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Kwyndig posted:Honestly if you're going to play Star Wars you need to do either original Trilogy (where Force powers are rare) or just go full KOTOR and have everybody play a Jedi. In the game I'm currently running, the team of mostly non-Force powered people regularly take down Force users because hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:26
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Serf posted:In the game I'm currently running, the team of mostly non-Force powered people regularly take down Force users because hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. I just hate that your options with non-force users kind of boil down to 'attack the thing' or 'not attack the thing'. There aren't a bunch of cool attack/defense powers like in WHFR3e.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:37
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Games Workshop: Here, have this license. Fantasy Flight Games: Cool. *makes a bunch of cool and good games* Games Workshop: Yeah stop now.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:41
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S.J. posted:I just hate that your options with non-force users kind of boil down to 'attack the thing' or 'not attack the thing'. There aren't a bunch of cool attack/defense powers like in WHFR3e. Yeah, the FFG system is kinda garbage. I use the book for setting information and stuff, but you couldn't pay me to run a game with the engine.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:41
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Conceptually I like what I've seen of WHF3e, but it's overeliance on physical things makes it impossible to dabble in. I picked up the Players Handbook and was completely lost until I figured out that you still needed an entire other box of stuff.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:46
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Er, jedi and non-jedi are actually super well balanced in FFG's Star Wars. Jedi pay increasingly extra for each power they get, and their actual career paths are just mostly ok-ish compared to some of the amazing non-jedi ones. The actual strongest thing in FFG's Star Wars is a bounty hunter in customized as gently caress armor and a big ol' heavy repeating blaster set to autofire. Honestly with the way the dice system works you really don't lack for decisions to make in combat - sure, your initial action is "I attack," but what you do with your actual advantages is up to you. And Jedi to be equally frank don't really have a big awesome laundry list of powers, especially not early on - mid-game you'll generally have maybe one other combat action, which honestly tends to boil down to "I attack with the Force" instead of "I attack with a gun." There's several non-jedi careers that also get new in-combat options, too (example: the Doctor plunging a syringe full of mysterious chemicals right into a buddy's back to suddenly boost the gently caress out of an attribute, the gunslinger turning his pistols into autofire machines, etc). I mean look at the Gambler. They get talents that let them raise the difficulty on their own checks, and in exchange they get to increasingly boost just how hard they succeed at them if they pass the difficulty. Then they get several talents that essentially let them "cheat" on the roll. It's kinda genius and fits the idea of a class who takes needless risks, then makes their own luck to succeed at them, and jedi get nothing similar to that. There legit isn't a big jedi / non-jedi gap, and you can absolutely have any kind of mixed team that you see fit.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:45
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I've never played with the Jedi part of FFG's Star Wars, but my understanding is that it gets around the Jedi Problem by just having no truck with any of the Expanded Universe stuff where Jedi defeat whole armies singlehandedly.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:54
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ProfessorCirno posted:There legit isn't a big jedi / non-jedi gap, and you can absolutely have any kind of mixed team that you see fit. There are a few nonstandard actions scattered around the jobs, but they're pretty rare. It was something I also missed from WFRP3, though I do think that game seems to take it a bit too far in the other direction for all but the heaviest crunch-loving group. Even just two or three special actions per talent tree would have been really cool IMO. If they were spaced decently you could pick them or not depending on how much you want to interact with the mechanics.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:02
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ImpactVector posted:There is however a pretty big mechanical crunch/decision gap between Jedi and non-Jedi. Yeah, this was my point. I get not wanting to go crazy with specific abilities you have to manage, but if you aren't playing a Jedi, a lot of the classes feel like 3e fighters - I attack the [thing] with [the thing I built my character to attack with], with some conditional stuff you might have to worry about.
