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Bloody Hedgehog posted:That's not a thing. Hollywood has lied to me?
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Aug 29, 2016 06:05
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dmnz posted:Hollywood has lied to me? Pretty much. As long as your not knee deep in a pool, water isn't really a concern when working.
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Aug 29, 2016 06:15
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Lime Tonics posted:
spud posted:Look at how close the other houses were though. psssh those puny little gas explosions didn't even take out half of a neighborhood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4B7DYVL2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NrQ5B2mdkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrXtaWSw4AY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvtNVyGJ0H8      Large Explosion by jakepelk, on Flickr   _MG_4312 by jakepelk, on Flickr  Burned Home Debris, Plate 3, San Bruno Gas Line Explosion, 2010 by Thomas Hawk, on Flickr  San Bruno, California Fire - September 10, 2010 by Mark Brunig, on Flickr  You can see the crater created from the explosion at the top of this pic:  Some close ups on ground zero and the section of pipe launched out of the ground by the explosion:  SanBruno_23 by Kelly Huston, on Flickr  SanBruno_24 by Kelly Huston, on Flickr  SanBruno_14 by Kelly Huston, on Flickr before and after:  Glenview-Earl-SanBrunoFire by G Clark, on Flickr Basically, Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) is a poo poo company run by greedy poo poo people, who long ago decided they didn't need to properly build or maintain stuff or keep proper records. Among other things, they operate some 60+ year old gas pipelines on the San Francisco peninsula. One of these pipelines runs underneath the suburb of San Bruno, and a section of it had been replaced way back in 1956 to make room for a new road. The problem is, the replacement section didn't even meet the safety standards of the time, let alone modern safety standards. They only welded from the outside, instead of from both the outside and the inside, so the new section was loaded with seams that weren't 100% closed, which reduced the pressure rating. The new pipeline section was also made of low quality metal, and was of an unknown origin, and no pressure-testing had ever been done on it. To make matters worse, PG&E never updated their records to reflect that the pipeline was no longer seamless due to the welding work (let alone that the seams were lower quality than normal), and kept it classified as being a seamless pipeline (seamless pipelines can operate at higher pressures). And of course PG&E never installed auto cut off-valves on these pipelines. Let's fast forward half a century to 2010. One day PG&E was trying to repair some stuff at a nearby gas transmission station, and some equipment failed. Due to the lack of auto-shut-off valves, this led to the overpressurization of all the pipelines feeding into the station, including the aforementioned pipeline in San Bruno, which shot up to a pressure level never before seen (which was actually within limits for a seamless pipeline, which this one was supposed to be). It ruptured at the weak point where that section had been replaced in the 1950s, creating an explosion that launched part of the inferior garbage-quality pipe section out of the ground, followed by a massive 300' tall jet of fire that burned for an hour and a half, killing 8 people and injuring 58, destroying 38 homes, and damaging 70 more. The explosion knocked out the water main in the area, so firefighters didn't have access to water at first, and it also took PG&E an hour to finally shut the gas off, because the worker PG&E sent to investigate the explosion reports wasn't qualified to shut a pipeline off. So they just didn't do it, until some less retarded off-duty workers showed up and turned it off themselves. After that, the remaining gas in the pipeline burned for another half an hour. In total, 47 million cubic feet of natural gas was released and burned. PG&E was at fault obviously, and were later found to have committed 2,425 violations of safety rules in the years preceding the explosion. They were even found guilty of obstructing the investigation afterwards, and were investigated for judge-shopping and bribery, in regards to the case. It was also revealed that not only was PG&E constantly cutting corners, but the state and federal regulatory agencies that were supposed to ensure that PG&E was following regulations....well, they weren't doing their job as far as PG&E was concerned. Things basically seem to be a combination of corruption and ineptitude, all-around. So what consequences did PG&E face for all of this? Well, a jury found them guilty of a whole bunch of poo poo, and they were facing a giant fine of $1.14 billion, but then a judge reduced it to $562 million, and then it was mysteriously decided that the fine should only be $3 million instead (remember how PG&E was accused of shopping for judges and bribery?  ), which is so tiny that PG&E can fart it out without even noticing. And now PG&E is raising gas rates so that tl;dr: a utilities company hosed up and exploded one of their gas pipelines, due to cutting corners for over half a century, and due to regulatory agencies being inept and/or getting bribed to look the other way by said utilities company. The explosion/fire killed a bunch of people and destroyed a bunch of poo poo, and the utilities company got a slap on the wrist for it, and is now making extra money. And speaking of gas pipeline explosions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zveazwHM7Y4 
Rah! fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 07:45
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And back to worst OSHA practices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdDuHxwD5R4
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Aug 29, 2016 07:55
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Aug 29, 2016 08:59
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And if you ever want to tighten this poo poo up you are a communist.
