Factorio: Captain Planet doesn't stand a chance.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Factorio: Captain Planet doesn't stand a chance.

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

GotLag posted:

scram

SCRAM is the best term that ever came from nuclear power. Does it stand for Super-Criticality Rapid Arrest Mechanism? Shutdown Control Rod Actuator Machanism? Safety Contol Random Axe Man as the legend goes? We may never know...

I've been hands on with a number of reactors and will gladly answer any mechanic/physics questions that come up.

the way if imagine it working best in factorio is that the reactor building takes water and creates "High Pressure Steam". Which is consumed by steam turbine buildings plus a small quantity of lubricant that would generate like 20MW each or something. But the reactor still has hot water that it needs to get rid of in a cooling tower, or "radioactive coolant" that can't be used in a regular steam engine. You'd be able to run a number of turbines off a single reactor limited only by how much water you could pump through(which fluid physics would probably limit to something like 500water/sec with a ton of pumps. So 5 water/MW ish rate. And the reactor would also have a poison capsule effect around it for a radiation field, which takes a long time to decay so you can't just walk over and pick it up, and forces you to spread your power plant out slightly.

E; I just thought of this... But that means that if you accidentally ran out of lubricant you would suddenly have a serious issue with a huge amount of built up steam and heat. Chernobyl it.

M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Sep 6, 2016

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:09

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# ? May 12, 2024 07:32

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Truga posted:

Steam engines do not eat more water than they need unless said water isn't heated up enough.

I feel like I should have known this given the smartness of boilers not to heat anymore than you need. That kind of makes the whole temperature dynamic seem less interesting though, steam engines take priority without circuit shenanigans and I can't think of a shed event that spans even one steam engine's output that isn't picking up the entire base to move somewhere new. By the time you have migrating mining fields its such a small fraction of your total consumption to even call a shed.

~~Can you output reactor temp on the circuit network so you can at least pretend you are making something smart by hooking up the cooling tower pump to reactor temperature?~~ Duh it says so.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 6, 2016

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:15

Renegret: May 26, 2007; THANK YOU FOR CALLING HELP DOG, INC.

YOUR POSITION IN THE QUEUE IS *pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt*

Cat Army Sworn Enemy

M_Gargantua posted:

But the reactor still has hot water that it needs to get rid of in a cooling tower

...or put back into your water source, raising temperature levels and contributing to the further destruction of the local ecosystem.

I know it's not possible in the game engine, but a man can dream, right?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:15

Jabor: Jul 16, 2010; #1 Loser at SpaceChem

One thought would be to make water flow the limiting factor. So you can start off running the reactor open-loop with regular steam engines (essentially using the reactor as just a uranium-powered boiler). But then to crank things up you add turbines (which take in superhot steam and produce regular-hot water and electricity) in the middle, and then to push things even further you add cooling towers which take hot water and produce a smaller amount of cold water, which you can funnel back into the reactor in much larger quantities than you can pump it out of the ground.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:24

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

A cooling tower outputting cold water just shortens the distance you have to pump a huge quantity of water. Yes it's more realistic but doesn't really add to usefulness. Same with adding preheaters which recirculate waste steam, doable and realistic but not super useful in the context of factorio. Unless getting nuclear fuel is difficult enough to make every efficiency gain worthwhile.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:29

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Don't real nuclear power plants have some reliance on external power to bootstrap?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:29

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

Sounds reasonable, we'll see once you release for testing.

The problem with having disasters or accidents tied to it (mostly M_Gargs ideas) is MP play where things are unattended. And you cut down the potential audience if people have to babysit the thing. They'll do what I said before "screw this, plonk down a zillion panels".

On the MP teams discussion front, there is a mod for it already. I'd never looked at it because of the name, I assumed it was something to do with social media

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=25680

It actually lets you set up team games and looks like it's fairly advanced in development.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:34

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

The more I think about it the more I think any power based mod is doomed to strapping onto an already over solved power system.

Like the stock so far is coal steam is reliant on coal but can soak large demand (lasers only at this point) easier. Solar is infinite, cheap, but can't soak a good laser bank until you have >N accumulators and takes a lot of space which might be a concern due to biter settings.

