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Oh, in Brazil's case I'm 100% in agreement. It's our mutt syndrome, it can't be good if it's OUR thing, unless someone from the outside said it's good, then gently caress yeah it's great. We're only ever positive about our soccer, our "hospitality" and our beaches, really.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:31
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A better example is probably Rodrigo Santoro. I remember the media trying to sell him as a big hollywood actor when all he does are 5 minute supporting actor roles lol
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Aug 31, 2016 17:33
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He was Wagner Moura before Wagner Moura completely overshadowed him. Dude's a decent actor too, but yeah.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:39
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:A better example is probably Rodrigo Santoro. I remember the media trying to sell him as a big hollywood actor when all he does are 5 minute supporting actor roles lol Which sucks since he's a legit good actor and his national movies are way better. Also another person that did this was Michel Teló, who paid through the rear end to play in other countries at a net loss just so he could say he did. It probably paid off and would have even more if he had more than one song.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:41
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Can we just keep discussing this because I'm probably gonna drink myself to a coma if we talk politics over culture today.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:44
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 Dilmahttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-37237513 quote:Brazil's Dilma Rousseff removed from presidential office as senators vote to impeach her
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Aug 31, 2016 17:45
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So the vote was 61-20 in favor of impeachment. I can't imagine this is the end of the story, though.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:48
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Is this the complete process, or is it something like the US's impeach-then-convict model?
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Aug 31, 2016 17:50
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Mozi posted:So the vote was 61-20 in favor of impeachment. It kinda is, for her anyway. As for the Brazilian people, here comes a bunch of austerity/reforma that you didn't actually vote for.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:52
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Subjunctive posted:Is this the complete process, or is it something like the US's impeach-then-convict model? This was the conviction.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:53
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Freezer posted:It kinda is, for her anyway. That's kind of what I was alluding to - now you're stuck with an unelected, extreme right-wing government that's already doing some pretty wild stuff. When's the next real election?
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Aug 31, 2016 17:55
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Subjunctive posted:Is this the complete process, or is it something like the US's impeach-then-convict model? This is the end of the road, barring a very unlikely turnabout in the supreme court. The Senate will now take a second vote to see if she'll be banned from any public job for eight years. What she was impeached for were crimes of responsibility, not actual criminal activities (this is currently under separate investigation in the "Car Wash" cases, mind).
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Aug 31, 2016 17:55
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Here's to me having to wait years before new concursos and getting worse work conditions than my parents had if I ever manage to pass in one of them.
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Aug 31, 2016 17:58
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Mozi posted:That's kind of what I was alluding to - now you're stuck with an unelected, extreme right-wing government that's already doing some pretty wild stuff. When's the next real election? How much have you looked into Temer and his folk? Because they are absolutely not what I'd define as "extreme right-wing" - they are moderate-right, at best (and I'd actually go with 100% moderate). His government is austere, yes, but both definitions don't go hand-in-hand. If you're looking for legit extreme right, you'll want to take a look at the likes of Bolsonaro.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:00
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If they let her keep her political privileges, does that mean immunity from any kind of prosecution from the ongoing Car Wash investigation? Like the obstruction of justice thing? I'm trying to think up some reasons for this last minute change in procedure. This can't be about any chances she has of being elected to anything else in the future, besides dog-catcher I guess.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:01
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Brunom1 posted:How much have you looked into Temer and his folk? Because they are absolutely not what I'd define as "extreme right-wing" - they are moderate-right, at best (and I'd actually go with 100% moderate). His government is austere, yes, but both definitions don't go hand-in-hand. I guess I don't have a gauge of that here - but from what I've heard of his rolling back labor rights, selling state assets, and pressing ahead with development in environmentally sensitive areas, those all seemed like fairly extreme actions especially when taken without a real mandate.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:04
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Sulla posted:If they let her keep her political privileges, does that mean immunity from any kind of prosecution from the ongoing Car Wash investigation? Like the obstruction of justice thing? She's formally impeached so, no, her political privileges have gone up in smoke and she can be prosecuted like any former president.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:04
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Brunom1 posted:How much have you looked into Temer and his folk? Because they are absolutely not what I'd define as "extreme right-wing" - they are moderate-right, at best (and I'd actually go with 100% moderate). His government is austere, yes, but both definitions don't go hand-in-hand. Temer is not extreme right, but I'm pretty sure he'd rate a Ted Cruz in USA's political scale.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:06
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Hah, forgot about that filter. Other than that, Sulla, you do know one of the guys voting on Dilma's impeachment was an impeached president himself? Brazil is hosed up.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:07
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As asked before, when is the next actual election.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:11
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Dias posted:Hah, forgot about that filter. lol what is it filtering?
