, and Yale provide exactly the same financial aid to international undergrads that they do to American undergrads. (What do you mean by "full ride"? There are no scholarships for athletics or merit in the Ivy League.) Of course it's not official, but Ivy Leagues absolutely do award full rides to students whose admission is primarily based on athletics or other non-academic criteria. My brother's friend from Victoria got into Princeton as an undergrad this way - they had a scholarship that was given to students based on "leadership" or some other vague quality and awarded it to him based on his experience as a rower; he wasn't particularly smart or anything. You are right about internationals students receiving financial aid; the reason I wasn't aware of that is that, in my experience of talking to those on admissions committees and involved with student counselling, financial aid in practice disproportionately goes to non-international students, again for the reason noted above - oftentimes international students are either A) extremely wealthy/well connected or B) provided with a scholarship that covers most or all of their tuition. quote:The last ten years of final-exam answer keys are not going to be helpful unless your professor is reusing multiple-choice exams (this is not a common occurrence). They won't help you ace that math midterm. Maybe not in math, but it sure is in other fields; multiple choice answers and essay topics get re-used often, because it makes marking substantially easier both for profs and TAs. quote:If your professor or TA knows you (and you're not going to be able to get lost in a thousand-person class at Harvard), you'd be a fool to think you could buy a paper from an essay mill and not have them notice. You'd be surprised the kind of poo poo that students pull. Again, as I stated before, I personally have caught students cheating on multiple occasions (including plagiarising) and had the infraction minimized or swept under the rug every time.
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Aug 26, 2016 18:21
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MeinPanzer posted:Of course it's not official, but Ivy Leagues absolutely do award full rides to students whose admission is primarily based on athletics or other non-academic criteria. My brother's friend from Victoria got into Princeton as an undergrad this way - they had a scholarship that was given to students based on "leadership" or some other vague quality and awarded it to him based on his experience as a rower; he wasn't particularly smart or anything. You are right about internationals students receiving financial aid; the reason I wasn't aware of that is that, in my experience of talking to those on admissions committees and involved with student counselling, financial aid in practice disproportionately goes to non-international students, again for the reason noted above - oftentimes international students are either A) extremely wealthy/well connected or B) provided with a scholarship that covers most or all of their tuition. That aid is still based entirely on his family's ability to pay, so if he'd gotten in and not been a rower, he would have received the same amount of financial aid. Instead of coming from a scholarship fund for rowers, it would come from a scholarship fund for Canadians, or a scholarship fund for people who live on islands, or what-have-you, but the amount of aid is not greater because he rows. If Princeton is giving you a scholarship that covers most or all of your tuition, it's based on financial need, not on your erg time. ↓ edit: "scholarship" is the term ↓ tagesschau fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 26, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 18:40
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tagesschau posted:If Princeton is giving you a
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Aug 26, 2016 18:51
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MeinPanzer posted:Again, if you want to end up in a very specific situation, like getting a great job directly out of undergrad at a top SV company, then sure you should cough up the 65k USD a year it costs to attend Caltech or wherever as an international student. But otherwise going to U of T or Waterloo would provide an education that will give you all the skills you need and a degree that is respected by many Americans for a fraction of the price. There are probably more internships done each year at top SV companies by Waterloo students than any other school each year, and interships are by far the best way to get good new grad tech jobs. For other sectors like finance, an Ivy league school is probably better, but tech is really hot right now and Waterloo is really, really good at getting students jobs because of their co-op program. There's nothing like it anywhere else in North America. It's also way, way harder to get into Caltech than it is to get into Waterloo. tagesschau posted:All Ivy League schools provide financial aid to international students; some of them cannot provide the same level of aid to international students, but Harvard, Princeton, and Yale provide exactly the same financial aid to international undergrads that they do to American undergrads. (What do you mean by "full ride"? There are no scholarships for athletics or merit in the Ivy League.) This is correct. When I was accepted Princeton as an undergrad (10+ years ago), the amount of financial aid provided made it significantly cheaper than e.g. Waterloo would have been -- even with a large merit-based scholarship from the Waterloo math department. There were no academic scholarships available at all, everything was strictly need-based. I think the main difference was that financial aid packages at these schools also cover room/board costs.
