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babyeatingpsychopath posted:
Much appreciated! I was having difficulty finding a definitive answer online, and that's the first straight shot run I've found from my basement to my attic.
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Aug 4, 2016 12:17
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Hello plumbing experts! I am looking for help on dealing with basement flooding and some sump pump/catch basin issues we're having. I've gotten like 2-3 recommended courses of action from plumbers and am not sure what will be cost effective or what will be a waste. Basically, we live in Chicago and our basement gets water in it 1-3 times a year with bad storms. Water comes up through the bathtub drain, base of the toilet, laundry room floor drain, and occasionally some cracks in the concrete floor above the sewer pipe. Usually they are large puddles of dirty (but not smelly - so I'm hoping it's just dirt and not poo poo!) water so we aren't talking like inches of water or completely flooded or anything like that. When it's not rainy we have no issues, and have regularly had our sewer line rodded. I also just had a plumber re-install/re-seal the toilet hoping to give the water one less place to escape. We have a sump pump but it drains directly to a catch basin in our back yard. It seems like this catch basin then feeds our sewer line back to the city, but when that gets full, water continues going into the sump, it keeps cycling, and it's basically just circulating the water between the sump, sewer line, and catch basin without actually draining, and then it comes up our drains. A few things that have been suggested by the last couple plumbers we had come by: - Close the catch basin entirely and drain directly to the sewer: I'm not even sure this is legal. But to me it seems like it'd decrease the capacity we have to store excess water and not really stop the problem of the sewer backing up? - Clean/pump out the catch basin & hydro jet our sewer lines: This seems logical to me. We have some debris & buildup at the bottom of the basin, so maybe cleaning it out will give us more room to store excess water and stop stuff coming back in to our house? - Another guy said no need to clean out the catch basin, but to hydro jet our sewer lines and divert the sump pump drain to our back yard instead of the basin. This also makes sense to me, but my wife is worried about our yard turning into our swamp and doesn't want to do it. To me it seems like draining the sump to the yard would decrease the amount of water going directly to the pipes and stop the circulation of water to and from sump and catch basin. My wife is also wondering if it's even legal but I am pretty sure it's legal to drain the sump pump to our own property, just not directly into the sewer. So I guess my questions are: - How bad is it that our sump pump drains directly to the catch basin which then potentially just re-fills the sump pump? - How much would hydro jetting the sewer lines help? They say it will remove dirt/grease/other misc. buildup but I don't see how this will help stop water from coming back up during storms. - Should we close our catch basin entirely? Or at least clean it out? How much of a difference would that make? - Should I just give up and accept water in our basement every now and again, and/or spend the 20k or whatever on a full blown flood control system?
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Aug 11, 2016 15:35
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Chicago has a combined sewer system, so cutting the catch basin out probably is legal. But it definitely makes the problem worse, since you lose any buffering capacity; you'd have the sump pump actively pushing water into it and it would back up far more easily. If your sewer line is significantly occluded, that slows water trying to drain through it. Completely cleaning it with hydrojetting could increase the flow rate significantly. The sewer line only backs up if water is entering it faster than it can drain out; if you double the rate at which water drains out of it, water will need to flow into it twice as fast before it starts backing up. If you need preventative rodding on a regular basis, that certainly suggests there's a problem with your sewer line; hydrojetting may help for a while, but you should probably get it scoped and deal with the issue. Draining the sump to your yard will probably stop the backing up, assuming the draining catch basin is indeed a factor in causing it. Turning part of your yard into swamp is indeed a possibility though.
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Aug 11, 2016 17:17
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What about installing a backwater valve to prevent the sewer water from coming into your house during overflow conditions and then discharging the sump to your yard to prevent the recirculation from your catch basin? e: http://www.winnipeg.ca/waterandwaste/drainageflooding/basementflooding.stm#install
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Aug 11, 2016 17:22
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Thanks for the responses! Zhentar - That makes sense to me. So it seems like part of the problem could be water from our property not draining fast enough to the sewer, thus causing a backup. In which case jetting & further clearing out the line could help. As opposed to the city sewer just getting all the way backed up to our place (which may still be a possibility.) So I can see how jetting & leaving the catch basin could hopefully make more of a difference. I'll have to negotiate with my wife and see what our options are about draining the sump to a better place too - to me I'd rather have a puddle in the yard than the basement! sirr0bin - I think that's a good idea but from what I understand falls more to the "very expensive" side of things which we're trying to avoid. So if the hydro jetting and other short term steps don't work out then I think something along those lines is next on the list. Basically we have to decide if the inconvenience of mopping & cleaning a couple times a year is worth more than the cost of the backwater valve. And right now our basement is only partly finished (we had to tear out all the carpet after it flooded the first time) so it'll also affect how we fix it back up eventually.
