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Exmond posted:I dunno, this one man group seems to have buffed steel phalanx a lot. Hard to counter mass odd with Ariadna if you are limited to one combat group It seems tailor made for my meta. I'm not sure they actually like the game though, they seem to be more veteranplayers from N2 that feEl like N3 is too much or something. At least the most vocal ones anyway. I like to play Kazak heavy vanilla anyway so it doesn't matter too much to me. Flame throwers and chain rifles and doggies are my answers to everything.
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Sep 3, 2016 19:37
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Single combat group definitely does not magically fix any metagame problems. If anything it might make somethings way worse. But it's a nice options for TOs to have.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:48
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Organized my first ITS tournament and the first one in my town yesterday. 10 players including me. Great success (apart from the ITS page not working probably, but what else is new?). Played supremacy, highly classified and frontline. In my last game vs nomads I was in loss of liutenant for three turns because I deployed my unidron fire team with nexus lt badly and lost him to a heavy flamer bot. Then I lost my sphinx Lt (it was the only non remote model left alive) after it had taken two wounds in my active turn. Good times, would tournament again (although CBs system leaves something to be desired. Several players couldn't upload lists and it randomly changed the tournament to limited insertion, but only for me  )E no pics because the Awful iOS app is a mean jerk Not a viking fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 06:00
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admanb posted:Single combat group definitely does not magically fix any metagame problems. If anything it might make somethings way worse. But it's a nice options for TOs to have. Very true, but it is entirely worthwhile for the supreme amount of Ariadna 
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Sep 4, 2016 10:30
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to be fair it's worth it just for the official forum tears but it's such a huge attempt at a bandaid fix I feel bad for CB.
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Sep 4, 2016 11:34
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I know smug Infinity players like to bandy about the term 'It's not your list, it's you', but there are definitely list building components with optimal/suboptimal choices. While no faction is obviously 'underpowered' (Though some sectorials are below par), Ariadna is definitely the best of them. This is largely because modelcount and trading is so powerful in Infinity, and their weapons/mans are cheap enough that they can have a glut of specialists and not suffer for it. They definitely have some weaknesses (TO/ODD, doubly on HI), but those weaknesses tend to only be obvious in the reactive turn, as they usually have the order count to ram a dog into it, or any number of cheap kamikazes to trade. This is compounded by, at least in my experience, Ariadna players being the worst sort of players, attitude wise - Though this is probably confirmation bias, unlikely to notice positive behaviors as people don't pass along good actions, just bad ones. Whenever I have to go adjudicate something at a table, it's an Ariadna player. I ran a small tournament recently, and one of the Ariadna players complained, without fail, every round about the fact it was an ITS tournament and how bad ITS is. Plus, they straight up told their opponent that their faction, Tohaa, was OP bullshit. Telling your opponent that their faction/list is OP mid-game is about the lowest point of sportsmanship, as the subtext is '... And you wouldn't be winning if not for your OP Faction' (I realize the hypocrisy of typing this in an 'Ariadna is a powerful faction' spiel). This is why I have like 0 sympathy for Ariadna tears  Maybe it's because the most 'modern military' faction tends to attract the grognardiest players? idk also hmg spetznaz is like whoa
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Sep 4, 2016 13:58
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My local store has just announced its first ITS of the new season is 400 points single combat group, with killing-focused scenarios rather than specialist-heavy ones. Unsurprisingly the most vocal players in the group, who seem to be most effective at swaying the TOs decisions, all play either Pan-O or Nomads - so I fully expect to see multiple double- or triple-TAG lists.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:08
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Yeah, PanO and ALEPH are the factions where One Order Pool 400pts seems to be most advantaged. I don't think the one order pool rule should be used in conjunction with a 400pt tourney.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:15
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good guy pano, best faction. There's definitely some confirmation bias when it comes to Ariadna, but the official community for them is full of whining crybabies whenever any change challenges their position as the easy mode dominant faction. Not to mention it's a faction chock-full of the most irritating things to play against. Agreed on suboptimal lists, Infinity is far more forgiving than other games but I hate the idea of telling a new player "you can just play whatever *shrug" because that is false, they can play the models they like, certainly but they do need to support them with the rest of the list or risk just handicapping themselves.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:25