So solar is already an upgrade to coal in most situations because coal needs to go to plastic and solar pays itself off before you can blink in that regard. So then what, is nuclear an upgrade to coal but before solar? A sidegrade to solar? An upgrade to solar? Any upgrade to solar is going to be real impressively cheap, unless you nerf solar, and what, nuclear is now just an upgrade to coal with solar in irrelevance?

There's bits of dynamics that make coal better at certain points, except everyone has moved on from lasers to flamethrowers anyway. So we're left with power demands without a lot of dynamic soaks or sheds, so we can differentiate by ability to soak or shed but it might not be relevant unless you do a lot of circuit wiring to shut off idle assemblers.

So that's why my dream nuclear option would at best be a bit of a replacement for coal. You can use your existing infrastructure, you add some infrastructure to make it recycle near steady state so it is material competitive with solar. If electricity dynamics are rejiggered such that soaks and sheds matter again, steam engines remain the winners in some dynamic concerns and are usable throughout the game due to material competitiveness to solar.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:42

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

gently caress fission, I want a fusion power mod. We already have fusion reactors for power armor, let's take it one step further and power our freaking bases with it. You'd need a fuckoff huge accumulator field to power the initial activation, for sure.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 19:04

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

I've been playing with AutoFill and Long Reach and it's amazing how much they combine to trivialize the biters. You drop down thirty turrets in their base and they instantly start unloading their magazines and three seconds later, everything is dead.

Is there any way to mod turrets so that it takes them a few seconds to become 'live' after they're deployed? If it took one or two seconds for them to deploy - or, for a long-reach situation, ten to fifteen seconds - then you could have the convenience of AutoFill without being able to use turrets as instant-deploy killbots.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 19:13

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

I've been playing with AutoFill and Long Reach and it's amazing how much they combine to trivialize the biters. You drop down thirty turrets in their base and they instantly start unloading their magazines and three seconds later, everything is dead.

Is there any way to mod turrets so that it takes them a few seconds to become 'live' after they're deployed? If it took one or two seconds for them to deploy - or, for a long-reach situation, ten to fifteen seconds - then you could have the convenience of AutoFill without being able to use turrets as instant-deploy killbots.

I'll skip the obvious solution of "just don't do that then" and move straight to plan B. Unpack autofill, edit it to not fill turrets, repack it and use that.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 19:22

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Ratzap posted:

I'll skip the obvious solution of "just don't do that then" and move straight to plan B. Unpack autofill, edit it to not fill turrets, repack it and use that.

Well yeah I could obviously just not do that but in this playthrough I don't really care about struggling mightily against the biters. I'm more curious about whether my idea - turrets having an activation delay - is even possible. I don't know anything else in the game that isn't fully active the second you put it down.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 19:30

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

I'm gonna have to learn how to mod and make one of those "free energy" devices that they sell to idiots.

It's basically an inefficient accumulator, but you don't get to see how much stored energy is in there.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 19:33

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

Well yeah I could obviously just not do that but in this playthrough I don't really care about struggling mightily against the biters. I'm more curious about whether my idea - turrets having an activation delay - is even possible. I don't know anything else in the game that isn't fully active the second you put it down.

Not like you need autofill. I just zip around the map with 6 exoskeletons dragging big power poles with me, then just drop a laser bunker blueprint by any nests I come across. Kills the nest approximately instantly. I lose the occasional construction bot, but who cares.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 20:00

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

Well yeah I could obviously just not do that but in this playthrough I don't really care about struggling mightily against the biters. I'm more curious about whether my idea - turrets having an activation delay - is even possible. I don't know anything else in the game that isn't fully active the second you put it down.

I don't know that you can do a wait or delay but you could make a turret that counted a set number of ticks after being built before it shoots.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 20:06

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

Azhais posted:

Not like you need autofill. I just zip around the map with 6 exoskeletons dragging big power poles with me, then just drop a laser bunker blueprint by any nests I come across. Kills the nest approximately instantly. I lose the occasional construction bot, but who cares.

