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flowinprose
Sep 11, 2001

Where were you? .... when they built that ladder to heaven...

AnonymousNarcotics posted:

Is there any repercussion for an employee who quits a job even though they signed a contract? In this hypothetical the person didn't actually start working for them yet.

IANAL but I think common sense would be enough to tell you that it would entirely depend on the terms of the contract, and potentially the legality of those terms in case they might violate some labor law.

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ann disaster
Jan 27, 2007
Garbage and dogs are not part of a balanced diet.

joat mon posted:

No, no.

Neither an employee's right to quit at will nor an employer's right to fire at will require a reason.

The legally and philosophically separate process regarding a state's rules to administer the state's social safety net as it relates to employment compensation may, and often does, require a reason.

Okay, thanks for the info. I am in a workplace where there is a union, of which I am a member, but the employee in question is not (and is not eligible for bargaining unit membership due to the nature of their position). I guess I've gotten a little spoiled by the expectation of due process and was genuinely hoping that there would be some recourse for this person.

Thanks again!

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



AnonymousNarcotics posted:

Is there any repercussion for an employee who quits a job even though they signed a contract? In this hypothetical the person didn't actually start working for them yet.

If your question is can you be forced to work for a company that you don't want to work for, and the answer is emphatically no. Might you be on the hook for some expenses the company spent on you is a different question entirely and the answer is "it depends."

Also you cannot quit a job that you didn't start.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

So this is in Massachusetts. My landlord's wife had a job, got pregnant, went on maternity leave. After 2-3 days of being back from maternity leave, she's apparently been laid off.

That doesn't seem completely legit, does it? I would think they would have to prove why they were laying her off and all that stuff anyways.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

She'll have to prove it was a result of her pregnancy, not the other way around.

You said laid off, which usually means "Yeah we're losing twenty people cause we're broke." They don't have to employ someone they can't afford or don't need.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

She'll have to prove it was a result of her pregnancy, not the other way around.

You said laid off, which usually means "Yeah we're losing twenty people cause we're broke." They don't have to employ someone they can't afford or don't need.

Yeah, she told my fiance she was laid off. I know she works for a non-profit, so anything is possible...just seems really convenient. However, if it was paid maternity leave, then maybe they were doing everything they could for her to wait out the maternity leave. No worries, just curious since it was right after she came back to work.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

c-spam cannot afford



SMDFTB posted:

Yeah, she told my fiance she was laid off. I know she works for a non-profit, so anything is possible...just seems really convenient. However, if it was paid maternity leave, then maybe they were doing everything they could for her to wait out the maternity leave. No worries, just curious since it was right after she came back to work.

If I had to guess, it was a situation where they really didn't have a job for her when she came back.

If they hired someone immediately to fill her now vacant spot, then that's a different story.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Also depends on the maternity leave she had. Fmla, company policy, did she just take time off?

Don't get me wrong, I want full communism now with a year of maternity leave. But it may not be illegal.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
I have a question about copyrights and trademarks. Here's the scenario:

I have an idea for a game. It's a pretty basic game, basically a rule sheet and some cards. I'm currently refining the rules and cards, but I want to make an attempt at Kickstarter-ing this game. I have no illusion that my idea is any good or that people will like it, but I want to try anyway because why not? We're investigating things like "how can we manufacture this" and "what will that cost" and "how many pledges at how many dollars would it take to do an initial run".

Ideally, I'd like to put up the kickstarter before we're actually ready to start printing cards, obviously, but I'm not sure how to legally protect the name of the game, the rules, and the cards. My understanding is that both trademark and copyright automatically attach to the creator of a mark/work respectively upon creation. I can't afford to pay for trademark or copyright registrations out of pocket. Is simply using the name/product description/etc in my kickstarter pitch sufficient to protect me from someone with money rolling up, taking my idea wholesale, and bringing it to market before I can?

Fictional example, let's say my game was called "bucket o fish" and involved throwing little rubber fish into a bucket (this is not actually my idea). If someone saw this and then brought a "barrel o chum" game with similar rules to market, would I have the recourse to sue them based on my kickstarter existing first?

Also as part of my kickstarter, I'd like to make some small subset of the cards available as a printout (yeah this is totally what cards against humanity did) for free so people can play the game and decide whether they want more. I feel like I'm likely to get more backers if I have something tangible to try.