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Sep 7, 2016 04:28
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S.J. posted:Yeah, this was my point. I get not wanting to go crazy with specific abilities you have to manage, but if you aren't playing a Jedi, a lot of the classes feel like 3e fighters - I attack the [thing] with [the thing I built my character to attack with], with some conditional stuff you might have to worry about. What are you hoping for instead? Star Wars is essentially a modern setting in that most disputes are settled through firearms, so "I shoot that guy in the face" is going to sum up most people's actions in combat. There've been some combats where my techie character's been doing techie stuff while the party covers him, for example, but if he wanted somebody dead in short order, he has a blaster rifle modded into a blaster shotgun and would probably opt to use that.
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Sep 7, 2016 10:27
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Well D&D is essentially a medieval setting in that most disputes are settled through hitting a guy with a stick or sword, but "I hit the guy in the face with my sword" gets a lot of flak when it's the only available combat option for non-wizards
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Sep 7, 2016 12:00
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I'm mostly just turning down the idea that jedi have all these fantastic maneuvers and abilities and options. They are for the most part doing the same "I attack" on their round. They just might say "I attack by throwing a thing" instead of "I attack with a laser sword."
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Sep 7, 2016 12:51
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'm mostly just turning down the idea that jedi have all these fantastic maneuvers and abilities and options. They are for the most part doing the same "I attack" on their round. They just might say "I attack by throwing a thing" instead of "I attack with a laser sword." You do have a few extra options like pushing people or buffing your stats and such, but yeah it probably does still boil down to basic attacks most of the time. Regarding the "how can you make shooting things interesting", WFRP3's cards mostly boil down to giving you specific ways to spend your dice symbols. For example, there's a Called Shot card that lets you spend one success for normal damage, or 2 successes for normal damage and giving them the Rattled condition for a round. FFG Star Wars has a generic list of things you can spend symbols on (as does WFRP3), but tying them to specific player abilities that they can choose to use was a lot of fun in the right group, and adds another layer of player choice.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:05
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The problem isn't Jedi, it's lightsabers, which have armor pierce 10 and deal absurd damage (at least in EotE, to the point that that SIGNIFICANTLY powered them down to the level of blasters in F&D)
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Sep 7, 2016 18:35
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ENWorld writes a puff piece praising Gareth-Michael Skarka.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:20
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That came up before, but I still love how nobody in the comments is buying it. And GMS's passive-aggressive "I don't wanna deal with critics" post.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:22
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Honestly every comment in there should be 'X months for ONE CHAPTER' where X is however long people have been waiting since the last missed deadline.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:23
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I think it's been a year of working on Chapter 9.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:25
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I just can't believe he has any defenders left. Any time someone mentions how late Far West is, a dozen people jump up to say "Oh but he's working on it! For real!"
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Sep 7, 2016 19:27
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Evil Mastermind posted:I think it's been a year of working on Chapter 9. Far West is never coming out, he's spent all the money and is now going through delaying actions because he can't afford to actually print.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:27
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jivjov posted:I just can't believe he has any defenders left. Any time someone mentions how late Far West is, a dozen people jump up to say "Oh but he's working on it! For real!" It's just so premature to launch this '2.0' idea. Get your outstanding projects released, and then people might care enough to give you a second chance if they're solid. Timewatch was delayed, like, 2+ years, but all I care about now is how great it is and how much I want to run it. I can see where those years went towards making a better product, and the Book of Changing Years is supplement is just fantastic. If GMS is serious about stopping KS/pre-orders of his stuff, what possible benefit does announcing this rebranding now give him? It's devoid of content; it's an announcement about pending announcements that nobody will care about because nobody trusts him anymore. (e: Also, Morrus gets super-condescending all over that thread and a few others.) dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 19:43
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Adamant did release something the other day, but it was just a supplement for Thrilling Tales. Actually, looking at their DriveThru page, it looks like they've been putting out TT stuff recently. Four TT products since June, but I doubt they're exactly big sellers. Before that it's been pretty much nothing apart from bundles since 2014.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:00
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:The problem isn't Jedi, it's lightsabers, which have armor pierce 10 and deal absurd damage (at least in EotE, to the point that that SIGNIFICANTLY powered them down to the level of blasters in F&D) It didn't really power them down. F&D added lightsaber crystals as a thing for pimping out your ride, and there are crystals that bring them right back to the way they were in earlier editions, with other mods around besides. So it was a nerf for a newbie right out the gate with babby's first lightsaber, but overall it was a slight net buff, as it lets a player wiggle things around to better fit their desires whereas previously they couldn't. And from a grognard perspective, that change helps reconcile the fact that some lightsabers have been seen cutting aircraft carriers in half, and others seem to just singe on a hit. Clearly the ones slicing everything up have better mods installed.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:41
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Valatar posted:It didn't really power them down. F&D added lightsaber crystals as a thing for pimping out your ride, and there are crystals that bring them right back to the way they were in earlier editions, with other mods around besides. So it was a nerf for a newbie right out the gate with babby's first lightsaber, but overall it was a slight net buff, as it lets a player wiggle things around to better fit their desires whereas previously they couldn't. And we all know nothing says "Star Wars" like "what mods do you have installed in your lightsaber?"
