|
Blamestorm posted:I understand FFG replaced the original campaign in recent Descent 2e boxes with the Heirs of Blood campaign that previously was sold as its own book. So if he got a newer box, it's a much superior campaign, probably on par with Shadows of Nerekhall. Oh, interesting. That's pretty nice of them. I don't suppose they put it up as a pdf or something useful you could download and switch over yourself? (ha ha ha)
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 03:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 18:48 |
|
|
silvergoose posted:Not having played Sonar, I found dice duel to be underwhelming because it was too frenetic, and Sonar sounds like it's less that and more strategic. I haven't played Dice Duel but Captain Sonar is all the strategy of your standard hide-and-seek game except every player is pretty deeply involved in their own micro-game. Real time is certainly chaotic, maybe overwhelmingly so, because players need to get into a Navy-style cadence where the Captain gives an order and the engineer confirms the order and the 1st mate calls systems that are ready. And when you surface everyone has to draw inside the lines of the sub while your opponents are still taking turns. But the game works very well turn based. Eventually people get comfortable enough to proceed at such a rapid pace there's practically no downtime.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:18
|
|
|
The other major difference is that dice duel is you frantically chucking dice where Sonar is almost like the euro version of that with no dice or the luck that comes along with that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 06:38
|
|
|
Now that you mention it, what ARE the player station minigames like in Captain Sonar?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 07:42
|
|
|
theroachman posted:Now that you mention it, what ARE the player station minigames like in Captain Sonar? The SUSD review does a decent job of explaining the stations - https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/videos/review-captain-sonar/
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 10:42
|
|
|
theroachman posted:Now that you mention it, what ARE the player station minigames like in Captain Sonar? The four roles: The Captain decides and calls out the movements of the sub one dot at a time (EAST, WEST, NORTH, SOUTH). With each move, the Captain draws the submarine's route on a dry-erase map. The sub cannot cross its own path, a la Snake, and also cannot cross islands or its own mines.  Fig. 1: The Captain's map. One of many. In Real Time Mode, the captain calls out one maneuver at a time (ex. "EAST"), then waits for confirmation from both the First Mate and Engineer (ex. "Ok," "Ok," see below) before calling out another move. Additionally, the captain can call out STOP to activate a special system, at which point everyone must stop what they're doing. The captain then announces the ability: TORPEDO IN [coordinates], DEPLOY MINE, ACTIVATING SONAR, et cetera. The first mate and engineer then confirm that the system is both ready and functional, respectively. For certain systems (weapons and detectors), the enemy captain must then respond. Once everyone has responded as needed, Real Time immediately resumes. Finally, instead of calling a move, the Captain may call SURFACE. (This can happen unintentionally as well, if the Captain can't declare a legal move.) This immediately repairs all the engineer's systems and lets the Captain erase the sub's path from the Captain's map...but the Captain must also reveal the submarine's current sector, and the whole team has to play a little nightmare tracing minigame while the enemy bears down. --- Of course, the Captain must shout all this poo poo for the benefit of the enemy Radio Operator, who has a copy of the captain's map and a big fuckoff sheet of acetate.  Fig. 2: A big fuckoff sheet of acetate. The Radio Operator tracks the enemy captain's movements on the BFSoA, along with any notes they like on sonars, torpedo launches, silent running, whatever helps. The operator then compares the BFSoA to the map, trying to pinpoint where the enemy submarine could possibly be. Simple enough. --- The First Mate, aka the Weapons Officer, charges up the various sub-systems as the Captain moves.  Fig. 3: Things what go beep, and things what go boom. Every time the Captain moves the sub, the First Mate marks off a space on one of the gauges on this sheet. When a gauge is full up, the system is ready to be used, and the First Mate informs the captain. When the captain uses a system, the First Mate clears the gauge. Additionally, the First Mate has the authority to activate and announce the SONAR and DRONE systems in place of the Captain. (Sometimes the Captain is just too busy to confer with the radio operator. Sometimes the Captain is about to break the loving SONAR like a blind toddler and you gotta take the reins.) Lastly, the First Mate tracks sub damage in that little red box. You got four hitpoints before everything gets very, very wet. --- Finally, the humble Engineer, who takes up the job of every technician in every field: Watching a blithering oaf break everything, with optional (but recommended) soft crying.  