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Lebron James just cancelled his visit. https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/773715471795261440
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 04:38 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 08:45 |
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Senator Dick Gordon just proposed granting the president emergency powers, including suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. Only the italicized translation is mine: http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/08/16/gordon-wants-habeas-corpus-suspended-for-drugs-terrorism quote:Congress should suspend writ of habeas corpus, which directs authorities to present a prisoner to the court to determine if the detention is lawful, for cases pertaining to drugs and terrorism, a senator said on Thursday.
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 07:24 |
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I'm trying to imagine an American President, from either party, proposing that they very violently violate Posse Comitatus, and I can't imagine that going over too well.
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 09:04 |
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Xelkelvos posted:I haven't really looked into Nicaragua all that much fwiw, so I'll defer to your judgement there regarding Ortega and he government there. The most I've read up on was a recent article and an NPR story concerning how Nicaragua's drug problems are far less worse compared to surrounding countries due to implementing rehabilitation and mentoring programs to prevent children and teens from joining gangs via ex-gang members and other diversion techniques that tough on crime types would dismiss for being too weak on criminals. reforms by the FSLN, the political party the United States funded a brutal war that killed thousands to overthrow. hell, the economist said this about their police reforms: quote:Nicaragua’s police force is in danger of giving socialism a good name. The country is one of the poorest in the hemisphere. Yet its annual murder rate, 11 per 100,000 people, is among the lowest in Latin America and eight times lower than in neighbouring Honduras. nicaragua is one of the worst examples of positive american influence also sorry for derailing the Philippines thread
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 11:28 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:
How is this in anyway news. "If you've done $BadThing then you're no longer part of human society and its protections, everyone else is free to hunt you down and kill you" is the obvious argument underlying "hey everyone go kill
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 11:33 |
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It keeps being mentioned as some other good Duterte is doing, so what's the deal with Manila's traffic?
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 15:25 |
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Manila's traffic is legendarily bad*, and Duterte ran on a platform promising that he'll fix it, by God. There's deliberations in the Senate to give the President emergency powers to solve the traffic situation. I don't really know what that means. * that's not really a scientific study of traffic, but it gets the point across.
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 15:45 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Manila's traffic is legendarily bad*, and Duterte ran on a platform promising that he'll fix it, by God. I suspect it has something to do with bulldozers and blackmail/bribery.
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 16:10 |
So after Obama's speech at the ASEAN Summit talking about human rights, Duterte decided to not follow his prepared speech and instead started a rant about US military killing Filipinos during the Philippine American war during the late 1800s and early 1900s, where he showed photographs of Filipinos who were killed by American soldiers. http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/08/16/duterte-shocks-summit-meeting-with-tirade-vs-us quote:Setting aside a prepared speech, Duterte spoke for more than five minutes about human rights and his campaign against drugs during the East Asian Summit in the Laotian capital of Vientiane, according to one Indonesian diplomat at the meeting.
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 21:28 |
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Yep - totally the same thing: undeniable wrongs from 100 years ago that were implemented and perpetrated by people long dead and that would require a time-machine to fix, versus a policy implemented by you yourself, within the last year, that is still in effect, and which could be rescinded by you if you simply gave the word. Here's what's actually the same thing: Filipinos are the victims in both cases.
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# ? Sep 8, 2016 21:58 |
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Hey thread, is there a doctor I can see who specializes in aneurysms caused by reading my Facebook feed? Almost posted this to the email forwards thread but since these are all postings by public figures I figured this was a better place:Perfecto Yasay posted:I choose not to be bothered by expletives uttered by president Duterte to explain that human rights refers to the fundamental rights of a desperate and oppressed people victimized by ruthless offenders and violators of the law. The issue of human rights must be addressed from the viewpoint of our urgent needs, aspirations and national history and not through the international norms created and arbitrarily imposed by former colonizers that now claim civility and superiority resulting from vulgar behavior and a dismal record in respecting human rights, dignity and equality. classic "and you are lynching negroes" response Some of this next one may seem sensible on the surface but just to be clear, this is coming because duterte supporters don't like that the media emphasized his potty mouth instead of talking about all the "good" he's done, so pardon me if i don't think they have the best interests of "the republic" at heart by saying we should regulate the media: Antonio Contreras posted:TIME TO REGULATE THE MEDIA AS A PROFESSION Senator Dick Gordon posted:You can’t have your cake and eat it too. We all don’t like the killings. The President too. Yet, we also want to fix our drug problem in the quickest and most effective way possible. In the current circumstances we are in, when drug lords are already in jail yet still powerfully giving orders in the outside world, and not a cent of their belongings in the possession of government - all the strides the president has made will soon go to waste. [Whatever victories he has in the war on drugs, it will be for nothing because even if addicts and pushers go away, others will take their place and we'll keep going in circles because we haven't fixed the root of the problem and the true culprits] As it is, talk is rife regarding the culprits of the unexplained killings -drug lords, police, even government officials wanting to disassociate themselves from those who can point them out. We are even now hearing that the drug lords could have paid Abu Sayyaf to bomb Davao City. THE FACT IS THE GRIP OF DRUGS IN THIS COUNTRY IS SO TIGHT AND HARD THAT IT EVEN ESCAPES DEATH. This is his defense of his bill proposing to give the president emergency powers, including suspension of writ of habeas corpus. Logic is essentially: if you hate extrajudicial killing so much, why don't you support my idea? it would allow the police to arrest people without a warrant so there wouldn't be as much violence. but don't worry because it will have restraints!
