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its true, he doesnt match the outplay potential of old shen..? also if you think playing around skill cooldowns doesn't have outplay potential idk what to tell you edit: new shen isnt super exciting but old shen was an exceptionally boring piece of poo poo rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 14:40
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As Huni displayed earlier this week, you can use windwall to block the sword moving, hence counterplay. 
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Sep 9, 2016 14:49
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Maybe the wrong sword to die on or whatever, but I feel like the removal of all of the old-style simple interaction characters in favor of needlessly complex mechanics that accomplish the same purpose in prettier but less readily appreciable ways is bad design. The new characters can be tuned up to be better but you end up with having to then overthink really basic stuff when you play them. EG: New Shen, New Soraka, New Taric, New Ryze vs. their old iterations I played all those old champions a lot (Old Shen is probably my highest played/win-rate top lane champion of all time, Old Taric/Soraka are easily some of my highest played/win-rate support champions of all-time, Old Ryze I played a lot but stopped playing him after they chain reworked him) The new designs are better in the sense that they have a lot of conditionals to work with, they are more visually appealing, they take boring concepts and make them flashier for eSports viewers. That said, I dislike the maintenance you have to pay to maximize the use of their abilities versus their old concepts, examples: 1) Shen, Old Q: throw it, it does X single target damage. New Q: drag it into position or through a champion and it does an ever-changing scaling percent damage based on the condition of whether or not you hit an enemy champion 2) Soraka, Old W: throw it, does X single target healing. New W: if you can see your buff window above your character frame and land a Q in a scaling second window you gain a temporary transferable hot effect which you should ideally never heal outside of then you trade your health for a less efficient heal unless you conditionally combo a Starcall. 3) Taric, Old Q: throw it, does X single target healing. New Q: your heal is gaining charges at a interval period that is fluctuating all game based on your ability to apply your passive, it is weak, but AOE, and scales off of multiple variables and unless you are constantly tracking the charges and able math it out on the fly, you can't reasonably be sure how much you are going to hit it for. I like the reliability of the old champion design. Sometimes you're playing a game where you need to make map wide decisions a lot (any game of Shen or Soraka for example) and you just want to drive a really efficient Toyota Camry around the map instead of some hot rear end car. Your options for doing that are slimmer and slimmer these days. Warwick's up next on the simple champion chopping block and it wouldn't surprise me if Annie, Nunu, and a few others got changed as well. Riot seems to be systematically destroying all of the simple mechanic based champions in the game in favor of these really complex conditional systems that aren't really any better than the simple design. I personally don't like it because it trades reliable performance for very unstable yet higher peak performance, and a lot of times I would much rather have the reliability.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:06
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It's more like I think it's a complete waste of new tech that doesn't do anything a regular spell cooldown wouldn't do, and it's extra screen clutter in a game that has a lot of that already. I already said I don't mind New Shen (other than the fact that it killed Support Shen, which was fun.) I mean, Riot's already admitted his rework was kind of bullshit and no one was particularly happy with it.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:15
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In their simplicity they were significantly harder to balance and had extremely swingy levels of strength depending on a patch by patch basis so I think that's a large part of their reworking justification. All of your examples had extreme highs and lows. This isn't to say every rework is better, but thinking of when Soraka was strong toplane as some kitschy gimmick or Taric soloing carries and midlaners through gigantic armor to damage ratios I kinda wanna throw up blood. Warwick definitely needs an update because like several of the reworked champions their simplicity means they're not very interactive for the player or the enemy. As for things I want riot to do just give back skarner's old passive and throw the loving mini game out the window. I don't think they will though a guy can dream. Servaetes fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 15:16
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rabidsquid posted:edit: new shen isnt super exciting but old shen was an exceptionally boring piece of poo poo Pretty much this. I don't love the champion but it's better.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:19
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turning destroyed towers into skarner pillars would probably go a long way for making him feel better
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Sep 9, 2016 15:20
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Servaetes posted:In their simplicity they were significantly harder to balance and had extremely swingy levels of strength depending on a patch by patch basis so I think that's a large part of their reworking justification. All of your examples had extreme highs and lows. Yeah Old Skarner vs New Skarner is the same as Ryze for me. I loved his old design, I'm not really keen on the way his kit is now even if it's strong. Like World of Warcraft for example in the most recent expansion the developers provided philosophic commentary about making a lot of effort to get rid of things like "maintenance buffs" which are essentially just basic counters for things in game that you don't optimally perform if you don't hit them up to a certain level before doing something. Maintenance buffs are basically needless complexity and things like Taric's heal charging passive cooldown tracker are absolutely in that class of really frustrating things to keep track of to optimize performance. Shen's new sword/stick is basically a Shaman totem maintenance buff that you have to shuffle around all game, and I don't know how that's fun for anyone to interact with.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:25
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The juggernaut rework is probably one of the most worthless reworks I've ever seen. The only thing it accomplished is it hosed up S5 worlds. That's it. Like, if you disagree you can make a point in favor of it, but I can't even fathom where one could possibly start to say something halfway legitimate.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:29
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Safety Scissors posted:The juggernaut rework is probably one of the most worthless reworks I've ever seen. The only thing it accomplished is it hosed up S5 worlds. That's it. Like, if you disagree you can make a point in favor of it, but I can't even fathom where one could possibly start to say something halfway legitimate. Yep. Mordekaiser rework was the worst thing that has ever happened to this stupid game.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:32
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Safety Scissors posted:The juggernaut rework is probably one of the most worthless reworks I've ever seen. The only thing it accomplished is it hosed up S5 worlds. That's it. Like, if you disagree you can make a point in favor of it, but I can't even fathom where one could possibly start to say something halfway legitimate.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:32
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Sion.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:33
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Libertine posted:Yeah Old Skarner vs New Skarner is the same as Ryze for me. I loved his old design, I'm not really keen on the way his kit is now even if it's strong. Yeah I totally agree that of the reworks, Shen's incredibly clunky sword is a dumb thing that I don't know why it's there. His old q was bullshit however. I mean I get why it's there and how it's a way to allow him to have the auto attack blocking aura which is super strong but it feels goofy. Taric I admittedly haven't played much of but playing adc it's a lot more painful than what it was to lane with dinky heals BUT the ultimate is insanely powerful so I like that.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:33
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Morde/Taric got me plat last season so I liked it. Some of the jugger-items are still fun. I love Dead Man's Plate.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:38
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mistaya posted:Morde/Taric got me plat last season so I liked it. I actually think that the other juggernaut reworks were mostly successful, but the Morde one was so obviously horrific that there's no excuse.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:41
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Oh it was incredibly broken and stupid and I took full advantage of it.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:42
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mistaya posted:Oh it was incredibly broken and stupid and I took full advantage of it. It was fun to be able to get 20 kills in a standard game of league of legends without even trying, but yeah it had some problems.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:57
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Yo where's my fuckin private lol servers runnin patch 4.20 at?
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Sep 9, 2016 17:12
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Libertine I like New Taric way way more than old Taric. I don't even think the charging heal is that complicated and its better just to use Q to reset your passive over and over since it goes down to 1s cooldown after every passive whack. Old Taric was just very unsatisfying to play because his stun was very slow and ineffective in most cases and the only reason you would pick him, ever, was the enemy team having 4+ AD champions. New Taric occupies a niche that did not exist for me before, a tank support that is very beefy but also plays like a caster/enchanter/whatever like Janna and Soraka. The amount of damage New Taric does is also insane and it's really satisfying to get double kills on him in an all-in botlane.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:23
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I think the reworks have been pretty mixed. New Gangplank, for example, even though it's been incredibly OP in competitive and that is kind of annoying, is actually really fun to play. The Darius and Sion reworks were both really good. Obviously Mordekaiser was awful. And the multiple Ryze reworks have all been pretty dumb and show that Riot just really doesn't know what they want to do with some champs.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:41
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http://lolalytics.com/champion/Taliyah/ goodbye Taliyah
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Sep 9, 2016 17:41
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new taric is so very much better than old taric, it's insane that anybody would want it back soraka at least is a slightly harder case since vintage starcall was a fun skill and i hope they give someone a skill like it in the future, but she's definitely more fun overall to play than she was before i think the best compromise for people who want old taric and old soraka back is to just transplant bristleback directly into league of legends
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Sep 9, 2016 17:48
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Kashuno posted:http://lolalytics.com/champion/Taliyah/ Yeeeesssssssssssssssss
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Sep 9, 2016 17:50
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Libertine posted:The problem is that Gnar and Yasuo have bullshit overloaded kits that make Frozen Mallet ridiculous, so instead of not making them bullshit, they just nerf Mallet because that's actually way easier to do quickly. That does seem a bit stupid. "Hey, this guy is a real problem if he builds this item that isn't a problem on anyone else. Let's wreck the item for everyone."
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Sep 9, 2016 18:12
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KogMaw is back.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:31
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You can actually build mallet try force on basically anyone and it's surprisingly good... Try it sometime.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:32
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SlyFrog posted:That does seem a bit stupid. "Hey, this guy is a real problem if he builds this item that isn't a problem on anyone else. Let's wreck the item for everyone." That's how riot balancing works. If something is a problem, they nerf a bunch of the symptoms, realize it isn't fixing anything, nerf the root cause, then don't revert anything. Look at what happened with Sejuani and Cinderhulk. Sej was overpowered, they nerfed her into the ground, then realized the real problem was tank junglers in general so they nerfed that, then left Sejuani underpowered. This is why LoL has had a downwards power curve over its life.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:33
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SlyFrog posted:That does seem a bit stupid. "Hey, this guy is a real problem if he builds this item that isn't a problem on anyone else. Let's wreck the item for everyone." the item will get nerfed the hero will get buffed the item gets reworked the hero will get nerfed the item will get nerfed the hero gets reworked
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Sep 9, 2016 18:34
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remove all items that aren't swords from the game. all champions are now swords. kindred is two swords.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:43
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I've been playing since 2011 and it is actually kind of funny how much weaker items have gotten and how much lower average stats have gotten and how much slower everyone is while at the same time champ skills are now absurd nonsense that can redefine the game or do 10% max health with no items or whatever.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:47
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i think max builds for AP champs usually result in about 650-700AP before blue buff/elixir/baron. it's a cruel joke that i can't hit 1000AP on every champion anymore
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Sep 9, 2016 18:57
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Work Friend Keven posted:You can actually build mallet try force on basically anyone and it's surprisingly good... Try it sometime. This is kind of like how every jungler built iceborn gauntlet for two patches and it was actually the best thing to do. e: 
Sexpansion fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 18:58
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Endorph posted:This is why LoL has had a downwards power curve over its life. Is this actually true? Cho'Gath has been changed probably under a dozen times total and isn't a power pick, and champions like Galio haven't been really nerfed since s1 and buffed now and then are still almost unplayed. New abilities also introduce power that was never around previously- what old champion had comparability mobility to Kalista or Yasuo. or single auto burst on the level of Jhin? Yeah a bunch of stuff from beta has been progressively toned down as the meta has evolved and it's started to truly shine, Twisted Fate being the most notable example, but I'm not sure that if you straight up lined up the cast of S1 or 2 champions with the cast of S6 champions the early ones would be the ones getting picked.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:15
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No but if you lined them up and handed the s2 champs their 2k gold wits ends and frozen hearts they would brutally and insanely stomp the noob dog "Jihn" and they'd all win their lanes due to all having 50 more health, 4 more ad, and 6 more hp5 at level 1.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:19
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Also chogath has been nerfed into the fwiggin ground what are you talking about.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:20
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i liked when you could start 4 potions and a fort pot and a ward and ignite the guy and fight to death whenever you wanted
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Sep 9, 2016 19:21
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The Season One 13 Health Pot Morde Mid Start calling to check in
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Sep 9, 2016 19:35
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Hi I'm post release post buff Lee Sin who could E twice in one cooldown if you double tapped the key right e: I brought my friend release Xin
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Sep 9, 2016 19:41
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Why did they nerf Taliyah anyway? It didn't seem like she was particularly oppressive.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:50
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She had a 53 or 55 percent win rate and was nuts in comp play
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Sep 9, 2016 19:55
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