So overall, my question is what all I need to do to make sure this whole thing is protected. I plan to form some type of corporation (need to research this more) that would actually own the kickstarter/game so that I'm not on the hook if some crazy issue eats up the money. Do I need to register my trademark (the name and slogan for the game) and copyrights (the rules and text of the cards thesmelves) ahead of time, or is the simple existence of the kickstarter sufficient to prove my ownership of the concept in court? If my product is still in development and someone brings a suspiciously similar product to market, does my earlier creation of the kickstarter give me sufficient legal recourse to c&d their product or demand compensation from them?

Clearly I'm not a business person, I just have a cool idea for a game that I'd really like to bring to life if I can. At least maybe I can show my grandkids that game I managed to print a few dozen copies of back in the day if nothing else.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
You always have a right to sue anyone for any reason whatsoever

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

I have a question about copyrights and trademarks. Here's the scenario:

I have an idea for a game. It's a pretty basic game, basically a rule sheet and some cards. I'm currently refining the rules and cards, but I want to make an attempt at Kickstarter-ing this game. I have no illusion that my idea is any good or that people will like it, but I want to try anyway because why not? We're investigating things like "how can we manufacture this" and "what will that cost" and "how many pledges at how many dollars would it take to do an initial run".

Ideally, I'd like to put up the kickstarter before we're actually ready to start printing cards, obviously, but I'm not sure how to legally protect the name of the game, the rules, and the cards. My understanding is that both trademark and copyright automatically attach to the creator of a mark/work respectively upon creation. I can't afford to pay for trademark or copyright registrations out of pocket. Is simply using the name/product description/etc in my kickstarter pitch sufficient to protect me from someone with money rolling up, taking my idea wholesale, and bringing it to market before I can?

Fictional example, let's say my game was called "bucket o fish" and involved throwing little rubber fish into a bucket (this is not actually my idea). If someone saw this and then brought a "barrel o chum" game with similar rules to market, would I have the recourse to sue them based on my kickstarter existing first?

Also as part of my kickstarter, I'd like to make some small subset of the cards available as a printout (yeah this is totally what cards against humanity did) for free so people can play the game and decide whether they want more. I feel like I'm likely to get more backers if I have something tangible to try.

So overall, my question is what all I need to do to make sure this whole thing is protected. I plan to form some type of corporation (need to research this more) that would actually own the kickstarter/game so that I'm not on the hook if some crazy issue eats up the money. Do I need to register my trademark (the name and slogan for the game) and copyrights (the rules and text of the cards thesmelves) ahead of time, or is the simple existence of the kickstarter sufficient to prove my ownership of the concept in court? If my product is still in development and someone brings a suspiciously similar product to market, does my earlier creation of the kickstarter give me sufficient legal recourse to c&d their product or demand compensation from them?

Clearly I'm not a business person, I just have a cool idea for a game that I'd really like to bring to life if I can. At least maybe I can show my grandkids that game I managed to print a few dozen copies of back in the day if nothing else.

If you care enough to prevent someone else from doing it, pay for a lawyer now to avoid issues later.

But short version: you can't protect games. You could protect the literal text of the rules under copyright (but someone else could rewrite the same basic rules and be fine.). You could protect the name with a trademark but if you don't register it it won't be all that well protected.

If you care enough to prevent someone else from doing it, pay for a lawyer now to avoid issues later.

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
EDIT:^^^ So your advice would be not to make the KS or mention the game publicly until I can save for a lawyer to put all my poo poo in order?


WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

You always have a right to sue anyone for any reason whatsoever

Well OK, sure, but some lawsuits are more likely to succeed than others. I want to know what I'd have to do to have fairly good peace of mind that my product can't be ripped off without consequence.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

What kind of lawyer do I need if someone is making false allegations against me as a child's coach?

*edit* Nothing has happened, but I coach a coed junior sports team. And as the only male coach (it's about a 90% female team) I am very wary of even a hint of impropriety.

