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Jesus christ, I just remembered how terrible EU3 was compared to 4. Remember the minting slider and paying for tech with gold?
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Aug 28, 2016 17:48
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itt people rewrite history to pretend ck2 was as bad as stellaris
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Aug 28, 2016 17:55
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:Eu4 was generally well received and the only detractors at launched screamed "monarch mana" or some bogus poo poo That wasn't the only thing, there were a ton of stuff people were upset about in EU4 Heck there were also a ton of stuff people complained about in CK2, I remember the laws had a bunch of threads, heck was even one asking for Skåne to be its own kingdom on release(not me, promise). Lack of cadet branches was a major complaint which it is even today. The difference between then in 2012 and now is that at most those threads got 2 pages, 4-6 pages if it was a huge thing. compare that today where anything will quickly go to 50 pages for whatever. There's a huge difference in both audience, scale and culture compared to 4 years ago. Groogy fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 17:55
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corn in the bible posted:itt people rewrite history to pretend ck2 was as bad as stellaris CK2 was pretty barebones like Stellaris yes.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:01
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CharlestheHammer posted:CK2 was pretty barebones like Stellaris yes. EU4 really didn't have that much going on at launch either. Sure, the diplomacy was certainly ahead of where Stellaris is now, but Stellaris has way more features and depth than launch EU4 did in pretty much every other area. If you don't believe me, go ahead and roll back EU4 to the oldest available patch. See how find you fun it compared to the latest one. Now realize Stellaris is being compared to the current EU4 version when people say it's 'barebones'. It's pretty silly. Stellaris suffers from us not fleshing out the midgame and diplomacy enough. This is the single biggest issue with the game, and something we're working to address, but it doesn't mean it's some kind of Paradox early access game with barely any features. Wiz fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 18:05
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Wiz posted:EU4 really didn't have that much going on at launch either. Sure, the diplomacy was certainly ahead of where Stellaris is now, but Stellaris has way more features and depth than launch EU4 did in pretty much every other area. If you don't believe me, go ahead and roll back EU4 to the oldest available patch. See how find you fun it compared to the latest one. Now realize Stellaris is being compared to the current EU4 version when people say it's 'barebones'. It's pretty silly. Maybe it's just that all your games are released like they're in early access with barely any features? 
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Aug 28, 2016 18:12
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Maybe it's just that all your games are released like they're in early access with barely any features? Seems legit. Gonna pitch an early access survival game as our next title. Honestly, the one I find most bizarre where people are complaining about dumbing down/lack of depth/cut content is HOI4. HOI4 has basically every feature worth anything from previous HOI titles and then some. What exactly was cut besides 3 hours of micromanaging OOBs at the start of any game? 
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Aug 28, 2016 18:13
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Was the V2 patch ever released for non-Steam versions of the game?
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Aug 28, 2016 18:15
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Wiz posted:Seems legit. Gonna pitch an early access survival game as our next title. So fuckin' agreed. I hope nobody gets convinced to exhume the festering corpse of OOB. Wouldn't mind something slightly more involved than "put 300 divisions under field marshal, draw offensive line encompassing entire enemy country, set to blitz mode, allow superior industry and division design to win war for you", but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:26
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Wiz posted:Seems legit. Gonna pitch an early access survival game as our next title. It is really amazing how incredibly important people seem to think the OoB system is considering that it added next to nothing and was only in HoI 3. 1+2 didn't have it, not even in the rudimentary shape it is in 4. I guess people just want to micromanage everything to hell and back, because for most wargamers that represents depth. Same applies to the battleplan system - its a great addition considering the level of play the game is going for, but people are so used to ordering every single goddamn division around that they just instinctively hate it. Gort posted:Wouldn't mind something slightly more involved than "put 300 divisions under field marshal, draw offensive line encompassing entire enemy country, set to blitz mode, allow superior industry and division design to win war for you", but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. I've found the game much more enjoyable when I don't use field marshals at all and only use 24 division armies (army groups, I guess).
