|
hyphz posted:Fair enough. I was kind of confused by the section in Dangerous Delves which states the GM should design the "dungeon" in advance. So there are either guards behind the door or there aren't, regardless of how well or badly you pick the lock. If it is intended to be flexible in this way then what does the GM design? There's a mantra in dungeon world. "Draw maps, leave gaps." Your dungeon map can be loose. You can stat some appropriate baddies and say "room may have baddies", but the details are flexible. If you've got some fun setpiece ideas then that's the cool bit and the actual where and what of each part of the dungeon can be mushy.
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 09:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
Hey all, playtesting again tonight. Same drill, first two people to post get in. If you don't have PMs put your email address in your post so I can contact you there. Starts at 9 pm EST, level 5, please have characters ready to go and try to show up 15-20 minutes early to make tokens/macros if you can.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 21:31
|
|
|
I'm game. Email is the_densetsu@yahoo.com; will there be voice?
DeadReed fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Aug 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 22:28
|
|
|
There will not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2016 22:36
|
|
|
Bought this game recently but haven't played it, yet. Just reading through it and I really like all the advice given in the Team Monster section.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 04:52
|
|
|
 New version of the playtest classes is up!What's changed? - A loving lot. Every class changed. Some a bit, others a ton. - It's also all nice looking now with proper powers and should be MUCH easier to parse everything. - There's yet another class! Get your Berserker action on! (The Berserker was written by some nice German folks, and I'll be buying it from them to publish. I'll just go ask them how they want to be credited for it and edit it in that credit here.) The way I'd put it is the first document was an alpha and this is a beta. It's also more public and less by-request now, since it's now a lot more accessible than it was, simply in terms of how the powers are laid out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 05:58
|
|
|
Need to take the time to look through this more later but every at-will melody (action, haste, sloth) I was using on my Bard I was playing got nerfed, as well as one of my at-will Chords (freedom). And the ones I liked next best. That's impressive. E: One of my player took one look at the nerfed Lets End This Quickly and immediately changed it out." I was mostly interested in it for the super-Advantage, with the possible save-or-die being a bonus. Having to pick the target ahead of time and only having standard advantage on them is much less attractive." Surprised the encounters at LV 1 for the Lurker made it over unchanged. E2: Armor Up on the Engineer seems kind of worthless now because it only helps one ally for an attack power, and it can't even help the Defender or the Lurker in Defensive at all. Also, nothing on Springboard saying you can't use it with a Micromachines turret if it's stuck to you, which honestly was something I didn't like when I was told it worked that way in a playtest. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Aug 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 09:29
|
|
|
Is there anywhere that a miss or strike token is actually shown, or any suggestions for things to use? I was considering poker chips if I can find any of them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 12:58
|
|
|
Cassa posted:Is there anywhere that a miss or strike token is actually shown, or any suggestions for things to use? I was considering poker chips if I can find any of them. If you're in for a little more, I really like my set of Penny Gems. They're nice because they've got two obvious sides and they're stackable. The shapes also denote numbers, so I like to use them to mark off my spell slots in a 5e game I'm playing. Otherwise yeah, poker chips are a great all-around token. If you get the nice ones they've got a nice heft, and it feels a lot more dramatic slapping one of those down for an action point or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 14:14
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:
That Berserker makes clever use of existing game mechanics. I like it!