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Sep 7, 2016 20:43
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Serf posted:And we all know nothing says "Star Wars" like "what mods do you have installed in your lightsaber?" When making Star Wars into a gaming system...yeah EDIT: Look at blasters...as far as what we explicitly see on film, blasters do two things; Stun and Kill. And yet there are dozens of on-screen blaster weapons. It stands to reason that there's some sort of in-universe reason for there to be different types of guns, so they all have different game stats.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:46
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The fact that Jedi all carry this one weapon, and all just wear robes or regular clothes, has bedeviled many a game designer trying to cram them into a D&D style CRPG.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:46
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jivjov posted:When making Star Wars into a gaming system...yeah Nah. Search your feelings, jivjov, you know it to be true.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:47
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jivjov posted:When making Star Wars into a gaming system...yeah They kinda don't, though. At least, not in EotE. The guns list just has "blaster/light blaster/blaster rifle/etc.", then in the description they give some sample Star Wars-y gun names if you care about that kind of thing.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:53
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Evil Mastermind posted:They kinda don't, though. At least, not in EotE. The guns list just has "blaster/light blaster/blaster rifle/etc.", then in the description they give some sample Star Wars-y gun names if you care about that kind of thing. Each splatbook introduces new guns with different stats
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Sep 7, 2016 21:05
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jivjov posted:Each splatbook introduces new guns with different stats Remember the time when Han shoots that stormtrooper with the blaster that did 3 damage instead of 2 because it had that barrel mod? Me neither.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:11
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Serf posted:Remember the time when Han shoots that stormtrooper with the blaster that did 3 damage instead of 2 because it had that barrel mod? Again; when converting the pulp action of a film to the codified rules systems of a game, weapons having distinct stats is a logical outcome
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Sep 7, 2016 21:16
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jivjov posted:Again; when converting the pulp action of a film to the codified rules systems of a game, weapons having distinct stats is a logical outcome Again: nope. What are the distinct statistical differences between Han's shoes and Luke's?