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Aug 28, 2016 18:59
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HoI4 is the first HoI game I actually felt comfortable controlling both the military and economic aspects of the game, whereas before I either rammed poo poo into more poo poo hoping it would work or just set it to AI and hoped I made enough good poo poo it could ram into other poo poo.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:07
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Wiz posted:Seems legit. Gonna pitch an early access survival game as our next title. Diplomatic map mode that shows the cores and claims of the selected country
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Aug 28, 2016 19:16
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A supply system that applies a limit on troop numbers dependent upon industrial capacity
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Aug 28, 2016 19:20
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Separatist rebels
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Aug 28, 2016 19:22
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Tag switching and arbitrary name and flag changes
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Aug 28, 2016 19:23
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I'll give you the mapmode and tag switching, but those are hella minor. HOI3's supply system was utter garbage that had to be changed to arcade mode for the game to be playable, and separatist rebels amounted to nothing but pointless micro.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:30
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The OOB sucked but I felt the theater thing, although clunky and inflexible, to be able to handle wars better. Although this might not even be the case anymore since the last patch. Your general just needs 40,000 more tactical bombers, no big deal.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:49
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Wiz posted:Honestly, the one I find most bizarre where people are complaining about dumbing down/lack of depth/cut content is HOI4. HOI4 has basically every feature worth anything from previous HOI titles and then some. What exactly was cut besides 3 hours of micromanaging OOBs at the start of any game? The Fading Sun event which allowed a Chinese winning end to the Sino-Japanese War without having to invade the home islands.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:55
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corn in the bible posted:itt people rewrite history to pretend ck2 was as bad as stellaris Most Paradox games are about rewriting history so
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Aug 28, 2016 21:40
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I really can't remember what CK2 and EU4 was like at launch but I know I enjoyed them. I enjoyed Stellaris as well but not for very long and I haven't played it far enough to get to an endgame crisis despite 113 hours according to steam. It just isn't very fun past the first expansion stage. I'm interested to see what CK3 or EU5 would look like though. Civilization 5 got a lot of poo poo on release for being Civ 4 without the expansions, and then it got the expansions which were pretty pricy. Unless Paradox commits to releasing a CK3 or EU5 with basically all previous features at launch they're going to get a lot of poo poo from the fanbase over it unless they are somehow incredibly revolutionary in ways we haven't thought about yet. And even then every DLC expansion is going to get the 'how does this compare to X DLC from before' treatment.
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Aug 28, 2016 21:44
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Wiz posted:Seems legit. Gonna pitch an early access survival game as our next title. The ability to feel human.
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Aug 28, 2016 22:05
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Demiurge4 posted:I really can't remember what CK2 and EU4 was like at launch but I know I enjoyed them. I enjoyed Stellaris as well but not for very long and I haven't played it far enough to get to an endgame crisis despite 113 hours according to steam. It just isn't very fun past the first expansion stage. Honestly is there even a reason to make a CK3 or EU5? CK2 and EU4 look so different from launch now you could argue they're not the same game. CK3/EU5 could just be one really big patch and DLC. Would making a CK3 or EU5 their own separate game even be a gain?
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Aug 29, 2016 18:22
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The act of moving to a new engine with new tools that enables you to do more whilst also dropping the bloat and rejuvenating the good features should never be underestimated. It's also the best time to bring in new players your franchise who otherwise wont pick the game up due to the large collection of expansions and dlc, irrespective of how cheap it is sometimes. I expect its not the next game series to come up, but after any new IP/Followup to Victoria or at a long shot, EU:Rome, CK2 should be the next to go through the sequel machine. Westminster System fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 18:26
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East Vs. West: A Hearts of Iron 4 Game
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Aug 29, 2016 18:29
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axeil posted:Honestly is there even a reason to make a CK3 or EU5? CK2 and EU4 look so different from launch now you could argue they're not the same game. CK3/EU5 could just be one really big patch and DLC. If they could have something simmering on the backburner while managing individual expansions then yeah, a sequel won't do much. But to have code in movement that way is a huge feat of project management compared to the coordination you can have if you can sit back and say OK we have 2 years to do nothing but sweeping changes.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:31
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HoI4 is great. Sure the AI isn't stellar (heh) but it's good enough and it's been a great game for competitive multiplayer where you can knock out a game in a night or two. Really solid game, with plenty of content built in. The AI fixes should really make the game more challenging (there's some workshop mods that already deal with some of the bigger issues), and the next big challenge is dealing with the late game.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:31
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I wish peace conferences ever ended up with anything other than one side being totally annexed, except MAYBE a puppeted capital.
