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Crazycryodude posted:Victoria II is probably my favorite Paradox game but then again it seems like there's only about 27 other people on the planet who actually understand and enjoy it so I guess I'm just weird.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:28
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unwantedplatypus posted:So humans have ridden horses, camels, and elephants into combat, as well as occasionally using dogs. What other animals have we used for war? What are the traits which make an animal suitable for use in warfare? HEY GAL posted:hello thread! I just spent like half an hour trying to remember where I heard that first one before there's a folk metal arrangement of it in Black Sails season 1 episode 7.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:38
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Waci posted:But what if they discover more cassowary? How can we be sure this is really maximum cassowary? We'll have no recourse but to change the English language itself.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:55
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The navy found a use for dolphins, but they escaped in hurricane Katrina. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1EBqPZyo88 My favorites are the bits of ordinance strapped to animals. Russia put explosives on dogs and tried training them to run at tanks. Somebody tried using pigeons to steer bombs. America had a very effective bomb developed with little timed incendiary charges tied to a bunch of bats, so that when the bats found little shadowy spots in Japanese buildings, they'd burst into flame. It never saw action because the nuclear bomb came out first.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:57
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:The Age of Maximum Cassowary. (Do note the date.) Sounds delicious.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:My favorites are the bits of ordinance strapped to animals. Russia put explosives on dogs and tried training them to run at tanks. Somebody tried using pigeons to steer bombs. America had a very effective bomb developed with little timed incendiary charges tied to a bunch of bats, so that when the bats found little shadowy spots in Japanese buildings, they'd burst into flame. It never saw action because the nuclear bomb came out first. Chief of the Bureau of Ordnance, Rear Admiral Reuben G. L. Goldberg at your service.
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Sep 3, 2016 23:40
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unwantedplatypus posted:So humans have ridden horses, camels, and elephants into combat, as well as occasionally using dogs. What other animals have we used for war? What are the traits which make an animal suitable for use in warfare? The Allies brought a few hundred homing pigeons ashore with them on D-Day, I believe we also tried to kill Castro with one. Australia fought {and lost) a couple wars against emus.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:07
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Feral_Shofixti posted:The Allies brought a few hundred homing pigeons ashore with them on D-Day, I believe we also tried to kill Castro with one. I think the real statement is what wasn't used in an attempt to kill Castro.
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Sep 4, 2016 00:09
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The British designed an area denial nuke with a live chicken as a component https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock e: hey check out the idiot who can't read half a page back aphid_licker fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 00:58
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Does anybody know anything about an insane backwoods wrestling fad in 17th-century America where the best way to win was to gouge your opponent's eyes out?
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Sep 4, 2016 01:28
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Does anybody know anything about an insane backwoods wrestling fad in 17th-century America where the best way to win was to gouge your opponent's eyes out? 18th and 19th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouging_(fighting_style)
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Sep 4, 2016 01:30
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HEY GAL posted:18th and 19th Thank you I will credit this thread when I start the league up again.
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Sep 4, 2016 01:31
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Grow that thumbnail thick!
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Sep 4, 2016 01:36
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Why did American and German torpedoes have the same laundry list of flaws going in to WW2? Was it a case of convergent evolution and no money to fully test everything during the interwar period, or did someone steal the other guy's notes?
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Sep 4, 2016 01:39
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My only issue with Hoi4 is that it mechanically seems to suggest going full on Deep Operations but then undercuts itself in that you can't assign commanders in a way that's efficient. I liked having the "Theaters" act as "Fronts" for the USSR and then each Army inside it be a corps level organization for achieving specific goals. So I might have two corps of 6 tank divisions each with a corps of 6 infantry divisions with artillery to act as my breakthrough force and then have two corps of motorized infantry behind the line to go fill in the gap and I repeat this along the axis of advance. But then I run out of Generals and then eventually it gets unwieldy once you have 500-600 divisions running around and I have to consolidate to armies of 24 which I find silly. I miss Hoi3's system in this regard and hope they add more depth for customized approaches to command. But I must say, Hoi4 is very impressive when it comes to logistics, often I find myself brought to a dead halt by poor infrastructure/supplies instead the enemy/AI managing to mount a resistance, to the point of having to keep 100+ divisions in the rear to prevent "traffic jams".
