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I don't think a trained slinger is gonna crack their skull open, but still, one of the main advantages of slings is that they're cheap as poo poo, whereas cavalry were generally a rich man's game. Why would you be sitting there on your gleaming horse with a lovely sling when you could have something cool instead.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:08
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Koramei posted:I don't think a trained slinger is gonna crack their skull open, but still, one of the main advantages of slings is that they're cheap as poo poo, whereas cavalry were generally a rich man's game. Why would you be sitting there on your gleaming horse with a lovely sling when you could have something cool instead. Well if you are on a horse you are obviously an idiot so you bring a sling because you're dumb. If you were smart you would be a smug fearless infantry coolguy.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:13
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The physical limitations of your weapon are important to consider. If a likely end-state of using a weapon in a certain way is "disaster", nobody is going to pick it up. Slings weren't just "okay", they used to have longer ranges than bows. Koramei posted:I don't think a trained slinger is gonna crack their skull open, but still, one of the main advantages of slings is that they're cheap as poo poo, whereas cavalry were generally a rich man's game. Why would you be sitting there on your gleaming horse with a lovely sling when you could have something cool instead. I found some people saying (without sourcing anything) that Tibetans used slings on horseback, because as nomads even poorer people were mounted, and they lived in a wood-poor area.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:15
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The physical limitations of your weapon are important to consider. If a likely end-state of using a weapon in a certain way is "disaster", nobody is going to pick it up. Koramei posted:I don't think a trained slinger is gonna crack their skull open, but still, one of the main advantages of slings is that they're cheap as poo poo, whereas cavalry were generally a rich man's game. Why would you be sitting there on your gleaming horse with a lovely sling when you could have something cool instead. I guess it could be useful for harassment, but yeah it's probably not the most valuable way to use a horse. Mostly I'm just curious to see if anyone ever actually tried it back in the days before horse archers cornered the market. Mounted men with javelins was a thing for a while, but at least you can use that as a short lance if you need to. Thanks for the link Hogge Wild.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:22
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it seems to me like the kind of person who could afford a horse would also be able to afford "real" weapons
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Aug 30, 2016 20:24
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Hogge Wild posted:Horses eat like horses, so keeping large cavalry formations on non-steppes is extremely expensive. Yeah. I just mean in general there's a positive feedback loop in agriculture when it comes to draft animals. Anything that you can't make power harvesting and whose dung you're not recycling however is pure luxury. Which is of course why rich people often are associated with cavalry.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:38
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the horse was so good it eventually evolved into the mecha-horse; the tank.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:18
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Slings are pretty boss, as mentioned until they invented better bow technology, slings were by far the more effective weapon at range. Turns out lovely wooden self bows aren't actually very good at throwing arrows very far. Especially if you make proper lead bullets for them, slings will gently caress you up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzDMCVdPwnE
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Aug 30, 2016 21:23
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HEY GAL posted:hi rodrigo diaz, i am that infantryman Very brave of you to say that when you have never done it & also quail at the thought of Dagger Critique. Hogge Wild posted:Horses eat like horses, so keeping large cavalry formations on non-steppes is extremely expensive. That depends on how you define "large" and "formations". Keeping maybe 800 horsemen on pay, dispersed through a system of castles, is not expensive. Keeping 5000 horsemen in a single campaigning host, on pay? Extremely expensive, yes, but still achievable. The use of feudal service lowers costs even more, albeit only temporarily. Slim Jim Pickens posted:I have no idea why it would be worthwhile either. Slings are just "okay" and you can't really scale them up. You can, that's what staff slings (or, if you want to get really nit-picky, trebuchets) are. I agree though that slings are generally a lamer alternative to bows
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Aug 30, 2016 22:12
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Very brave of you to say that when you have never done it & also quail at the thought of Dagger Critique. quote:That depends on how you define "large" and "formations". Keeping maybe 800 horsemen on pay, dispersed through a system of castles, is not expensive. Keeping 5000 horsemen in a single campaigning host, on pay? Extremely expensive, yes, but still achievable.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:36
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HEY GAL posted:do the people you study, uh, actually pay the dudes? wow Most of the time, yes.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:50
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Most of the time, yes.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:52
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Hey you two, Question - I got to handle a replica Zweihander the other day. The guy who was talking about its use said it would be used against pike formations in sweeping strikes. However, the zweihander was a little over 5 foot long. Pikes are a lot longer... so how does that work ?