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Aug 29, 2016 21:54
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Arrhythmia posted:I wish peace conferences ever ended up with anything other than one side being totally annexed, except MAYBE a puppeted capital. It doesn't really matter since you're going to quit at that point since there's no challenge left in the game.
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Aug 29, 2016 22:09
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Arrhythmia posted:I wish peace conferences ever ended up with anything other than one side being totally annexed, except MAYBE a puppeted capital. You should be able to reverse the decision another country made if you pay what they paid in points and then some, which will be given to the other party. It would make such scenarios a lot less likely. Also there should be an option to transfer industry and the like for points so that minor countries don't have to spend their points at the end of the conference annexing some godforsaken province in the middle of nowhere because that was the only thing left (looking at you, Hungarian Ural mountains).
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Aug 29, 2016 22:13
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eu3 was good
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Aug 29, 2016 22:14
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Gort posted:It doesn't really matter since you're going to quit at that point since there's no challenge left in the game. my friend, nothing but pretty borders matters
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Aug 29, 2016 22:17
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Eve Online has a really cool character engine and CK3 should figure out what it is and use it. Regarding HoI4 spergs angry about systems not there from HoI3: I really hope Paradox never listens to these guys. By actively not giving into their whiny demands, they made a fun game.
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Aug 30, 2016 00:21
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ExtraNoise posted:Eve Online has a really cool character engine and CK3 should figure out what it is and use it. Wiz just accepted that some things removed were good, not sure why you're pretending it's all unreasonable stuff.
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Aug 30, 2016 00:25
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ExtraNoise posted:Eve Online has a really cool character engine and CK3 should figure out what it is and use it. Yeah HoI4 is a solid game and exactly as complex as it needs to be. The only stuff I really feel like is "missing" is stuff that I honestly don't know how they could implement in a fun way, anyway (espionage, mainly. A huge part of WW2, but also boring as poo poo in like 99% of strategy games).
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Aug 30, 2016 00:26
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And espionage is still there in a barebones sense anyway. Decryption/Encryption manages to do the vast majority of what you'd want an espionage system to do.
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Aug 30, 2016 00:30
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:And espionage is still there in a barebones sense anyway. Decryption/Encryption manages to do the vast majority of what you'd want an espionage system to do. It would be nice if radars revealed the fog of war
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Aug 30, 2016 00:31
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Make a HoI4 spinoff that's nothing but running a wartime espionage service. I want a game that feels like reading the WWII sections of Cryptonomicon.
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Aug 30, 2016 00:44
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Enjoy posted:It would be nice if radars revealed the fog of war ??? I thought they did though. Or at least i remeber the tool tips saying they did
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Aug 30, 2016 01:07
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Agean90 posted:??? I thought they did though. Or at least i remeber the tool tips saying they did It was in a dev diary but I've never seen it in practice https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-39th-development-diary-8th-of-january-2016.901374/
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Aug 30, 2016 01:22
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I would like to think that the next game in each series would be more than just a cleanup/engine upgrade with minor features added or removed. Granted I haven't seen HoI4 so I don't know how big a leap that is from 3, but as great a game as EU4 is the leap from EU3 to EU4 (on release, of course) was a bit of a letdown. I'm not sure we'll get a leap as big as from the Europa games to the Clausewitz games for a few years still, but I'd like to hope that Victoria 3 and EU5 will be part of a leap of that magnitude.
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Aug 30, 2016 01:34
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