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Aug 29, 2016 09:08
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SynthOrange posted:And back to worst OSHA practices: It seems like not even the firefighters knew that building was full of explosive chemicals either. They literally murdered those dudes. E: oh should have waited till the end where you find out that they weren't even violating OSHA or EPA regulations because there were none. Jesus. DR FRASIER KRANG fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Aug 29, 2016 |
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Aug 29, 2016 16:25
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The CSB is a rich source of this stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzdnUZReoLM I don't to speak ill of the dead, but the victims here seem as dumb as a literal bag of rocks.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:44
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spog posted:The CSB is a rich source of this stuff. Yeah with a gas leak you'd think they would tell them to get away from the tank right now. The amount of hemming and hawing by everyone involved was crazy.
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Aug 30, 2016 02:50
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spog posted:The CSB is a rich source of this stuff. Holy goddamn poo poo. How loving back water do you have to be to literally lock yourself inside a building with a propane leak and post a sign facing outward that says there's a propane leak in this building?!
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Aug 30, 2016 02:51
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This was posted in a previous thread and I remember thinking, how does nobody go "HOLY gently caress" and call an evacuation? I mean I get people are nervous and don't want to mess up a business but how no firefighter or EMT notices that propane was being dumped into the atmosphere for 30 mins and might be a potential hazard is beyond me.
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Aug 30, 2016 05:20
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CADPAT posted:This was posted in a previous thread and I remember thinking, how does nobody go "HOLY gently caress" and call an evacuation? I mean I get people are nervous and don't want to mess up a business but how no firefighter or EMT notices that propane was being dumped into the atmosphere for 30 mins and might be a potential hazard is beyond me.
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Aug 30, 2016 05:46
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Forget it, Jake. It's West Virginia.
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Aug 30, 2016 05:51
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CADPAT posted:This was posted in a previous thread and I remember thinking, how does nobody go "HOLY gently caress" and call an evacuation? I mean I get people are nervous and don't want to mess up a business but how no firefighter or EMT notices that propane was being dumped into the atmosphere for 30 mins and might be a potential hazard is beyond me. "Close the Store, gas leak" "Okay the Store is closed. We put up a sign that there's a gas leak" *All 4 employees still around despite closed store with gas leak*
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Aug 30, 2016 05:58
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I continue to not understand how poo poo like this keeps happening. Like, there's lights, and noise, and a bar that comes down, and even if there weren't, the train can only really come at you from so many directions.
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Aug 30, 2016 06:05
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Azathoth posted:I can see the folks in the store not understanding the seriousness, because the propane technician was there the whole time and didn't have the good sense to get away himself, which would then be reinforced when the fire department and EMTs also showed up and didn't seem to be concerned about evacuating either. I would bet that the employees all thought that if it was dangerous, they wouldn't all be standing around gawking at it like it was a broke-down car on the side of the highway. How none of the first responders thought getting good distance away was prudent is something I'll never understand. Agreed, this one is totally on the heads of the first responders. As for the employees in the shop, well, people tend to react the way that the people around them are reacting. If one person starts to panic, everyone panics, but the opposite can happen too. I could easily see all of the employees thinking: "Whoa, there's gas leaking? Yeah, it sure stinks in here, and I've heard that there can be explosions and stuff when this happens, but come on, life isn't an action movie. And anyway, no one else seems worried. This is just an incident to write down in the shift log. The fire guys said to close the store, so okay, we've locked the door and put up a sign. But we aren't supposed to leave during our work hours, and I'm sure as hell not getting fired for being the only scaredy-cat. If it was dangerous, someone would say so. So let's just stay here until they fix it and say we can open the store again." Yes, in hindsight it's easy to see how fatally stupid that is. But let's be honest, I think that way sometimes, and so do you.