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Sep 4, 2016 01:45
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Why hasn't the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXusKM5uX0s* raid on St. Nazaire ever been made in to a movie? Is it because there is SO MUCH over the top, unbelievable heroics by a group of British Soldiers and Sailors straight out of central casting you can't actually fit it into one movie and have any audience believe it? The stand out is the stammering bomb maker who can't talk to his girlfriend ,who steps over 2 bodies that died a second earlier, takes the wheel of a 5000 ton Destroyer from a Royal Engineer who has no idea what he's doing, and says "Don't worry chap, I've got it". Then he realises at the last second he's headed to the wrong Ending with a shot of a furious Hitler demanding that the NEXT time the British Commando's try something like that again, every one of them will be shot. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * - Apologies for using Jeremy Clackson, but I just spent an hour watching it, and it's even more over the top and unbelievable than I'd known. 5 guys escaped all the way to Spain!
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Sep 4, 2016 01:48
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TasogareNoKagi posted:Why did American and German torpedoes have the same laundry list of flaws going in to WW2? Was it a case of convergent evolution and no money to fully test everything during the interwar period, or did someone steal the other guy's notes? It was a case of insufficient testing and incompetence on the part of the bureaucrats that were supposed to ensure the torpedo's effectiveness. Dontiz threw the rear Admiral in prison for 6 months once he learned about it, a rare example of the Nazis being efficient. The Americans took a bit longer.... Also this was posted in GBS and seems worth reposting:
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Sep 4, 2016 01:50
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Raenir Salazar posted:But I must say, Hoi4 is very impressive when it comes to logistics, often I find myself brought to a dead halt by poor infrastructure/supplies instead the enemy/AI managing to mount a resistance, to the point of having to keep 100+ divisions in the rear to prevent "traffic jams". The one thing about HoI4's logistics that gets me is that I can't manually set the path for supplies to flow through. I hate how the logistics pathing ignores that nice big port I took for the express purpose of supplying my advance and instead decides to send a trickle through an underdeveloped overland route even though I've got naval superiority and plenty of convoys all lined up for that port because its stupid and is weighted towards land routes or whatever. Apparently it's been improved some since I ragequit, though.
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Sep 4, 2016 02:05
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Nebakenezzer posted:Also this was posted in GBS and seems worth reposting: Not sure whether I laughed harder at Russia getting the poo poo kicked out of him or little  Italy about to steam into the fray.
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Sep 4, 2016 02:41
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:Not sure whether I laughed harder at Russia getting the poo poo kicked out of him or little i'm still weirded out by there being two germanies
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Sep 4, 2016 02:53
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P-Mack posted:i'm still weirded out by there being two germanies That's 50 years too soon at least
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Sep 4, 2016 03:16
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unwantedplatypus posted:That's 50 years too soon at least Prussia versus "Germany" maybe? quote:Apologies for using Jeremy Clackson Why? Face punching aside he's a good presenter in that and I like his genuine appreciation for military history.
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Sep 4, 2016 03:20
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Raenir Salazar posted:Prussia versus "Germany" maybe? It looks to me like it's supposed to represent WW1 and the artist couldn't figure out a way to represent the Germany was fighting on both the Eastern and Western Fronts other than making two of them.
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Sep 4, 2016 03:22
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Raenir Salazar posted:Why? Face punching aside he's a good presenter in that and I like his genuine appreciation for military history. And, sure, face-punching the producer was a dick move, but he also face-punched Piers Morgan, which is downright praiseworthy.
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Sep 4, 2016 03:22
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Elyv posted:It looks to me like it's supposed to represent WW1 and the artist couldn't figure out a way to represent the Germany was fighting on both the Eastern and Western Fronts other than making two of them. Yeah, the left side is the Western front, the right side is the Eastern front.
