|
There's more specific stuff in Fury than just the stuff about loving Hitler for a bar of chocolate, think of the scene where War Daddy teaches Machine how to gently caress, the gazes of the onlookers, etc. It's really, really explicit and uncomfortable. Also, I think one of the most interesting things is that Joker cops her style. He's the famous one, the one with the rep, but is envious of her sexual availibility and confidence. He's annoyed with the day to day of being a trap lord and fantasizes about being Harley.
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 07:39 |
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Also, I think one of the most interesting things is that Joker cops her style. He's the famous one, the one with the rep, but is envious of her sexual availibility and confidence. He's annoyed with the day to day of being a trap lord and fantasizes about being Harley. Who among us doesn't? Really thought his scenes were great, as brief as they were. His fashion was the kind of sleaze I really dig. It's forced and gross and great.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 19:56
|
|
|
A True Jar Jar Fan posted:Who among us doesn't? This is why i want more joker scenes. I was excited to see what sort of awful Leto could bring to the joker, which is kinda his whole point, and its a shame they didn't push it in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
Saw this again last night because a friend of mine hadn't seen it and it was $5 movie day so I treated her to it. It actually made a lot more sense and was generally even better the second time. I can only imagine how good Ayer's original cut must have been, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
precision posted:Saw this again last night because a friend of mine hadn't seen it and it was $5 movie day so I treated her to it. According to Ayer this was his original cut.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
That boggles me, this could be a really genuinely good movie if they gave it the BvS Ultimate treatment, nope, that was the ultimate cut.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
The structure of the film, albeit strange, is very consistent. You get Waller getting the green light, Enchantress loving stuff up, and then the Squad gets activated. What would improve the film is the addition of a second act, but that doesn't appear to have ever been filmed. It's just a subversion of the typical plot structure.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
A woman pelvic thrusts a beam of light out of her into the sky and you don't think the film is a little bit queer? Like Joker is straight up super queer and that doesn't even get into the outlandish costumes he makes his henchmen wear, Batman regretfully having to give mouth to mouth to Harley Quinn etc.. etc.. All the guys looking lustfully at Deadshot as he outperforms them, etc.. I'd have to actually go and rewatch the whole thing, but it's definitely got some really queer themes going on. Oh Diablo accepting this group of people as his family suddenly? Of course eye of beholder etc.. etc..
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
I need to re-watch it, obviously. I remember all those things and liking them, I feel like this'll be a better "home theater" movie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:A woman pelvic thrusts a beam of light out of her into the sky and you don't think the film is a little bit queer? Like Joker is straight up super queer and that doesn't even get into the outlandish costumes he makes his henchmen wear, Batman regretfully having to give mouth to mouth to Harley Quinn etc.. etc.. All the guys looking lustfully at Deadshot as he outperforms them, etc.. Joker being gay is not a thing that ever occurred to me .Nor Batman's slowness to induce CPR, or that anyone was looking lustily at Deadshot - it seem more in awe or envy. It feels like trying to interpret this as queer or gay or whatever is like pounding a square dick into a round butt.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 02:46
|
|
|
He isn't saying that Joker is gay.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 02:51
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:He isn't saying that Joker is gay. Contextually it seemed like it. Is he saying Joker/Batman et al are queerly themed? Which is kinda pretty similar, no? I don't think I'm understanding.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 02:53
|
|
|
Drifter posted:Contextually it seemed like it. Is he saying Joker/Batman et al are queerly themed? Which is kinda pretty similar, no? The Batman stuff you don't even need to get into, that's such well trod territory it's passe. Fetishman, with a teen boy sidekick, cultlike homofascist worshipping of the body and gratuitious action, etc etc. Whatever. Leto has said in interviews that Bowie was specifically a reference for the Joker (as opposed to Ledger's influence, Tom Waits). This makes sense because Leto is also a pop star patterned after Bowie, but also, this is completely taken from the comics. The three biggest things about the Joker that have apparently endured from the comics are: no fixed backstory (established in Killing Joke), Harley Quinn, and a constantly shifting persona. The last is the most interesting, because when Grant Morrison returned after a decade and a half to do some more Batman stuff, he specifically cited Bowie and his various "periods" to give the Joker justification to be everything from Crime Clown to Force of Chaos. Who better? Androgynous, lurid, mysterious, etc. He changes as often as Batman does, implication being, since Batman is purely reactionary, that Batman changes in response to the Joker. He's the "better class of criminal" Batman has always sought, a desire fulfilled. The Joker is a trendsetter, a flamboyant art criminal, and Batman is a groupie. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Sep 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 03:11