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 Tohaa──────────────────────────────────────────────────  10  ECTROS Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 43) GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33) GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31) ECTROS Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 43) GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31) GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33) GORGOS Squad Chaksa Peripheral B undefined. (2 | 82) GORGOS AP Spitfire, Flammenspeer, Pulzar +1 Chaksa Peripheral B / Shock CCW. (2 | 82)  CHAKSA PERIPHERAL B Pulzar / Pistol, Knife. (4) RASAIL Viral Combi Rifle + 1 Chaksa Peripheral / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) CHAKSA PERIPHERAL Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (- | 4) RASAIL Viral Combi Rifle + 1 Chaksa Peripheral / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) CHAKSA PERIPHERAL Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (- | 4) KUMOTAIL Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)7 SWC | 399 Points Open in Infinity Army It almosy impossible to hit 400 points in 10 models in Tohaa. I could actually field this. Edit: USAriadna woukd be so hosed in that stupid format. 3 Devil dogs, 3 Blackjacks, Van Zant, and the Unknown Ranger leaves you two spots to spend more than 100 points. dexefiend fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 14:31
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dexefiend posted:
Tohaa────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 GORGOS Squad Chaksa Peripheral B . (2 | 82) GORGOS AP Spitfire, Flammenspeer, Pulzar +1 Chaksa Peripheral B / Shock CCW. (2 | 82) CHAKSA PERIPHERAL B Pulzar / Pistol, Knife. (4) NEEMA Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust, Nanopulser / Viral Pistol, Shock CCW. (+1 | 46) HATAIL AELIS KEESAN Viral Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) ECTROS HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 45) SUKEUL (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) SUKEUL (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) TAQEUL (Chain of Command) Viral Combi Rifle, SymbioBugs / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) NIKOUL Minelayer Viral Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30)8 SWC | 397 Points Open in Infinity Army I have no idea what I'm doing. Specialists, tho.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:47
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Sukeul are so rad. K1s and a missile launcher...
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Sep 4, 2016 14:48
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Flipswitch posted:Agreed on suboptimal lists, Infinity is far more forgiving than other games but I hate the idea of telling a new player "you can just play whatever *shrug" because that is false, they can play the models they like, certainly but they do need to support them with the rest of the list or risk just handicapping themselves.
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Sep 4, 2016 14:54
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Ilor posted:I think the thing here is that there aren't really any bad units (although there are few "meh" profiles), but finding stuff that works well together is a little trickier. Infinity doesn't really have the rock-paper-scissors problem, but you can definitely handicap yourself during the list-building phase - especially if you're playing ITS missions that rely on having specialists. I think this is compounded at lower point levels where it is hard to fit in good strikers, specialists, support and some redundancy so if, for example, your doctor catches a crit on the first turn you have a paramedic for the classified too.
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Sep 4, 2016 15:27
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Sir Teabag posted:I like Isobel as a model, but the Wardriver is more cost effective at 200 points. Plus if you are using blackjack in its sectorial you can't use Isobel. Hmm, thanks! I will have to get a Dozer cause those little remotes are super cute.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:21
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WAR FOOT posted:I know smug Infinity players like to bandy about the term 'It's not your list, it's you', but there are definitely list building components with optimal/suboptimal choices. While no faction is obviously 'underpowered' (Though some sectorials are below par), Ariadna is definitely the best of them. This is largely because modelcount and trading is so powerful in Infinity, and their weapons/mans are cheap enough that they can have a glut of specialists and not suffer for it. They definitely have some weaknesses (TO/ODD, doubly on HI), but those weaknesses tend to only be obvious in the reactive turn, as they usually have the order count to ram a dog into it, or any number of cheap kamikazes to trade. As a Ariadna player, I can totally attest to this. We all hate playing this game and are super milspergs. We also kick puppies, steal candy from children, and hate Christmas.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:50
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I'm pretty sure I'm still reeling from the first time I went against a tankhunter back in like 2011.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:52
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Gonna complain about the players when they use a clunky camo mechanic instead if blamin CB for makin a clunky camo mechanic.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:55
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The camo mechanic is totally fine. It's not even really a huge balance problem. Ariadna just has a lot of efficiently costed models that take heavy advantages of the bonuses given by camo, template weapons, infiltration, and so on. admanb fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 04:51
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tokenbrownguy posted:As a Ariadna player, I can totally attest to this. We all hate playing this game and are super milspergs. We also kick puppies, steal candy from children, and hate Christmas. pretty standard ariadna reply tbh
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Sep 5, 2016 10:14
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also camo is a fine mechanic, it's just most people expected (back then) that a camo marker contained like a light infantry with rifle and mines or MAYBE a sniper rifle, so it was a perfect infinity surprise. Tankhunters are completely appropriately costed, as once they blow their load they have victim stats, and they're expensive enough that killing them actually stings.
