|
DatonKallandor posted:A third of the Wardens DPS is also armor piercing and it's got much better arcs. In practice escorts spend a lot of time chasing - where a broadside-only ships can do 0 dps. Having less speed doesn't help broadside-only ships either (the faster rotation is nice though, but Dhows eat up an extra-ordinary amount of micro if you want to make use of that). That's hardly "way more firepower" as you put it though, it's about .25 more damage and sort of assumes you can't get them firing from both arcs ever. I don't actually like trying to chase anything with the wardens personally, if I'm against a kiting faction the wardens are slower than most kiting focused ships and most factions that kite use either lances or carriers, either of which crushes either wardens or nicassars. Against Orks, other Tau, Imperials and to a lesser extent Space marines, I don't find it true that my escorts spend a lot of time chasing and in all of those cases I much prefer having the tougher ship of the two. Against Chaos and Eldar, I actually prefer the messenger since it actually has a 188 speed, the warden and the Dhow mostly both being either tanks to soak up bombers or distractions. I think the biggest problem with front facing arcs on them is that they're so much easier to ram. Combine with their really low HP pools and you're usually seeing them all get mopped up by good players in seconds while a nicassar facing the side has a really good chance to side step.
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 16:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
The Dhow also has a 90% up time for special order with some upgrade. That's a good bonus. A braced escort is super hard to kill with macro fire.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
...Just going to point out that the Warden also has a speed of 188. There's a reason the Messenger is cheaper than the Warden, after all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:...Just going to point out that the Warden also has a speed of 188. There's a reason the Messenger is cheaper than the Warden, after all. Yeah, but I can't just buy one warden and I can buy a single messenger. I don't really like taking my Dal'Yths with the warden hooks into fights against chaos or Eldar, they both just feel like they're dead weight ships against them. All of my escorts are upgraded with detection range so I kind of need to take one of them and I can't always bring the Custodian which does use Wardens. 1 Warden for sight would be great. 3, you just use 2 to soak up ordinance. Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:That's hardly "way more firepower" as you put it though, it's about .25 more damage and sort of assumes you can't get them firing from both arcs ever. Yeah a proper Warden group is immune to any carrier or torpedo shenanigans - long lances I give you, that's a problem for everything, but carriers? Tau laugh at carriers. They should have the PD range upgrade and the PD damage upgrade - and considering they're the same speed and weapons profile they should also be accompanied by at least one messenger (especially since messengers are dirt cheap). 4 Wardens and a Messenger with PD range are a mobile near instant-death zone (and no near about if they got the +turret upgrade too) for anything that PD can shoot down. It's funny Chaos and Eldar is exactly when I take my Warden hook CLs - they just get munched by tau carriers and a messenger+warden group can chase them around, completely save from their ordnance and easily eat through their non-ram-loving asses (and the PD damage aura is just nasty against eldar). DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Yeah a proper Warden group is immune to any carrier or torpedo shenanigans - long lances I give you, that's a problem for everything, but carriers? Tau laugh at carriers. They should have the PD range upgrade and the PD damage upgrade - and considering they're the same speed and weapons profile they should also be accompanied by at least one messenger (especially since messengers are dirt cheap). 4 Wardens and a Messenger with PD range are a mobile near instant-death zone (and no near about if they got the +turret upgrade too) for anything that PD can shoot down. Might be a luck thing but my upgraded point defence turrets usually get 1 kill per 12 turrets if the bomber squad has 30% evasion chance, so that escort group would take out maybe 3 fighters and then die to the bombers, but that's pretty close to the ratio that you are meant to get firing against upgraded ordinance crews. If you're actually using the Tau carriers, that's a completely different story, but they get outpaced by the escorts, so if you're within the 3K fighter range of your escorts you may as well just be chasing with cruisers. Also, frankly if you're getting into 3K range and staying there easily against Eldar I feel very much that you're against really, really poor quality Eldar, even their battleship badly out manuevers Tau escorts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