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:04 |
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So if imprisoned drug lords are still operating their empires, is Duterte proposing to summarily execute them, or do they still get some due process action because they were lucky enough to be arrested?
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:17 |
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ihatepants posted:So after Obama's speech at the ASEAN Summit talking about human rights, Duterte decided to not follow his prepared speech and instead started a rant about US military killing Filipinos during the Philippine American war during the late 1800s and early 1900s, where he showed photographs of Filipinos who were killed by American soldiers. Between this and the whole cancelled meeting thing, I'm excited to read news coming out of the Philippines for the next six years.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:31 |
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Argue posted:This is his defense of his bill proposing to give the president emergency powers, including suspension of writ of habeas corpus. I was afraid of that. The 1987 Constitution has a bunch of checks and balances against Martial Law, but that poo poo don't work if Congress is packed with sycophants that agree with the President.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:36 |
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i liked dick whyyy
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:43 |
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Also I like how someone with the gall to try giving Marcos a heroes' burial wants to talk to Obama about historical crimes.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 03:43 |
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Duterte veers off speech, launches tirade on US killings in front of Obamaquote:In what attendees described as a "fiery address," President Rodrigo Duterte veered off his prepared speech on Thursday at a meeting of the 18-nation East Asia group including United States President Barack Obama to launch a tirade on US military killings in the Philippines. No Duterte-Obama handshake at East Asia Summit quote:MANILA – U.S. President Barack Obama did not shake hands with President Rodrigo Duterte during the East Asia Summit in Laos, a source present at the event confirmed.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 06:07 |
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I have no doubts that some innocent people have been caught up in this. I mean, from what it sounds like, you can probably find someone you don't like, murder them, and simply say they were a drug pusher and get away with it.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 06:58 |
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blackguy32 posted:I have no doubts that some innocent people have been caught up in this. I mean, from what it sounds like, you can probably find someone you don't like, murder them, and simply say they were a drug pusher and get away with it. There was an incident last month where a pair of men were riding on a motorcycle, when two police officers passed them. The men panicked, drew guns and engaged in a shoot-out with the police. They both died in the shoot-out, and when their belongings were inspected, they found a sketch of a woman, a map to a specific house, and a piece of cardboard with "I AM A DRUG PUSHER" written on it. So while that particular "hit" was averted, I have no doubt that murders like these have been successfully pulled off before.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 07:13 |
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I'm trying to be wary of some of these articles because to some extent I do agree that our media is garbage--IIRC Obama himself said that the two of them had shaken hands--and I don't think we need to compound the fuel the pro-Duterte camp is using by getting suckered into linking these around. Duterte is doing a magnificent job of making himself and the Philippines look bad to other countries without the journalists who are trying to get clicks.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 08:32 |
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President Duterte met with members of the Filipino community in Indonesia, where he gave a speech, and he went on a tirade, again.quote:MANILA - (UPDATED) In a meeting with the Filipino community during a visit to Indonesia on Friday, President Rodrigo Duterte denied calling US President Barack Obama a "son of a b****". Once again, [statements underlined in brackets are my own translation] The specific insults used, were "ulol" for the State Department and "tarantado" for Ban Ki-Moon. I'm sure linguists will disagree as to how that will play out.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 08:47 |
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Wait, is he just muttering poo poo in Tagalog under his breath between phrases of English or are you just improving on the first translation?
