Korea Thread: Fumbling to take a bite of kimchi

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Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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# ? Sep 5, 2016 13:57

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 03:54

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Homework Explainer posted:

unsurprising he'd get that kind of review. if you actually read it he isn't sunny on the dprk at all and has plenty of condemnation for the kims. but anything that even whiffs of heterodoxy re: north korea is sure to receive that sort of response in the press

I'm not an academic but I don't see Cumings' viewpoint as heterodox, just woefully out of date. Likewise Myers' thesis isn't orthodox, but his assertions have gradually gained acceptance since he published The Cleanest Race. Myers probably doesn't ingratiate himself with experienced scholars by serving up his research with a side of "...and this would be obvious to the rest of you, if learning Korean was actually required in the field of North Korean studies."

# ? Sep 6, 2016 06:41

mediadave: Sep 8, 2011

Halloween Jack posted:

Myers probably doesn't ingratiate himself with experienced scholars by serving up his research with a side of "...and this would be obvious to the rest of you, if learning Korean was actually required in the field of North Korean studies."

Lets be honest though, it is a bit ludicrous how many North Korea 'experts' can't even speak the language.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 12:59

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Halloween Jack posted:

I'm not an academic but I don't see Cumings' viewpoint as heterodox, just woefully out of date. Likewise Myers' thesis isn't orthodox, but his assertions have gradually gained acceptance since he published The Cleanest Race. Myers probably doesn't ingratiate himself with experienced scholars by serving up his research with a side of "...and this would be obvious to the rest of you, if learning Korean was actually required in the field of North Korean studies."

i dunno, equating fascism and communism seems to flow pretty easily from orthodox sovietology. he's not wrong that academics should learn korean, though. the foreign press, too. iirc during the seventh party congress no western media outlet bothered to send a korean-speaking correspondent

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:39

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Homework Explainer posted:

i dunno, equating fascism and communism seems to flow pretty easily from orthodox sovietology.

He doesn't equate them, he asserts that North Korea was never meaningfully Communist beyond their political alignment during the Cold War, repeatedly pointing out the ideological poverty of juche and the regime's lack of interest in providing anyone with an education in Marxism-Leninism. (He describes their propaganda as a fascist's idea of what communist propaganda should look like.)

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:58

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

Yeah, they destroyed the last of their marx and lenin stuff a few years ago and went 100% Juche.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:51

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Their economic system certainly strikes me as having been communist up until the mid-90's famine, or as communist as it is possible to be in practice. It's true that since then, they've been moving in the direction of China where ideology comes second to the survival of the regime, though obviously with much more repression and isolationism.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 16:21

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Uncle Jam posted:

Yeah, they destroyed the last of their marx and lenin stuff a few years ago and went 100% Juche.

Phlegmish posted:

Their economic system certainly strikes me as having been communist up until the mid-90's famine, or as communist as it is possible to be in practice. It's true that since then, they've been moving in the direction of China where ideology comes second to the survival of the regime, though obviously with much more repression and isolationism.

Juche was always a bland, vague doctrine of nationalist self-sufficiency, designed to prop up Kim Il Sung as an intellectual and court sympathy from leftists and anti-establishment groups in other countries (the Black Panther Party published articles on Juche in its newsletter). Leaving all mention of communism and socialism out of their new constitution is damning in and of itself. As is the fact that to Koreans, "Juche Thought" is just synonymous with North Korean propaganda, which mostly amounts to praising the Kims, damning their enemies, and retelling a distorted history.

Whether nor not North Korea is or was Communist doesn't hinge on their economic organization, in my view. There was always market activity going on in North Korea; when the DPRK was young it began establishing policies on what could and couldn't be sold privately. (The chief example being that it was forbidden to buy and sell grain, but livestock and other produce were allowed.) Historically, North Koreans haven't perceived any conflict between small-scale entrepreneuership and loyalty to the regime and its ideology. The difference post-famine is that the welfare state has severely broken down and most of the country is relying on market activity to survive.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 17:19

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Main Paineframe posted:

For this point, you don't need to look any farther than Israel, which refuses to officially confirm or deny that it does or does not have nuclear weapons (but everyone knows it does). They don't say anything about their nuclear deterrent or even claim that they have one; just coyly dancing around the subject is enough.

israel's in the situation where they dont want to spur their most likely adversaries to get nukes of their own - if israel was balls out, saudia arabia and iran would be all about it

however, north korea's biggest adversaries - the us, south korea, and japan, and maybe kinda sorta china - all have nukes or share nukes

the big reason to own nukes is so that other people think twice before invading you. israel already has military superiority, and wants to keep that nuke secret as an ace in the hole. north korea needs to desperately catch up with nukes to secure themselves from an (unlikely) invasion and also to extract concessions, both of which would be easier if north korea could point menacingly at a credible nuclear warhead

Uncle Jam posted:

Yes it's difficult to do but it's possible. They launched a satellite, which is also difficult. Also, while north Korea is completely cut from the US, they enjoy business relationships with many other countries. Not only that, but NK is always inviting over foreign professors and things like PUST exist.

North Korea is mad hosed up but thinking it's a technically illiterate country wide prison is a pretty gross underestimation.

read more carefully dude - im not saying they can't. i'm saying that north korea hasn't demonstrated any capacity greater than basically a nuclear VBIED. we have no idea how bulky the actual north korean bomb is so we don't know what they can do with it. just making a nuclear explosive isn't as hard as making one that can be strapped to a missile

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 7, 2016

# ? Sep 7, 2016 17:21

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Halloween Jack posted:

Juche was always a bland, vague doctrine of nationalist self-sufficiency, designed to prop up Kim Il Sung as an intellectual and court sympathy from leftists and anti-establishment groups in other countries (the Black Panther Party published articles on Juche in its newsletter). Leaving all mention of communism and socialism out of their new constitution is damning in and of itself. As is the fact that to Koreans, "Juche Thought" is just synonymous with North Korean propaganda, which mostly amounts to praising the Kims, damning their enemies, and retelling a distorted history.

Whether nor not North Korea is or was Communist doesn't hinge on their economic organization, in my view. There was always market activity going on in North Korea; when the DPRK was young it began establishing policies on what could and couldn't be sold privately. (The chief example being that it was forbidden to buy and sell grain, but livestock and other produce were allowed.) Historically, North Koreans haven't perceived any conflict between small-scale entrepreneuership and loyalty to the regime and its ideology. The difference post-famine is that the welfare state has severely broken down and most of the country is relying on market activity to survive.

If limited market activity is enough to disqualify a given country or regime from being communist, then no communist country has ever existed. Which is perhaps true, but it's not a very useful statement. Of course, you won't see me deny that they're jettisoning this aspect of their official ideology and that the process has been going on for a long time, decades even.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 18:02

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

That is not the point. The point is that the regime's propagandists don't have a problem with market activity per se, because they don't give a drat for Marxism-Leninism, they haven't since about 1955, I suppose, and never made any concerted effort to teach Marxism-Leninism to the North Korean citizenry. I'd say the closest they came to both preaching and practicing communism were the successful mass mobilization campaigns of the 50s and 60s that served the dual purpose of economic development and inculcating loyalty to the Kim personality cult.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 18:39

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Halloween Jack posted:

That is not the point. The point is that the regime's propagandists don't have a problem with market activity per se, because they don't give a drat for Marxism-Leninism, they haven't since about 1955, I suppose, and never made any concerted effort to teach Marxism-Leninism to the North Korean citizenry. I'd say the closest they came to both preaching and practicing communism were the successful mass mobilization campaigns of the 50s and 60s that served the dual purpose of economic development and inculcating loyalty to the Kim personality cult.

It strikes me as a rather inane statement that being communist or not has nothing to do with economic organization since that is the entire basis of communism, and indeed, the mode of production within a given society is considered primordial by Marxists themselves. North Korea had, and to some extent still has, a centrally planned economy with state ('collective') ownership of the means of production. Plans and production targets for every economic sector are created and set by government committees. It is, or was, a communist country by any reasonable historical definition.