Fig. 4: Hell. Every single time the Captain announces a move, the Engineer picks one of those little bubbles on the sheet, in the quadrant corresponding to the direction the Captain just moved. Those bubbles, they are like the Engineer's precious children. Then the Engineer draws a big ugly black X through that bubble, as though the Captain had just stepped on the Engineer's child's head. Some of the bubbles helpfully correspond to the systems on the First Mate's control panel. If ANY system bubble is marked out of commission, then the matching systems cannot be used. Whoopsie daisy. Some of the bubbles instead have a friendly little radioactive symbol. These correspond to the ship's nuclear reactor. If all of THESE are marked out, the engineer announces "DAMAGE," for the benefit of the crew and the entertainment of the enemy. The First Mate marks off one of those four precious hitpoint boxes. But, the Engineer does get to clean the marks off of all the reactor symbols, with the aid of the Engineer's frustrated tears. Likewise, if all six bubbles in a single sector are marked out, the Engineer announces "DAMAGE," with the same results, the same erasing, and the same crying. But! You'l note that some of the bubbles are linked in one of three brightly-colored circuits. If all of the bubbles in a circuit are marked out, hooray, the Engineer can actually fix something! The Engineer immediately erases all those bubbles. You'll note that a big part of the Engineer's job is pleading with the captain to go in certain directions to maybe fix some systems, or at least not break other systems. Sometimes, the Captain even listens. Sometimes, the Captain does not listen. There is one last reprieve for a beleaguered Engineer. If the Captain surfaces the submarine, you can erase ALL of the damage from the systems. And then you get to play a fun minigame. Did you wonder what that big white submarine diagram was for? Because you shouldn't have. Pick one of those white sections. Trace it carefully, without touching the sides. Then initial it. Then pass your sheet to the First Mate, who does the same with another section. Repeat for the Captain and Radio Operator. Then, show the sheet to the enemy engineer, to confirm that you haven't messed up this little game. Once everyone's completed this little ritual, the Engineer can call READY TO DIVE, and the Captain can erase his map and call DIVE. At which point you can erase the diagram and resume playing. The enemy, by the way, did not stop playing while you were doing this. They were probably playing as fast as they can. They probably know where you are. Ignore that whooshing, whirring sound, like something coming closer very quickly. It's probably just your imagination. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Aug 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 11:05
|
|
|
Disclaimer. I have not actually played Captain Sonar. I might have done a lot of research on Captain Sonar, because I want to buy Captain Sonar. I have no money, and cannot buy Captain Sonar.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 11:09
|
|
|
I really,really want to play Captain Sonar but there's no way i'd be able to consistanly have enough people to have the fun chaotic version everybody is talking about  Also, I'm completed my ascension into the church of Vlaada by picking up Dungeon Lords. The rule book says playing with 2 players is a bit more complicated but is it a complete dealbreaker? I definitely get a 3rd and maybe 4th but more than likely it's going to me and another person playing this a majority of the time. Just taking a quick scan through the rules has me intrigued though, the building aspect of Galaxy Truckers combined with some of the cold hard math of Mage Knight.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 12:06
|
|
|
HOOLY BOOLY posted:Also, I'm completed my ascension into the church of Vlaada by picking up Dungeon Lords. The rule book says playing with 2 players is a bit more complicated but is it a complete dealbreaker? I definitely get a 3rd and maybe 4th but more than likely it's going to me and another person playing this a majority of the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 12:17
|
|
|
Yeah 2 is cool, 3 is a little weird, 4 is ideal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 13:08
|
|
|
al-azad posted:But the game works very well turn based. Eventually people get comfortable enough to proceed at such a rapid pace there's practically no downtime. Didn't play it turn based, but I imagine it would lose a lot of its charm being under such scrutiny. Part of the game is figuring out where the other sub is, realizing they're heading towards you, and standing there not moving as you wait for them to get into range all the while they haven't realized you stopped moving for a reason. Or making a few frantic moves while their radio operator is busy outlining the sub section to dive and completely loving up their map. Every role feels important, every role is pretty fun, and Sonar is a really good game. Just have to be sure that you have captains who very, very clearly and loudly declare their moves to the table - not speaking clearly and not shouting HEADING before cross talking with their engineers can lead to not being able to tell the difference between movement and planning.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 14:40
|
|
|