Even with all of that care I had a girl complain that I was singling her out and embarrassing her (she was performing an unsafe act and I yelled to stop her). Everyone was on my side and nothing came of it, but I want to know what kind of lawyer can help if there is ever anything else like this (or worse) that ever comes up.

spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 3, 2016

twodot
Aug 7, 2005

You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

EDIT:^^^ So your advice would be not to make the KS or mention the game publicly until I can save for a lawyer to put all my poo poo in order?


Well OK, sure, but some lawsuits are more likely to succeed than others. I want to know what I'd have to do to have fairly good peace of mind that my product can't be ripped off without consequence.
This isn't even a legal question: your product can definitely be ripped off without consequence. Even if you had whatever legal protections for "Bucket O Fish" you wanted (which I suspect are far less available than you realize), what can you do when some rear end in a top hat in foreign country X decides to publish "Bucket O Chum"?

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

spacetoaster posted:

What kind of lawyer do I need if someone is making false allegations against me as a child's coach?

*edit* Nothing has happened, but I coach a coed junior sports team. And as the only male coach (it's about a 90% female team) I am very wary of even a hint of impropriety.

Even with all of that care I had a girl complain that I was singling her out and embarrassing her (she was performing an unsafe act and I yelled to stop her). Everyone was on my side and nothing came of it, but I want to know what kind of lawyer can help if there is ever anything else like this (or worse) that ever comes up.

Your first step should probably be a co-coach, not a lawyer.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

NancyPants posted:

Your first step should probably be a co-coach, not a lawyer.

yeah the standard response for situations where you want to protect yourself from any allegations of impropriety is just always making sure there's another person in the room

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

NancyPants posted:

Your first step should probably be a co-coach, not a lawyer.


evilweasel posted:

yeah the standard response for situations where you want to protect yourself from any allegations of impropriety is just always making sure there's another person in the room

Got it. Already done at all times. I'm not asking for sports advice though.

Does anybody know an answer to my question? What kind of lawyer handles false allegations? Some kind of libel or slander lawyer?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
A general civil litigator.

Alternatively, you could turn gay, and throw them all off the trail!

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

blarzgh posted:

A general civil litigator.

Thanks!

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib

blarzgh posted:

A general civil litigator.

Alternatively, you could turn gay, and throw them all off the trail!

At least in Kentucky, that'd get you in more trouble because you're gonna turn the little girls into lesbians.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

pathetic little tramp posted:

At least in Kentucky, that'd get you in more trouble because you're gonna turn the little girls into lesbians.

There are already several lesbians (and trans persons too!) on the team. And parents (that are lgbt). There are several that have already told me, loudly, that they don't think a cis man should be allowed to coach "their" team.

Many of them are very quick to make loud, negative, insinuations. One has already been negatively talking about me to other parents.

As this is part of my lively hood I want to be prepared to defend myself against this stuff.

Pretty much I just want to know what kind of lawyer can write a scary letter to someone who may be crossing the line. And can go further if warranted.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Hey, I'm all for some lawyer getting paid, but it legit sounds like you're over reacting. Can you tell us more about what kind of insinuations have been made?

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

spacetoaster posted:

There are already several lesbians (and trans persons too!) on the team. And parents (that are lgbt). There are several that have already told me, loudly, that they don't think a cis man should be allowed to coach "their" team.

Many of them are very quick to make loud, negative, insinuations. One has already been negatively talking about me to other parents.

As this is part of my lively hood I want to be prepared to defend myself against this stuff.

Pretty much I just want to know what kind of lawyer can write a scary letter to someone who may be crossing the line. And can go further if warranted.

You're not gonna be able to find a lawyer that will bring a defamation action or any other action against these people unless you pay him hourly. Defamation is already hard to win, and for a lot of attorneys bring it against soccer moms is gonna be a nonstarter. And a letter from a lawyer is just gonna make them think you have something to hide, since people will assume you are preemptive trying to silence them from finding the truth or something stupid like that.

You get paid? Do you coach for an organization and were assigned the team?

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Hey, I'm all for some lawyer getting paid, but it legit sounds like you're over reacting. Can you tell us more about what kind of insinuations have been made?

I'm not looking to do "anything" right now. I just like having an idea what in the world to do, and who to call, if I need to.