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 14:33
|
|
|
gourdcaptain posted:Need to take the time to look through this more later but every at-will melody (action, haste, sloth) I was using on my Bard I was playing got nerfed, as well as one of my at-will Chords (freedom). And the ones I liked next best. That's impressive. Thanks, I didn't notice how much Count had nerfed Armor Up (or maybe wasn't thinking about it right when he told me), and you're right that it's too weak right now. We'll find something better. Bard really needs more playtesting in general. I think I've narrowed down the range on its powers so they are closer to one another in terms of power, but I still don't really know if the class as a whole is balanced well with other classes. The main change for the Lurker was to try to limit the amount of shenanigans you could get up to by using the Level 2 Encounter Powers to spend all your time in defensive form while making most of your attacks from aggressive. Also an easy-to-miss change was that you must start in Defensive Form. Having played a Lurker in a couple of playtests, I really liked the basic form-switching mechanics, but thought that the Level 2 Encounter Powers tended to undermine the strategy of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 16:00
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:Thanks, I didn't notice how much Count had nerfed Armor Up (or maybe wasn't thinking about it right when he told me), and you're right that it's too weak right now. We'll find something better. Huh, and I thought the point of the Lurker skillwise was managing it so you kept yourself in aggressive on your turn as much as possible and in defensive as much as possible off your turn. And that was a lot of fun for me and the Lurker player to manage. On the Bard, while I kept Sloth and Haste (even though I grumbled about the change to haste, I can see it as probably not a bad change) i immediately retrained Action for Movement. Movement's a flat out better well, movement enabler then Action, and without Role Boosts now the Action Riff is too frustrating to be worth it. (Having to position it so both the ally and target are the closest to you is a tricky exercise involving a lot of the Roll 20 ruler tool, and then having to clear it with the ally and get them to roll.) Also, without role boosts it's just 2/3 damage to one target with a 1/6 chance of a Strike, and a boring attack at that. Also didn't think it was too exceptionally out of the Ordinary, even before this it was a weaker more restricted version of the Warlords Hit this Guy. Also dropped Chord of Freedom like a hot potato for Chord of Weakening because even though the Alpha version has some absurd Iron Heart Surge shenanigans you could get up to with it, ending only EoNT effects means it may or may not come up in a given fight based on enemy composition and that's too big of a risk when you only have two at will chord slots at low levels. Although it still has some potential based on DM calls to be absurd with the Battle Trance berserker's delayed damage. (Side note: After the last session I ended up retaining out Melody of Endurance, the LV 1 encounter group heal and taking Riff of Healing at LV 2 because Healing felt too awkward to actually use when the DM is going fully for focused fire since in a lot of fights I couldn't even get 2/3 efficiency out of it in terms of non-waisted healing before we were about to win anyway. Also, how does the Bard Group Mascot type that refreshes Role Encounter Powers work at LV 1?) Edit: How do the Channeler's new at-wills for square detonation interact with a Blaster? If they need to be interacting with the square in specific ways, AoE's shouldn't hit enemies not doing that, but what about regular Multitarget Boost spreading damage and the effect line? Edit2: Does forcing the Lurker to start in Defensive have the D&D shroud assassin problem of front loaded damage being more useful as an issue? gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 17:01
|
|
|
Squire looks a lot better at a quick glance. More reliable, less bookkeeping, and the addition of a bunch of Miss Token effects gives it a lot more thematic coherence. The class features all look equally (very) appealing. Looking forward to playing with it again!
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
gourdcaptain posted:Huh, and I thought the point of the Lurker skillwise was managing it so you kept yourself in aggressive on your turn as much as possible and in defensive as much as possible off your turn. And that was a lot of fun for me and the Lurker player to manage. And yeah the must start in defensive was because starting in aggressive gives you some really strong alpha-strike power in round 1. quote:On the Bard, while I kept Sloth and Haste (even though I grumbled about the change to haste, I can see it as probably not a bad change) i immediately retrained Action for Movement. Movement's a flat out better well, movement enabler then Action, and without Role Boosts now the Action Riff is too frustrating to be worth it. (Having to position it so both the ally and target are the closest to you is a tricky exercise involving a lot of the Roll 20 ruler tool, and then having to clear it with the ally and get them to roll.) Also, without role boosts it's just 2/3 damage to one target with a 1/6 chance of a Strike, and a boring attack at that. Also didn't think it was too exceptionally out of the Ordinary, even before this it was a weaker more restricted version of the Warlords Hit this Guy. quote:
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 17:45
|
|
|
Hey, dunno if anyone else will find this useful, but I indexed the new playtest PDF so there's an index entry for each class/role/thing in there. https://www.dropbox.com/s/nx29rth7yawr1ue/Strike%20Expansion%20-%20Playtest%20Material%20%28BETA%20Indexed%29.pdf?dl=0 I pretty much need those to be able to reference it well during play, so might as well share the result.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
I'll answer more questions in depth later (about to head out), but I noticed the Squire's "Your Fight Is With Us" power is listed as Ranged, but has no specific range. It's Ranged 10. Also as a note to myself, I'll probably change "I Know Their Habits" to hand out Advice tokens on the Errand's turn rather than the Squire's since otherwise there's a decent chance one won't be available for the first round, especially since the Squire boosts the starting Errand's initiative.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
Evoker's Ray Evocation: "Draw a line from the center of your square to the center of the target’s. Make an Elemental Attack on each square the line passes through until you hit a creature or reach an obstacle." By "hit", does this mean that if you miss you keep on going?