Clawtopsy fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 10:18
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I wanna play 800pt Limited Insertion. TAGs only, no classifieds, Final Destination.
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Sep 5, 2016 11:10
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A really expensive version of heavy gear.
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Sep 5, 2016 13:05
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Flipswitch posted:A really expensive version of heavy gear.  And it could be a holy-poo poo-epic game to watch.
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Sep 5, 2016 13:26
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Since my last post, I've managed a few extra games of Infinity. Was completely destroyed in the fourth Ice Storm match, which stopped my streak of beginner's luck. Then the next game I rolled terribly for two turns, and then a Lunokhod went crazy and pretty much stormed the board, wiping 4 people in 2 turns. We're running a noob-friendly tournament at our local club. Is anyone familiar with this? The first 3 games are Occupy Buildings, Coding Sequence and Border Clash. With advice from a mate, I've put together this list, mostly from things I own, although I'll be using proxies while waiting on a delivery to turn up. Is this good/bad? Any advice or changes people would suggest?  Nomads────────────────────────────────────────────────── 7  1  PROWLER Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 36) LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25) INTRUDER (X-Visor) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 43) MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)3.5 SWC | 200 Points Open in Infinity Army
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Sep 5, 2016 13:58
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I just had a flashback from my last game this weekend where a Lunokod stormed and killed half my fire team and my liutenant 
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Sep 5, 2016 16:04
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I'm going to disagree about camo being fine. Camo is fine when it isn't spammed. It isn't fine when it is spammed in a turn limited format, unless you've got some very specific magic bullets in your list to deal with it. The issue is that Infinity is a lot like games like Netrunner, where it is less about fighting and more about accomplishing a task efficiently while taxing the other player's ability to perform that task. When they spam camo, especially infiltrating camo that often brings fake markers and minelayer, it creates a situation where a guy with tons of orders has a list that costs you tons of orders to interact with that is already in position to win the game without him needing to spend more than a couple of his huge pile of orders. Then add in that all his stuff is markers so you don't know what is a sniper rifle and what is a mine. It puts you in a very deep, and frankly unfair, hole before a die is even rolled. It is a MK2 Cryx situation, where the faction has options when spammed is just plain OPOPOPOPOPOP against an unprepared list, except everyone is making lists with silver bullets specifically for it. Doesn't make it balanced, makes it a hosed up unbalanced situation that is somewhat under control because everyone who got burned by it is specifically ready for the gotcha. The rest of the game happens to be solidly balanced so the entire game doesn't go fully down the rabbit hole into gotcha roulette. (Infinity also has the huge bonus of their internal faction balance being very very good to sugar coat the situation... where it wasn't and still really isn't the case with WM). Stuff like ODD heavy SP lists are not really in the same category, in that while you have to fight them in a particular way but are not screwed if you didn't specifically load some silver bullets into your list just for them. You don't put flame throwers and mines into a list for SP, you put them in to deal with a whole lot of stuff in the game and they are still massively useful even if not used as tech against a specific category of targets. You put a sensor in your list because 99% Ariadna camo spam. (Except Ariadna, who put Antipodes in because Antipodes, and hey look they randomly have 3x super fast, super cheap, camo markers with sensor now). Of course, ODD heavy SP is less of a thing because SP players now have non ODD units with actual models that are just as appealing as the ODD units. SP was spamming ODD because they generally didn't have other models to use for the most part, not because they were spamming a rule for its compounding effect. ODD spam will likely drop off even more if the new Thorakite models don't look like poo poo too.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:32
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You can't put Phoenix and Machaon in a Thorakite link so it really won't.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:43
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WAR FOOT posted:also camo is a fine mechanic, it's just most people expected (back then) that a camo marker contained like a light infantry with rifle and mines or MAYBE a sniper rifle, so it was a perfect infinity surprise. Tankhunters are completely appropriately costed, as once they blow their load they have victim stats, and they're expensive enough that killing them actually stings. pretty standard ariadna reply tbh
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Sep 6, 2016 01:45
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joke's on you, i don't play ariadna 
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Sep 6, 2016 04:37
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I'm looking to get back into Infinity for a while, but I need to read up a bit first. I've picked up the new Human Sphere, but I was wondering if there was a pretty decent primer to any changes in the game/community for the last couple of years I've been away. Is the OP still pretty good, or are there things that I need to know in order to just jump back in and start reading posts? Oh, and is there a thread for the RPG?
