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Considering the way they covered Twilight Syndrome, I've been wondering if they'll skim over Zero in a similar way. If they do it from Matsuda's perspective they could give a small amount of screentime to the development of the Neo World Program (which would also let us see the real Miaya).
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Sep 9, 2016 13:12
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They will burn through zero in half an episode like they did with Twilight Syndrome or if you're lucky one whole episode.
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Sep 9, 2016 13:41
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Zero in the anime will be Junko breaking the fourth wall telling you to buy the book and to get hosed if you can't read Japanese.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:13
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whitehelm posted:The DR1 cast would've arrived at the same time as Mukuro and Junko a few episodes ago, they've just been offscreen. I think they also mentioned in passing that Nagito had been gone for at least a year, and he got suspended about midway through his first year. So my estimate is that the student council killing and the corruption of Class 77 happens about midway through the second year. Baal posted:They will burn through zero in half an episode like they did with Twilight Syndrome or if you're lucky one whole episode. If the rumors about Despair arc being done in eleven episodes are true, I'm not even sure that DR0 will get half an episode. Probably just a comment about how Junko disappeared after the corruption of Class 77. Those rumors being true would mean we just have two episodes left, and we've still got plenty of ground to cover. We have: - Class 77's fall into despair and transformation into the Remnants of Despair - The reserve course killing themselves - What happens to Chiaki at the end - What happens to Mitarai at the end, and how he joins the future foundation - Dangan Ronpa Zero - Miaya and the Neo World Program - The tragedy going public, the closing of Hope's Peak, and the collapse of society as the surviving members of Class 78 are locked in the school. - The end result of Izuru's development, and whether or not he fully embraces despair. I don't think all that could be covered in two episodes, so I'm expecting some things to get the shaft.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:45
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Tbf if they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by trying to cover stuff they didn't actually need to cover and centralized Despair side more to Yukizome, the Future Foundation, and Class 77, they might not be in this situation, but hey. Also, if the Future Side wasn't about a bunch of assholes trying to murder each other outside of the game they're playing and spent more time focusing on who the potential mastermind could be, working together, and focusing on the fallout of DR2, but I'm just spitballing here.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:52
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Was looking through the thread again and I rediscovered this gemalcharagia posted:I can't believe that in Episode 3, Nagito, the true hero of the series, busts in with a gun and shoots the bad guys and saves the Ultimate Hope by himself and everyone loves him. I can't believe alcharagia is psychic. Maybe even SHSL Psychic???
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Sep 9, 2016 14:56
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I hope Despair has a full 12 episodes just so that, when Future most likely ends on a hopeful and optimistic note that the world can and will be revealed and all that stuff, the Hope's Peak storyline itself ends on the worst possible note.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:57
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My criticisms aside, Natsumi and Hajime actually had very cool interactions that built upon them both really well as characters and was more engaging to me than any scene Hajime has had with any other character and then she died the next scene.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:59
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Alfalfa The Roach posted:Was looking through the thread again and I rediscovered this gem He was 30 percent sure.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:00
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So what was the deal with Komaeda knowing all about Junko and Mukuro? Are they ever going to explain that?
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Sep 9, 2016 15:46
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his luck doesn't just protect his well being. it supports whatever he is doing, and nagito is always doing hope stuff (whatever the heck that means). a series of incredibly improbable coincidences clueing him into junko's poo poo would be perfectly normal for him.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:53
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:So what was the deal with Komaeda knowing all about Junko and Mukuro? Are they ever going to explain that? "Oh look, this random sheet of paper detailing Junko's plan just happened to float by me." Do you really have to ask with Nagito's luck?
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Sep 9, 2016 15:56
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it was a lucky guess
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Sep 9, 2016 15:57
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I love seeing Makoto and Nagisa juxtaposed as SHSL lucky students. Tickles me infinitely.
