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spectralent posted:Chain of Command is loving amazing everyone should play it. Okay, Okay, I'll get on the assets at some point.
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Sep 1, 2016 04:57
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Grey is an officer and a gentleman, aside from being some sort of octomonster.
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Sep 1, 2016 05:12
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tallkidwithglasses posted:I took about as much a look as you did and ended up going with Black Powder for my "baseline" 6mm rules because I felt it scaled up better. I'd be curious to hear a more nuanced review though. I love that websites terrain guides, I shamelessly stole their technique for making forests for my table a while back and I still periodically browse over to drool at their perfect little 3D maps. Notahippie posted:Awesome. I love the idea of preplanned operations for basically every period pre-WWII, but it doesn't seem like it's used nearly as often as it should be. This is a cool example of how WWI battles actually developed. JcDent posted:Grey is an officer and a gentleman, aside from being some sort of octomonster. Thanks. My output has been reduced by a croctopod, but I'm still working on things!
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Sep 1, 2016 05:20
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every page of this thread needs a 6mm AAR. This one looks a lot of fun, and WWI is definitely an underrepresented niche.
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Sanguine posted:Has anyone tried chain of command out? And if you pick up the "At the Sharp End" campaign supplement (for whatever, like $5), it gives you the tools to "Forge a Narrative" in ways that GW has only dreamed about. So yeah, spectralent's right - everyone should play it.
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Sep 1, 2016 05:46
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One of my favourite things about it is the fact it actually makes you care about your guys, because losing men has a knock-on impact on the entire force. It's not like FoW or whatever where I'll happily throw another team into an objective to contest it in a bloody meatgrinder; you do actually think "Losing that jump-off point would be bad, but I really don't want to lose this section, either".
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Sep 1, 2016 12:38
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 The Force Morale rules are one of the game's cooler mechanics. You don't have to wipe out your opponent's entire force (in fact it's actually really hard to do so), you just have to crush his will to fight.What's cool is that this effect actually becomes more pronounced in campaign play. You start trying to balance "can I afford to lose this scenario?" with "can I afford the losses I'll incur to win this scenario?" After a particularly bloody engagement, you might voluntarily surrender the campaign initiative to your opponent because it gives you a little bit of time to breathe, dig in, and get some of your guys back from the aid station. This introduces an interesting ebb-and-flow mechanic to campaigns. I also dig that in campaign play, your relative losses in one game can have an effect on your Force Morale in the next - as if your men see you as "keeping our guys safe" vs. "sticking it to the enemy," your starting FM goes up. Or, as in the case of my solo campaign, the Irish ginger lieutenant - at first much beloved by his men because he'd come up through the enlisted ranks himself - has now become known to the men of the platoon as "The Red Menace" because he keeps getting so many of them killed. The fact that he was just awarded a Military Cross has more or less confirmed their suspicions that he means to make his military career on their bloody backs. To call them "unenthusiastic" about engaging the enemy is putting it mildly. I think between the mens' opinion and LT's mood from the most recent rear end-chewing by his CO, the modifier to my initial Force Morale roll is a -4.  Oh, yeah, that's another reason you should get this game - it supports solo play really well. The unit activation mechanic works such that you won't know from phase to phase which units you'll be able to activate. This is a game where I've literally been able to ambush myself and think, "wow, I did not see that coming." Ilor fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 14:47
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Double post, sorry.
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Sep 1, 2016 14:51
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So how much would it cost to buy literally everything there is to buy in CoC? I jest, a little. I might dip my toes into BA this moth, and if we manage to get >0 games in the following month, I will try to convince The Other Historical Gamer to try out CoC. Force morale/bottling is one of those things that miss when I watch hams batreps or when I accidentaly witness a WMH game happening. At least in WMH you have to guard your leader. In hams, you can lose your entire chain of command and still grind on for turn after turn until the last enemy man is dead. *rant continues with ravings against the evils of on board artillery and fliers*
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Sep 1, 2016 15:02
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You can have everything you need, models-wise, for both Bolt Action and CoC for like 100 bucks if you shop online. You might even be able to get 1000 points for BA and get a spare box of dudes to use as a second force for CoC for that, but that I'm less sure about (and it depends on what support you're using in CoC)
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Sep 1, 2016 15:28
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Bah all this praise of CoC just reminds me I haven't gotten in a game yet. I have my Italian/Libyan force from BA and a brit paras BA army just sitting around (my BA opponent had real life things kinda take over recently)
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Sep 1, 2016 15:40
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The perry DAK and Desert Rat boxes are 20 pounds each, and both include the basic platoon you need for a CoC force. After that, you're pretty much adding the toys you want, not what you actually need to play.