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Aug 31, 2016 18:11
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punk rebel ecks posted:As asked before, when is the next actual election. 2018, barring no further surprises.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:12
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Symbolic Butt posted:lol what is it filtering? Lyin' Ted El Zodiaco Cruz
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Aug 31, 2016 18:17
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Dias posted:Temer is not extreme right, but I'm pretty sure he'd rate a Ted Cruz in USA's political scale. He even has that vampire/artificial monstruosity made of clay look going on ffs
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Aug 31, 2016 18:20
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At this point I just wanted it to be over, really. They had already made sure she would never be able to go back to her position anyway, the damage was already done. Now we can only brace for the impact I guess.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:21
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even elections wouldn't be a good solution this late in the year, would probably only cause more instability, and when the impeachment articulators are still out in full force. Perhaps in 2018 the loonies have faded away and Temer's right wing reforms are unpopular enough to weaken the right. Maybe even a decent left wing candidate will pop up. That's being very optimistic though.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:25
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Temer is just a standard neoliberal like FHC, if anything he could be a loving Democrat in the US.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:25
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My completely unsubstantiated prediction is a bunch of very harsh cuts in worker benefits and public institutions, which will be super unpopular but "hey, it's PT's fault", leading to an election where someone like Eduardo Jorge or Marina Silva will fly a flag of "renewal" while still being unwilling to change anything, and win a fragmented vote against PSDB and PT.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:30
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Temer is just a standard neoliberal like FHC, if anything he could be a loving Democrat in the US. Too socially conservative. Fiscally even Republicans are more progressive than our leftist government too. Maybe he could be a Southern Democrat, and hey, dude did mold this whole thing in House of Cards, basically...
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Aug 31, 2016 18:32
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We are going to need one of these:  Is there some former Soviet genetic laboratory or something available?
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Aug 31, 2016 18:43
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Temer is just a standard neoliberal like FHC, if anything he could be a loving Democrat in the US. No. The thing most Brazilians don't understand is that even a republican president like Reagan would be considered a far left revolutionary in Brazil. Brazil has regressive taxes, which is a bridge too far even for the staunchiest republican. And any attempts to make the tax code slightly less regressive have been met with calls of communism. A reminder that PT's "radical communist" agenda involved essentially a small cash transfer program, subsidized mortgages, subsidized student loans, and giving maids labor rights. TANF, flat taxes, and school vouchers (i.e., Radical republicans wet dream) would still be to the left of what we have in Brazil. That said, Temer isn't necessarily right wing or center. PMDB is pretty much a rent-seeking party. If there is money in it, they are after it. They aligned themselves with PT because PT's emphasis on industrialization and infrastructure works allowed them to get off the book money from federal contractors. Now they are going to align themselves with the finance sector and industry and are going to make money off the books by cutting down on public social security and reducing labor rights. Once things fall apart and PSDB overreaches, they will switch back. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 19:06
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joepinetree posted:Brazil has regressive taxes, which is a bridge too far even for the staunchiest republican. Anyone have suggestions on where to go to read up on Brazil's tax code and how it's regressive? I figured wikipedia would be a good start, if not biased, but it reads like someones poorly translated high school essay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Brazil quote:The tribute has the social function of contributing towards balancing of social inequalities, so that taxpayers receive the State of return, in terms of services. In fact, taxpayers cooperate with the sacrifice of part of its equity to the extent of their ability to pay, so that the collective interest is prestigious, seeking the establishment of a climate of peace, security and prosperity, from which everyone benefits even those who contributed nothing, for being "free," "immune" or for not arresting the capability. Thus, the tax has the power to enforce the social interest in the particular interest. Indeed, social development is sought in order to achieve full happiness of all.
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Aug 31, 2016 19:25
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https://www.gwu.edu/~ibi/minerva/Fall1999/Filho.Roberto.pdf http://www.global-labour-university.org/fileadmin/GLU_Working_Papers/GLU_WP_No.22.pdf especially page 17 on the latter.
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Aug 31, 2016 19:35
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Didn't PT move Brazil substantially to the left over their 10 year or so reign? At least relatively to where it was before.
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Aug 31, 2016 19:57
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punk rebel ecks posted:Didn't PT move Brazil substantially to the left over their 10 year or so reign? At least relatively to where it was before. It's as joepinetree said, the "leftist" push were basically welfare projects and other social benefits focused on the poorest parts of Brazil - which is why people are very quick to call PT "populist" and accuse Lula of basically buying votes. Economically PT didn't do anything that the Democrats wouldn't have done in America, so it wasn't THAT substantial of a change. We still spent most of our money paying off debt interests, banks were super happy to be here because of our INSANE credit tax, etc, etc.
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Aug 31, 2016 20:19
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Substantially to the left in the sense that there was now Bolsa Familia, a small cash transfer program, a system similar to affirmative actions in federal universities, something that was similar to subsidized student loans, subsidized mortgages, and some important though largely symbolic laws granting maids labor rights and allowing the government to confiscate rural businesses that use slave labor. Not in the sense that there any profound changes to the structure of society.
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Aug 31, 2016 20:24
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People should really stop confusing Brazil as some left paradise or some such, the European left compared to anything "left" in Brazil would be basically Lenin communism. and democrats far left. Brazil is a really quite a right wing place, whenever i read news on Brazil i thank the gods that we split up from Brazil.
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Aug 31, 2016 21:13
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Celexi posted:People should really stop confusing Brazil as some left paradise or some such, the European left compared to anything "left" in Brazil would be basically Lenin communism. and democrats far left. Brazil is a really quite a right wing place, whenever i read news on Brazil i thank the gods that we split up from Brazil. I'll vote for Bolsonaro if he advocates taking back the Banda Oriental by brutal and ruthless force.
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Aug 31, 2016 21:21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABGiqizwCso
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Aug 31, 2016 21:41
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Enrique Peña Nieto must be really, really stupid.
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Aug 31, 2016 21:46
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