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 03:28
|
|
|
gourdcaptain posted:Evoker's Ray Evocation: "Draw a line from the center of your square to the center of the target’s. Make an Elemental Attack on each square the line passes through until you hit a creature or reach an obstacle." By "hit", does this mean that if you miss you keep on going? I don't actually see how you could read "keep going until you hit something or reach an obstacle" any other way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 03:55
|
|
|
gourdcaptain posted:Evoker's Ray Evocation: "Draw a line from the center of your square to the center of the target’s. Make an Elemental Attack on each square the line passes through until you hit a creature or reach an obstacle." By "hit", does this mean that if you miss you keep on going? Yeah, if you can line bad guys up, you can give your attack a kind of insurance; miss the first guy and you'll have a chance at the next. Note also that any Terrain your Elements make will appear in every square you attack, so you can draw a line of steam clouds or oil slicks or whatever across the field.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2016 05:11
|
|
|
In regards to Channeler's Tornado (and throws in general), what state are the enemies in upon landing? Do they land prone (or perhaps make a save to see whether they would land prone)? It seemed a little odd for enemies to be swept up, damaged and flung five squares by a tornado but land on their feet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2016 23:28
|
|
|
Some powers like that specifically say "...and then knock it Prone," so I imagine they stay standing. Monsters are very nimble. e: If you try to toss them into dangerous terrain they can end up Prone of course.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
Ghostpilot posted:In regards to Channeler's Tornado (and throws in general), what state are the enemies in upon landing? Do they land prone (or perhaps make a save to see whether they would land prone)? It seemed a little odd for enemies to be swept up, damaged and flung five squares by a tornado but land on their feet. Standing. Adding prone would drastically change the power level of that power - and put it outside of at-will territory.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 04:31
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:Standing. Adding prone would drastically change the power level of that power - and put it outside of at-will territory. But it's an encounter power. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:07
|
|
|
Ghostpilot posted:But it's an encounter power. Oops, sorry, I got confused on the names. I thought you were referring to their new At-Will. Regardless, unless it says they go Prone, they don't. (Though now that you mention it, I am considering adding a save or prone to it. Need to do the math on that and see how strong it'd be, and make sure it doesn't make other powers look bad. Getting a bunch of people prone isn't necessarily THAT strong compared to getting just one prone if your main goal is to let your allies make melee attacks with Advantage.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2016 05:30
|
|
|
Again with the really specific questions: The Necromancer's Mark of Death activates when you hit an enemy with an attack and deal damage. I'm mainly interested in how this interacts with the Blaster's abilities, mainly Multitarget Boost (when you forgo turning your attack into a zone) and Consistent Attack. My reading is that these two circumstances don't count as making an attack, so as such neither of them could be used to give your Mark of Death to an enemy. On a related note, the Striker dealing +1 damage on a 2 makes for a strange gray area. I assume a roll of 2 means that everything else that would happen on a miss (i.e. getting a miss token, activating your miss trigger, etc.) happens but you still deal 1 point of damage to the enemy. However, what happens when a Striker rolls a 3 and chooses to apply the Effect of the attack instead of damage? Do they still deal 1 point of damage to the enemy, on top of the Effect? And this leads to Melee Shooter: it says that you deal 1 extra damage on a hit, which once again brings up rolling a 3 on an attack. When a character with Melee Shooter rolls a 3 on an attack and chooses to apply the Effect instead of damage, do they still deal 1 point of damage? The difference in phrasing might be the key here: the Striker's damage boost is a flat +1 to damage on a roll of 2 to 5, whereas the Melee Shooter feat is expressed as 1 extra damage on a hit, which might carry an assumption that it only adds to damage if you're already dealing damage? All of this might have been clarified in the past already, but I wasn't around for the previous thread so I might've missed it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2016 08:00
|
|
|
Ratpick posted:The Necromancer's Mark of Death activates when you hit an enemy with an attack and deal damage. I'm mainly interested in how this interacts with the Blaster's abilities, mainly Multitarget Boost (when you forgo turning your attack into a zone) and Consistent Attack. My reading is that these two circumstances don't count as making an attack, so as such neither of them could be used to give your Mark of Death to an enemy. I actually asked about the former earlier in the thread. Per Jimbozig, only the enemy you hit gets the Mark of Death. I would assume Consistent Attack works the same way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2016 14:15
|
|
|