I care about the amount of time it takes to make the engine, electric engine, and robot frames! Takes forever!

# ? Sep 6, 2016 20:09

Azhais: Feb 5, 2007; Switchblade Switcharoo

GenericOverusedName posted:

I care about the amount of time it takes to make the engine, electric engine, and robot frames! Takes forever!

That's why you just put construction bots on your main bus!

# ? Sep 6, 2016 20:10

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

GenericOverusedName posted:

I care about the amount of time it takes to make the engine, electric engine, and robot frames! Takes forever!

Perhaps...maybe... Automate it?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 20:10

DaveKap: Feb 5, 2006; Pickle: Inspected.

Renegret posted:

FARL jousting

Someone get on it please

.... I think I can actually do this...

Albeit the rules would have to be enforced by the players but... yeah, I have an idea. Maybe I'll try that tonight.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 22:03

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

GenericOverusedName posted:

I care about the amount of time it takes to make the engine, electric engine, and robot frames! Takes forever!

M_Gargantua posted:

Perhaps...maybe... Automate it?

This, I can't imagine making bot parts by hand. Just throw together some assemblers and set a circuit to stop when you get 100 or so.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:36

Ignoranus: Jun 3, 2006; HAPPY MORNING

Ambaire posted:

This, I can't imagine making bot parts by hand. Just throw together some assemblers and set a circuit to stop when you get 100 or so.

Isn't there also a fluid component so you actually HAVE to automate it?

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:56

GenericOverusedName: Nov 24, 2009; KUVA TEAM EPIC

I do automate them, the engines require assemblers to make anyways, and it still takes forever to make a sizable amount of them. I'm impatient.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 01:59

M_Gargantua: Oct 16, 2006; STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES; Exciting Lemon

code:

/c game.player.insert{name="logistic-robot", count=10000}

# ? Sep 7, 2016 02:36

LonsomeSon: Nov 22, 2009; A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

Ambaire posted:

gently caress fission, I want a fusion power mod. We already have fusion reactors for power armor, let's take it one step further and power our freaking bases with it. You'd need a fuckoff huge accumulator field to power the initial activation, for sure.

A buildable "Big Pile of Personal Fusion Reactors" structure, takes 20 of the things and outputs equivalent power that's usable on your grid?

# ? Sep 7, 2016 04:12

LLSix: Jan 20, 2010; The real power behind countless overlords

What's a good layout for greenhouses in Bobs?

I'm thinking

code:

     Greenhouse->box<-Sapling Assembler
                  |
                  V
Same Greenhouse<-box->Same sapling Assembler
                  |
                  V a smart inserter that only takes wood out

Then tile that vertically and horizontally but it feels clunky and I don't have smart inserters yet so its draining out the bottom right now.

This whole double output but not enough to supply another greenhouse thing is a head twister.

For those who haven't played bobs, greenhouses need 10 saplings and water to make 10 wood and 4 saplings

# ? Sep 7, 2016 05:20

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

GenericOverusedName posted:

I do automate them, the engines require assemblers to make anyways, and it still takes forever to make a sizable amount of them. I'm impatient.

More BIGGER

# ? Sep 7, 2016 05:41

Zo: Feb 22, 2005; LIKE A FOX

LLSix posted:

What's a good layout for greenhouses in Bobs?

I'm thinking
code:
     Greenhouse->box<-Sapling Assembler
                  |
                  V
Same Greenhouse<-box->Same sapling Assembler
                  |
                  V a smart inserter that only takes wood out
Then tile that vertically and horizontally but it feels clunky and I don't have smart inserters yet so its draining out the bottom right now.

This whole double output but not enough to supply another greenhouse thing is a head twister.

For those who haven't played bobs, greenhouses need 10 saplings and water to make 10 wood and 4 saplings

You could try having separate input and output belts going opposite directions, and building a separate sapling sorting/assembling unit at the end of the belts that saturates the input belt. This way you can easily expand by extending the belts. You do need smart inserters either way though.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 08:00

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

LLSix posted:

Then tile that vertically and horizontally but it feels clunky and I don't have smart inserters yet so its draining out the bottom right now.