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 10:58 |
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FAUXTON posted:Wait, is he just muttering poo poo in Tagalog under his breath between phrases of English or are you just improving on the first translation? Most people speak in straight English, or straight Filipino, especially in a formal setting. Duterte's prepared State of the Nation Address was in full English. His predecessor delivered all his SONAs in Filipino. Taglish is what happens when you're not fluent enough with either to use it 100% of the time, so you keep jumping back and forth between the two, sometimes even within the same sentence. That's what's happening here.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:13 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Most people speak in straight English, or straight Filipino, especially in a formal setting. Duterte's prepared State of the Nation Address was in full English. His predecessor delivered all his SONAs in Filipino. That sounds like a diplomatic nightmare with someone like Duterte, being as much of a colossal rear end in a top hat as he is. Just gladhanding smiling dignitaries in English while guffawing about said dignitaries' wives/daughters in Filipino right there in front of them, poo poo like that. Of course, it would be more of an observation if it didn't already cause a little dust-up in Laos.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:22 |
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So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach? I'm also really confused how suspending habeas corpus makes a justice system less corrupt and EJK-prone, but I guess my non-Filipino mind doesn't grasp such legal subtleties.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:28 |
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1stGear posted:So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach? It's like when cops on TV rant about defence attorneys and how they're loving the case up because we KNOW he's guilty. Just let the Good Guys do their job already. It's horseshit but a lot of people eat it up. A lot of people hate the idea of what they consider criminals getting a fair trial. See how influential 24 was on certain american policymakers...
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:38 |
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1stGear posted:So apparently Duterte has already pulled the "Oh, I don't want this power but the people insist!" trick. Is it a safe assumption that senator's proposed suspension of habeas corpus is the same approach? One of the big bullet points of the Duterte campaign was "results, right now, at any price". Like, Duterte's gone on record as saying that if he was elected, he would wage a "bloody" war on drugs. (this is actually a talking point that's used to deflect when debating EJKs: "He said it would be bloody, but we elected him anyway, and now it's bloody, what did you expect? Might as well ride it out", but I digress) So like, he's only been in office a month and he's already implemented a nation-wide 911, and he's already implemented a Freedom of Information Executive Order (but not a bill), and any number of other things that he's been able to direct people to do right away, as long as it falls under the purview of the Executive. Duterte gets things done, and gets things done quickly! is the order of the day. Unfortunately, not everything is under Executive control, and when it isn't, he tries to put it under Executive control, such as bypassing due process. Traffic is another thing: Duterte requested that Congress please give him emergency powers to solve the traffic problem in Manila, and that was being deliberated upon in the Senate last month. Senator Gordon's proposal to grant the President emergency powers and suspend habeas corpus is ultimately another branch of that line of thinking: it's going to take too long to win the War on Drugs with the bureaucracy in the way, so let's please lift all this red tape and let the President do it.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 11:42 |
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My dictatorship is the only good dictatorship
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 20:41 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:One of the big bullet points of the Duterte campaign was "results, right now, at any price". Like, Duterte's gone on record as saying that if he was elected, he would wage a "bloody" war on drugs. It seems obvious, but for a good picture of how he would like the presidency to operate, look at how he ran the show as mayor in Davao for 20-some-odd years. The city council was a rubber stamp body and anything he wanted to do (curfew, smoking ban, death squads) just happened because he willed it so. Now he wants to do the same thing but for the whole country, and when the Senate gets in his way/questions things like De Lima, you see his reaction. I would absolutely not bet against him declaring a revolutionary government and dissolving Congress.
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 23:08 |
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If the Catholic Church starts objecting to human rights abuses, would that carry much weight in the Philippines these days? And are the local and national Church leaders inclined to do something like that or are they tied up too closely with the political establishment favoring President Duterte?
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# ? Sep 9, 2016 23:40 |
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CronoGamer posted:It seems obvious, but for a good picture of how he would like the presidency to operate, look at how he ran the show as mayor in Davao for 20-some-odd years. The city council was a rubber stamp body and anything he wanted to do (curfew, smoking ban, death squads) just happened because he willed it so. Now he wants to do the same thing but for the whole country, and when the Senate gets in his way/questions things like De Lima, you see his reaction. Yeah, that's pretty bang-on. Duterte doesn't know how to work with things like "other departments" and "other people". What he says, goes, and he pitches a fit whenever someone says he can't have it his way. Ceiling fan posted:If the Catholic Church starts objecting to human rights abuses, would that carry much weight in the Philippines these days? And are the local and national Church leaders inclined to do something like that or are they tied up too closely with the political establishment favoring President Duterte? I couldn't say for sure. The country is still very Catholic, but at the same time the church is very establishment, and very corrupt (like most everything in the Philippines). Some of our Bishops have already spoken out against human rights abuses, but much like pointing out America's ugly side of the Filipino-American War, Duterte then points out that "the church are a bunch of kiddy-diddlers" and "the church spends all your donations on nice cars for priests" and deflates the argument. During the EDSA Revolution that overthrew Ferdinand Marcos, the Church was critical towards mobilizing people against the dictator, but we're a long ways away from that.