The fact that the regime has always preferred to indoctrinate its subjects with Juche rather than with orthodox Marxism-Leninism (whether or not they give a drat for the latter), and that they are currently allowing relatively far-reaching marketization, doesn't change anything about the way the North Korean economy was organized up until at least the famine. It's merely an interesting qualifier, and not even a very exceptional one, since in many East Bloc countries the self-perpetuation of the elite eventually took precedence over ideology. Even the use of nationalist and xenophobic rhetoric as a method to distract and unite the common people is nothing new in this regard, it's just that North Korea takes it to new extremes.

There will come a time when we can no longer confidently claim that North Korea is a communist country. I think the current decade should be seen as the turning point since the state appears to be quietly complicit in the increasing marketization of North Korean society, if the most recent reports are to be believed. The removal of Marx and Lenin statues serves as the writing on the wall. But to say that the country has never been communist strikes me as some bizarre form of revisionism. Surely the actual, real economic conditions and mode of production should take precedence over the rhetoric or ideological orthodoxy of the regime when making such a call.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 22:51

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

Phlegmish posted:

It strikes me as a rather inane statement that being communist or not has nothing to do with economic organization since that is the entire basis of communism, and indeed, the mode of production within a given society is considered primordial by Marxists themselves. North Korea had, and to some extent still has, a centrally planned economy with state ('collective') ownership of the means of production. Plans and production targets for every economic sector are created and set by government committees. It is, or was, a communist country by any reasonable historical definition.

The fact that the regime has always preferred to indoctrinate its subjects with Juche rather than with orthodox Marxism-Leninism (whether or not they give a drat for the latter), and that they are currently allowing relatively far-reaching marketization, doesn't change anything about the way the North Korean economy was organized up until at least the famine. It's merely an interesting qualifier, and not even a very exceptional one, since in many East Bloc countries the self-perpetuation of the elite eventually took precedence over ideology. Even the use of nationalist and xenophobic rhetoric as a method to distract and unite the common people is nothing new in this regard, it's just that North Korea takes it to new extremes.

There will come a time when we can no longer confidently claim that North Korea is a communist country. I think the current decade should be seen as the turning point since the state appears to be quietly complicit in the increasing marketization of North Korean society, if the most recent reports are to be believed. The removal of Marx and Lenin statues serves as the writing on the wall. But to say that the country has never been communist strikes me as some bizarre form of revisionism. Surely the actual, real economic conditions and mode of production should take precedence over the rhetoric or ideological orthodoxy of the regime when making such a call.

aside from your aside on "self-perpetuation of the elite" i largely agree with this. the dprk removed marxism-leninism from its constitution but that in itself doesn't mean much. the ussr, for instance, never included marxism-leninism in any drafts of its constitution.

# ? Sep 8, 2016 02:27

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Phlegmish posted:

It strikes me as a rather inane statement that being communist or not has nothing to do with economic organization since that is the entire basis of communism, and indeed, the mode of production within a given society is considered primordial by Marxists themselves.

That's an exaggeration of what I actually said.

The first of your posts that I quoted implied that the DPRK is putting communism and its ideology second to capitalistic endeavours for the sake of keeping the regime going. So I pointed out that the regime hasn't been meaningfully Marxist-Leninist for decades and that market activity doesn't create a propaganda issue for the regime. (South Korean and Chinese media entering the country is a problem, but not market activity per se. At least, I've seen no evidence that the workers at Kaesong or those they send to Poland as virtual slave laborers are more likely to become dissidents.)

The DPRK's changing relation to communist ideology, its Communist allies, and its economic policies is a fascinating and nuanced issue. But if you think communism hinges entirely on whether or not a nation has a planned economy, I'm not sure why you are concerned with official ideology and propaganda at all.

Homework Explainer posted:

aside from your aside on "self-perpetuation of the elite" i largely agree with this. the dprk removed marxism-leninism from its constitution but that in itself doesn't mean much. the ussr, for instance, never included marxism-leninism in any drafts of its constitution.

When your government's raison d'etre is establishing socialism, you have certain economic metrics on which you have to deliver. When its legitimacy is based on nationalism and xenophobia, different story. This lead, for example, to Kim beginning to break away from the Soviet propaganda line after Stalin died and Krushchev began advocating more peaceful economic competition with the West.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Sep 8, 2016

# ? Sep 8, 2016 02:29

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

Halloween Jack posted:

Juche was always a bland...