Played my first session tonight as the new version of the Bard. It worked, although the new Melody of Haste is a bit of a pain on roll20 since you have to sort it a new way for a round, and then change it back to enemies being first on ties the next. One issue I have is it feels like you should get a third at-will Chord at some time - most of them are to some degree situational (well, except for stuff like the Weaken chord, but I didn't take that due to it overlapping with the Controller in the party) and I feel like I can't take some of the cooler ones like Expansion or the one that ends End of Next Turn status effects because I'm not sure they'll be relevant in all fights and I'd like to use my role actions as much as possible. (Chord of Repositioning is still gold). Melody of Endurance is both amazing as a LV 1 encounter (potentially 10 HP healed in 5 person party) but frustrating for me because if someone's gravely injured (by in this case, an 8 damage total crit in the first round) I can't pop it without feeling frustrated I'm wasting 2/3 of it if no-one else is damaged yet. (Part of why I took Melody of Watchfullness and Chord of Watching was to spread out the damage in the absence of a real defender in that game.) Also, the Channeler player is wondering if they should have a Range 10 Ranged Basic Attack. EDIT: I've also seen in two different games Lurker players getting frustrated wanting to use their Encounter Role Powers (which need to be used at the end of the turn in the right form) so they don't use Empower Form or Form Swap... and then miss so they can't use either. And this happening several turns in a row due to bad dice borderline driving them up the wall with frustration. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Sep 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 06:35
|
|
|
Ratpick posted:Again with the really specific questions: 1 damage on a hit means you deal the 1 damage on any hit, including a 3 where you chose the Effect. Since you mention Melee Shooter, I'm working on an Errata document and Melee Shooter and Toughness are getting nerfed and Reliable is getting buffed. I'd like feedback on their replacements: Melee Shooter: Ranged attacks don’t grant Opportunities. You may gain Advantage for Flanking on Ranged attacks against adjacent opponents. Toughness: +3 to max HP. Resist 1 damage against everything except for attacks and Opportunities. (e.g. you Resist Ongoing Damage, environmental damage, and damaging zones.) Reliable (and Reliable for Summoners) - add “when you roll a 3 on an Encounter Power attack roll, it counts as a 4.” Fast Reactions is also a suspect - some people think it's super strong. I'd like opinions on that, too - is it really a must-have for every character?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 06:39
|
|
|
gourdcaptain posted:Played my first session tonight as the new version of the Bard. It worked, although the new Melody of Haste is a bit of a pain on roll20 since you have to sort it a new way for a round, and then change it back to enemies being first on ties the next. One issue I have is it feels like you should get a third at-will Chord at some time - most of them are to some degree situational (well, except for stuff like the Weaken chord, but I didn't take that due to it overlapping with the Controller in the party) and I feel like I can't take some of the cooler ones like Expansion or the one that ends End of Next Turn status effects because I'm not sure they'll be relevant in all fights and I'd like to use my role actions as much as possible. (Chord of Repositioning is still gold). Melody of Endurance is both amazing as a LV 1 encounter (potentially 10 HP healed in 5 person party) but frustrating for me because if someone's gravely injured (by in this case, an 8 damage total crit in the first round) I can't pop it without feeling frustrated I'm wasting 2/3 of it if no-one else is damaged yet. (Part of why I took Melody of Watchfullness and Chord of Watching was to spread out the damage in the absence of a real defender in that game.) How can you miss multiple turns in a row except by choice? That's what Miss Tokens are for!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 06:52
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:Hey, the Channeler should have a Range 10 RBA. And so should the Illusionist and the Magic side of the Ogre. Thanks! That was an oversight. Represented that poorly. They'd miss on the turn where they want to shift to the form they want to be in for the power by hitting, and then miss the timing for it to work out well the next turn, or be in the wrong form when they wanted to use it, or so on, for multiple turns in a row. It doesn't help you can't use Stance Swap on the same turn to fix that since they're role actions. EDIT: I do think Fast Reactions, while on the high end of feats, isn't necessary for all builds (always nice on any build, but not must have). The Toughness boost might make sense in bringing it in line with Giant for defensive feats. Hilariously, I just thought about taking it on my Bard character next levelup. Between this and the last Bard revision, it's beginning to seem like you're reading my mind on what to nerf. :P EDIT2: The general group consensus is the Reliable buff is nice, but nobody's probably going to take it still. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Sep 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 07:21
|
|
|
Thanks for the clarification to all my questions! I'm actually kind of torn on Melee Shooter: I'm not quite sure if +1 to damage on a hit is too good, but it is extremely boring. Having said that, my group's Blitzer Archer Striker's main complaint was that even though his favored fighting style was running at his opponents to shoot them in the face he was having a hard time getting Advantage on attacks. This fix should alleviate that complaint and I don't think he'll miss the +1 damage (on top of every other source of damage he's got). I haven't seen anyone ever take Reliable, but with the proposed fix I could see it becoming a viable choice. Actually, I could see it becoming really good on Blasters simply by virtue of making it more likely for you to get both the Damage and the Effect on multiple targets (although I'm not sure if this is the intent and would understand if it was limited to just one target for Blasters). Fast Reactions does not seem like a must-have, but I guess that's just me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 08:26