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Sep 7, 2016 21:17
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Serf posted:Remember the time when Han shoots that stormtrooper with the blaster that did 3 damage instead of 2 because it had that barrel mod? "Highly customized weapons and equipment" seems to fit the theme of everyone in Star Wars who isn't using military issued stuff. I mean, Luke Skywalker uses the Rebellion's BYOD(roid) policy to hook up R2-D2 into his X-Wing.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:19
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jivjov posted:Again; when converting the pulp action of a film to the codified rules systems of a game, weapons having distinct stats is a logical outcome Sure, the distinction between a blaster pistol and a blaster rifle might be marginally useful. But beyond that, I don't need to know the weight of a Czerka heavy blaster or the crit chance of a Sienar Systems turbolaser. Those needless things actively detract from anything resembling "pulp". E: canyoneer posted:"Highly customized weapons and equipment" seems to fit the theme of everyone in Star Wars who isn't using military issued stuff. Artoo being able to talk to the X-Wing isn't a game mechanic or a plot device. It is barely more than set dressing. It is not lingered on or expounded upon in the film and is utterly immaterial to Star Wars. No one ever comments on Han's blaster. The closest we ever get to this is TFA showing the power of Chewie's bowcaster. Serf fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 21:20
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I think jivjov might be being sarcastic.  jivjov posted:Each splatbook introduces new guns with different stats Well that's dumb. Although it does remind me of someone saying once that Fate wouldn't work for Star Trek because Fate doesn't have the equipment granularity needed. Because, as we all know, what made Trek what is was was the equipment everyone carried. Seriously, though, I think the problem is that for a lot of people, gear in RPGs is really important. Getting loot goes back to the roots of the hobby and hits the right part of your brain to make it something people will always look for. Of course, when you stay in that mindset you get poo poo like the d20 Modern Weapons Locker book. (One of the many reasons I really like Fragged Empire is that it does away with the long-rear end list of slightly different weapons, and just lets you custom-design everything.)
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Sep 7, 2016 21:26
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Evil Mastermind posted:I think jivjov might be being sarcastic. Oh poo poo I have that book around here somewhere. It's pages upon pages of weapons that do identical damage (based on class of gun) and have marginally different features. I might even have the PDF version. Edit: I have A PDF version... but I'm terrible at adobe  The pictures of the guns is a nice touch, but all the weapons on that page do 2d8 damage, weigh between 7 and 10 pounds, and are otherwise only differentiated by range increment, magazine size, and cost. There are 27 pages of just assault rifles laid out like this (although the M16 and its variants takes up 3 of those). double edit: Look upon the M16 table and DESPAIR 
Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 21:28
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Serf posted:Sure, the distinction between a blaster pistol and a blaster rifle might be marginally useful. But beyond that, I don't need to know the weight of a Czerka heavy blaster or the crit chance of a Sienar Systems turbolaser. Those needless things actively detract from anything resembling "pulp". I'm quite fond of the Night's Black Agents take on this: guns are all lumped into three (?) categories, but if you have the right skills and perks you can make a Tom Clancy style monologue about the fancy nature of your weapon of choice to refresh some of your expended Shooting points. I think it's a pretty good way of handling gear porn in an otherwise-light system.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:31
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potatocubed posted:I'm quite fond of the Night's Black Agents take on this: guns are all lumped into three (?) categories, but if you have the right skills and perks you can make a Tom Clancy style monologue about the fancy nature of your weapon of choice to refresh some of your expended Shooting points. I think it's a pretty good way of handling gear porn in an otherwise-light system. Now see this I like. Throw in a little technobabble (which Star Wars does have a little bit of, admittedly) and get a bonus. Bing bong boom so simple.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:46
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Star Wars was all about the custom gear, at least when it came to special people. The Millennium Falcon, Boba Fett's armor, Vader's TIE Advanced, the Executor, Vader's whole getup, just from the movies. Luke making his own lightsaber was treated like a big deal by Vader. If you go into the EU stuff, pretty much everything every main character uses is some magical custom thing, but the EU is terrible so I'm just sticking with what's been seen onscreen for this. Interesting people have interesting stuff. Would Han have been an amazing iconic smuggler using some generic Wal-Mart YT-1300 right off the shelf? Maybe, but judging from how little people seemed to expect from the ship when they saw it, I'm betting not. And on the other side of things, anyone using generic mass-produced goods is just a cannon fodder thug. You know you aren't going to be seeing an actual challenge until a second blade pops out of their lightsaber, or their thing is colored differently from the norm, or their ship is super big.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:47
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Having cool stuff is not the same as having to explicitly spell out all the ways in which your stuff is cool. The Millennium Falcon can make the Kessel Run in less that 12 parsecs but that is just a cool thing that is said which translates to "my ship is really fast". The fact that a parsec is a unit of distance and not of time is just icing on the cake. Do not @ me with your EU nonsense about black holes and charting courses.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:52
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