The thing is that Tau bombers are so loving ridiculous you force eldar to engage your cruisers. That limits their mobility enough for your escorts to get in. Not within 3k consistently, but they don't have to, since they've got more than 3k range on their guns. When using a Tau escort group, I don't have it stick to the capital ships that close - they're got enough firepower and PD coverage to operate on their own, especially since the Tau carriers are a threat you simply can't ignore to focus on the escorts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:The thing is that Tau bombers are so loving ridiculous you force eldar to engage your cruisers. That limits their mobility enough for your escorts to get in. Not within 3k consistently, but they don't have to, since they've got more than 3k range on their guns. When using a Tau escort group, I don't have it stick to the capital ships that close - they're got enough firepower and PD coverage to operate on their own, especially since the Tau carriers are a threat you simply can't ignore to focus on the escorts. I guess Eldar are so nerfed right now that that could be true but I'm still going to go out on a limb and guess that Eldar players still focus on evading line of sight with augur disruptors, stealth and boost, I don't know why I'd be worried about Tau carriers, I never worried about Chaos ones and their damage is comparable. Playing as Eldar against the Tau I'd be more worried about their water cast preventing me from winning with hit and run and their repair drones. To kill Tau you kind of need to commit to finishing ships off but a load of wardens are pretty easy to get rid of permanently. Edit: At least in ranked, Tau ordinance has no fangs at all against Eldar. Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Sep 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
I kinda wish higher level ships cost more points to deploy in some way. That way I feel like it'd be a bit more balanced for someone just starting off facing off against max level dudes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 22:20
|
|
|
DarkAvenger211 posted:I kinda wish higher level ships cost more points to deploy in some way. That way I feel like it'd be a bit more balanced for someone just starting off facing off against max level dudes. That'd be a nightmare to balance. I wish more people play ranked mode. It solved a bunch of problems with presistent mode while maintaining the same stake (ship preservation mostly).
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
DarkAvenger211 posted:I kinda wish higher level ships cost more points to deploy in some way. That way I feel like it'd be a bit more balanced for someone just starting off facing off against max level dudes. Yeah the first 3-4 levels can suck. 2v2 is still doable and im not completely saying that to get more people in 2v2. Main problem is the playerbase is rather....small. Any restrictions and you would probably find be waiting for aeons if you got a game. Just go 2v2 and you will find can still find a decent time. Once you unlock your first cruiser it gets better. Giant ships of the line are ok but easy to play against. The cost so much that you will normally outnumber them. If you are Ork or Imperial just ram that massive beast, all stop and then forward and ram again. Poor bastard will just get tossed around like a sad little rag doll. I've taken down a battleship with two fast cruisers swatting it back and forth. Torpedoes are also amazingly good at point blank versus them. Eldar just seem to flank and do a pulsar. No idea about Marines as I just see them get waxed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2016 06:25
|
|
|
Von_Doom posted:Yeah the first 3-4 levels can suck. It's been pretty good today. Leveling a new admiral and am like 8 wins to 0 losses deep. Most new admirals I make feel pretty much like this and I only rarely end up getting my head batted in by someone way higher level than me. It does suck when it happens but I feel like there's enough new or bad players out there that a new admiral account isn't totally screwed, the main problem will be that new player will probably be flailing around and have a very hard time figuring out the nuances of facing and stuff. Marines, I actually kind of want to play a video series of them, they're just so awkward that I can't easily see how they're supposed to gain any levels at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
Marines seem so great on paper but I've had a frustrating time with them. Heavy armor but low HP gets shut down pretty easily and they lack range.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2016 07:33
|
|
|
Marines are good when you're swinging double battlebarge but everything before then is really rough. Counter intuitively Marines are best done as an ambush faction - you need to get close, even more than Orks, so I lean heavily on silent running, gas clouds and torpedo spreads. Also as folks generally know, Chapter Master first, Chapter Master always.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2016 07:58
|
|
|
When I get a ram off, I generally like to high energy turn and rake the prow across him instead of all stop, before I try to ram again. Am I being dumb here?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2016 08:06
|
|
|
vorebane posted:When I get a ram off, I generally like to high energy turn and rake the prow across him instead of all stop, before I try to ram again. Am I being dumb here? Orkz dont get no fancy high energy turn. Fun thing with Navy to do is ram then stop and the enemy will be trying to get away..... let him get just a bit of distance then give them a volley of torpedoes then forward again using thrusters to position and/or ram a second time. Orkz do the same but sans the manoeuvring thrusters. For anyone else contemplating Orkz: favours. Traktor Kannon is just bloody fun. Use it to move a bastard directly in front of you and/or torps. That's the easy way. Better is to move him into mines, a buddy or a station you need to blow up. Your opponents really freak out when you make them ram into each other which sets them up nicely for... You guessed it: your ship ramming them. If you can try and get them from two sides with two different ships. Its like a mini-game unto itself. You will cause so much mayhem and confusion you will either a) win or b) have a bloody good time and give your opponent a sound thumping anyway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2016 09:51