Sorry, I meant they literally went round and took all the marx and lenin statues, pictures, and books and got rid of them a few years ago.

I agree that they were pretty much never communist or anything like that.

Uncle Jam posted:

Yeah but the main point isn't about north korea having nukes today, but that nothing is really blocking them from moving along a path towards nukes, and it is really hard to see how anyone would block them.

if you're worried about a weird isolated dictator just throwing a nuke for giggles, well, putin has thousands of them

# ? Sep 8, 2016 02:48

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Phlegmish posted:

It strikes me as a rather inane statement that being communist or not has nothing to do with economic organization since that is the entire basis of communism, and indeed, the mode of production within a given society is considered primordial by Marxists themselves. North Korea had, and to some extent still has, a centrally planned economy with state ('collective') ownership of the means of production. Plans and production targets for every economic sector are created and set by government committees. It is, or was, a communist country by any reasonable historical definition.

The fact that the regime has always preferred to indoctrinate its subjects with Juche rather than with orthodox Marxism-Leninism (whether or not they give a drat for the latter), and that they are currently allowing relatively far-reaching marketization, doesn't change anything about the way the North Korean economy was organized up until at least the famine. It's merely an interesting qualifier, and not even a very exceptional one, since in many East Bloc countries the self-perpetuation of the elite eventually took precedence over ideology. Even the use of nationalist and xenophobic rhetoric as a method to distract and unite the common people is nothing new in this regard, it's just that North Korea takes it to new extremes.

There will come a time when we can no longer confidently claim that North Korea is a communist country. I think the current decade should be seen as the turning point since the state appears to be quietly complicit in the increasing marketization of North Korean society, if the most recent reports are to be believed. The removal of Marx and Lenin statues serves as the writing on the wall. But to say that the country has never been communist strikes me as some bizarre form of revisionism. Surely the actual, real economic conditions and mode of production should take precedence over the rhetoric or ideological orthodoxy of the regime when making such a call.

That's not what is commonly understood under the term "communism" though. It's not synonymous with collectivism but refers to a specific, historic movement and ideology that emerged in the 19th century. You wouldn't call the Inca empire communist, despite them having had a collectivists economy, right?

# ? Sep 8, 2016 11:11

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

Uncle Jam posted:

This whole thread I've never said he's going to use them. His ability to get nukes has no relation to his chance to use them.

It'll put him in a better bargaining position hands down, that's the end goal.

people are weirdly latched on to the idea of the dprk using nukes even though it'd be the single dumbest act in the history of geopolitics

easier to square if you picture an entire nation of people as helpless grown infants i suppose

# ? Sep 8, 2016 23:38

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

Speaking of nukes NK might have just set off another one.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37314927

# ? Sep 9, 2016 02:46

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:30

Bastaman Vibration: Jun 26, 2005

sincx posted:

Come on, PLA. Don't be scared, just go take care of the DPRK menace please, tia.

For real. While I'm the last one to cheer on any invasion, a PLA occupation of North Korea would almost be welcome (not that they want a US-occupied country on their border, obviously). I'm sick and tired of this guy already. How could China not be absolutely going apeshit at KJU? I just wish they'd come out and publically renounce the guy. Supposedly there's the whole Korean War-solidarity and all, and I understand that, but all those veterans are dead or dying now.

Edit: and wasn't that last one a few days ago while China was trying to host a summit? It's almost like they're trying to piss their last remaining "ally".