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Sep 1, 2016 16:23
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I've only gotten a handful of games in, but CoC is easily the best thing I've played in the last however many years. You can buy the rules PDF from TFL and that's about all you need. Most armies profiles are free downloads, and you can do two basic armies in 28mm for about $60usd. (Or much less if you go 1/72!)
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Sep 1, 2016 16:36
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lilljonas posted:The perry DAK and Desert Rat boxes are 20 pounds each, and both include the basic platoon you need for a CoC force. After that, you're pretty much adding the toys you want, not what you actually need to play. Or, you could start how I started - take perverse delight in proxying the gently caress with some 40K Imperial Guard minis to play a game that's actually, you know, good.
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Sep 1, 2016 16:45
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While I'm all for letting Guardsmen loose in a ruleset that's Actually Good, I'm more concerned with the rules. As for minis, I have a LFGS to support, so I might not be getting the cheapest stuff, but due to my enthusiastic non-monetary support of it I'll be getting the stuff as cheap as they can give me. Still, getting someone to play against will be even harder than painting. I am optimistic, though. That one time I read through CoC rules I was really impressed.
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Sep 1, 2016 17:14
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The Kings of War historical rules are up for preorder, and there's more information about how the army lists work. There's a core list in the front that contains basic things like warriors, spearmen, cavalry, archers, leader, bolt thrower, catapult, etc, then each historical army is given a list of the core units they are allowed to select, a list of mercenary units they are allowed to select, special rules they can purchase that make their core units more thematic, and then a list of special units unique to that army. The Roman army page is open as a demonstration. http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/books/product/kings-of-war-historical-armies.html It's definitely a game more towards the Bolt Action and Flames of War end of the spectrum than the grog end.
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Sep 1, 2016 17:29
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I think one of the only things I've ever tilted my head at in the CoC rules is that it doesn't specify if you can premeasure. I've always allowed it because movement's random anyway and shooting is infinite-range for more or less everything, so the amount of times it dramatically affects anything is really marginal. Another thing I love about CoC: Emergent focus on fire and manuever. It's actually fairly hard to kill people in CoC. It is far easier to shock them into uselessness, or potentially even break them. Quite organically you end up targeting things to try and lay down shock counters and get in positions to claim JOPs, or assault enemy strong points, since just trying to shoot squads off the board is often an impractical amount of effort, especially when you don't have the luxury of a long, uninterrupted turn. Speaking of JOPs, the board deployment system is also beautiful.
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Sep 1, 2016 19:19
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spectralent posted:I think one of the only things I've ever tilted my head at in the CoC rules is that it doesn't specify if you can premeasure. I've always allowed it because movement's random anyway and shooting is infinite-range for more or less everything, so the amount of times it dramatically affects anything is really marginal. Yeah, we use premeasuring. Since moves are random anyway, there's still a lot of risk management involved, you can just make better informed guesses.
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Sep 1, 2016 19:46
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I know have a box of Italian Paras (got it for my contributions) and I'm still going to order brits!
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Sep 1, 2016 20:41
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We don't pre-measure in CoC largely because it's funnier that way. "I dunno, do you think those guys are in close range or just effective range? Why don't you order them to fire and find out?" For most stuff it doesn't matter, so I think it's fine to play it either way. But most of us also play Infinity (which strictly forbids pre-measure for very important/good reasons), so I guess we're just used to not wanting/needing to do it.
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Sep 2, 2016 00:15
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JcDent posted:I know have a box of Italian Paras (got it for my contributions) and I'm still going to order brits!
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Sep 2, 2016 00:16
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Team Yankee British release schedule! http://www.team-yankee.com/Default.aspx?tabid=867&art_id=5304 Looks like we're getting shitloads of plastic and no Challengers...
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Sep 2, 2016 00:29
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I wasn't planning on it, but I pulled the trigger on some cheap Perry DAK today. I hadn't considered playing CoC solo, but that actually sounds like a fun way to kill a lazy afternoon...