|
|
|
Von_Doom posted:
You've kicked my rear end a few times lol.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
HOTDOG posted:You've kicked my rear end a few times lol. You got me too  - I'm fairly easy to counter. I normally have two goals: get stuck in and maximum chaos, so you can use a ship as bait and get me from the sides and back. Wish I could say its me roleplaying but thats just my natural tendency. Someone mentioned a while back about multi race campaigns like Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. That would be my ultimate wish for Battlefleet Gothic. Keep the voice acting and cartoon cinematics but let me go and bring da Waaaaaagh to the galaxy. Buy Dawn of War btw as its good fun. Collection edition was on sale a bit ago but yeah... worth it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2016 21:42
|
|
|
What do i really care about spotting the enemy and not being spotted? The ships are going to fight eventually. Is the Inquisition the worst imperial favor?
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
Knowing whether a blip on the map is an escort or a battle cruiser is a big deal given that the game is all about positioning and movement.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Some abilities can home in on targets if you can see them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Someone play ranked with me, I want to try this out.  Augh I found a match but it hung on creating a server. I'm going out to play board games instead. vorebane fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Sep 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:What do i really care about spotting the enemy and not being spotted? The ships are going to fight eventually. Is the Inquisition the worst imperial favor? Panfilo posted:Some abilities can home in on targets if you can see them. I never take it as I like Navy favour but it is a nice ability if you are partnering up with Mahreens or Tau. Set it on something and you can heatseeker torp the bugger to death from across the map. Plus, after a bit, you can guess how some factions move. Chaos and Eldar are the nicest choice to put that on. Chaos lances dont mean
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 02:40
|
|
|
Baron Porkface posted:What do i really care about spotting the enemy and not being spotted? The ships are going to fight eventually. Is the Inquisition the worst imperial favor? Depends on the ship you put it on. On a carrier, it's a really amazing thing since it gives you crew slots which slow, tough, brawly carriers benefit from. Also, it lets you use your bombers from farther away. When I got Mars or Dictator, I go Inquisition.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
If running silent is not a thing it'd be quite powerful. I think the ability should have much longer force spot duration, THEN it'd be a very nice ability to help counter stealth fleet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
pedro0930 posted:If running silent is not a thing it'd be quite powerful. I think the ability should have much longer force spot duration, THEN it'd be a very nice ability to help counter stealth fleet. It's less for countering a stealth fleet, although if you are against one, more tools to force them to use stealth to open up a 15.6 second window is nice. It's more if I want to be a stealthy Imperial carrier long range fleet that puts out bombers, torpedoes and nova shots from extreme ranges. Forcing a non-stealth navy to use run silent is a great way to avoid them all running in with lock on target. Mind you 90% of the time I don't run carriers with the Imperials but still, when I do run Imperial carriers that's how I equip them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2016 23:17
|
|
|
Finally got back to this over the weekend with a buddy and had a lot of satisfying fights as double Space Marines. No longer felt like I was just being swept under the carpet by level 8 fully unlocked murder fleets, so I don't know what changed but something did. Hardly saw any Orks though, which was a shame, are they really dead in the water right now?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 11:22
|
|
|
Nickiepoo posted:Finally got back to this over the weekend with a buddy and had a lot of satisfying fights as double Space Marines. No longer felt like I was just being swept under the carpet by level 8 fully unlocked murder fleets, so I don't know what changed but something did. I'll be back... just doing stuff in the real life. I will be back to ram into your ships and/or make you ram into each other. Its like a party with lots of headbutting. The best kind of party.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
The essence of ranked: Pick station defence and just get a free win. If your opponent took upgraded ships, you win this, kill all his ships and he defaults the set. Play a station attack, take nothing but cheap, unupgraded ships, sack them all to kill maybe 2 upgraded enemies. Play round 3 cruiser clash with all your fully upgraded ships because the first 2 matches may as well have not even happened.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