Bastaman Vibration fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Sep 9, 2016

# ? Sep 9, 2016 05:33

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

I'm not familiar with this Twitter account, but this sequence is fairly chilling

https://twitter.com/DWSAviation/status/774079196477829120

https://twitter.com/DWSIntel/status/774082348170088448

https://twitter.com/DWSIntel/status/774085666611212289

https://twitter.com/DWSIntel/status/774086646417371136

https://twitter.com/DWSIntel/status/774086903217827840

https://twitter.com/DWSIntel/status/774087308198813697

https://twitter.com/DWSIntel/status/774099712718671872

Osan Air Traffic Control is here

# ? Sep 9, 2016 05:38

JeffersonClay: Jun 17, 2003; by R. Guyovich

Homework Explainer posted:

people are weirdly latched on to the idea of the dprk using nukes even though it'd be the single dumbest act in the history of geopolitics

easier to square if you picture an entire nation of people as helpless grown infants i suppose

Do you think North Korea has anything approaching democracy? Helpless grown infant is a fair description of the guy with the nuke launching authority in NK.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 05:54

Bastaman Vibration: Jun 26, 2005

The Guardian posted:

The latest test, once confirmed, shows that the sanctions-driven policy of the US and its regional allies has reached the limit of its effectiveness, according to an expert quoted by Reuters.

Tadashi Kimiya, a University of Tokyo professor specialising in Korean issues said: �Sanctions have already been imposed on almost everything possible, so the policy is at an impasse. In reality, the means by which the United States, South Korea and Japan can put pressure on North Korea have reached their limits,� he said.

So yeah, where do we go from here? If everyone now accepts that NK is beyond a doubt a nuclear state (not that they weren't already), what happens now? Obviously the sanctions won't be removed. I guess this means the six party talks are dead in the water even more than they even were years back. What could even be a new policy?

# ? Sep 9, 2016 06:15

WarpedNaba: Feb 8, 2012; Being social makes me swell!

Harder sanctions, more limits on their trading capacity, eeeeeh.

Ball's really in China's court, but they're still sulking after getting told by the UN that the South China Sea isn't actually Chinese-owned.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 06:43

Biggus Dickus: May 18, 2005; Roadies know where to focus the spotlight.

North Korea nuclear test: Pyongyang confirms 'warhead explosion' � live

This is the Guardian's livestream covering the event and its fallout (hah!). No doubt it'll be on the DPRK news channel too.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 07:18

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

JeffersonClay posted:

Do you think North Korea has anything approaching democracy? Helpless grown infant is a fair description of the guy with the nuke launching authority in NK.

It is anti ~~imperialist~~ AmeriKKKa, therefore glorious DPRK is a very freedom and self determination country.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 07:43

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

WarpedNaba posted:

Harder sanctions, more limits on their trading capacity, eeeeeh.

Ball's really in China's court, but they're still sulking after getting told by the UN that the South China Sea isn't actually Chinese-owned.

That UNCLOS ruling was hardly a rebuke by the UN in any meaningful capacity.

As for what to do about North Korea? It's hard to say now. Dialogue and diplomacy are probably the way forward at this point. North Korea has exactly 0 incentive to denuclearize, so it probably isn't useful to insist upon it as a condition for the withdrawal of sanctions.

"Getting tough" sounds nice, but the strategy hasn't worked for two decades and it won't magically start working now.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 08:31

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

KaptainKrunk posted:

"Getting tough" sounds nice, but the strategy hasn't worked for two decades and it won't magically start working now.

We haven't bombed them in two decades yet, so there's always an option to "get tougher"! Also we need a new Team America sequel.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 08:47

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

JeffersonClay posted:

Do you think North Korea has anything approaching democracy? Helpless grown infant is a fair description of the guy with the nuke launching authority in NK.

You do realize that even though Kim Jong-un is in charge, it's not like the rest of the elite will just meekly accept it if he feels grumpy one day and decides to commit national suicide? There are plenty of Kims to replace him with, after all.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 10:02

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Cerebral Bore posted:

You do realize that even though Kim Jong-un is in charge, it's not like the rest of the elite will just meekly accept it if he feels grumpy one day and decides to commit national suicide? There are plenty of Kims to replace him with, after all.

Problem is, he seems to be replacing the elites before the elites can replace him.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 10:52

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Biggus Dickus posted:

North Korea nuclear test: Pyongyang confirms 'warhead explosion' � live

This is the Guardian's livestream covering the event and its fallout (hah!). No doubt it'll be on the DPRK news channel too.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/09/north-koreas-growing-ambition-nuclear-arsenal-force-us-negotiating-table

According to the Guardian, it seems like it was successful and they may have at this point a compact fission device small enough to fit on a theater-range missile. The yield is still fairly small according to other powers (10-20 kt range) but that is enough to be a threat. There is no way it is was an actual fusion device but it does look like they have been making progress.