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Aug 11, 2016 17:37
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Your problems might be outside your house, not inside. How bad is the drainage around your house if you have to rely on your sump pump so much? How is the grade around your house? What about the gutters? How well do they drain? Also, reseating a toilet is cheap to do yourself. A new wax ring costs under $10. The biggest problem is that removing the old wax ring is messy, plus it can be awkward picking up a toilet while straddling it, trying to guide it onto the flange bolts.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:03
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Very good question - we haven't taken a close look at the overall drainage outside the house so that might be a good other route for us to explore. Gutters seem to work OK but may have a couple leaks so it'd probably help to get those fixed up too. We have 'em cleaned out twice a year. At least some of the gutters are also connected and drain directly to the catch basin... we've heard it would be good to disconnect them and drain to away from the house but that goes back to my wife not wanting the yard to become a swamp. Plus in our neighborhood, houses are very close together with sidewalk in between so there's not a lot of room to drain to. On one side of our house we do have a gravel/rocky area with dirt and stuff underneath that I believe helps some with drainage.
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Aug 11, 2016 20:22
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kid sinister posted:How bad is the drainage around your house if you have to rely on your sump pump so much? How is the grade around your house? What about the gutters? How well do they drain? Probably pretty bad. It's worth taking a look, but it tends to be an inevitable consequence of living in Chicago.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:01
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Clevername Lookhere posted:Very good question - we haven't taken a close look at the overall drainage outside the house so that might be a good other route for us to explore. Gutters seem to work OK but may have a couple leaks so it'd probably help to get those fixed up too. We have 'em cleaned out twice a year. At least some of the gutters are also connected and drain directly to the catch basin... we've heard it would be good to disconnect them and drain to away from the house but that goes back to my wife not wanting the yard to become a swamp. Plus in our neighborhood, houses are very close together with sidewalk in between so there's not a lot of room to drain to. On one side of our house we do have a gravel/rocky area with dirt and stuff underneath that I believe helps some with drainage. Tell your wife it's either the back yard gets wet, or your basement does. Preventing water from draining right next to your basement will be the easiest first step in fixing your problem. If you got sidewalks right up against your house, then caulk that gap. Fix those gutters and downspouts. Make sure they drain away from your foundation. Fix the grading so that surface water flows away from your foundation as best you can. Only loose gravel has good drainage. Even then, water flowing on top of it will want to go straight down, while you want it away from your basement. I think I got an idea if what kind of housing you live in. Let me guess, an alley behind, lined with detached garages on the backs of each property? Also, talk to the city about what exactly is legal for you to do with your sump pump drain and catch basin. Edit: Better yet, if that sidewalk also touches your neighbor's house, talk with your neighbor about caulking his side of the basement too. He might split the cost with you and you'll eliminate another spot for water to get close to your foundation. Caulk any cracks too. They make special caulk for sidewalks. You might want to buy a big caulk gun and get the big caulk tubes. Remember, just like painting, a good caulk job is all about preparation. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Aug 11, 2016 |
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Aug 11, 2016 22:16
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kid sinister posted:
Yep, pretty much. Thanks for all the helpful advice - sounds like we have a good course of action to follow once we get our sewer pipes cleaned out and sump sump pump drainage taken care of. One question though - if it seems like most of the water is coming up through our drains and we're not seeing anything seeping through walls (just an occasional tiny bit through a crack in the floor) how likely is it that drainage is the key issue vs. sewer/pipe backup? Is it just that the more water near the foundation = more water in sump pit = more water to flow into our sewer pipes and get backed up? So the more we can do to drain water away and slow the seeping near our foundation the better? Thanks again to everyone for the replies and advice, it's been super helpful. Weird how I trust the internet more than the plumber/sewer guys that come by! But at least you guys aren't trying to sell me anything and I have a little more time to think it through and understand it better this way.