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Aug 26, 2016 19:26
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sbaldrick posted:It is by far the highest paid trades job but it's only like 45 bucks an hour and they only work 9 to 5 for the most part because gently caress you. I think you're forgetting to account for on-call pay, call out, over time, double time, and even triple time. It helps that people actually depend on elevators for malls and high rise condos because they just can not wait for Monday for service work. E: the next highest pay I think is fire system tech?
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Aug 26, 2016 20:13
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quaint bucket posted:It helps that people actually depend on elevators for malls and high rise condos because they just can not wait for Monday for service work. Our building had both elevators unserviceable for weeks on end once. What's it like living in a building where management actually gives a gently caress?
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Aug 26, 2016 21:16
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PT6A posted:Is there a single sane Canadian who still holds even an iota of respect for their alma mater? I do, but I went to vocational schools so 
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Aug 26, 2016 21:30
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PT6A posted:Is there a single sane Canadian who still holds even an iota of respect for their alma mater? Medicine Hat College represent! 
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Aug 26, 2016 21:42
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quaint bucket posted:I think you're forgetting to account for on-call pay, call out, over time, double time, and even triple time.
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Aug 26, 2016 21:46
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cowofwar posted:Well businesses in Toronto managed to lobby for less frequent and less stringent elevator service and maintenance regulation. It's a race to the bottom, a very fast race to the bottom with a hard landing. falling windows and falling elevators. Condo life is the best
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Aug 26, 2016 22:00
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At my old building the elevator was super shittily designed so that about 1/10 times if you just held the door open instead of using the "door open" function the whole elevator would shut down and they'd have to send in a serviceman. I swear like probably 50% of that building's strata fees went to calling out the guy because people are morons who didn't listen to the giant sign warning them that would happen. At least every time it happened the guy would be there within a few hours, despite there only being like 3 groups of people including us that lived in the building full-time.
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Aug 26, 2016 22:26
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Anecdotally I've noticed that even ~luxury condos~ in Vancouver tend to have only the bare minimum in terms of maintenance and amenities, so as to get strata fees as low as possible. I assume this is because running a building well costs money and most Vancouver owners have little disposable income. In comparison, high end condos in other places tend to have a much higher level of service, even if the actual unit costs less.
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Aug 26, 2016 22:43
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blah_blah posted:Anecdotally I've noticed that even ~luxury condos~ in Vancouver tend to have only the bare minimum in terms of maintenance and amenities, so as to get strata fees as low as possible. I assume this is because running a building well costs money and most Vancouver owners have little disposable income. In comparison, high end condos in other places tend to have a much higher level of service, even if the actual unit costs less. Yeah, I've noticed this also. The typical strata/HOA condo fees in Seattle, say, are like double the price of Vancouver, and that's numerically - before you factor in USDCAD.
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Aug 26, 2016 23:06
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blah_blah posted:Anecdotally I've noticed that even ~luxury condos~ in Vancouver tend to have only the bare minimum in terms of maintenance and amenities, so as to get strata fees as low as possible. I assume this is because running a building well costs money and most Vancouver owners have little disposable income. In comparison, high end condos in other places tend to have a much higher level of service, even if the actual unit costs less. If you ignore the broken elevator, conciege desk staffed by a rat and the locked door on the exercise room but do notice the stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops, you are looking at a luxury condo in Vancouver.
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Aug 27, 2016 01:33
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I get what he's doing, they're trying to make the election a referendum on Wynne (and her sexuality is 100% being dog whistled here). I don't think it's going to work. The OPCs need to stop cribbing from US playbooks. Trying to make their election a referendum on Hillary isn't exactly working. Neither did making 2012 a referendum on Obama. Maybe pitch some real concrete policy alternatives beyond "cut taxes" and I bet voters would listen.