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Aug 30, 2016 06:31
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Rah! posted:
That one wasn't a gas pipeline explosion per se, rather there was a propene (yes, it's spelled like that - also known as propylene or methyl ethylene) leak into the sewer system. The leaking 4" pipe was shut down approximately 16 minutes before the first explosion (but almost 4 hours after the leak started apparently). In the first hour of the leak, 3.77 tons of propene were lost from the pipe. That particular gas has managed to kill pretty spectacularly before the disaster in Korea too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Alfaques_disaster quote:The Los Alfaques disaster was a road accident and tanker explosion which occurred on 11 July 1978 in Alcanar, near Tarragona, in Spain. The tanker truck was loaded with 23 tons of highly flammable liquefied propylene. 217 people (including the driver) were killed and 200 more severely burned. The OSHA part is pretty severe: quote:The tank container was manufactured at 13 December 1973 by a workshop from Bilbao,[11] and at that time it did not meet the requirements for carrying flammable liquids, since it lacked emergency pressure release valves. Therefore, the tank had been used to carry other substances, some of which were highly corrosive. Tests on the remnants of the steel tank revealed microscopic stress cracks consistent with corrosion caused by previous loads of improperly overpressurized anhydrous ammonia. Combined with whether the tanker suffered an impact that caused additional structural damage, these factors likely led to the almost instantaneous rupture of the tank when the flames flashed back into the tanker. Even without safety valves, a structurally sound and properly filled tanker should have been able to maintain structural integrity in a fire long enough to at least allow nearby people to escape. The tanker was also severely overloaded, which was apparently common practice. quote:The Tarragona facility lacked either a meter to measure the amount of gas dispensed or an automatic shut-off device to prevent overfilling, and consequently most tanks were consistently overloaded. You probably don't want to do much Google image searching on this one, it's all aftermath photo's and lots of them are of the bodies.
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Aug 30, 2016 06:43
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Sure it was stupid, but they dont have anything to worry about for the rest of their lives.
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Aug 30, 2016 06:49
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spog posted:The CSB is a rich source of this stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_FPnw3KmRc
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Aug 30, 2016 09:51
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spog posted:The CSB is a rich source of this stuff. Maybe they where suffering from slight hypoxia. It sucks that we don't have O2 sensors built in. If you're low on O2 but you haven't got an increase in CO2, such as you're breathing in Methane or Helium, you feel perfectly fine until you suddenly collapse. Hypoxia rapidly results in "unable to have good ideas" quickly followed by "unable to have ideas" and I don't mean because you're dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MI9UiYwJA There was one of those animated 'what happened' videos about 2 workers standing in a shed that processed animal poop. One of them said 'do you smell something bad?' and I was like "OH MAYBE ITS THE LITERAL ROOM OF poo poo YOU'RE IN??" Then they suffocated to death. Does anyone else remember that thread?
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Aug 30, 2016 12:12
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That happened to a bunch of people working at a mushroom farm here. Three died, except the fate of two others was arguably worse, in that they didn't die but ended up with profound brain damage and are now drooling, moaning, wheelchair bound husks. It was one of the situations too where three guys succumbed, and then people kept going in to rescue them and the shed just kept turning each new person into a zombie. In the end the owners got no jail time and a $350k fine. Great, wonderful. Some poor schlub trying to earn his minimum wage at a poo poo job is rendered a vegetable because the owners didn't give a gently caress about the endless safety issues at their farm. 
Bloody Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 12:29
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Here's something from my own apartment complex. The owners have been doing some repainting and repairs around the whole place, and they've been using this cherry-picker to do so. The thing's been in a different parking spot every time I come home. Yesterday I saw this: http://imgur.com/a/SEYJZ   Seems totally safe, right?
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Aug 30, 2016 12:58
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Ak Gara posted:It sucks that we don't have O2 sensors built in. If you're low on O2 but you haven't got an increase in CO2, such as you're breathing in Methane or Helium, you feel perfectly fine until you suddenly collapse. There's a whole ton of videos on youtube of people "failing the helium challenge" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrDo0tmQs2Y
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Aug 30, 2016 13:20
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Ak Gara posted:Maybe they where suffering from slight hypoxia.
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Aug 30, 2016 14:06
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Green Intern posted:Here's something from my own apartment complex. The owners have been doing some repainting and repairs around the whole place, and they've been using this cherry-picker to do so. The thing's been in a different parking spot every time I come home. Yesterday I saw this: Yeah I mean he's got cones out and everything. This is totally fine.
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Aug 30, 2016 14:08
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"Don't go home. If they fix it we will re-open the store."
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Aug 30, 2016 14:16
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 I know the squeeze is a real thing and you can even find a video of it (mythbusters+pig), and the book I'm taking this from refers to actual incidents, although in a very abridged form. But how can a difference of 40 feet do it? It's a little over 1 extra atmosphere.