|
|
|
Fast Reactions is not a must-have at all, and "using your Action Trigger twice" is only better than Rally if you have a role Action Trigger that can prevent more than 4-5 damage (i.e. you are not a Leader or Blaster). Even Toughness doesn't seem that great to me, but partially that's because larger maps trivialize the first-round benefits (because nobody is in range in the first round). Actually I did want to say more about the Action Triggers of Leaders and Blasters: I don't think I've ever seen them used. I have never used one as a Leader and I honestly don't think I ever would (though I also have Resilient, and so have more use for the AP). The other roles get to cancel out an attack, which nearly always means cancelling out a critical hit far in excess of a Rally. I still don't think I'd take that new Reliable feat, and I would probably stop taking Melee Shooter (I also didn't think it was too strong). Part of the problem with Melee Shooter is that it allows you to always use your favorite power, and since Strike! characters have fewer, it makes combats more similar. Basically, the boringness that Ratpick mentioned. The feat I would beat with a stick is Sprinter, since the "I use some extra move as a Reaction" adds more "oh, wait, I am going to move away, hmm where should I move" time for every player who takes it. In fact, rather than beating it with a stick, I would restrict the reaction-y part to campaigns using the Exposed Rule, and say that they can also use any remaining movement to Shield. I have no problem with the extra movement and really just wish its other aspect were something else. Sprinter + jet pack is catnip for charop cats.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 14:57
|
|
|
homullus posted:The feat I would beat with a stick is Sprinter, since the "I use some extra move as a Reaction" adds more "oh, wait, I am going to move away, hmm where should I move" time for every player who takes it. In fact, rather than beating it with a stick, I would restrict the reaction-y part to campaigns using the Exposed Rule, and say that they can also use any remaining movement to Shield. I have no problem with the extra movement and really just wish its other aspect were something else. Sprinter + jet pack is catnip for charop cats. Oh yeah, I forgot to say! I'm thinking of slightly nerfing Sprinter, making you trade in your movement points 2-for-1, or to limit you to 1/round off-turn movement, or both. I do get what you're saying about adding extra time, though - I'm open to suggestions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
How about something like ... Sprinter: Increase your speed by 4. If you have moved into at least three different unoccupied squares on your turn, you may jump over individual squares of difficult terrain or low cover as if they were empty squares, and may ignore difficult terrain for the last three squares of your movement. At the GM's discretion, you may also jump over damaging terrain. If you are playing with the optional Exposed rule, you may spend unused movement points to give yourself the shielded status at the end of your turn.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
Alternately, instead of adding directly to the feat, maybe you could add a separate action to the Exposed rules called Guarded Advance that lets you move half your movement and grants you Shielded. That'd eliminate the weird interactions. I missed the session where the group played with Exposed, but giving up your entire movement for Shielded seems kind of extreme. e: Though actually, that still doesn't play nicely with the Rogue. Not that the Shielded action in the original Exposed rules does either...
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
What if it let you split your movement on your own turn? Lets you do some hit-and-run stuff. Although that might lead to ranged characters just dodging in and out of the same piece of cover, so maybe not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
The Lord of Hats posted:What if it let you split your movement on your own turn? Lets you do some hit-and-run stuff. Although that might lead to ranged characters just dodging in and out of the same piece of cover, so maybe not. You can already split your movement on your own turn without a feat in Strike.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Well, poo poo. I've been Rogue-ing wrong all along!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
The Lord of Hats posted:Well, poo poo. I've been Rogue-ing wrong all along! Yeah, it's been pretty useful as the Bard so I can hide behind cover, run out to do bard trigonometry (group nickname Riffs that require targeting the closest ally and closest enemy requiring me to mess with the Roll20 ruler tool for twenty to thirty seconds at times) and run back into cover.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
ImpactVector posted:e: Though actually, that still doesn't play nicely with the Rogue. Not that the Shielded action in the original Exposed rules does either... In general, I won't modify feats just based on one class (or several) not really being a good fit for it. None of the melee classes want the Melee Shooter feat and that's fine. I try to evaluate feats based on how strong they are on builds they work well with and just assume that other builds will pick other feats. I may make a class-specific version of a feat if one makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2016 05:14
|
|