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Aug 11, 2016 22:49
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If you haven't yet read this, do so: http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/water/supp_info/basement_floodingpartnership.html
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Aug 11, 2016 23:21
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kid sinister posted:Tell your wife it's either the back yard gets wet, or your basement does. So I guess for now she's chosen the basement. Kinda frustrated but I somehow lost that argument! She wants to start with the hydro jetting for now but is afraid to reroute the sump pump drain away from the catch basin. She thinks she heard that it's not legal in Chicago, and that our yard already gets too waterlogged as it is (she reminded me that some parts, especially a corner near our house, don't drain very well at all and wind up with mushrooms from time to time.) I'm still convinced we need to reroute the sump pump drain but I guess that'll have to wait. I'm going to at least try to confirm that it's not against code to drain water into our own yard. She thinks she heard it's not, but I think we're using a reputable enough plumbing company that they wouldn't do anything illegal. And to address her concerns about too much water in the yard, that goes back to the external drainage advice you guys were giving. One thing we might look at is a landscaper to come do a rain garden and other water-friendly type stuff next spring. And now I'm going to re-read the homeownership thread and kick myself for ignoring the "don't buy a house!" advice.
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Aug 12, 2016 05:20
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I can confirm that it is permitted to run a sump to your yard in Chicago. The city would actually love for you to stop putting storm water into their overtaxed (figuratively and literally) pipes.
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Aug 12, 2016 16:32
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And if you're still dumping your downspouts into your sewer, the city or MWRD will happily give you a rain barrel to divert in to. We're still dumping into our sewer in Bridgeport and we don't have a basement, so far no water issues in this 19th century home we bought!
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Aug 12, 2016 19:30
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kid sinister posted:The biggest problem is that removing the old wax ring is messy, plus it can be awkward picking up a toilet while straddling it, trying to guide it onto the flange bolts. lastnight.txt  Sub floor is all soaked and f'd up of course but the toilet works again without leaking (it's obviously been doing that for a long time before it made it out to the floor). Not like it doesn't need it overall, but I'm gonna be gutting this bathroom in the next few months if for nothing other than subfloor. FML. 2nd most expensive room to reno he we go.
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Aug 13, 2016 02:09
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Clevername Lookhere posted:So I guess for now she's chosen the basement. Kinda frustrated but I somehow lost that argument! Let me get this straight: you lost an argument with your wife over a situation that could grow mold and put your entire family in danger? Dude, you really need to learn how to argue.
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Aug 13, 2016 04:40
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Turns out that my toilet and drain issues were due to a full cesspool. Been living here for several years and the cesspool has been full the entire time. I have been looking at it and just assumed the water level was supposed to be almost to the top of the cesspool. $475 later and the new water level is 15 feet lower.
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Aug 13, 2016 09:06
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Nice shower curtain, Motronic. Is this your kid's bathroom?
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Aug 13, 2016 09:39
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kid sinister posted:Nice shower curtain, Motronic. Is this your kid's bathroom? Yep. Poop and learn the world. (It's a gigantic map)
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Aug 13, 2016 16:03
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kid sinister posted:Let me get this straight: you lost an argument with your wife over a situation that could grow mold and put your entire family in danger? Dude, you really need to learn how to argue. Oh come on, it's just a bit of raw sewage, what's the big deal?
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Aug 13, 2016 17:15
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Yeah. I am not a very good arguer and she can be stubborn - not a good combination! I'm gonna keep fighting the good fight though. We'll get it done. Or maybe I'll just show her this thread  As long as I've got you guys, wanna tackle another one? I actually tried to solve it myself based on advice earlier in this thread but no luck. Our basement tub/shower has very bad water pressure. We have no pressure issues anywhere else in the house and everything else in the downstairs bathroom works fine. The pressure is bad with hot water and even worse (almost nonexistent) with cold water. When we turn on the hot water to the shower, it makes a groaning type noise like pressure is building up or something (or maybe there's a blockage?) I'd guessed it was the cartridge, and replaced it this morning but it didn't make a difference. We also know the diverter/faucet isn't an issue because the problem is still there even when we take that off. So if it's not the cartridge is it likely something in the pipes that I should have a pro look at? Any other ideas?
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Aug 13, 2016 18:29
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How old is your house? Do you know if you have galvanized or copper pipes? If they're galv they're likely full of crud and need to be replaced.
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Aug 13, 2016 19:42
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Our house is pretty old (like built in 1918 or so,) so I am guessing galvanized pipes. Pretty sure one of our plumbers mentioned that too.