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:I think the problem is that Ayer doesn't really have a queer enough vision for camp. The closest he really comes is the duality between Joker and Harley as this "gender bending, but not really" cheesecake couple, which, while great, isn't really carrying the bigger picture. "'Ey, what the hell you locked up for, Lil B?' poo poo, y'know, tiny pants... Y'know, pink bandana... Normal poo poo. Y'know we squadded up in jail though, bruh. It ain't nothin'. Y'know we real connected, well respected. You feel me? Bitch Mob killers, hitters." -Lil B, "Connected in Jail" "'Ey bruh. Ey, you ever think we're about to get out of, uh... you know... where we at right now, this hell - this jail? 'Bitch, hellnaw we ain't gon' go nowhere. We trapped in BasedWorld.' BITCH MOB THUGGIN', SKI MASK THUGGIN' [x8]" -Lil B, "Ski Mask Thuggin" "ASAP, I be down with the MAC Like a lesbian, nigga, I be down with the strap Fully extension'd, like the girls with the braids Nigga, Westside - couldn't hold me in the cage." -Lil B, "Green Card" Suicide Squad is totally doing a similar play on MAC and, y'know, M·A·C. I wasn't joking about this being an adaptation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 05:02
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:"'Ey, what the hell you locked up for, Lil B?' I've listened to way too little Lil B. I just looked him up a little now and found this, and it's basically perfection and also, you're right, fits the anti-cinematic tone of the movie perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5PVFjsQG8 You know what's a another good pairing with Suicide Squad? Ang Lee's Hulk.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 05:22
|
|
|
Drifter posted:Joker being gay is not a thing that ever occurred to me .Nor Batman's slowness to induce CPR, or that anyone was looking lustily at Deadshot - it seem more in awe or envy. Your interpretation of what we are talking about is obviously coming from the perception that Queer = Gay. When we are talking about things being queer we are saying it's not hetero-normative. Meaning that it does not fit the viewpoint of promoting heterosexuality and all that is related to that over other lifestyles/ sexual orientations. When I say " Joker is queer in Suicide Squad" I am not saying "Joker sucks dick". I am saying Joker has to be queer and not heteronormative because he is a reflection of Batman and Batman's super power is " heteronormativity" in this specific media. It's actually what I really really liked about Leto's Joker. edit: Harley Quinn can be seen as the feminine part of Jokers psyche or a extension of his psyche and Joker uses her to entice men. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Sep 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 05:55
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Your interpretation of what we are talking about is obviously coming from the perception that Queer = Gay. When we are talking about things being queer we are saying it's not hetero-normative. Meaning that it does not fit the viewpoint of promoting heterosexuality and all that is related to that over other lifestyles/ sexual orientations. Joker probably sucks a whole lotta dick tho... 
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 15:57
|
|
|
Just Harley's good friend Ol' Strappy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
That baseball bat isn't just for hittin' things. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Ouch!
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
I don't see how you could watch the look Joker gets on his face when he's offering Harley to that thug guy and not think "Well he's a queer bird". I mean it's essentially a scene where he wants to gently caress a dude via the surrogate of his feminine half given flesh.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
The more I think about it the more I really like Leto's Joker.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:The more I think about it the more I really like Leto's Joker. This is the same for me. In all the promotional stuff and all that leading up to Suicide Squad coming out i was mostly just like, "Oh boy, how 'edgy' and weird are they going to make the joker this time" in an extremely sarcastic tone while figuring it would just be bad and forgettable. But the more i read into the actual perfoemance given, the more i actually want to see more of Leto as the joker.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 22:29
|
|
|
I really liked Leto in the scene with Common. It was so uncomfortable and feverish.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
precision posted:I don't see how you could watch the look Joker gets on his face when he's offering Harley to that thug guy and not think "Well he's a queer bird". I took that scene to be something entirely different. He's offering Harley to the gangster, but that "offering" is as genuine and honest as TDK's Joker saying, "hey guys let's all dress up as clowns and rob a bank." What he's really doing is making the gangster an offering to Harley. She's not going to be impressed with flowers any more than Lili Von Shtupp would have been. You want to know what really gets Harley's motor going? Murder. Kill a human being in front of her for no reason at all, that's a REAL romantic gesture right there. I think if Suicide Squad Joker wanted to gently caress a dude, he'd just gently caress a dude.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