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Sep 9, 2016 16:06
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I take back everything I said about Junko being too crazy and not manipulative enough. This is the crazy manipulative bitch we all know and love. That episode was actually quite legitimately disturbing. I wonder if Matsuda knows what she is doing with what I assume are his techniques. Wyvernil posted:Though we're still not sure why he did it. Chapter 0 of DR2 suggested that he had a more complex motive than just "I'm bored, I want despair lady back." It's possible that he wanted to go back to be Hajime. Considering he can basically predict the future he might have done the whole thing knowing she would fail and he would get a personality back. Slokir fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 16:40
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Clarste posted:They kind of wrote themselves into a corner when they decided to make a story that would actually show The Worst Most Despair Inducing Event in History or whatever. Having the audience think "this is a little excessive" is way better than having them think "what, that's it?" I have to say, I really like that they're actually going there. It would have been very easy for them to just pussy out on this, so it's good that they're actually going all out with the hosed up poo poo. I did not expect hacksaw suicide and lobotomy to be added to the list. And it is quite impressive that they constantly seem to be able to top themselves when it comes to the hosed up poo poo. The first killing game induced a sort of queasyness inside of me, but no real major discomfort. I was too busy marvelling at the imagery and sound playing together in perfect dissonance. The lobotomy scene, though? Yeah, legit discomfort. At this point, I'm expecting them to dedicate an entire episode to the ritual suicide of the Reserve Course. Slokir posted:I take back everything I said about Junko being too crazy and not manipulative enough. This is the crazy manipulative bitch we all know and love. Yeah, the scene where she just destroys Mitarai was something that was severely lacking from the Junko we've seen before. loving beautiful.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:01
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Crack Theory time: The real, brainwashed Yukizome ends up missing/presumed dead. Chiaki asks the Imposter to make her look like Yukizome in her grief and to prevent any questions. This is the person killed at the FF in Future. The real Yukizome is running the despair game, still brainwashed and using Munakata as her pawn.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:18
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i don't think it is possible for anyone but yukizome to even pretend to like munakata that much. even sakakura's supposed loyalty was at least half because of him being hung up on yukizome.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:22
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I mean at the end of the day Sakakura ended up being a pretty stupid dude with somewhat decent intentions who kept loyalty to the wrong person and it made him a worse person for it along with his own resentment he tried to keep in check. It's hard to feel too bad for the guy given what he's done, but he's something of an actual sympathetic dude and I can't say he's the worst anymore. Like it's harder to feel sorry for Munakata or Ruruka or Izayoi or Mitarai tbh, but I think I've softened up on the dude a bit.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:29
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Baal posted:I mean at the end of the day Sakakura ended up being a pretty stupid dude with somewhat decent intentions who kept loyalty to the wrong person and it made him a worse person for it along with his own resentment he tried to keep in check. It's hard to feel too bad for the guy given what he's done, but he's something of an actual sympathetic dude and I can't say he's the worst anymore. Like it's harder to feel sorry for Munakata or Ruruka or Izayoi or Mitarai tbh, but I think I've softened up on the dude a bit. Is it really hard to feel bad for Mitarai?
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Sep 9, 2016 17:35
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sakakura fell in with the wrong crowd, but he was still a thug whose default reaction was to beat up anyone he didn't like. he was a delinquent who never grew up.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:41
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TheMcD posted:Is it really hard to feel bad for Mitarai? Yeah, I mean he blindly trusted Junko and still created a brainwashing anime. He comes off as pathetic, especially whenever he interacts with the Impostor. What happens to him is terrible, but I don't feel sorry for him at all. He's not detestable like Ruruka and Munakata, but he's also not really someone I care much for. Serious Frolicking posted:sakakura fell in with the wrong crowd, but he was still a thug whose default reaction was to beat up anyone he didn't like. he was a delinquent who never grew up. Oh absolutely, I'm not saying the dude is some majorly tragic figure. Just that I actually could muster some ability to feel sympathetic for him. Like I can look at the guy and see that he's a guy who resorts to violence first and that's really bad, but it's mostly because it's all he really knows is how to punch his problems. It doesn't justify what he does, but it does make me see things from his perspective... a little bit and that does incite some complexity of character which makes me appreciate him more than I thought I was going to after... uhhh a lot of this loving show making me dislike him.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:49