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Aug 30, 2016 22:53
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Saint Celestine posted:Hey you two, Question -
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Aug 30, 2016 22:54
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Koramei posted:I don't think a trained slinger is gonna crack their skull open, but still, one of the main advantages of slings is that they're cheap as poo poo, whereas cavalry were generally a rich man's game. Why would you be sitting there on your gleaming horse with a lovely sling when you could have something cool instead. Is there any truth to the notion that slings were also more of something that you could expect your average Mediterranean peasant to be relatively skilled with? The version I heard is that they were a handy thing for farmers, goat herders, etc to keep pesky wildlife at bay with and since you didn't need much to make one they were pretty ubiquitous. Something that you can make yourself in an afternoon and that bored herders can use to entertain themselves with by throwing rocks at tree stumps is going to be a more common skill than one that requires expensive equipment to master. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 22:55
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HEY GAL posted:what a strange practice Do you have to pay people when they die in battle/on campaign? If not, was there ever a General who deliberately accepted a costly battle so that he wouldn't have to pay his guys as much/at all?
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Aug 30, 2016 22:56
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ArchangeI posted:Do you have to pay people when they die in battle/on campaign? If not, was there ever a General who deliberately accepted a costly battle so that he wouldn't have to pay his guys as much/at all? Are suggesting that some of HEY GAL's might have been engaged in fraud? They'd take you to court for such an offense.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:01
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Saint Celestine posted:Hey you two, Question - I hope you weren't looking to buy it because theres a 90% chance it was trash. Two-handed swords were used to defend the banner, chiefly, because (according to montante treatises) they can defend against multiple weapons at once. Cyrano4747 posted:Is there any truth to the notion that slings were also more of something that you could expect your average Mediterranean peasant to be relatively skilled with? The version I heard is that they were a handy thing for farmers, goat herders, etc to keep pesky wildlife at bay with and since you didn't need much to make one they were pretty ubiquitous. Something that you can make yourself in an afternoon and that bored headsmen can use to entertain themselves with by throwing rocks at tree stumps is going to be a more common skill than one that requires expensive equipment to master. Yeah, I'm pretty sure diodorus mentions it. It's come up in a number of secondary sources, but I haven't looked at diodorus or ptolemy or thucydides in so long I couldn't be sure.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:01
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No I was not buying replica weapons. But they had quite a large variety of medieval weapons, and apparently there was a reenactment group showing them off. Got to play around with a halberd, variety of maces, and some swords.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:03
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Saint Celestine posted:No I was not buying replica weapons. But they had quite a large variety of medieval weapons, and apparently there was a reenactment group showing them off. Got to play around with a halberd, variety of maces, and some swords. 90% of stuff you will hear from a person selling any kind historical weapons is bullshit, either through ignorance, a desire to drum up a sale, or both.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:06
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pity that you fixed that magnificient typo i think that bored headsmen would have been more inventive than throwing rocks
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Aug 30, 2016 23:08
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ArchangeI posted:Do you have to pay people when they die in battle/on campaign? If not, was there ever a General who deliberately accepted a costly battle so that he wouldn't have to pay his guys as much/at all? remember, you're hemorrhaging dudes anyway, because attrition rates are so nuts even compared to 100 years later, and 18th century soldiers still desert a lot. a surplus of soldiers is the opposite of your problem. if you don't want to pay them, just embezzle from them and gently caress with the books.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:09
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Saint Celestine posted:Hey you two, Question - I believe the notion is that you spin it round like the star wars kid and the pikes just get knocked out of the way while you walk into the enemy pike formation. I think personally you'd have more luck dazzling them with your sick sword moves and they just rout right there because they can't step to your dope rhythm. Alterntively use the weapon skill to do the stomp them follow up with the strong attack and knock the pikeman ten feet into the air with your hyper armour during the final frames of the move. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 23:10