Nephzinho posted:Didn't play it turn based, but I imagine it would lose a lot of its charm being under such scrutiny. Part of the game is figuring out where the other sub is, realizing they're heading towards you, and standing there not moving as you wait for them to get into range all the while they haven't realized you stopped moving for a reason. Or making a few frantic moves while their radio operator is busy outlining the sub section to dive and completely loving up their map. Every role feels important, every role is pretty fun, and Sonar is a really good game. Just have to be sure that you have captains who very, very clearly and loudly declare their moves to the table - not speaking clearly and not shouting HEADING before cross talking with their engineers can lead to not being able to tell the difference between movement and planning. What it loses in charm it makes up with added tension. You can track the game relatively easy so both captain's need to be aware of when they pull their next move. Weapons announces the missiles are ready for the enemy sub, but do they know where I am? Should I push ahead or surface or fire my own missile? There's the Tron Light Cycle thing going on where you can't cross over your path and having the perfect information of going back and forth leads to a game that's closer to the quiet tension of being in the CIC of a ship. Radio can confer with the captain on the best places to attack and engineer can discuss the best heading openly. It also means surfacing has more of a tactical advantage as the opponent will only ever get three moves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 15:41
|
|
|
Hauki posted:Enchanted grounds way the gently caress down south has an okay cafe area that seems to stay fairly busy, but their selection is a little small. Wizards chest probably has the best retail selection and is relatively central. They moved recently and have a lot more play space now. I've heard good things about a couple places up in Broomfield and Thornton but I don't remember names offhand and I usually avoid that area like the plague. Thanks, he checked out Wizard's Chest and said it was amazing!
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 15:57
|
|
|
The worst submarine posted:Thanks, he checked out Wizard's Chest and said it was amazing! I assume this is a boob joke.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 16:10
|
|
|
Huh, Stonemaier wasted no time in getting the Scythe expansion ready, did they? http://stonemaiergames.com/games/scythe/scythe-invaders-from-afar/ In the factions list, it says that they'll come with cardboard tokens. Any idea what those could be for?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 16:43
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Huh, Stonemaier wasted no time in getting the Scythe expansion ready, did they? It's been in the works since before the KS even started IIRC.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 16:52
|
|
|
HOOLY BOOLY posted:I really,really want to play Captain Sonar but there's no way i'd be able to consistanly have enough people to have the fun chaotic version everybody is talking about I've never even played it 4P. 3P: three players play as normal. A dummy player throws 3 random orders out, and occupies the 2nd space on each order. This is relevant because the second space is often the best space. 2P: two players play as normal. There are two dummy players. 2 of the three orders are chosen at random. Each player then chooses a remaining order from the dummy players to play. So in essence, you can try to hate off the other player a bit more. Also, there are 3 adventurers, and one will get tossed away to a computer player that moves up one evil every time heroes are assigned. The game is still playable, and good if way more fiddly than it needs to be, with 2-3, but some of the tension is lost because the dummy players don't need resources. Let's say tax day is coming up in a 3P game; all three players can probably get on the gold spaces because the dummy will willing build tunnels or something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
Gutter Owl posted:The four roles: This sounds crazy in a good way - very useful writeup, thanks! The engineer's stuff seems a little weird - I knew there was something restricting movement but movement = damage thing is kind of strange. I love the SURFACE procedure though, that sounds like fun times.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Mister Sinewave posted:This sounds crazy in a good way - very useful writeup, thanks! It's necessary because it encourages the Captain to plan a route. But at high level play it lets the engineer predict the enemy's path because the subs are physically the same. If your opponent's 1st mate calls out "torpedo's loaded" but you know their torpedos are damaged until they move west which completes their circuits and repairs the torpedos, you know that you're safe until the enemy either surfaces and repairs all or they head west at which point you have a bunch of options available to you like surfacing (if you think you're opponent is on to you) or silent running which lets you move 1-5 spaces in a single direction.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:02
|
|
|
I get why it's like that. I don't really disagree with it, it just seems a little out of place because the other stations by comparison all - conveyance-wise - have more normal & thematically appropriate seeming jobs. The comms person does comms stuff and listens in to the other team's communications to try to narrow down where the enemy is, for example. If comms was like engineering they would like, lose a channel / have to plug ears/close eyes every time the sub went EAST because reasons.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