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Sep 4, 2016 03:26
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Feral_Shofixti posted:The Allies brought a few hundred homing pigeons ashore with them on D-Day... They had a proven record, one of the best examples being named G.I. Joe: quote:During the Italian Campaign of World War II, G.I. Joe saved the lives of the inhabitants of the village of Calvi Vecchia, Italy, and of the British troops of 56th (London) Infantry Division occupying it. Air support had been requested against German positions at Calvi Vecchia on 18 October 1943, but the message that the 169th (London) Infantry Brigade had captured the village, delivered by G.I. Joe, arrived just in time to avoid the bombing. G.I. Joe flew this 20 mile distance in an impressive 20 minutes, just as the planes were preparing to take off for the target. Up to a thousand men were saved.[1]
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Sep 4, 2016 03:28
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unwantedplatypus posted:So humans have ridden horses, camels, and elephants into combat, as well as occasionally using dogs. What other animals have we used for war? What are the traits which make an animal suitable for use in warfare? People have responded with some species, but the traits is an interesting question. I would say the three biggest are trainability, enough mental strength to keep it together, and a combination of endurance and easy enough care that they won't overly burden logistics, weighing against whatever advantage they are providing. So as amazing as they could be, we never saw many cats on the battlefield, because a tiger's astounding physical prowess is immaterial if he's just going to wash himself and then go to sleep. I suppose you could replace trainability with predictability, but most higher-order life is going to have a big range of possible behavior. Fake edit; It also occurs that these are broadly similar to what you want in human soldiers as well.
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Sep 4, 2016 06:58
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We use pigeons for utility. What about hawks? Stab someone's eyes out?
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Sep 4, 2016 07:08
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Raenir Salazar posted:We use pigeons for utility. During Franco-Prussian war the besieged Parisians used pigeons to stay in contact with outside world; in consequence, Prussians employed hawks to catch the pigeons. The next step was to use balloons to transport the pigeons safely past the lines. MI5 also had its own peregrine falcon division during WW2 to counter German spies: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1999/01/99/wartime_spies/263333.stm quote:According to documents now held at the Public Record Office in Kew, London, at least two of the captured pigeons became "prisoners of war". Oh apparently in UK there also was a medal for animals that had shown gallantry, the Dickin Medal, awarded to 32 pigeons, 18 dogs, three horses, and one cat until 1949 (and then a bunch of dogs after 2000). Nenonen fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 07:21
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P-Mack posted:What I like about the Taiping proto-communism is that British observers get really obviously mad at it, but don't yet have the language and ideological framework of capitalist/communist conflict to describe why beyond complaining about "injury to trade." Wait, why don't they? Didn't Marx publish before the Taiping war started?
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Sep 4, 2016 09:18
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Raenir Salazar posted:Prussia versus "Germany" maybe? I remember there was an episode of Top Gear where I think they'd just got a new Reasonably Priced Car and Al Murray (a british comedian perhaps best known for his role as The Pub Landlord) was one of the celebrities that came out to drive it, and at one point it cut to the two of them discussing WWII tanks. Actually Murray did a whole documentary series called Al Murray's Road to Berlin, which was pretty good as I recall.
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Sep 4, 2016 09:22
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Wait, why don't they? Didn't Marx publish before the Taiping war started? That doesn't mean every Victorian had read and digested Das Kapital, though!
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Sep 4, 2016 09:30
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Nenonen posted:During Franco-Prussian war the besieged Parisians used pigeons to stay in contact with outside world; in consequence, Prussians employed hawks to catch the pigeons. The next step was to use balloons to transport the pigeons safely past the lines. The most recent recipient was a horse who carried ammo in Korea. The horse also had a statue made at the Marine Corps museum recently.