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Sep 2, 2016 01:48
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moths posted:I wasn't planning on it, but I pulled the trigger on some cheap Perry DAK today. I hadn't considered playing CoC solo, but that actually sounds like a fun way to kill a lazy afternoon... EDIT: tonight I get to find out how im/balanced a straight up armor vs infantry battle is using the Armored Platoon Force Rating calculator as given in "Big CoC." It's still early-war (no PIATs), so I think the British are going to take a pounding. Ilor fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 02:11
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NTRabbit posted:The Kings of War historical rules are up for preorder, and there's more information about how the army lists work. There's a core list in the front that contains basic things like warriors, spearmen, cavalry, archers, leader, bolt thrower, catapult, etc, then each historical army is given a list of the core units they are allowed to select, a list of mercenary units they are allowed to select, special rules they can purchase that make their core units more thematic, and then a list of special units unique to that army. The Roman army page is open as a demonstration. Good news for me.
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Sep 2, 2016 03:35
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Ilor posted:I give unto you a helpful link: http://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3727 Thanks! This will be some good reading, I think. I saw your North Space-Africa reports from earlier and thought that was great to behold. I also dug my box of Perry Desert Rats out of storage and holy poo poo these are good figures. For some reason I ordered the Australian hat upgrade - this is going to look incredible.
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Sep 2, 2016 04:00
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spectralent posted:Team Yankee British release schedule! That's kind of lovely given the Challenger I predated the M1 (and was the first tank in the world with composite armour) 
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Sep 2, 2016 12:54
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feedmegin posted:That's kind of lovely given the Challenger I predated the M1 (and was the first tank in the world with composite armour) Battlefront: Not even historically accurate in their release schedules
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Sep 2, 2016 12:58
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Hmm actually looking again, I'm wrong. M1 (original version, 105mm gun - is that what Team Yankee models?) was 1980, Challenger I was 1983. Guess we know roughly when World War 3 happened.
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Sep 2, 2016 13:02
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feedmegin posted:Hmm actually looking again, I'm wrong. M1 (original version, 105mm gun - is that what Team Yankee models?) was 1980, Challenger I was 1983. Guess we know roughly when World War 3 happened. The game is actually clear when it's set, the back cover says "It's 1985, and the cold war just got hot!".
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Sep 2, 2016 13:28
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For the Sharp Practice players, I borrowed this book from a friend at the club now that I'm collecting French, and it's just great. Perfect for both grasping the overall structure and culture of the Grande Armée, while being full of small anectdotes and flavour so that it's not a dry read at all. https://www.amazon.com/Swords-Around-Throne-John-Elting/dp/0306807572 Now I want to buy all the cavalry, and convert a field band with ridiculous costumes to march behind my infantrymen.
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Sep 2, 2016 13:39
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I have a soft sport for Chally 1 since they can take a 3-ton bomb to the front armor and live in Wargame: Red Dragon. EDIT: speaking of stuff on LFGS, there is some historical crap laying around - Victrix Napoleonics, a starter box of Warlord Romans - and I'd rather see it gone (I mean, it's not my FLGS, but I'm just sad about those minis not being in use and just sitting there on a shelf), but it doesn't seem like they're scarce in circulation on eBay. There are also several books on mostly ancient history, all of that stuff is stranded due to historicals not being a thing here. On the other hand, we have Urban Mammoth/War ant AT-43, now those are doomed. JcDent fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 14:11
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When's East Germany coming with those hot T55s.
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Sep 2, 2016 14:34
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Ilor posted:We don't pre-measure in CoC largely because it's funnier that way. "I dunno, do you think those guys are in close range or just effective range? Why don't you order them to fire and find out?" For most stuff it doesn't matter, so I think it's fine to play it either way. But most of us also play Infinity (which strictly forbids pre-measure for very important/good reasons), so I guess we're just used to not wanting/needing to do it. What are the good reasons? Estimating a length is a practical skill which hurts players that can't do it as well.