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# ? Sep 10, 2016 00:02 |
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How long until Duterte makes an alliance with the DPRK?
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# ? Sep 10, 2016 22:10 |
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:How long until Duterte makes an alliance with the DPRK? One positive thing about intensely nationalistic regimes is that they tend to be mutually antagonistic more often than not. They can form alliance blocs from time to time, but they don't last the way, say, NATO has.
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# ? Sep 11, 2016 01:58 |
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The big news over this weekend was the killing of a woman, the sister of a popular local celebrity, in an upscale neighborhood in Manila. There was a ubiquitous piece of cardboard placed next to her body, saying "drug pushers of celebrities, you're next!", but according to the police, she was not on any drug watchlist, although there were drugs and drug-paraphernalia found on her body. . Another story that developed was the government's Official Gazette making a I caught a screencap of the second revision: In the very first post, the last sentence read: quote:In 1986, Marcos stepped down from the presidency to avoid bloodshed during the uprising that came to be known as 'People Power. And then the final one that they left up: As the issue boiled over late into Sunday evening, their office then made the following statement: A news article on this issue. A follow-up article with regards to the link between the Official Gazette's new management under the Duterte administration, specifically that one of their employees used to be involved with the 2016 Vice Presidential campaign of Ferdinand Marcos Jr.
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# ? Sep 12, 2016 08:47 |
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And in other news, the Philippines has been trying for years to save the life of Mary Jane Veloso, sentenced to death for smuggling drugs into Indonesia. Poor people being duped into moving product is a relatively common phenomenon in the Philippines due to our incredibly high volume of OFWs (overseas foreign workers); she wasn't the first, and she won't be the last. Duterte said he'd bring up the issue in his meeting with President Widodo, which he did--but everyone kind of thought he'd speak in favor of her. Instead, he greenlit her execution with a fairly unambiguous "Please go ahead if you want to execute her." I have to hand it to him, at least he's consistent in wanting people involved in drugs dead. Now, I wonder how many nationalistic Duterte supporters were also clamoring to save her, and how they're dealing with Duterte forcibly shattering their doublethink. Edit: As I posted this, this article went up, saying he did NOT give them a go-ahead. so lol I don't even know if it's just that our media is poo poo or if this is more of their spin factory
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# ? Sep 12, 2016 09:33 |
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The official line being spouted by the administration seems to be that Duterte didn't "endorse" the execution, so much as simply allow the Indonesians to do as they wished, in accordance with their laws: https://twitter.com/tinapperez/status/775240781321805826 And reflecting upon this Sep 9 article on Duterte's meeting with Widodo, that may well have been exactly the case: quote:President Rodrigo Duterte took up convicted drug mule Mary Jane Veloso’s case during his tête-à-tête with Indonesia President Joko Widodo at the Istana Merdeka in Jakarta on Friday. EDIT: You're almost certainly going to see the administration trying to fire back at this by claiming the media is out to get them by unfairly depicting the President's remarks as a "go-signal", by splitting hairs and claiming it was "only" a "do as you will" agreement with Indonesia. And, for a bit of USPol crossover: https://twitter.com/gmanews/status/775246583860305920 gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 12, 2016 |
# ? Sep 12, 2016 09:42 |
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The Philippines: Death is Certain
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# ? Sep 12, 2016 10:06 |
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Judge Dredd's Vacation Home for Wayward Vigilantes
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# ? Sep 12, 2016 13:26 |
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I've been playing Ace Attorney 6 and I've never been so riled up by a Phoenix Wright game before; in this one he goes to a country where accused criminals are sentenced to death following a sham of a trial, people who try to defend these criminals are reviled for abetting them, and in a later case you have to solve a series of vigilante killings, and the vigilante turns out to be a government stooge Not to mention that the setting, Khurain, uses the same Filipino convention of adding an "h" to an established proper noun to make it sound more exotic
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# ? Sep 12, 2016 14:58 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 08:45 |
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Argue posted:I've been playing Ace Attorney 6 and I've never been so riled up by a Phoenix Wright game before; in this one he goes to a country where accused criminals are sentenced to death following a sham of a trial, people who try to defend these criminals are reviled for abetting them, and in a later case you have to solve a series of vigilante killings, and the vigilante turns out to be a government stooge Is that the one where you prove your defendant is innocent, but they're still going to find him guilty unless you, a defense attorney, find the actual criminal?
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# ? Sep 12, 2016 16:19 |