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Aug 13, 2016 23:34
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Clevername Lookhere posted:Chicago plumbing misery The catch basin can totally be removed. They were installed in Chicago from the 1920's-50's to act as grease and sediment traps. Since Chicago has a combined sewer system as referenced by another Goon, code dictated that homes have the catch basin between the house and the sewer to separate out undesirable crap. If you notice, the catch basin only pulls the drains from the kitchen and basement sinks, unless somebody hosed with it in the past and added drains from other sources. It wouldn't be a bad idea to eliminate the catch basin, but it probably doesn't really affect your situation too much. Do your downspouts head into the ground around the house? If so, you have a drain tile collection system that is dumping rainwater into your sump. This is really bad. Cut your downspouts off 18" above grade and install a bend and kickouts at least five feet into the yard. Your sewer issue can only really be solved (unless Dad's an Alderman and can get your sewer replaced under the street) by not putting so much water into the sanitary sewer. The sump pump discharging into the catch basin is definitely a violation. Get that going out to the yard and straighten out yer wife.
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Aug 14, 2016 02:19
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Newb questions here... I see a few people on Youtube have made outdoor sinks by turning these primer bulbs into foot pumps: https://smile.amazon.com/Universal-Assembly-Outboard-Five-Oceans/dp/B00DI8TL5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-WQMms7up4 What I want to do is put two of those pumps together and make an outdoor shower where you sort or shift your weight from foot to foot to generate pressure. Kind of like a stair-master shower. My question is, before the water reaches the showerhead, is there some kind of bladder I can buy that would expand and hold some water at a high pressure, in order to help keep the shower flowing if I have to stop for a few seconds? Like how a saxophonist puffs their cheeks, but with water.
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Aug 15, 2016 01:53
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So it turns out I'm pretty bad at soldering pipes. Youtube made it look so easy! I soldered some connectors into a shower valve as part of my ongoing shower remodel. Hooked it up last night, and yeah, 2 out of the 4 connections visibly leaked. Any suggestions for how to do a better job? Also what's the best way to clean out the female joint when desoldering? And is there a simple/cheap way I can pressure test my poo poo without hooking it all the way up? Edit: I did buy a bunch of poo poo to just practice with, and have put together a few little copper tube sculptures. I can probably just keep doing that for a while :-P Mao Zedong Thot fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 17:27
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Zero VGS posted:Newb questions here... I see a few people on Youtube have made outdoor sinks by turning these primer bulbs into foot pumps: https://smile.amazon.com/Universal-Assembly-Outboard-Five-Oceans/dp/B00DI8TL5Q A primer bulb should work. Make sure they have check valves at both ends of the bulbs, then make sure you have them in proper orientation for flow. By the way, what's wrong with a regular outdoor gravity shower? so loving future posted:So it turns out I'm pretty bad at soldering pipes. Youtube made it look so easy! I soldered some connectors into a shower valve as part of my ongoing shower remodel. Hooked it up last night, and yeah, 2 out of the 4 connections visibly leaked. Any suggestions for how to do a better job? Also what's the best way to clean out the female joint when desoldering? And is there a simple/cheap way I can pressure test my poo poo without hooking it all the way up? Soldering is all about prep work. Make sure that your pipes are bone dry. If there's any water nearby, it will turn to steam and can blow out the molten solder before it has a chance to harden in the joint gap. If you can't drain your pipes and have to solder a pipe pointing up, I like to use a length of thin plastic hose and pull water out of the pipe, just like getting a straw full of soda at a time. Another good idea is to simply open the valve before you solder. That gives any steam a way to escape besides your joint. Besides that, make sure both the male and female parts of your solder joint are well sanded with plenty of flux, then heat evenly before applying the solder. Speaking of which, do you have a fitting brush? Those are best for cleaning out and preparing female fittings for solder. It's easiest to use one of the matching diameter. Watch out for molten solder when pulling the brush out. The only alternative for pressure testing is with air, so unless you have a compressor and a pressure gauge, I'd stick with water.