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TheMcD posted:Is it really hard to feel bad for Mitarai? Hard to feel bad for the guy that was going to brainwash the world regardless of Junko and won't stop saying "It's not my fault, it's not my fault"? Kinda.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:50
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actually it's not his fault
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Sep 9, 2016 17:59
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Baal posted:Yeah, I mean he blindly trusted Junko and still created a brainwashing anime. He comes off as pathetic, especially whenever he interacts with the Impostor. What happens to him is terrible, but I don't feel sorry for him at all. He's not detestable like Ruruka and Munakata, but he's also not really someone I care much for. Kay Kessler posted:Hard to feel bad for the guy that was going to brainwash the world regardless of Junko and won't stop saying "It's not my fault, it's not my fault"? Kinda. I suppose. I mean, to start off, I'm not buying that his techniques are literally brainwashing, they're just the same techniques that find use in advertising and that kind of stuff these days. So far, this great despair anime has a 50% success rate, and the one success was somebody who was already a complete mental wreck. So for me, "I'm going to brainwash the world" becomes "I'm going to make a really inspiring anime", which is considerably lower on the scale of terrible things to be doing. As for trusting Junko, she wouldn't be much of a manipulator if she couldn't get people to trust her, or? Given that Mitarai had pretty much exactly one ally in his quest to create distilled hope in anime form, people genuinely being excited about what he's doing are in small supply. So when an actually charismatic person shows up and basically just steamrolls him mentally, I can't exactly blame him for folding like a house of cards. He could have never been ready for it. And afterwards, he's forced into everything he does by threat of death by super-soldier, and he almost turns into even more of a wreck than Mikan, which is saying something. So that's where I'm coming from when I say I feel sorry for Mitarai.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:04
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It's not like brainwashing the world to hope is any better than brainwashing it to despair
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Sep 9, 2016 18:07
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he meant well, but his all consuming obsession with making the best anime ever that everyone would love was intrinsically flawed. the best he could come up with was to force people to love it by fiddling with their minds.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:07
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i'm shaking my head if you wouldn't watch and love Mitarai's feel-good slice-of-life anime of the year every year
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Sep 9, 2016 18:07
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Serious Frolicking posted:he meant well, but his all consuming obsession with making the best anime ever that everyone would love was intrinsically flawed. the best he could come up with was to force people to love it by fiddling with their minds. this is basically all of fiction
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Sep 9, 2016 18:08
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a cartoon duck posted:this is basically all of fiction uh, no? no work of fiction has universal appeal. there will always be people who don't like it for whatever reason. seeing that as a problem to be solved (with brainwashing) is an inherently childish idea.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:10
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making a 100% lovable by all anime is a childish idea using images and sound to evoke emotions in the viewer is just cinematography
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Sep 9, 2016 18:16
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a cartoon duck posted:making a 100% lovable by all anime is a childish idea he used brainwashing techniques specifically so everyone would love it. obviously that isn't really possible in reality, but in this setting the freakish savants do impossible poo poo all the time.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:30
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maybe he should've used more brainwashing techniques, so that Junko would've become SHSL Hope when watching his work-in-progress
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Sep 9, 2016 18:32
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well, the idea was that it wasn't finished. he probably could have achieved his goal eventually if he hadn't met junko and managed to avoid dying of exhaustion. not the "bring hope to the world" part of course, but "anime movie that everyone with intact vision and hearing unconditionally loves", sure, why not?