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Sep 4, 2016 12:10
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unwantedplatypus posted:So humans have ridden horses, camels, and elephants into combat, as well as occasionally using dogs. What other animals have we used for war? What are the traits which make an animal suitable for use in warfare? Biting and stinging insects like scorpions or assassin bugs were occasionally loaded into clay jars and chucked at besiegers. In the fascist war against Ethiopia, the Ethiopians sometimes dropped beehives on Italian tanks and caused them to crash. And of course various poisons & venoms were sometimes extracted to coat weapons, like the Arrow Frog's.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:17
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Supposedly there was an incident about a thousand years ago in China where they coated monkeys in flammable material and sent them into enemy camps. It sounds like one of those things that got passed down to quack 18th century European "historians" through a game of telephone, though.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:40
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Awesome animalchat. (Or maybe faunachat?) Anyway, some things that bug me as I ponder the notion of a United Earth Defense Forces (space force, but also ground force, air force, naval force) for a sci-fi thing I'm doing: 1. Why do we, in the modern age, teach servicemembers close order drill? (I have my suspected reasons, and would be interested in seeing people's guesses why, but I'm kind of looking for the "accepted explanation" here, too - I never learned the stated reason, really, since I could never enlist (thanks, 20/80 corrected vision in better eye, with 10 degrees central field in the better eye - take away all my dreams why don't ya? ) Be they enlisted or officer.2. Setting aside issues of legality and war crimes and so forth (they're absolutely relevant but there's reasons I'm not considering them with this question), what's the youngest age at which it is actually practical to begin modern-style military training without doing physical/mental long-term damage to the trainee? Mind you, they wouldn't see operational service until at least 18 in this setting, so most of the time would be occupied by specialty training and the like, but I'm wondering at what age it begins to get practical to actually engage in, say, infantry training. (There's in-universe reasons why they're considering training under-18s as military personnel.) 3. What's the absolute longest that it's useful to have someone in a boot camp/basic training environment? (Is there anybody who has initial entry training for enlisted (or the equivalent phase of officer training) last longer than 12-13 weeks, at least as scheduled? Note that I'm not including specialty/MOS training in that, just the initial entry training.) Would there actually be a benefit to basic training lasting longer than 3 months? (Presume for the purposes of 3 that money/resource management is not a necessary consideration yet, just that everything else is.) Yes, I'm doing this for sci-fi, and yes I can (and likely will) use artistic license a lot, but my thought process is that it's going to be a near-future setting time and (mostly) tech-wise. So I may as well learn about the real factors behind the stuff I mentioned before I apply artistic license, so I can do it with a clue.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:51
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Wait, why don't they? Didn't Marx publish before the Taiping war started? The manifesto yes, but Das Kapital only came out after the war. Even the manifesto was pretty obscure at the time, though, and certainly nowhere near the terrifying spectre it would later become. Marx wrote a bunch of contemporary editorials about China, but they're mostly about condemning the opium wars and British trade policy rather than in depth analysis of the rebellions as anything other than symptoms of economic crisis.
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Sep 4, 2016 13:59
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Spacewolf posted:Awesome animalchat. (Or maybe faunachat?) Anyway, some things that bug me as I ponder the notion of a United Earth Defense Forces (space force, but also ground force, air force, naval force) for a sci-fi thing I'm doing: 1: Partly for the same reason they're taught to make their beds and fold their underwear precisely. It teaches attention to detail, properly following orders, uniformity, things like that. It also teaches responsibility for and relying on the team, because it looks and feels pretty dope when everyone's perfectly in step, but if one person messes up it can throw everyone else off. 2: I don't know. It also depends how you define "modern-style military training". Does it include high school JROTC? If someone in 5th grade wears a uniform and learns rifle safety and marksmanship in the Boy Scouts, is that military-style training? 3: If you're excluding any actual occupational training and this is strictly indoc, there's probably not much to be gained past 12 weeks. Maybe in the future there are some technologies that require more extensive training, but then it's not basic training anymore, it's an actual occupational school. I also wouldn't discount resource management if you consider that the recruits are a resource. Their purpose is to be doing stuff out in the field/fleet/asteroid belt or whatever. If there's an active existential conflict, countries throughout recent history have also dialed back training just to get bodies out there, "yeah, ask your corporal when you get to your unit, no point in teaching you right now".
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Sep 4, 2016 14:19
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Spacewolf posted:Awesome animalchat. (Or maybe faunachat?) Anyway, some things that bug me as I ponder the notion of a United Earth Defense Forces (space force, but also ground force, air force, naval force) for a sci-fi thing I'm doing: In the Marines it's taught at boot camp as part of instilling good order, discipline, and quick obeying of orders. There's also the tradition of it and it's continued use in ceremonies (daily accountability formation, form for unit pt, retirements, promotions, change of command, etc). Officer wise there is not as much focus on it after entry level training unless you get tagged for one of the ceremonies. Then you've got things like the silent drill team and 8th&i barracks where it's used to put on a show for civilians
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Sep 4, 2016 14:22
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So hey is this for real? http://forward.com/news/world/349179/poland-poised-to-put-bad-historians-in-prison/ because lmao
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Sep 4, 2016 15:07
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