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Sep 2, 2016 15:43
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If I understand infinity correctly, you shouldn't have any clear fire lanes that are more than about 10" anyway. I used to play 2e 40k against a professional carpenter. His guess weapons were accurate to within a quarter-inch! It's a bad mechanic because it imposes a real player's skill / weakness over top of in-game characters' skill and training. In semi-unrelated news, the WWI historical action drama / reenactment Our World War is streaming on Netflix. I've only seem one episode and it's pretty intense. It's also filmed like an ultra-modern war movie, which is a bit jarring at first, considering the setting. (Some shots are made to look like aerial IR footage, some shaky cam, a modern soundtrack, etc.) It's actually a neat effect because it gives the modern viewer a comparatively non-intrusive way to relate.
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Sep 2, 2016 16:20
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Panzeh posted:When's East Germany coming with those hot T55s. After the British, followed by a New US and Soviet book.
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Sep 2, 2016 16:59
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goodness posted:What are the good reasons? Estimating a length is a practical skill which hurts players that can't do it as well. And for what it's worth, all measuring happens at the end after both players have declared their orders/reactions, such that no one gets a pre-measurement advantage. It's entirely possible that both players can guess wrong (and I've seen this happen). So yes, it's a real-world skill that incurs an advantage in the game. So is the ability to remember the pertinent situational rules. So is an understanding of covering/suppressive fire, combined arms, and maneuver warfare. Nobody complains about those.
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Sep 2, 2016 19:07
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Ilor posted:Because of the way orders and reactions are structured, you often times have to decide how you're going to react to something, and the viability of your options change based on the distance to your target - often without knowing whether or not your target is going to continue moving if you're the Reactive Turn player. A perfect example is the "Direct Template" weapon, e.g. things like flamethrowers. If your dude is X distance away, he might have to gauge whether it's best to run forward 4" (maybe out of cover) and use the flamethrower (which hits automatically), or stay in cover where he is and use a rifle (which only has a chance of hitting) instead. Similarly, most of my line infantry are armed with a rifle with an under-mounted shotgun. The "to hit" modifier in the 0-8" range band is +0 for a rifle but +6 for a shotgun. From 8"-16" the shotgun drops to +0 and the rifle rises to +3. So if you're super-close, I definitely want to use the shotgun. But if you're a shade farther away, it's actually better for me to use my rifle. None of that would be affected by being able to premeasure. There would still be those choices of whether you want to risk moving forward to do more damage/have a better position or sit back. "ability to remember the pertinent situational rules. So is an understanding of covering/suppressive fire, combined arms, and maneuver warfare. Nobody complains about those." Because they are part of learning the rules of the game. Not being able to premeasure is only a disadvantage to players who cannot guess ranges well. Its similar to games where you can't look at the discard even though they have all been discarded face up. It does not convey any positive benefit to the players. Just gives an advantage to people with a better memory without regard to them being a better player.
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Sep 2, 2016 19:20
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moths posted:If I understand infinity correctly, you shouldn't have any clear fire lanes that are more than about 10" anyway. I realize it's a non-historical, but I love Infinity for the same reason that I love Chain of Command - it models a particular kind of combat really well. What Chain of Command does for the inherent chaos and difficulty of controlling a WW2 infantry platoon, Infinity does for high-tech, combined arms, special-operations tactical engagements at the squad-level.
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Sep 2, 2016 19:21
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I don't like not being able to pre measure because most of the time you're able to effectively measure the distance anyway through keeping track of previous measurements. I remember playing 40k a long time ago and using some trig to get my basilisk dialed in-- it's not really a game skill, it's just a dumb hoop to jump through to arrive at a decision point.
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Sep 2, 2016 19:36
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goodness posted:None of that would be affected by being able to premeasure. There would still be those choices of whether you want to risk moving forward to do more damage/have a better position or sit back. I know people who are poo poo at some board games too. I am probably one of them (although I'm pretty ruthless at 7-Wonders). Yet my wife can look at a Catan board and the order people have rolled for the placement of settlements in the initial set-up and probably tell you to within an 80% certainty who will win the game. She just gets that game at a level that I don't.  Look, is it fair that I can't kick a ball like Lionel Messi? I dunno, but I think it's as fair as life is in general. It doesn't stop me from enjoying doing it. And maybe if I spent as much time doing it as he does, I'd be way better at it than I am now. EDIT: and in a casual setting, I could care less if people pre-measure. In fact it's a good way to help teach the game. I'm not saying that all games are made better by allowing or disallowing pre-measurement, just that it has its uses. Ilor fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Sep 2, 2016 |
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Sep 2, 2016 20:30
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