al-azad posted:What it loses in charm it makes up with added tension. You can track the game relatively easy so both captain's need to be aware of when they pull their next move. Weapons announces the missiles are ready for the enemy sub, but do they know where I am? Should I push ahead or surface or fire my own missile? There's the Tron Light Cycle thing going on where you can't cross over your path and having the perfect information of going back and forth leads to a game that's closer to the quiet tension of being in the CIC of a ship. Radio can confer with the captain on the best places to attack and engineer can discuss the best heading openly. It also means surfacing has more of a tactical advantage as the opponent will only ever get three moves. I think that pretty significantly changes the gameplay though, and not necessarily for the better. With perfect information and all the time in the world to think things through, I can't imagine it is very hard to stick to someone once you have them. Surfacing without the rush to finish completely kills the mechanic - rushing through the routine while the other team is barreling towards you while the radio operator tries to outline their section while tracking the other sub, its hectic and crazy and fun. I'm not really sure I'd enjoy the game turn based.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:In the factions list, it says that they'll come with cardboard tokens. Any idea what those could be for? Neither of the expansion factions' home bases are isolated by rivers like the others. Maybe the tokens are walls or barriers of some kind to balance that? Just a guess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:It's been in the works since before the KS even started IIRC. I remember hearing that there was a planned expansion for the two extra players - but I wasn't aware that it'd be released, what, less than half a year since the game's initial release? Medium Style posted:Neither of the expansion factions' home bases are isolated by rivers like the others. Maybe the tokens are walls or barriers of some kind to balance that? Just a guess. Hmm, that's a good point. Yeah, might be that (or, just tokens extra rivers or something created via dams or whatever that they get to place)
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:25
|
|
|
Nephzinho posted:I think that pretty significantly changes the gameplay though, and not necessarily for the better. With perfect information and all the time in the world to think things through, I can't imagine it is very hard to stick to someone once you have them. Surfacing without the rush to finish completely kills the mechanic - rushing through the routine while the other team is barreling towards you while the radio operator tries to outline their section while tracking the other sub, its hectic and crazy and fun. I'm not really sure I'd enjoy the game turn based. I'll attribute it to the game's strength that it works both ways but I find it completely the opposite. The thrill of conferring with the other officers perfectly captures that Star Trek/Red October feeling and every decision feels weighty like my next move could bring me one step closer to knowing where my opponent is but what if they know where I am? I lose that feeling of heaviness if my primary concern is shouting orders as fast as I can.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:In the factions list, it says that they'll come with cardboard tokens. Any idea what those could be for? Alternate abilities for 2 factions - one is Crimea's wayfare, not sure about the other
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 18:57
|
|
|
Deceptive Thinker posted:Alternate abilities for 2 factions - one is Crimea's wayfare, not sure about the other Nah that's different. That's this entry: "2 cardboard tokens to replace the Wayfare and Meander abilities in 6-7 player games". Each faction comes with four cardboard tokens, that's different.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Hmm, that's a good point. Yeah, might be that (or, just tokens extra rivers or something created via dams or whatever that they get to place) I was wrong. I just looked on BGG and there's some discussion about the tokens. Albion/green has "flag" tokens that their combat units can teleport to. Togawa/purple has "trap" tokens that look like they subtract power, popularity, money, or combat cards from enemies (which sounds like a bad idea to me). Someone mentioned that the new factions won't have the "speed" mech upgrade available, I guess that's how they balance the lack of rivers. Medium Style fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Nah that's different. That's this entry: "2 cardboard tokens to replace the Wayfare and Meander abilities in 6-7 player games". 4 flag tokens, 4 other tokens, probably for the new faction's abilities; based on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meeplesource/character-meeples-20-upgrade-your-gaming-experienc
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 19:09
|
|
|
My favorite part of the Scythe expansion announcement was Jamey Stegmaier saying including two more bits of cardboard would add $5 to the retail price.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:My favorite part of the Scythe expansion announcement was Jamey Stegmaier saying including two more bits of cardboard would add $5 to the retail price. I don't know anything about the expansion but it's not really an untrue statement. I'm sure a considerable amount of time goes into the logistical design especially with someone as close to the manufacturing process as he is. I wonder how many times a developer was approached by their publisher something like "You need to either remove 8 cards or add 44 new ones." I'm sure the veterans like Uwe Rosenberg are smart enough to design their games around the limitations of production. They probably know exactly how many cards of X size are printed together, how many counters of X size and shape fit on a single sheet, and how many little tokens you can safely stuff in a ziplock bag of X size.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