This whole double output but not enough to supply another greenhouse thing is a head twister.

For those who haven't played bobs, greenhouses need 10 saplings and water to make 10 wood and 4 saplings

I just started a v14 bob save last night. I build these as a double row, each row made up of pairs 1 space apart and the pipes facing each other. Water then feeds in from each side. Saplings come down the center on 1 lane, 2nd lane reserved for fertilizer which needs oil but will massively boost wood production. Output wood/saplings goes out to the sides and up, past 2 filter inserters per side which feed buffer boxes (initially you have to run it and hand sort due to no blue boards) and then to output wood buffer boxes. Finally the output passes an assembler which creates more saplings if the amount stored is less than 500 or some arbitrary number you pick.

An image speaks a thousand words right?

# ? Sep 7, 2016 15:13

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

I played a bit more this afternoon. Fixed the pipe in the first image, got blue circuits/green science so I've added the circuit networks controlling seedlings and output. Also build the fertiliser factory but still laying the refinery out.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 18:49

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Seems like the 'best' way to deal with the greenhouse would be to have two smart inserters pulling from each greenhouse, one pulling wood and one pulling saplings, and pushing them on to separate lanes of the belt. Confirm/deny?

# ? Sep 8, 2016 17:59

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

Seems like the 'best' way to deal with the greenhouse would be to have two smart inserters pulling from each greenhouse, one pulling wood and one pulling saplings, and pushing them on to separate lanes of the belt. Confirm/deny?

You'd still have to split them again later or put them on separate belts (which would take up more space and complicate matters). The other problem with that would be early game you have to hand build some blue circuits to get things started. Filter inserters cost 6 blue circuits each (including component costs) which makes 2 per greenhouse very time/effort expensive. My way only costs 4 and gets the thing running making wood while you get on with the process of automating green science and blue circuits.
When I build the next factory for blue science upwards I'll probably split the seedlings off at the greenhouse but for the bootstrap factory (does all green science and provides parts for the real thing) it's good like this.

# ? Sep 8, 2016 22:15

CanOfMDAmp: Nov 15, 2006; Now remember kids, no running, no diving, and no salt on my margaritas.

Mod idea: Filtering rail cars.

A set of 5 color-coded filters available on a rail car that could be used to set specific numbers of stacks to items in the cargo interface.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 05:12

LonsomeSon: Nov 22, 2009; A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

Seems like the 'best' way to deal with the greenhouse would be to have two smart inserters pulling from each greenhouse, one pulling wood and one pulling saplings, and pushing them on to separate lanes of the belt. Confirm/deny?

In the marathon game we made extensive use of underground belts and filter inserters to put 'em on separate belts and feed the saplings directly under the structures and into the sapling belt, then blueprints and tiling for days.

e: no, that was in the pre-marathon game, just pulled up an autosave to get a picture and it's some kind of same-side double-belt fast/long-fast inserter abombination. Regardless, it's still pretty long. Also I forgot how hilariously fast exo stacking makes you.

Bob's factories require an amount of wood which becomes pretty shocking under marathon conditions, so we had a pretty loving lengthy greenhouse stack by the time everyone gave up.

LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Sep 9, 2016

# ? Sep 9, 2016 05:14

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

LonsomeSon posted:

Bob's factories require an amount of wood which becomes pretty shocking under marathon conditions, so we had a pretty loving lengthy greenhouse stack by the time everyone gave up.

I dunno about the others but it was part 3 player limit, part 'managed to 'beat' the game despite the marathon crap' and part tired of factorio for a while. Marathon is just a whole new level of bullshit. Seriously, belting copper wire because it was more dense than ingots...

# ? Sep 9, 2016 06:31

Playstation 4: Apr 25, 2014; Unlockable Ben

Ambaire posted:

I dunno about the others but it was part 3 player limit, part 'managed to 'beat' the game despite the marathon crap' and part tired of factorio for a while. Marathon is just a whole new level of bullshit. Seriously, belting copper wire because it was more dense than ingots...

