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Toothy McBeard
Jan 13, 2008
DOG DETECTIVE

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Toothy McBeard
Jan 13, 2008
DOG DETECTIVE

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

pillsburysoldier
Feb 11, 2008

Yo, peep that shit

https://twitter.com/TVNewsLady/status/775040742851043328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

pillsburysoldier fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Sep 12, 2016

exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.
https://twitter.com/Trillburne/status/775063247892258816

Ceiling fan
Dec 26, 2003

I really like ceilings.
Dead Man’s Band


The sitting governor of Maryland receiving chemotherapy for leukemia. He made a full recovery.

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011


Here's a picture of a statue of king Leopold II in Ostend. It's big. It's very flattering to Leopold. It shows a bunch of Congolese people thanking him for saving them from slavery. It's, as they say, "controversial"

Notice something about it, though? One of the bottom left figures is missing his left hand. That wasn't intentional.



More than ten years ago, a group called De Stoete Ostendenoare (The Naughty Ostend'ers) chopped off and stole the hand in protest against the statue and its depiction of our genocidal maniac of a former king. The chopping off of hands is of course very symbolic due to it being the punishment of choice in Leopold's Congo Free State.

Now, however, the city has finally responded to the controversy by adding the following sign:



quote:

Leopold II (equestrian statue)
Antoine (1899-1969) and Alfred Courtens (1889-1967)
Bronze, 1931

This statue by the brothers Courtens is a typical example of colonial art. It was built against the arcades that the Ostend'ers call the 'Three Yawners'. It depicts king Leopold II, who is honoured as liberator of the Congolese and as benefactor of the Ostend fisherman population. This monument was revealed by king Albert I and queen Elisabeth in 1931, at the high of the colonisation of Congo. It fits in with the Koninklijke Gaanderijen: another urbanistic realisation by Leopold II, who built Ostend into the 'Queen of Seaside Resorts'. This and other major urbanistic investments in Brussels and Ostend were mainly financed by profits from Leopold II's private colony Kongo Free State.

Not only the colonial symbolism of the statue, but also the actual colonial policy enacted has caused a lot of controversy to this day. Evidence of this is the hand of one of the freed slaves that was chopped off in 2004.

Take a look at the memorial plate for Ostend'er Aristide Doorme, to the left of the monument. The fight against slavery in Congo was used then, but also occasionally now, as justification of the colonisation.

The king has in any case made a clear and lasting mark on Ostend.

In light of all the controversy surrounding various statues of figures such as Leopold II around the world - such as the confederate statues in the US, the statues of Rhodes in South Africa and Britain - an argument that gets trotted out a lot is that the statues should stay but they should be contextualised by adding a plaque. That's the line of reasoning the city of Ostend followed, in any case. And I think this is a prime example of why it's a terrible, garbage idea. The plaque still gives a primarily positive view of king Leopold and only mentions that there's some "controversy" surrounding him - even going as far as to suggest that the fight against slavery was the actual reason for colonising Congo.

But here's the thing: there is no controversy. There shouldn't be any controversy. Leopold II's actions in Congo are well documented and indisputable. He is responsible for the death of 10 million Congolese and for the suffering of millions more. Just as there's no real controversy over the Holocaust, over Rwanda, over Pol Pot - there's no controversy here. And that's why I think plaques are a garbage concession - even if it weren't as mealy-mouthed and downright revisionist as with this statue, any plaque will always be a compromise where one half of the involved parties apparently either thinks there's enough of a controversy to give Leopold II the benefit of the doubt or they straight up think Leopold II's genocidal reign in Congo shouldn't disqualify him from being honoured by a statue. And you know what? You shouldn't compromise with those people. They don't deserve a compromise.

Tear down that statue, dump it into the sea.

Volcott
Mar 30, 2010

People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.

R. Mute posted:


Here's a picture of a statue of king Leopold II in Ostend. It's big. It's very flattering to Leopold. It shows a bunch of Congolese people thanking him for saving them from slavery. It's, as they say, "controversial"

Notice something about it, though? One of the bottom left figures is missing his left hand. That wasn't intentional.



More than ten years ago, a group called De Stoete Ostendenoare (The Naughty Ostend'ers) chopped off and stole the hand in protest against the statue and its depiction of our genocidal maniac of a former king. The chopping off of hands is of course very symbolic due to it being the punishment of choice in Leopold's Congo Free State.

Now, however, the city has finally responded to the controversy by adding the following sign:




In light of all the controversy surrounding various statues of figures such as Leopold II around the world - such as the confederate statues in the US, the statues of Rhodes in South Africa and Britain - an argument that gets trotted out a lot is that the statues should stay but they should be contextualised by adding a plaque. That's the line of reasoning the city of Ostend followed, in any case. And I think this is a prime example of why it's a terrible, garbage idea. The plaque still gives a primarily positive view of king Leopold and only mentions that there's some "controversy" surrounding him - even going as far as to suggest that the fight against slavery was the actual reason for colonising Congo.

But here's the thing: there is no controversy. There shouldn't be any controversy. Leopold II's actions in Congo are well documented and indisputable. He is responsible for the death of 10 million Congolese and for the suffering of millions more. Just as there's no real controversy over the Holocaust, over Rwanda, over Pol Pot - there's no controversy here. And that's why I think plaques are a garbage concession - even if it weren't as mealy-mouthed and downright revisionist as with this statue, any plaque will always be a compromise where one half of the involved parties apparently either thinks there's enough of a controversy to give Leopold II the benefit of the doubt or they straight up think Leopold II's genocidal reign in Congo shouldn't disqualify him from being honoured by a statue. And you know what? You shouldn't compromise with those people. They don't deserve a compromise.