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Aug 15, 2016 19:18
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kid sinister posted:A primer bulb should work. Make sure they have check valves at both ends of the bulbs, then make sure you have them in proper orientation for flow. You're saying a primer bulb near the showerhead (as opposed to the ones I'd already be using on the floor) can expand to hold water at-pressure? They didn't seem like they have much give. Should I encase it in something else so it doesn't rupture if I over-pressurize it? This is going to be a shower inside an RV. The reason it can't be a regular gravity shower is because the water from the basin is going to be pumped back up through an activated carbon filter and a UV reactor, creating a sterilized water loop, like they do here: http://showerloop.org/intro/
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Aug 16, 2016 01:21
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Zero VGS posted:You're saying a primer bulb near the showerhead (as opposed to the ones I'd already be using on the floor) can expand to hold water at-pressure? They didn't seem like they have much give. Should I encase it in something else so it doesn't rupture if I over-pressurize it? OK, that's not anywhere close to the outdoor shower you claimed that you wanted. You know what, I'd check the PSI that those filters need to function. I doubt a manual foot pump could make the pressure necessary to get water to the shower head in any reasonable amount of time. And no, the primer bulb was for your pump, not your pressure maintainer. You'd need something like an expansion tank. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 02:56
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kid sinister posted:OK, that's not anywhere close to the outdoor shower you claimed that you wanted. Expansion Tank looks like what I was thinking of for keeping the pressure more consistent, thanks. Yeah, I was mostly hoping if I'm jogging in place on two of those primer bulbs, then my body weight and motion would be enough to generate a good flow rate. The showerloop I linked says that a 90 watt pump is supposed to be plenty to run it, and 90 watts of human effort is like a very relaxed stride on an elliptical or similar. The primer bulbs and expansion tanks look cheap enough that I can just try it and find out how it does.
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Aug 16, 2016 04:58
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Zero VGS posted:Expansion Tank looks like what I was thinking of for keeping the pressure more consistent, thanks. You're assuming that you will get a perfect conversion of energy. Entropy is a bitch. Now that I think about it, an expansion tank is meant for an entire house. It might be too big for one fixture. You might want to try a hammer arrestor instead.
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Aug 16, 2016 05:16
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No get a big expansion tank with plenty of surface area for Legionella pneumophila to grow on. 
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Aug 16, 2016 18:06
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angryrobots posted:No get a big expansion tank with plenty of surface area for Legionella pneumophila to grow on. It still has to make it through a UV reactor to get to the showerhead... if it can survive that, it deserves to make me sick.
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Aug 16, 2016 18:17
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So my kitchen sink/garbage disposal has developed a smell. I went through my usual cleaning routine, run the disposal to clear anything left in the catch then put a cup of ice down it. It worked, but when I came back after a night out the smell was back and worse. Something is rotting in the drain and I could use some advice on what to do about it.
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Sep 2, 2016 18:04
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there wolf posted:So my kitchen sink/garbage disposal has developed a smell. I went through my usual cleaning routine, run the disposal to clear anything left in the catch then put a cup of ice down it. It worked, but when I came back after a night out the smell was back and worse. Something is rotting in the drain and I could use some advice on what to do about it. Check under your sink. Is the trap full of water? Are the pipes leaking enough that the water level can lower enough for sewer gas to come through? How about in the trap itself? Is there something stinky stuck in there and won't go down the drain?
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Sep 2, 2016 19:22
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Yeah, you may have to just cringe & get your hand in there & yank whatever loose from the threshers.
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Sep 3, 2016 14:51
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So I'm trying to fix a dripping shower. I figured I would pull the cartridge out and see if I needed to replace any washers or o-rings, or replace the whole cartridge if needed. I got the handle disassembled but I can't seem to get the cartridge out any further. Is there a trick to getting this disassembled without going inside the wall? 
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Sep 3, 2016 19:15
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Armacham posted:So I'm trying to fix a dripping shower. I figured I would pull the cartridge out and see if I needed to replace any washers or o-rings, or replace the whole cartridge if needed. I got the handle disassembled but I can't seem to get the cartridge out any further. Is there a trick to getting this disassembled without going inside the wall? Think you need some valve wrenches: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Shower-Valve-Wrench-Set-UWP0001J/204284870 On the plus side they double as a musical instrument (you'll see).
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Sep 3, 2016 23:56
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socketwrencher posted:Think you need some valve wrenches: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Shower-Valve-Wrench-Set-UWP0001J/204284870 I have a set and I was able to take off a threaded sleeve. Now there is just the actual body of the valve, but it doesn't have any sort of nut or anything on it to use the valve wrench on. I was thinking of maybe attaching the handle back onto the broach and seeing if it will thread off now that the sleeve holding it is taken off. I just don't want to break it if I'm wrong lol
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Sep 4, 2016 00:06
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Armacham posted:I have a set and I was able to take off a threaded sleeve. Now there is just the actual body of the valve, but it doesn't have any sort of nut or anything on it to use the valve wrench on. I was thinking of maybe attaching the handle back onto the broach and seeing if it will thread off now that the sleeve holding it is taken off. I just don't want to break it if I'm wrong lol Interesting. I've always seen the nut integrated into the body of the valve. Can you back out the nut behind the corrosion? Edit: Sorry- didn't see the second pic!
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Sep 4, 2016 00:18
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