Von_Doom posted:I'll be back... just doing stuff in the real life. I will be back to ram into your ships and/or make you ram into each other. Its like a party with lots of headbutting. The best kind of party. If you play 2v2 then I'm also always game for a ramming buddy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 12:22
|
|
|
Nickiepoo posted:If you play 2v2 then I'm also always game for a ramming buddy. Played a bit... saw brawler chaos and a imperial battleship that the captain was moving like a bloody cat. Was impressive.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2016 05:56
|
|
|
How's the community right now? It was fun as hell as a tension reliever game after CSGO, but the queues were getting annoyingly long.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2016 08:08
|
|
|
Famethrowa posted:How's the community right now? It was fun as hell as a tension reliever game after CSGO, but the queues were getting annoyingly long. It's been mostly OK for me, I get matches in ranked within a few minutes every time but I sometimes play against the same guy three or four times in a row. I think I've been playing a lot of matches against war machine or something and I played like, 3 in a row against some poor guy that made a super salty video about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2016 08:46
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:It's been mostly OK for me, I get matches in ranked within a few minutes every time but I sometimes play against the same guy three or four times in a row. I think I've been playing a lot of matches against war machine or something and I played like, 3 in a row against some poor guy that made a super salty video about it. You can't just post this and not link the video
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2016 09:59
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:I sometimes play against the same guy three or four times in a row. That's why I quit last time, facing the same 50 minute chaos cheese fight twice was awful. Are games at least faster now?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2016 10:17
|
|
|
Korgan posted:You can't just post this and not link the video Sure I can. I just did. Famethrowa posted:That's why I quit last time, facing the same 50 minute chaos cheese fight twice was awful. Are games at least faster now? No, but it shouldn't take 50 minutes to fight a chaos fleet since there's a 20 minute cap. Matches still generally take me 5-7 but they've always averaged out around there for me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
Famethrowa posted:That's why I quit last time, facing the same 50 minute chaos cheese fight twice was awful. Are games at least faster now? I haven't seen nearly so many Chaos Cheese Kiters as last time. Even the chaos boyz aren't quite as cheesy as they once were. I play Ork almost exclusively and seen a few other Greenskin fanz. The movie style homing torpedoes of marines still tick me off with Space Marines but making them hit an allied to the marine ship is another fun minigame. Plus, marines don't tank that well outside of a battlebarge with chapter master favour. There's only one Eldar player left and he's also just good and not cheesy. As a whole the player base is small but mostly just guys playing to have fun. The power gamers and cheesemongers seem to have moved on to something else. The queues have been fairly decent and the most traffic seems to be english and canadian late night. Play it and have some fun. Imperial Navy is still drat good and competitive so you could roll that to get back in. Orkz and Eldar are still good but a little more difficult to keep up with the rest. They got tricks you can learn and keep up but its not as easy as the rest at least in my opinion. edit: But I'll never abandon ma boyz! Green iz best! DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Sep 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
Yukitsu posted:Sure I can. I just did. I have been really enjoying your recent Battlefleet Gothic videos, it's a shame it is taking so long to find games. I would be playing myself but sadly all I currently have is a work laptop and awful hotel internet. Do you think that the official release of the Tau will reinvigorate the mp?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 09:38
|
|
|
Phrosphor posted:I have been really enjoying your recent Battlefleet Gothic videos, it's a shame it is taking so long to find games. I would be playing myself but sadly all I currently have is a work laptop and awful hotel internet. Do you think that the official release of the Tau will reinvigorate the mp? I do actually. I think it's actually worse now than it was when they weren't announced to some extent. I think some players are thinking "well, I'll just hold off playing this until the Tau are out." and I think a lot of people just want to play something that is probably legitimately OP which I think the Tau might be.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:30 |
|
|
Von_Doom posted:edit: But I'll never abandon ma boyz! Green iz best! Actually I'm pretty sure that the orks really are the strongest faction right now. I've never played a faction other than them that can force an opponent to capitulate after just getting within 9000 or so range.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 21:16
|
|