Tear down that statue, dump it into the sea.

I disagree. As a compromise, I would suggest that the plaques be given a much more prominent place, equal to that of the original inscriptions if applicable, and that their messages be written by committees which include both impartial historians and the descendants of people who got their hands lopped off.

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011

Volcott posted:

As a compromise
No.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:
The compromise should be replacing the original statue of Leopold with one showing him chopping off the hands of Congolese children.



e: VVV Everything but the pyramids.

A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 12, 2016

Jokerpilled Drudge
Jan 27, 2010

by Pragmatica
that moment when oops you realize slaves built everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KUbflnMEs

Volcott
Mar 30, 2010

People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.
I mean, yeah, drastic, ideologically pure action is cool and all, but have you considered slow, incremental change instead? It's pretty nice. Doesn't spook the moderates, either.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010
https://twitter.com/danagould/status/774282064870805505

DaveWoo
Aug 14, 2004

Fun Shoe


Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Volcott posted:

I mean, yeah, drastic, ideologically pure action is cool and all, but have you considered slow, incremental change instead? It's pretty nice. Doesn't spook the moderates, either.



No one would be spooked, the left would applaud it for obvious reasons, and the right in Flanders doesn't care for a French-speaking king or (19th-century) Belgium in general. That just leaves an increasingly tiny and irrelevant old guard of pro-Belgian conservative monarchists.



The only good reason not to remove the statues is to highlight the atrocities, so in that sense I can see the logic of putting up a plaque, but it definitely needs to be a less apologetic one.

Chard
Aug 24, 2010






e: not a reply to DaveWoo

Toothy McBeard
Jan 13, 2008
DOG DETECTIVE

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Enkmar posted:

that moment when oops you realize slaves built everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KUbflnMEs

The pyramids were actually built mostly by skilled craftsmen. Presumably there were also some slaves involved but the bulk of the work was done by free men. It was of course extremely hard work but they probably ate much better than the average commoner and some of them were even buried in the pyramids. I imagine that the fact that they were working for what they considered to be a literal god might have been very

Slaves definitely built the Parthenon and America though. The Greek city states loved slavery about as much as they loved misogyny and pederasty. The Persians should really have won, it would've been much better for everyone involved.


Roman emperors Valerian and Philip the Arab surrendering to Shapur I, emperor of Persia.

Great American Hero John Brown

Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

drowningidiot
Sep 27, 2014
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7e7_1473729934

Tags: EU, 4th Reich, borders r good, fences r good, walls r good, machineguns r good, axes r good, iron curtain was good, Slavic Union now

Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

drowningidiot posted:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7e7_1473729934

Tags: EU, 4th Reich, borders r good, fences r good, walls r good, machineguns r good, axes r good, iron curtain was good, Slavic Union now

There may be a way to solve that mans misanthropy.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Crowsbeak posted:

There may be a way to solve that mans misanthropy.

az
Dec 2, 2005

20 years ago today.

thedangergroove
Nov 14, 2004
Long for karate day.
What's do Hillary and an inattentive Quiznos sandwich artist have in common?

They've both had problems with Bernie Sanders.

Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

Hey if you choose to run people over you're a evil person.

Volcott
Mar 30, 2010

People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.

Crowsbeak posted:

Hey if you choose to run people over you're a evil person.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S75Rfva9O8

odiv
Jan 12, 2003

Crowsbeak posted:

Hey if you choose to run people over you're a evil person.
https://twitter.com/Bunnynaut/status/775524435193368576

Trench_Rat
Sep 19, 2006
Doing my duty for king and coutry since 86

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Crowsbeak posted:

Hey if you choose to run people over you're a evil person.

I'm not sure you got the gist

quiggy
Aug 7, 2010

[in Russian] Oof.


Nebalebadingdong
Jun 30, 2005

i made a video game.
why not give it a try!?

Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

Rappaport posted:

I'm not sure you got the gist



A true servant of the people.




Perhapse he went to far, but when correcting the vile its like making a omelet.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Sep 15, 2016

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbyIS9EJ0UY

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

McGlockenshire
Dec 16, 2005

GOLLOCKS!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaactually
:goonsay:




Everything in the lower left quadrant is deeply depressed former logging territory that won't even fund law enforcement. The only reason anything outside of the Portland metro area is blue is due to college towns. Oregon is really not a really good state.

McGlockenshire fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Sep 15, 2016

MizPiz
May 29, 2013

by Athanatos

McGlockenshire posted:

Everything in the lower left quadrant is deeply depressed former logging territory that won't even fund law enforcement.

So you're saying they're experimenting with policeless communities. Sounds pretty lib-left to me.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO

trapped mouse
May 25, 2008

by Azathoth

For comparison, same girl with Obama.

Ritz On Toppa Ritz
Oct 14, 2006

You're not allowed to crumble unless I say so.

That fake smile is exactly like his Taco Bowl pic.

Ritz On Toppa Ritz fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Sep 16, 2016

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Naylenas
Sep 11, 2003

I was out of my head so it was out of my hands




Source.

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