It may actually be too late to take out Kim with force at this point.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:09

Hexyflexy: Sep 2, 2011; asymptotically approaching one

Ardennes posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/09/north-koreas-growing-ambition-nuclear-arsenal-force-us-negotiating-table

According to the Guardian, it seems like it was successful and they may have at this point a compact fission device small enough to fit on a theater-range missile. The yield is still fairly small according to other powers (10-20 kt range) but that is enough to be a threat. There is no way it is was an actual fusion device but it does look like they have been making progress.

It may actually be too late to take out Kim with force at this point.

It only just occurred to me as to what the minimum physical size of a fission bomb is, and the answer is obvious because there are pictures. These are W87 (~300kt of bang fusion bombs) reentry vehicles:

The fission "starter" is reported to be a couple of kilotons, and looking at that it can't be much bigger than a softball? That is one hell of a lot of boom in a small space. Which I suppose they'd be going for because they don't have a hell of a lot of cash to build large missiles or silos.

Honestly wonder though whether they went for one of their physically tiny warhead designs they've been reported to be working on for years, or went for a massively over-engineered big one just to make sure the bomb went off. Who the hell knows with that place.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:20

suburban virgin: Jul 26, 2007; Highly qualified lurker.

Hasn't it been too late for years, though? No-one wants to remove the Nork government, Kim or no Kim, nukes or no nukes, because no-one wants to deal with millions of starving uneducated peasant refugees at the border. Certainly no-one wants the problem of how to de-Juche the country, the place is a mess.

I would guess our response will advance from "Hope they don't get nukes" to "Hope they don't use them". We're not going to attack, we're not going to submit to whatever mad demands Kim has today (draw his face on the moon, maybe?), and the North Korean people aren't about to rise up and overthrow their leaders so... situation normal?

# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:20

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Ardennes posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/09/north-koreas-growing-ambition-nuclear-arsenal-force-us-negotiating-table

According to the Guardian, it seems like it was successful and they may have at this point a compact fission device small enough to fit on a theater-range missile. The yield is still fairly small according to other powers (10-20 kt range) but that is enough to be a threat. There is no way it is was an actual fusion device but it does look like they have been making progress.

It may actually be too late to take out Kim with force at this point.

thats disconcerting. so we just wait for him to get desperate and fire one off at japan or South Korea? its clear sanctions arnt having a great effect for various reasons, but other then invasion or a coup, i dont see many options left.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:26

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

They specifically said it was designed to fit on the Hwasong rocket, which is their domestic Scud (and the one they've been exporting). It's a TBM, and a 10kt warhead fits the bill as a payload.

This is worrying because if they can mass produce, they have enough of those missiles and the warning time on launch would be so short that any ABM system around Seoul could be overwhelmed.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:37

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 03:54

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

VikingSkull posted:

Problem is, he seems to be replacing the elites before the elites can replace him.

He's been staffing the upper echelons with loyalists, but I kinda doubt that he can find enough dudes that are so fanatically loyal that they're literally willing to burn the country to the ground on a lark, though.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Korea Thread: Fumbling to take a bite of kimchi

«‹›260 »

Homework Explainer posted:

Halloween Jack posted:

Halloween Jack posted:

Homework Explainer posted:

Uncle Jam posted:

Phlegmish posted:

Main Paineframe posted:

Uncle Jam posted:

Halloween Jack posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Halloween Jack posted:

Phlegmish posted:

Phlegmish posted:

Homework Explainer posted:

Halloween Jack posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Uncle Jam posted:

Phlegmish posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Uncle Jam posted:

sincx posted:

Homework Explainer posted:

The Guardian posted:

JeffersonClay posted:

WarpedNaba posted:

KaptainKrunk posted:

JeffersonClay posted:

Cerebral Bore posted:

Biggus Dickus posted:

Ardennes posted:

Ardennes posted:

VikingSkull posted: