Lets All Play Battletech and rewrite Inner Sphere history

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Tran: Feb 17, 2011; It's a pleasure to meet all of you. Especially in such a fine settin' as this. Just need us some music an' a brawl an' we'll be set.

PoptartsNinja posted:

The Tortuga Fusiliers were originally a Rim World Republic unit

Anyone that can come up with the GLD-2Rp "Mad Maximus" needs to have their own Solaris garage. In fact, there should be an entire tournament dedicated to only their designs.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 04:26

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# ? May 25, 2024 14:21

Rorahusky: Nov 12, 2012; Transform and waaauuuugh out!

Lord Koth posted:

Just some overall thoughts on this mini-campaign.

1. While there have been generally excellent tactics along with an astonishing amount of luck, the overall degree of difficulty for the entire mini-campaign has seemed lower than average. There have definitely been relatively easy, as well as rather hard missions in the past, but not usually for an entire stretch like this. So far they've gotten allied running bombs that could take out entire groups of enemy mechs that the OpFor almost completely ignored, overall superior air support, and this mission a super mech in support. This is not even getting into all the various goodies the players have been allowed to run around with, combined with good pilots. To try and put it in objective terms, the battles going in have felt epic and tense, given the size of the forces involved, but not particularly mechanically difficult. This going on for a multi-mission stretch, combined with the fluff generally pushing that they're supposedly narratively difficult missions, has really left me feeling it's a bit disjointed.

2. I think the most poignant example was the Mad Cat Mk. II jumping backwards directly into range of 5 enemy mechs on Turn 12. I can understand not wanted to screw over the players with an ACE, but on the other hand you've done it multiple times in the past - generally when Elementals or their variants appeared - with less warning than this one, where you mentioned there were ways the players could have noticed it, along with playing them extremely viciously. Sure, playing the thing like this was an actual tourney to its full dickish extent would have been terrible, but there's a vast degree of separation between those two points. The players were already winning at that point, and given it's still only a 4/6/4 means that where it could go is still predictable and plannable for. Basically, while constantly hiding in the water only to jump out every few turns to harass someone in a bad position would have been terrible, just using the terrain and smoke to limit the number of sight lines to it would have been better than that.

3. I don't know, maybe it's just looking back at all the various matches, and it really feels that, win or lose, some missions weren't particularly fun for the participants, either due to equipment or enemy tactics or both, whereas this entire stretch of a huge number of players has been getting a completely free run of cool stuff in relatively easy missions.

I wouldn't exactly call these set of missions easy. The first one, maybe, since that was the opening mission of the campaign. Even then though, while we might have had air support, so did the enemy, and we also got very lucky with the Patrollers managing to completely ruin two enemy 'Mechs before they even had a chance to get into combat.

Air Raid on the other hand was a complete and total fluke of the dice, as the PCs rolled super well. Had the random number god not been so keen on seeing a pile of dead clanners, we could have easily lost half the unit to those absurd numbers that were being thrown at us, even with the excellent tactics we used.

Mission 3 was certainly bloodier, but again, the PCs managed though good tactics and favorable rolls to crush the Clanners. Now granted, part of that was due to the Nergal, but this was still a mission that could have seen half the players dead if things went south.

All three missions only seemed easy on account of experienced players making the most of their opportunities, and dice that wanted the players to succeed.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 04:59

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

Also, the Nergal was a player. So even if you count that as trying to make a mission easy for some reason, that is because Xarbala used the tools he was given well.

It still didn't LOOK easy though. That looked like a hell of a fight to me.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 05:32

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Also don't forget their first fight, where they had the air support, they badly needed the force multiplier because they were a bunch of scruffy mercs using mostly IS tech against clantech. Also, one of the big reasons their air support survived to help them was the AA mech actually backing up the fighters successfully and hitting clanner aerospace. They had to work well with their support to hold the field.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 05:34

Pattonesque: Jul 15, 2004; johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

we were barely hanging on there at the end, too. one or two bad turns and it might have gone the other way

# ? Sep 10, 2016 05:48

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I am genuinely astonished we only lost one pilot with all that headcap that's been flying around this campaign.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 05:51

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

It wasnt even a proper death to another mech. It was an accident.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 05:55

Ice Fist: Jun 20, 2012; ^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

As a pilot in the first mission of the campaign given two pretty dinky light mechs I can say with certainty that I had fun getting those mechs destroyed

Would do again. Also I'm glad that COOTS and IRIS both lived through this with their amazing callsign backstories.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 06:00

Shoeless: Sep 2, 2011

RA Rx posted:

Hardened Armor: Yeah, good points Shoeless. I definitely wouldn't want a hardened Atlas 3 unless we already have an HGR version. A hundred-ton hardened mech would be an excellent damage soak though...

If you want an example of a 100 ton hardened armor mech, look no further than the Great Turtle. 100 ton quad mech, 3/4/3... and the firepower of a mech less than half its tonnage and rather short range to boot. I feel Hardened Armor actually tends to work best on either Superheavies who are going to be slow as molasses anyway and could use the extra protection since they're unlikely to break even on TMM, or Light/Medium mechs who can still maintain decent speeds and where the extra survivability will be most noticeable.

Also vehicles, Hardened armor is great for vehicles since they get TACed way more often than mechs. Even if you end up with the same amount of effective armor points, swapping a vehicle over to Hardened armor can be super useful to keep it in the fight.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 07:04

TheParadigm: Dec 10, 2009

Shoeless posted:

Also vehicles, Hardened armor is great for vehicles since they get TACed way more often than mechs. Even if you end up with the same amount of effective armor points, swapping a vehicle over to Hardened armor can be super useful to keep it in the fight.

Huh.

how much usable tonnage do you lose on a vehicle using both hardened armor and reinforced structure?

# ? Sep 10, 2016 07:07

Shoeless: Sep 2, 2011

TheParadigm posted:

Huh.

how much usable tonnage do you lose on a vehicle using both hardened armor and reinforced structure?

I don't believe vehicles can use Reinforced Structure, but if they could I'd imagine it weighs 2x the normal tonnage like it does for 'mechs. Hardened Armor, as I mentioned, you can get effective use out of it with vees by simply have the same tonnage in Hardened Armor as standard armor, so unless you want to give it additional points you wouldn't lose any tonnage, just +1 to driving tests (which non-VTOL/hovercraft rarely need to take, especially compared to mechs) and -1 to Flank MP. Something like a Hardened Armor Vedette for instance, actually gets a lot more survivable since it's still decently zippy for a medium tracked tank, and you don't worry nearly so much about crits. Give it a Fuel Cell engine instead of ICE and suddenly you're flush with tonnage to upgrade its gun to an AC/10 or more armor or who knows.

I would love to see a run of PTNverse quick and dirty vehicle variants that just make a straight swap to hardened armor, and/or Fuel Cell engines. Still cheap, but more likely to survive.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 07:14

Picard Day: Dec 18, 2004

Shoeless posted:

I don't believe vehicles can use Reinforced Structure, but if they could I'd imagine it weighs 2x the normal tonnage like it does for 'mechs. Hardened Armor, as I mentioned, you can get effective use out of it with vees by simply have the same tonnage in Hardened Armor as standard armor, so unless you want to give it additional points you wouldn't lose any tonnage, just +1 to driving tests (which non-VTOL/hovercraft rarely need to take, especially compared to mechs) and -1 to Flank MP.

In the past I have found Vehicle pilot skill most important for any kind of fast APC because holy crap can ramming mechs can be funny. Nothing like taking out a Victor with a dinky heavy APC by ramming it off into an elevation change and triggering an ammo explosion from the fall.

You see quite a few new vehicles using hardened armor just for the TAC resistance in the latest TRO's. I think almost all of the Gun Trailers use it (speaking of tech I hope we might see soon gun trailers are pretty fun.)

# ? Sep 10, 2016 07:29

dis astranagant: Dec 14, 2006

Picard Day posted:

In the past I have found Vehicle pilot skill most important for any kind of fast APC because holy crap can ramming mechs can be funny. Nothing like taking out a Victor with a dinky heavy APC by ramming it off into an elevation change and triggering an ammo explosion from the fall.