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Aug 27, 2016 01:41
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namaste faggots posted:So instead my kid can go to UBC and get a job working at business objects That's oddly specific and dates you
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Aug 27, 2016 02:29
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Tech is so hard up for good people that this is the first time in years I've even seen a discussion about which university is good. Nobody gives a gently caress what school you went to in tech. It's just about whether you're skilled / smart / not a social retard or not. I keep seeing "university doesn't matter but tech may be an exception" and I promise it's the opposite
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Aug 27, 2016 02:36
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kwantlen poly university grad spotted
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Aug 27, 2016 02:42
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By the way this is why innovationnnnnn in Canada is such a loving joke. The notion that some scrub rear end poly grad is just as good as a Caltech grad lmao
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Aug 27, 2016 02:43
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Because Canada's wealth has always been derived from taking something out of the ground and putting it somewhere else. Wheat, oil, lumber, you name it. Anything beyond that is likely witchcraft.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:05
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I meant real universities. Nobody gives a gently caress about UBC vs Waterloo vs UVIC vs McGill in tech. Sure we might have more confidence about a fresh Waterloo candidate but every place produces poo poo people so it's all about the interview / side projects / etc.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:27
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Vehementi posted:I meant real universities. Nobody gives a gently caress about UBC vs Waterloo vs UVIC vs McGill in tech. Sure, nobody cares about UVic vs Waterloo in tech. Except for the biggest employers, I guess.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:57
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No, not except them. Sure they might have some feelings about UVic not being as good initially, but they're going to interview promising candidates from everywhere, and the context of this conversation was whether or not you should pay a ton of money to go to a specific university in order to get a "good tech job". If you're good then google etc. will interview you whether you went to Uvic or Waterloo.
Vehementi fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 04:02
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Vehementi posted:I meant real universities. Nobody gives a gently caress about UBC vs Waterloo vs UVIC vs McGill in tech. Sure we might have more confidence about a fresh Waterloo candidate but every place produces poo poo people so it's all about the interview / side projects / etc. That's "kinda" true, but unless you have 10 years of professional work under your belt, and can get recommended by someone on the inside, good luck making it to the interview with average grades from some ransom university at a Google/Microsoft/Facebook company. It doesn't matter how qualified you are if you don't get an opportunity to prove it. Edit: Smaller companies are hurting for qualified people, and you would have an easier time, especially if you can deliver on skills.
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Aug 27, 2016 04:08
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Lexicon posted:Yeah, I've noticed this also. The typical strata/HOA condo fees in Seattle, say, are like double the price of Vancouver, and that's numerically - before you factor in USDCAD. BC condo fees are artificially low compared to everywhere else. I assume this is some marketing technique driven by the fact that everyone is ultra over leveraged in order to afford the condos in the first place. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Aug 27, 2016 04:27
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Vehementi posted:No, not except them. Sure they might have some feelings about UVic not being as good initially, but they're going to interview promising candidates from everywhere, and the context of this conversation was whether or not you should pay a ton of money to go to a specific university in order to get a "good tech job". If you're good then google etc. will interview you whether you went to Uvic or Waterloo. I haven't been part of hiring at Google, but I know that at Facebook Waterloo carries prestige in do-we-offer debrief, especially for new grads.
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Aug 27, 2016 04:33
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PT6A posted:Our building had both elevators unserviceable for weeks on end once. What's it like living in a building where management actually gives a gently caress? It was really nice. It helps I was on council and can play the "I'm an operations manager, rear end in a top hat" card to keep the management group honest.
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Aug 27, 2016 05:52
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Vehementi posted:No, not except them. Sure they might have some feelings about UVic not being as good initially, but they're going to interview promising candidates from everywhere, and the context of this conversation was whether or not you should pay a ton of money to go to a specific university in order to get a "good tech job". If you're good then google etc. will interview you whether you went to Uvic or Waterloo. When you're 2-3 years out and have already gotten a job at a decent company, no one cares about where you went to school anymore. The essential difference is that it is much easier to get a good job out of undergrad from Waterloo, because internships are by far the best route to good jobs right now (many companies fill up the majority of their new grad hire quota almost completely from internships), and because getting high-quality internships at Waterloo is much easier there than anywhere else in Canada (arguably North America) -- their co-op program probably places 20x as many undergrads at internships in Silicon Valley as UVic's does. Waterloo students also do more co-op terms, their co-op terms are longer (often 4 months versus 3 at other schools), they can do co-op terms during the school year as opposed to summer-only like at most other schools, and their alumni network is stronger. I know I sound like a Waterloo shill here, but I'm really not -- you couldnt've possibly paid me enough to want to spend 4+ years of my life in Kitchener-Waterloo.