al-azad posted:They probably know exactly how many cards of X size are printed together 52 / 55 / 60 Don't really have to explain why.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
That would require knowing in advance how many games a publisher orders per print run. How full is the Scythe box, though? The statement sounds like bullshit if you're only considering the cost of the cardboard itself but if more cardboard = bigger box = higher shipping costs, then I don't know, maybe that number didn't actually come out of Jamey Stegmeier's rear end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:My favorite part of the Scythe expansion announcement was Jamey Stegmaier saying including two more bits of cardboard would add $5 to the retail price. Four bits and two plastic connectors
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
al-azad posted:I'll attribute it to the game's strength that it works both ways but I find it completely the opposite. The thrill of conferring with the other officers perfectly captures that Star Trek/Red October feeling and every decision feels weighty like my next move could bring me one step closer to knowing where my opponent is but what if they know where I am? I lose that feeling of heaviness if my primary concern is shouting orders as fast as I can. See, you don't need to shout orders as fast as you can. When my radio operator tells me "i know where they are" and "they're heading our way", I completely stopped moving for several turns and the other team was in such a hurry to move and charge systems faster that they didn't realize they were entering torpedo range / minefields as their radio operator tried to tell them "hey they're not moving this is probably really bad". Yes, sometimes you will need to go as quickly as possible to flee a nearby sub that knows where you are while you charge Silent, but for a lot of the game you want to move slower to ensure your systems are functioning properly and your radio operator can actually inform you of things. In other news, TIME Stories Prophecy of the Dragon was a really, really good expansion. The post-check point game was much, much easier than I expected as we managed to clear it in a single attempt despite being almost completely out of supplies/health, but this game really does seem to get better with every expansion. How is the egyptian one?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Nephzinho posted:See, you don't need to shout orders as fast as you can. When my radio operator tells me "i know where they are" and "they're heading our way", I completely stopped moving for several turns and the other team was in such a hurry to move and charge systems faster that they didn't realize they were entering torpedo range / minefields as their radio operator tried to tell them "hey they're not moving this is probably really bad". Yes, sometimes you will need to go as quickly as possible to flee a nearby sub that knows where you are while you charge Silent, but for a lot of the game you want to move slower to ensure your systems are functioning properly and your radio operator can actually inform you of things. But there is an impetus to go faster because that's how you charge systems and really I have all the space in the world to charge up everything while self-repairing before I bump into you. The breakdown of communication is fun in something cooperative like Space Team but in a head to head game it's not what I'm looking for. If you're sitting in one spot I'm just going to surface which ultimately gives me more information about your heading than it does mine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
Sonar sounds really cool (especially since my brother is in ROTC for subs) but it sounds like it needs a hard 8 people to play?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 21:12
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:Sonar sounds really cool (especially since my brother is in ROTC for subs) but it sounds like it needs a hard 8 people to play? 6 is fine because the Captain doubles as First Mate and their jobs mesh relatively well. But yes, 8 is all around the best.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
That game will be unique not just in gameplay but also in that it sits unopened not for lack of time but for lack of friends 
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Exactly eight is a weird number to work with.al-azad posted:6 is fine because the Captain doubles as First Mate and their jobs mesh relatively well. But yes, 8 is all around the best. I'll check it out then, although it still seems hard to manage
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 18:48 |
|
|
StashAugustine posted:Sonar sounds really cool (especially since my brother is in ROTC for subs) but it sounds like it needs a hard 8 people to play? SUSD's review says you can play with less and even switch to turn-based if you're at too few to handle it real-time, but 6 or 8 sound like the only worthwhile player counts.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 21:35
|
|