Ambaire, what the gently caress is it with you and throwing yourself into lovely vision mod after lovely grind mod. Gregtech already taught us these things are worthless and here you are again.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 07:26

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

An early Friday patch, 0.14.5 is out

quote:

FactorioBot � Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:39 am

Feature
Added Team Production Challenge scenario to the base game.

Minor features
It is possible to /ban players who aren't present in the map.
The headless server saves the banlist in banlist.json file, so a server owner can maintain a single banlist across multiple maps.
Added /silent-command: Same as /c, but doesn't print the command ran to every player's console. Available only to server admins and over RCON or server console.
Added /purge <player>: removes all messages by the given player from chat. Admin only command.
Added /clear - clears your chat window.
Added /mute and unmute <player>: prevents the given player from talking in chat. Admin only commands.
Added /mutes: displays all muted players.
Added /ignore and unignore <player>: ignores messages from the given player. Admin and RCON messages are still shown.
Added /ignores: displays all players you're ignoring.
Command names in the console can be tab-completed.
Player names in the console can be tab-completed.
Added AFK Auto kick interval to multiplayer host settings (with never as default).

Bugfixes
Fixed that the headless server would create a character when run with --no-auto-pause. This prevented people from joining their own servers. (32143)
Fixed that the game could desync when LuaForce::players was used, as the order was not in well defined order.
Fixed making blueprints wouldn't reset the build rotation. (32251)
Fixed that input actions were triggered even though a text box was focused. (32028)
Fixed that blueprint/deconstruction would run while on the map view. (32296)
Fixed train getting stuck on a yellow signal (28660)
Fixed that the notification about changed research was shown even when the other player selected the same research as already in progress. (32278)
Fixed that underground belt "teleported" few items when the connection was built. (30716)
Fixed that the mod info gui wasn't scrollable, so it didn't fit the screen sometimes. (30158)
Fixed that saving scenario to the same directory it was loaded for resulted in deleting all the script and locale files. (29555)
Fixed that the menu wasn't accessible when the respawn countdown was there, until the menu was closed and opened again.
Fixed inserters sometimes taking items from cargo wagons not in front of it. (32138)
Fixed that clicking a mod's GUI during an autosave would crash the game. (32320)
Fixed /reply wouldn't work properly when players have names with tags.
Fixed shadows being drawn over pipe and storage tank windows.

Scripting
Added LuaEntity::supports_direction
Changed LuaEntity::direction write to not error if the entity doesn't support directions.
Moved the top gui to be above the left gui as in 0.13 (31585)
Added LuaPlayer::afk_ticks and LuaPlayer::online_ticks.

Server ban lists, message controls and AFK kicks: it would seem that hosting the challenge has taught them a little about the general undesirability of humans on the internet.

With 14 getting lots of progress, we may see them call the MP stuff stable soon and move on to 15.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 12:58

lohli: Jun 30, 2008

Did the multiplayer rewrite already make it in with the first .14 release then?

# ? Sep 9, 2016 15:32

Ratzap: Jun 9, 2012; Let no pie go wasted; Soiled Meat

lohli posted:

Did the multiplayer rewrite already make it in with the first .14 release then?

They changed the release plan a month? ago. 0.14 is the MP rewrite and nothing else big feature wise. 0.15 will be the next feature release and should be done about the same time as it was scheduled for before the plan change (November-ish). 0.14 is all about making the MP play scale better and be rock solid.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 15:37

DelphiAegis: Jun 21, 2010

Azhais posted:

Yeah, there's nothing quite like walking into a factorissimo with 96 electric smelters and watching those little guys go

I just want to point out two things:

First, this design is loving amazeballs. Even if you have to build it yourself, the setup of the underground belts is piss easy with the hold-left-click functionality.

Secondly, you can make this a glorious steel ouroboros by feeding iron in two and feeding those outputs into the input (or to make it easier, reversing the directionality of two sets of the inward belts; either or).

# ? Sep 9, 2016 17:27

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# ? May 12, 2024 07:32

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

You would actually want to feed two iron into one steel belt and have one iron left over to be roughly even.

# ? Sep 9, 2016 17:30

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