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Sep 6, 2016 05:43
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Have you played since the second edition? The N3 switch brought some significant changes, but none that make the game unrecognizable. The most concrete difference is probably in how command tokens function. Check those rules, play a few games, and you can worry about the small stuff like the hacking changes as you go along. The RPG doesn't come up much. There's not much to talk about with so much of the game tied up in production. Nonetheless, my Infinity group and I are hyped for a campaign. My bud and I already messed around with the character generator. I ended up a Werewolf Linebacker and he was a Nomad zero-g salvager who had already died two times before play. We're going to switch from our Feng Shui campaign to the Infinity RPG and see how it stacks up.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:03
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Cyclomatic posted:(Except Ariadna, who put Antipodes in because Antipodes, and hey look they randomly have 3x super fast, super cheap, camo markers with sensor now). Holy poo poo I need an Antipode Pack.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:16
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I have played a few second-ed games, yeah. I drop in from time to time. I was just wondering if there was any major news that I needed to know about that sorta informs peoples posting as of late. Any big shakeups or stuff coming down the line other than the regular model releases.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:19
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Fix posted:I'm looking to get back into Infinity for a while, but I need to read up a bit first. I've picked up the new Human Sphere, but I was wondering if there was a pretty decent primer to any changes in the game/community for the last couple of years I've been away. Is the OP still pretty good, or are there things that I need to know in order to just jump back in and start reading posts? http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Summary_of_Edition_Changes Recent major news was Gencon and Interplanetario - usual major convention stuff, near future releases and the like. Post if you want something in particular. I don't think there was a RPG thread on SA, it's still unreleased and posting's sparse enough than we could accommodate it here.
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Sep 6, 2016 12:23
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Cyclomatic posted:Stuff like ODD heavy SP lists are not really in the same category, in that while you have to fight them in a particular way but are not screwed if you didn't specifically load some silver bullets into your list just for them. You don't put flame throwers and mines into a list for SP, you put them in to deal with a whole lot of stuff in the game and they are still massively useful even if not used as tech against a specific category of targets. You put a sensor in your list because 99% Ariadna camo spam. (Except Ariadna, who put Antipodes in because Antipodes, and hey look they randomly have 3x super fast, super cheap, camo markers with sensor now). Of course, ODD heavy SP is less of a thing because SP players now have non ODD units with actual models that are just as appealing as the ODD units. SP was spamming ODD because they generally didn't have other models to use for the most part, not because they were spamming a rule for its compounding effect. ODD spam will likely drop off even more if the new Thorakite models don't look like poo poo too. ODD heavy lists are the same as Camo heavy lists. The meta has changed to accept them and both are pretty crushing to someone with an un-optimized list.
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Sep 6, 2016 15:33
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Jesus. Why is it so hard to explain math to the people on the Infinity forums?
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Sep 6, 2016 22:24
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Ilor posted:Jesus. Why is it so hard to explain math to the people on the Infinity forums?
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Sep 6, 2016 22:27
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Pierzak posted:Is it the "mimetism is literally +3 BS" thing again?
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Sep 6, 2016 22:41
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Man, it's not even a math issue. They just straight up have no idea what you're talking about.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:53
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