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:I hope you weren't looking to buy it because theres a 90% chance it was trash.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:10
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HEY GAL posted:and because the montante looks loving sick I think I'd have to at least wait until the guy using it has finished his katas because I want to see where he's going with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNy_drriXs
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Aug 30, 2016 23:16
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how many bears would it take to beat a tiger ii
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Aug 30, 2016 23:18
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Hogge Wild posted:pity that you fixed that magnificient typo Don't worry, Rodrigo preserved it for posterity.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:20
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Cocksmith posted:how many bears would it take to beat a tiger ii 0, the tiger will break down before it reaches the Bears
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Aug 30, 2016 23:21
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I don't know about peasants vs not, but I do know some places were known for their slingers. The Balearic Islands were especially famous for them and Hannibal actually had a group of them in his army. Also iirc slings outranged bows for a very long time until archery technology advanced enough to obsolete them.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:21
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Elyv posted:I don't know about peasants vs not, but I do know some places were known for their slingers. The Balearic Islands were especially famous for them and Hannibal actually had a group of them in his army. Also iirc slings outranged bows for a very long time until archery technology advanced enough to obsolete them. most importantly, if you need to write a rude message on an arrow you need a little paintbrush and a lot of time, but to write a rude message on your sling bullet all you need is a pocketknife, if it's lead
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Aug 30, 2016 23:24
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HEY GAL posted:most importantly, if you need to write a rude message on an arrow you need a little paintbrush and a lot of time, but to write a rude message on your sling bullet all you need is a pocketknife, if it's lead "We train young men to drop Greek fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "gently caress" on their sling stones because it's obscene"
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Aug 30, 2016 23:32
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Cocksmith posted:how many bears would it take to beat a tiger ii one, at sufficient velocity.
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Aug 31, 2016 00:54
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so how did one beat a tercio/pike square/wha'evz back in the day
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Aug 31, 2016 01:36
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V. Illych L. posted:so how did one beat a tercio/pike square/wha'evz back in the day Guns, cavalry, a swiss pike square.
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Aug 31, 2016 01:45
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V. Illych L. posted:so how did one beat a tercio/pike square/wha'evz back in the day Squares are just asking for artillery to pound on them.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:15
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Sit on a fortification and yell swear words at them.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:18
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V. Illych L. posted:so how did one beat a tercio/pike square/wha'evz back in the day As the other answers suggest, the is no one set "way". It's just a question of tactics. You could break into them with rodeleros or halberdiers and follow up with your own pikemen, you could hit them with well armored cavalry (or just hit them in the flanks) you could blast them apart with cannons, whittle them down with handheld ranged weapons, etc. Lots of ways. Edit: This is one of the more confounding things with the way people think about military history (not that you are necessarily guilty of it, it's just a general trend). Tactics are not limited to bashing guys against each other like action figures. Human ingenuity is vast and capable. Additionally, tactics always work within a strategic context. Another way to beat a pike block is to never fight it at all and just steal or burn all the food near by it, or let its paymasters go broke and watch it mutiny. War isn't a series of pitched battles on a perfectly flat plain where it's temperate and sunny all the time. Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 02:34
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V. Illych L. posted:so how did one beat a tercio/pike square/wha'evz back in the day an m60
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Aug 31, 2016 02:40
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Hogge Wild posted:And as for generals: I'm still 2 pages behind, but THANKS for reminding me about this righteous dude.
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Aug 31, 2016 03:32
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He was crossing the Swiss Alps in risky far away campaigns before Napoleon made it cool in the modern era.
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Aug 31, 2016 03:39
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