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Aug 27, 2016 06:26
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Aramis posted:That's "kinda" true, but unless you have 10 years of professional work under your belt, and can get recommended by someone on the inside, good luck making it to the interview with average grades from some ransom university at a Google/Microsoft/Facebook company. It doesn't matter how qualified you are if you don't get an opportunity to prove it. I can definitely verify this, I had an interview locked at Google, knew people on the inside who vouched, and am generally a skilled/affable dude - none of that mattered when it came out that I got mediocre grades at a state college (and not even in my current skillset, I have a business degree but am a developer by trade). It went from "wow you're really qualified and these people vouched for you? That's excellent" to "what the gently caress is this? Go away" pretty quick. My large amount of past experience and proven track record simply did not matter at that point. The big companies adhere extremely closely to what are essentially algorithms that dictate your future performance. I would argue that those algorithms are flawed, but here we are. They are completely uninterested in employees that do not fit an extremely specific set of parameters that they have determined are the "best". Taima fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 06:31
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blah_blah posted:When you're 2-3 years out and have already gotten a job at a decent company, no one cares about where you went to school anymore. The essential difference is that it is much easier to get a good job out of undergrad from Waterloo, because internships are by far the best route to good jobs right now (many companies fill up the majority of their new grad hire quota almost completely from internships), and because getting high-quality internships at Waterloo is much easier there than anywhere else in Canada (arguably North America) -- their co-op program probably places 20x as many undergrads at internships in Silicon Valley as UVic's does. Internships definitely are the way to go but AFAIK most people from those programs (at whatever university) get placed and I know they all try for US positions too. I guess since companies need to work with schools on an individual basis it's likely there are some companies that don't bother to take co-ops from UBC but I know for example Microsoft (Redmond) does/did. I think "I worked for 20 months at internships" is going to get you in the door for an interview anywhere. I can not imagine a Uvic grad with good grades and 5 placements being turned down for an interview at google because their placements weren't in SV or they're not from Waterloo. That's just too wacky when all the companies need all the new blood they can here. quote:Waterloo students also do more co-op terms, their co-op terms are longer (often 4 months versus 3 at other schools), they can do co-op terms during the school year as opposed to summer-only like at most other schools, and their alumni network is stronger. All of these things are true of UBC, SFU and Uvic (I've hired co-ops for 4-12 month terms from all of them)
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Aug 27, 2016 06:41
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I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue at this point. I work for a company that is near or at the top of basically every list of the best places to work in tech. We have more Waterloo interns (in my role at least) than any other school (next few would probably be Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard, CMU, etc). Conversely, I have never seen a UVic intern here (or a UVic FTE, though I know a decent number of UBC and even SFU FTEs). It is much easier to get a FTE offer through a successful internship, than through passing a full onsite hiring loop. The rates of success of those two are substanitally different. This is because full hiring loops tend to try very hard to protect against false positives, whereas the risk of that is much lower for someone you've worked with for 3 or 4 months.Vehementi posted:I think "I worked for 20 months at internships" is going to get you in the door for an interview anywhere. I can not imagine a Uvic grad with good grades and 5 placements being turned down for an interview at google because their placements weren't in SV or they're not from Waterloo. The vast majority of our new grad positions are filled by interns. And nothing at all will get you in the door for an interview if the new grad hiring quota has already been met for the year. Vehementi posted:All of these things are true of UBC, SFU and Uvic (I've hired co-ops for 4-12 month terms from all of them) Waterloo is the only school that does 4 month internships with us.
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Aug 27, 2016 07:13
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James Baud fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2016 07:50
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James Baud posted:Bad derail or worst derail? Throatwarbler posted:I hope all this prompts at least some posters in this thread to re-evaluate the causes and effects, both good and bad, of the great proletarian cultural revolution and come to some other conclusions instead of just parroting the current communist party line that it was a great disaster and nothing good came out of it.
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Aug 27, 2016 13:10
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YOSPOS bitch!
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Aug 27, 2016 13:29
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James Baud posted:Bad derail or worst derail? Worst. It was less painful to hear that my parents got scammed for six figures in a prefab condo operation that has since vanished under questionably legal restructuring.
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