You see quite a few new vehicles using hardened armor just for the TAC resistance in the latest TRO's. I think almost all of the Gun Trailers use it (speaking of tech I hope we might see soon gun trailers are pretty fun.)

The Badger's true calling. Also that of the Savannah Master.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 07:31

Shoeless: Sep 2, 2011

Picard Day posted:

In the past I have found Vehicle pilot skill most important for any kind of fast APC because holy crap can ramming mechs can be funny. Nothing like taking out a Victor with a dinky heavy APC by ramming it off into an elevation change and triggering an ammo explosion from the fall.

You see quite a few new vehicles using hardened armor just for the TAC resistance in the latest TRO's. I think almost all of the Gun Trailers use it (speaking of tech I hope we might see soon gun trailers are pretty fun.)

Ah, true. I never really used that tactic myself, but if you plan to do it then yeah, Hardened armor isn't a good idea. On the other hand, the best rammers are probably hovercraft since they can go so fast and they can't use Hardened armor anyway, so the problem sort of solves itself. For an MBT sort of thing though, like the Vedette or Manticore or similar, I think Hardened Armor is quite useful.

And yeah, we're seeing a lot more vees taking advantage of the options available these days, which I am quite happy about. It feels like Battletech is finally managing to mix the meta, the way people play, with the actual narrative. Like with Aerospace fighters, a lot of them have adopted Laser-reflective armor since stuff like clan large pulse lasers and pulse lasers from other ASF are good at hitting and downing aircraft, so halving damage from those things is great and ASF generally don't care about the double damage from physicals. And then you get the logical response to this, some ASFs being designed with more missile/ballistic arsenals that don't care about reflective armor, or even something like a Long Tom Cannon that, being an artillery-type attack, does do double damage against reflective. It's all really quite neat and I like it and goddamnit, IlClan needs to come out already so we can see more cool stuff! What's the hold up CGL?

# ? Sep 10, 2016 08:16

Tank Boy Ken: Aug 24, 2012; J4G for life; Fallen Rib

PoptartsNinja posted:

My ultimate goal is still to let the players have fun. Not to let them walk all over me, but to present them with a surmountable challenge to see how they handle it.

And you're doing it very well. I think the current missions are no different than the Priate Raid. Which also had a Mech with an Arrow IV, which did deal some damage. :yarr:

# ? Sep 10, 2016 10:34

Green Intern: Dec 29, 2008; Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Ice Fist posted:

Would do again. Also I'm glad that COOTS and IRIS both lived through this with their amazing callsign backstories.

What update are the callsigns explained in? I've been sort of following this a bit scattershot, so I might have missed it.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 13:22

Bacon In A Wok: Jan 27, 2014

Green Intern posted:

What update are the callsigns explained in? I've been sort of following this a bit scattershot, so I might have missed it.

Here.

(Two hundred pages and nearly six months ago...)

# ? Sep 10, 2016 13:32

Realbarrow: Dec 5, 2013

Shoeless posted:

IlClan needs to come out already so we can see more cool stuff! What's the hold up CGL?

The holdup is the sheer amount of dung that entitled cavedwellers on the Battletech forums fling at them for any change they make. It's why we don't get April Fools or Halloween products anymore, it's why they trashed the timeskip from Dark Age to 3250, and it's why we're getting First and Second Succession War sourcebooks when ilClan still hasn't been released.

CGL basically can't do anything exciting (read: different from anybody's entrenched preferences) anymore without some segment of the fanbase throwing an infantile screaming fit of such magnitude that the Catalyst guys just shrug, say "gently caress it", and give Herb Beas license to explode more things.

But hey, how about that PTNverse AU though? IMO, the NRWR's combination of theoretically good intentions, Blakist/ROTS (wait, that's redundant) technology, and potentiallly inevitable villainy due to genetic Amaris megalomania has made them this thread's most interesting faction by far. If this AU had a sourcebook, I would be delighted to start playing tabletop and ATOW games fielding New Rim Worlds Army units. It'd be a refreshing change from playing [Comguard/WOB Militia/Manei Domini/Neo-Comguard/the Republic's Neo-Blakist equivalent of Winter Soldier HYDRA] for the hundredth time.

I wonder what the special rules for Republic special forces (as seen in Ultimatum) or elements of the 331st would be. Or the Demon Hawks for that matter, though they deserve their own supplement at this point.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 18:54

Pattonesque: Jul 15, 2004; johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Realbarrow posted:

I wonder what the special rules for Republic special forces (as seen in Ultimatum) or elements of the 331st would be. Or the Demon Hawks for that matter, though they deserve their own supplement at this point.

I would read a Demon Hawks fluff writeup. I kinda like these characters

# ? Sep 10, 2016 19:09

Shoeless: Sep 2, 2011

Realbarrow posted:

CGL basically can't do anything exciting (read: different from anybody's entrenched preferences) anymore without some segment of the fanbase throwing an infantile screaming fit of such magnitude that the Catalyst guys just shrug, say "gently caress it", and give Herb Beas license to explode more things.

It sounds like, and this is something I never thought I'd say about a game company, they need to stop listening to their fans. Also hasn't Herb not been the line dev for a while now?

# ? Sep 10, 2016 20:50

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

Realbarrow posted:

But hey, how about that PTNverse AU though? IMO, the NRWR's combination of theoretically good intentions, Blakist/ROTS (wait, that's redundant) technology, and potentiallly inevitable villainy due to genetic Amaris megalomania has made them this thread's most interesting faction by far. If this AU had a sourcebook, I would be delighted to start playing tabletop and ATOW games fielding New Rim Worlds Army units. It'd be a refreshing change from playing [Comguard/WOB Militia/Manei Domini/Neo-Comguard/the Republic's Neo-Blakist equivalent of Winter Soldier HYDRA] for the hundredth time.

I wonder what the special rules for Republic special forces (as seen in Ultimatum) or elements of the 331st would be. Or the Demon Hawks for that matter, though they deserve their own supplement at this point.

I would legit buy TRO:PTNverse 30xx sourcebooks for real money.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 22:15

TildeATH: Oct 21, 2010; by Lowtax

DatonKallandor posted:

I would legit buy TRO:PTNverse 30xx sourcebooks for real money.

Just reboot Battletech with PTNverse as the canon storyline. We're rebooting everything now with better stories, isn't it about time we fix battletech?

I don't care what they have to do to make it work, have a tetatae go back in time or something.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 22:20

Shoeless: Sep 2, 2011

PTNverse Battletech cartoon. But it needs to have the same production values and attention to detail as the current one.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 22:28

Loxbourne: Apr 6, 2011; Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

Pattonesque posted:

I would read a Demon Hawks fluff writeup. I kinda like these characters

Maybe we can talk PTN (and some supporting authors so he doesn't keel over from exhaustion) into writing one!

# ? Sep 10, 2016 23:11

Pooncha: Feb 15, 2014; Making the impossible possumable

We should also make a Demon Hawks logo to emblazon proudly on the book covers. :v:

# ? Sep 10, 2016 23:18

SIGSEGV: Nov 4, 2010

Pooncha posted:

We should also make a Demon Hawks logo to emblazon proudly on the book covers.

An Atlas leg and an HGR crossed over a black and red field, a crowned Atlas skullface just above with an ever increasing number of stars orbiting it.

# ? Sep 10, 2016 23:36

Voyager I: Jun 29, 2012; This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Even with all the help, the players barely managed to scrape out a technical victory in the first mission. They were probably down in remaining forces had they chosen to force a conclusion to the engagement.

As for the second mission...yeah, you're usually gonna make it look easy when your Atlas scores five kills in three turns and you have robot Jenners solo'ing clan Assaults.

Voyager I fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Sep 11, 2016

# ? Sep 11, 2016 00:01

Pattonesque: Jul 15, 2004; johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Loxbourne posted:

Maybe we can talk PTN (and some supporting authors so he doesn't keel over from exhaustion) into writing one!

Ahhh, he already puts a lot of time into this for free

Put it this way -- I would totally buy something like that one day

# ? Sep 11, 2016 00:01

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Voyager I posted:

Even with all the help, the players barely managed to scrape out a technical victory in the first mission. They were probably down in remaining forces had they chosen to force a conclusion to the engagement.