GRANNYS PEACH TEA posted:I think if Suicide Squad Joker wanted to gently caress a dude, he'd just gently caress a dude. Yeah, he's queer in the way Hannibal Lecter is in the Bryan Fuller show. It's beyond sexuality. Intimacy for him in any romantic or sexual sense is inextricably transgressive; it's an active challenge to what's normative, and the intimacy comes from the act of pushing boundaries rather than something mundane like forming a stable non-normative relationship. On Hannibal, it's not that he wanted to gently caress Will Graham. He wanted to possess him, to make Will into him. Which is why the series finale, where Hannibal and Will co-murder the Red Dragon, serves as an ultimate consummation. If they'd flat-out hosed afterwards, it'd only have rendered the scene more "normal." In this movie, I got the sense that that's how the Joker sees Harley. But *she* ultimately wants that stable relationship, hence the hyperbolic depiction of this 50's suburban cliche.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 00:07
|
|
|
I thought that Harley's fantasy was really loving dumb and it makes the character less
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:I thought that Harley's fantasy was really loving dumb and it makes the character less It sets up the silliest gag in the movie, where she's reading a Harlequin paperback.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
I feel like Harley's fantasy was a really fitting parallel to Diablo's, now that I think about it. Both of these characters ostensibly fantasize about having "the perfect family," but ultimately they have to "own that poo poo" that when put in a ball and chain, they chew their arm off to get away. Thin line between love and hate, revolver, revolving door, etc., etc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
Honestly the only moment where Joker really read as queer was the kitchen scene where he sits in Barinholtz's lap, and even that is more of an extension of the predator/prey theme, this power tripping bully who dresses up in this ridiculous tiger shirt to make it clear that he's projecting an image of power and strength getting utterly emasculated by the real power player in the situation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 00:52
|
|
|
"Would you live for me" is really queer in the 'perverse' sense, like Harley's fantasy. Her fantasy is not living in an Eisenhower era suburb, her fantasy is being barefoot and in curlers when daddy brings home the bacon. It's a kink performance. The other part of her fantasy is a famous Alex Ross painting, who is best known for Norman Rockwell-ing up the superhero stuff, making it upright and conservative, but a huge part of his work is like, 70s kitsch and winking at his audience with realistic crotch bulges. The specific Harley and Joker painting is like a "classy" Bonnie and Clyde '96.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
In return, Joker literally becomes "the bacon." True love conquers all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:In return, Joker literally becomes "the bacon." True love conquers all. All the cops want to screw her so she just fantasizes her dead boyfriend as one of the cops.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
One thing that sticks with me for how bizarre it is is that Batman definitely makes out with Harley Quinn.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
And it makes him so mad. It's the Elmer Fudd falling for Bugs Bunny all over again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:And it makes him so mad. It's the Elmer Fudd falling for Bugs Bunny all over again. I'm sorry to keep going on about this, but one of the reasons I like Ayer so much is that he does such a great job teasing out so much from so little. That's just a tiny little moment, but it's relevant, because it's also part of Col. Flagg's story. He's an elite soldier who's talked about like a piece of poo poo by his boss, not because she expected better of him, but because she knows that men are slaves to their passions. And he definitely feels like a piece of poo poo for falling hard for Dr. June Moone (what a name, btw) because in his simple mind, he can't decide whether he's been manipulated, seduced, whatever. It doesn't matter, though, because he knows what he feels. It's being judged that's intolerable, even moreso than being used because at least that's worth it for the sake of devotion. Even when Bruce Wayne fucks women, it's like he's pretend loving them to uphold an image. So what's Batman doing when he just can't help himself? Is Batman loving up? (yes he is)
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 02:14
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Cara Delevinge's gyrating is so hokey and great. It's another one of those things where you're forced to make the comparison to, like, Lee Meriwether in Batman. It feels though like the movie itself is afraid of going all out with it. Most of her gyration is seen in the background of shots, or away from our main point of focus- like they're sort of ashamed of it or it tested badly so they cut out what shots of it they could. Similarly her halo of eyes only reads as such in a couple of shots. Ayer may well be okay with the theatrical cut, but then Ridley Scott was happy to go along with the reedit of Legend, since he wanted to make a movie with mass appeal. It still feels like this is a film that's been through the cuisinart.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 02:37
|
|
|
Batman punches a woman, arrests a black man like a weird good guy with a gun, and threatens a black woman. Like his rescue of Harley Quinn is so ridiculous because he causes her to be put in danger so that he can save her. Between BvS and this film they've basically made Batman a weird sovereign citizen manchild.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
Good
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 03:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 07:39 |
|
|
I still hold the Chapo reading where Batman is Peter Thiel and Superman is Erdogan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 03:24
|
|