EwokEntourage posted:

You're not gonna be able to find a lawyer that will bring a defamation action or any other action against these people unless you pay him hourly. Defamation is already hard to win, and for a lot of attorneys bring it against soccer moms is gonna be a nonstarter. And a letter from a lawyer is just gonna make them think you have something to hide, since people will assume you are preemptive trying to silence them from finding the truth or something stupid like that.

You get paid? Do you coach for an organization and were assigned the team?

I'm not preemptively doing anything. Nothing of legal note has occurred.

I do get paid. And my other job is teaching kids too. I do not trust any higher ups to look out for me if anything ever happens.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Ok, so you may want to consult your union rep if you're in a union and anything happens. In addition to a general litigator, id look for someone who also practices employment law (plaintiff side).

None of this will be cheap by the way. Unless you hire captain scraps. He is cheap.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

None of this will be cheap by the way. Unless you hire captain scraps. He is cheap.

How cheap is he?

:wink:

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
This does not sound like its worth the trouble.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

blarzgh posted:

This does not sound like its worth the trouble.

That's a loving truth. But hey, some dude is gonna make $1,000 for words on paper.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
My sister is a high school girls volleyball/basketball/softball coach and she never deals with anything like that, but the mens, male coaches who've helped out in the past sure have.

I lack the temperament to handle accusations of impropriety gracefully.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

spacetoaster posted:

I'm not looking to do "anything" right now. I just like having an idea what in the world to do, and who to call, if I need to.


I'm not preemptively doing anything. Nothing of legal note has occurred.

I do get paid. And my other job is teaching kids too. I do not trust any higher ups to look out for me if anything ever happens.

I'm just saying, a "scary note," even from a letter, is useless.

If someone sues you, they will sue your employer too. You employer, and it's insurance company, has the money, and they will likely end up defending you too. I understand you are concerned. You should document what you can , dates times names etc. But a teacher/coach doesn't have the money to make it worthwhile to sue

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Evil Weasel gave you the best advice and you glossed it as "coaching advice" which is kind of annoying. Having witnesses isn't coaching advice, it's literally legal advice in this situation.

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

:jpmf:
"Never be the only adult in the room with any number of underage students" is a very good policy in these situations even if you DON'T expect trouble.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Javid posted:

"Never be the only adult in the room with any number of underage students" is a very good policy in these situations even if you DON'T expect trouble.

Didn't you just describe "teaching a class"?

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider

spacetoaster posted:

How cheap is he?

:wink:

I've been paid with a samurai sword before. That's how cheap.

Still wouldn't take your case, honey.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

CaptainScraps posted:

I've been paid with a samurai sword before. That's how cheap.

Still wouldn't take your case, honey.

I sense the beginning of a TV ad... Captain Scraps, Esq., cuts through your legal troubles... as you slice through reams of paper.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
This filing was folded 5000 times.

patentmagus
May 19, 2013

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

My understanding is that both trademark and copyright automatically attach to the creator of a mark/work respectively upon creation.

Ummm, no. Trademark and copyright are significantly different. What you've done is proven that you really need to get a lawyer if you want protection.

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006

Jesus, this thread was hard to find.

Quick question: How do I go about finding a competent lawyer in Europe who would represent my dad in the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) involving a work induced disease? This person should be fluent in German, and a Hungarian background is a plus. My dad has fought this case in lower courts with little success. At the ECHR has admitted (= some compensation) that the lower courts were poo poo in dealing with his case, but they have so far upheld their verdict.

The medical condition is complex, and I would not do a very good job of explaining the finer details. But looking at the facts at first glance, his complaint is legit. An expert witness has confirmed the diagnosis (disease + the fact that it was work induced), and there is legal precedent for people with this condition getting compensated. He's been fighting this case for over a decade and made very little headway (besides educating himself on the illness, and the above admission by the ECHR). One issue my dad has is that he wants to hire a non-existent unicorn lawyer whom he knows, likes, and who understands every single aspect of both law and medicine. I'm trying to push him in the direction where he finds a competent lawyer who has worked medical cases, knows how to find expert witnesses, and has the balls to stand up at the European Court level against medicine in Germany.

Thanks thread.

Spacewolf
May 19, 2014
Referrals from previous-level counsel. ECHR certainly sounds like appellate work...

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blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
I don't know how courts work over there, but if someone here in the US described their need for a lawyer in this fashion, it would send up nearly every red flag there is.

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