As for the second mission...yeah, you're usually gonna make it look easy when your Atlas scores five kills in three turns and you have robot Jenners solo'ing clan Assaults.

It should also be noted that in the grand scheme of things the Demon Hawks have only been able to sustain operations because of enormous logistical support and extra-contractual donations from Amaris. Getting ahold of technicians who actually know what they are doing is going to be a really crucial step in putting this Merc Company on a sustainable footing.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 00:09

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Alchenar posted:

It should also be noted that in the grand scheme of things the Demon Hawks have only been able to sustain operations because of enormous logistical support and extra-contractual donations from Amaris. Getting ahold of technicians who actually know what they are doing is going to be a really crucial step in putting this Merc Company on a sustainable footing.

Note the Clanners brought their techs with them, too.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 00:18

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

The logistical support was part of the contract, though. The Demon Hawks are veteran fighters, which are the most precious resource in any war (and the resource the RWR is shortest on.)

When the guys you hired for convoy escort go and kick in the teeth of the entire attack force, it's worth keeping them on.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 00:37

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

My hope is that IlClan is taking so long because the new era we are jumping to basically makes a clean break from modern equipment and makes a fresh start re: weight, damage, heat, all that poo poo.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:24

TildeATH: Oct 21, 2010; by Lowtax

wiegieman posted:

The Demon Hawks are veteran fighters

I thought they were a hastily assembled mercenary company paid for by the rich one.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:30

goatface: Dec 5, 2007; I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.; Grimey Drawer

Yeah, but he's rich and his buddy picks good pilots. They're not some old-money kids out on a joyride in the family Bentley, they're competent people with experience in taking money to kill other people, using big stompy robots.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:36

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

By the time they took the RWR contract, they'd already faced off against the clans -- Bethany is a bondsman and the Phoenix Hawk has a salvaged weapon.

goatface posted:

Yeah, but he's rich and his buddy picks good pilots. They're not some old-money kids out on a joyride in the family Bentley, they're competent people with experience in taking money to kill other people, using big stompy robots.

Yeah, the company commanders are no joke. Duncan can pilot anything, and Jason's only hampered by the ridiculous demands of the machine he's piloting right now.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:38

Pattonesque: Jul 15, 2004; johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

wiegieman posted:

By the time they took the RWR contract, they'd already faced off against the clans -- Bethany is a bondsman and the Phoenix Hawk has a salvaged weapon.

Yeah, the company commanders are no joke. Duncan can pilot anything, and Jason's only hampered by the ridiculous demands of the machine he's piloting right now.

Amaris said that Jason wasn't being challenged in the Phoenix Hawk, which is why he gave him the Screamer

If he survives this campaign he might turn out to be something really special

# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:49

apostateCourier: Oct 9, 2012

PoptartsNinja posted:

The Tortuga Fusiliers were originally a Rim World Republic unit

I would love nothing more than an opportunity to wrassle some clanners into submission.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:52

Realbarrow: Dec 5, 2013

Shoeless posted:

It sounds like, and this is something I never thought I'd say about a game company, they need to stop listening to their fans. Also hasn't Herb not been the line dev for a while now?

He's an assistant dev again, yeah. He did a bunch of the stuff in Historical: First Succession War, because he's the WMD-happy guy, which is more what I was referencing.

And yeah. They really need to stop listening to their fans.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 02:15

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

apostateCourier posted:

I would love nothing more than an opportunity to wrassle some clanners into submission.

The Clanners will land on the pirate world and immediately get welcomed to the capital. Which just happens to be Suplex City.

# ? Sep 11, 2016 02:37

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# ? May 25, 2024 14:21

Servicio en Espanol: Feb 5, 2009

Zaodai posted:

The Clanners will land on the pirate world and immediately get welcomed to the capital. Which just happens to be Suplex City.

Fires raging, ruined buildings, and there, illuminated by the spotlights of a dozen circling news choppers, the titanic screech of tortured metal heralds a Charger putting an Executioner into a camel clutch

# ? Sep 11, 2016 03:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Lets All Play Battletech and rewrite Inner Sphere history

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