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Aug 30, 2016 14:18
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Another way of looking at it is that 1 atmosphere is the difference between sea level, and hard vacuum.
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Aug 30, 2016 14:27
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vacuum doesn't make you explode like in movies though
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Aug 30, 2016 14:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RLOo6bchU
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Aug 30, 2016 14:38
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Ak Gara posted:Maybe they where suffering from slight hypoxia. There was controlled hypoxia demonstration on the smarter every day channel if anyone is interested in seeing the idiocy progression https://youtu.be/kUfF2MTnqAw
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Aug 30, 2016 15:21
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:That happened to a bunch of people working at a mushroom farm here. Three died, except the fate of two others was arguably worse, in that they didn't die but ended up with profound brain damage and are now drooling, moaning, wheelchair bound husks. It was one of the situations too where three guys succumbed, and then people kept going in to rescue them and the shed just kept turning each new person into a zombie. Oh, poo poo, is this the result of this incident? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4-G08myaz4 Somehow this stuck in my head for being such a lovely way to go (no pun intended), and all for some mushrooms.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:29
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Grim Up North posted:Oh, poo poo, is this the result of this incident? Yep, that's the incident. The owner was even trying to get the fine dismissed. Christ, what an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:57
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SelenicMartian posted:
There are 14 pounds of pressure on each square inch of the suit, pressing it inward. That's far more than enough to crush a person. In space, the difference is that it's really only the gas in your lungs and dissolved in your blood that's exerting the pressure, and it pretty quickly exits through your orifices without destroying your body too bad.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:57
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I don't think its the 14 psi all over your body that's the issue. Afterall, the entire thing preventing the squeeze is some multiple of amtospheric pressure holding your gear rigid and necessarily pressing down on your body as well. Its the 14 psi differential across the ocean and the tiny airhose, with your body in between the two. A household vacuum cleaner is about a differential of 3 psi for reference and if you've ever latched it on to a circle of flesh you know its not every pleasant. Compare to space, where you might have a 14psi differential at first, but it quickly literally deflates itself. Where in the ocean case, if you give an inch, there's a billion more miles of ocean willing to take its place. e. If you look at it like a piston problem, you have 14 psi pushing on your body's surface area. That's about 183 kN, but all spread out over some 2 square meters of body. If you try to stick all 2 square meters of body into a quarter inch hole with 183 kN of force, the itty bit of your head that hits the hole first is seeing something like 210000 psi. zedprime fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 00:15
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zedprime posted:I don't think its the 14 psi all over your body that's the issue. Afterall, the entire thing preventing the squeeze is some multiple of amtospheric pressure holding your gear rigid and necessarily pressing down on your body as well. I guess I didn't phrase that clearly, yes I mean that there is a 14psi difference, because your suit, once the air pump fails, is at 1 atmosphere and the water around you is at 2. And that 14 pounds difference times the surface area of your suit results in thousands of pounds of force pushing towards the low pressure zone. In this case, the air tube at the top of your helmet. I remember reading in a different book that the squeeze would occasionally strip flesh and push it up the air tube. This stuff, and accounts of cave diving accidents make me perfectly happy to stay within 10ft of the surface.
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Aug 31, 2016 00:22
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Comcast guy across the street: No cones, it's starting to get dark, and I'm not sure he attached his harness to anything.
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Aug 31, 2016 00:30
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Alpine Mustache posted:Comcast guy across the street: did I just get  'd?
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Aug 31, 2016 01:01
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A Man With A Plan posted:I guess I didn't phrase that clearly, yes I mean that there is a 14psi difference, because your suit, once the air pump fails, is at 1 atmosphere and the water around you is at 2. And that 14 pounds difference times the surface area of your suit results in thousands of pounds of force pushing towards the low pressure zone. In this case, the air tube at the top of your helmet. Alternately, dive 10' deep in a backyard pool and try to draw a breath through a hose extending up to the surface. Doesn't work very well.
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Aug 31, 2016 01:06
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zedprime posted:e. If you look at it like a piston problem, you have 14 psi pushing on your body's surface area. That's about 183 kN, but all spread out over some 2 square meters of body. If you try to stick all 2 square meters of body into a quarter inch hole with 183 kN of force, the itty bit of your head that hits the hole first is seeing something like 210000 psi. No, not even close. 14psi over a 1/4" hole is 2.75lbs of force. 15 psi across the neck hole could be quite a bit though. e- they said 135psi, so like 300ft down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8 jamal fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 01:10
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