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Sep 9, 2016 18:42
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I actually wanna expand a bit upon this, I feel like it's a big part of why I liked Chihiro and don't care about Mitarai even though they're fundamentally very similar characters. Chihiro is also another character from the outset of you learning anything about him is sort of pathetic and helpless. He doesn't value himself, he let people walk over him, and in general was scared of any sort of confrontation and hid behind his talent to express himself in any way. A big part of Chihiro's entire character arc is self-actualization and finding the strength to admit he has a hand in his own life and he has to be the one who pushes himself to better himself. He can't let his past problems be what makes who he is now or in the future. This contrasts with Mondo, who can't get over his feelings of guilt for his hand in his brother's death even though his own brother wasn't angry at him in his dying words. It haunts Mondo to the point of anger when he sees this frail kid trying to put his past behind him and better himself and it pisses him off. He's not pissed off at Chihiro, he's pissed off at himself for being so weak and in a fit of rage kills this poor kid. It feels bad for both of them because they are both good people at heart who wanted to better themselves, but couldn't through genuine human fault. It's a very basic and tried story, but it's told very well without having to show either character as genuinely pathetic or depressing people. Compared to Mitarai who is only properly introduced to do you like 3 episodes into the Despair side and doesn't get any meaningful presence in the Future side for like 5 episodes. He's introduced to you being scolded to by his only friend, Mitarai comes off as pathetic on his introduction, but doesn't feel like there's any room for him to grow out of that or better himself. He has no aspirations other than to make this big anime that will inspire the world. He has a lot of Chihiro's traits, but none of the character's strength or determination. Every scene he's in his only stake in anything is finishing his anime, he doesn't even associate with his classmates because he doesn't deem socializing as worth his time because his anime must be finished. Mitarai's entire character is based solely in his talent. Something the series in general portrays as very negative and naturally you'd believe he would build from there, but he can't in Despair Side because he is going to help create the status quo that becomes DR1, so he has to come off as a failure in his efforts. However when Mitarai fails his blame goes towards Junko and his talent. Despite the fact he created the tool that would be used by Junko to help ruin others lives, he himself feels it is her fault and disavows his talent, his whole reason for being up until that point. It makes him come off as incredibly childish and unwilling to take stake in anything he has had a personal hand in because he didn't intend for it to happen and as such it's hard to feel sorry for him. It's easy to see where Mitarai was manipulated and that he is not entirely at fault for everything, but he can't just say he didn't do anything wrong when his creation was still used to hurt others and say it's the fault of anime's existence that this happened when he himself put his entire life into this. I actually have a similar opinion of Sakakura in relation to like Fuyuhiko, but it's much more favorable in Sakakura's side and by much more favorable, I mean I don't call Sakakura pathetic 20 times. Now of course since this is Danganronpa he will more than likely have some epiphany in Future Side and take responsibility for what's happened... or he'll die and never see character resolution because Danganronpa 3 is a loving bad show that refuses to actually finish character arcs or show you things that would have been better left to imagination.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:44
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Rarity posted:It's not like brainwashing the world to hope is any better than brainwashing it to despair One of these things doesn't lead to the world being literally on fire though. but yes I get the gist of what you're saying
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Sep 9, 2016 18:53
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I also forgot to mention that the people Mitarai contrast with all are much stronger characters than him. The Impostor is someone who takes charge of the things that mean something to him and values others along with himself. He masquerades as other people, but he doesn't actually try to negate what exists of his identity while doing this. A really cool thing in both DR2 and this show is that he is something of a leader figure despite the fact he impersonates others and it's the only thing that's consistent between his impersonating of both Mitarai and Togami that he refuses to let others fail themselves or hurt one another. It's a really cool thing about the character, but Mitarai just dies when you try to make him the foil to him, he's not nearly as strong of a character. Then there's Junko, who is fuckin... the character with the most presence in Danganronpa as a whole. He just comes off as a giant loser in all of the scenes he's in with these two and he folds as a character in both a literary and presence sense. It's hard to care about a character the show itself refuses to emphasize in relation to others or even feel something as basic as pity for.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:59
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Baal posted:effortpost Pretty good analysis. Yeah I think the main problem was the length, restricting either one to 12 episodes kind of makes both fall short. It was an interesting experiment though. EDIT: like if we had 24 episodes of either I think we'd have something way more solid
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Sep 9, 2016 18:59
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24 episodes of future with like... some dips into the Despair content could've made for a much more solid product, yeah.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:00
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Mitarai being a loser who just shrinks when confronted with all these other larger-than-life characters is kinda the point, though. I'm a bit curious how you'd improve on the character or his presentation while keeping that aspect of him. Unless the idea would be just to remove him. He does kinda end up filling Ruruka's niche for the most part in that both are characters that strongly identify with their one talent and make it their be-all-end-all but end up destroying themselves and everything around them for it. I do expect him to get some kinda redemption story by the end of Future but I guess we'll see how that goes.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:12
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