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It's hard to read recruiters sometimes but generally you can expect that they are only interested in closing the deal. In my experience it's normal for them to ask right away and insist on knowing your price level so they're not wasting their time on something they know is never going to work for you. It sounds like they're an external recruiter and since you already interviewed and are aware of the position's responsibilities, I'd feel comfortable giving a number at or near your max range. If they think they have to negotiate to your max to close the deal, they're going to work to get you that number or close to it. And if they're a decent recruiter, they're going to know how to negotiate without scaring the employer off. They may also try to dissuade you from a higher number because they're worried it will kill their commission. Do your own research so you are confident in what you're asking for. My gf interviewed and her recruiter thought she was being cocky when she asked for more than the original offer. But the company agreed to her counter. The Negotiation thread might have more insight for you.
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Aug 25, 2016 00:54
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That's very insightful, thank you. I'm pretty satisfied with the number I gave, and it was about 80 percent higher than the number he pitched for the lowest of the range, but knowing the position I probably could have asked for a bit more than I did. It became a case of not acting too cocky, indeed, because I really felt like I was in deep waters during the interview, although I believe I answered well on his questions. If he feels like he'll be able to negotiate it higher, I'm of course all for that. For me it was also a point of not burning the bridge right away, but maybe get to apply for another position more suitable for me later. Been awhile, so I'll re-read the negotiation thread too, thanks for the heads-up. Come to think of it; I don't believe I will get the job anyway, so for "fun"/training/curiousness I'm now wondering if I should have mentioned a fairly outrageous number, to see what his reactions would have been to that.
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Aug 25, 2016 01:38
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Yea just remember the following. 1. You urgently need a job otherwise you wouldn't use a recruiter. 2. Recruiters consider you to be like cattle. You are just a means to sell for slaughter. 3. Therefore, no reason to ever get emotionally invested into headhunters at any point. Also, don't feel compelled to be loyal to a recruiter - shop around to multiple recruitment agencies.
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Aug 25, 2016 01:58
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vyst posted:Yea just remember the following.
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Aug 25, 2016 04:31
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vyst posted:Yea just remember the following. Good points, especially 1 and 2, but I want to emphasize about 3 that this felt a little different from other recruiters I've been too, as they're "high-end headhunters". I get that it could be me that's gullible or whatnot, but it felt much more professional and thorough than any other recruiter I've talked to before, and I found it very refreshing. Not sure if you differ much between the two (headhunter/recruiter), but the thing is; I applied for the job, they called me on the basis of my application, but it's not like they have a database like other "normal" recruitment agencies. I don't feel loyal to anyone at all, I'm registered with about 47 "normal" recruitment agencies who haven't done jack poo poo for me and whom I feel have been very amateurish in many regards. This felt much more professional and like a real challenge. Anyway, I only apply for jobs myself now as no recruiter has ever gotten me a job, ever. Also, my next interview with another company will be from someone within that company, not an external recruiter, which I'm looking forward to. Interviews in general has been hell to even get invited to, so I'm happy I'm getting some at least. Thank you guys, again, for your input.
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Aug 25, 2016 11:49
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A couple points if I may, as a former agency recruiter about to go corporate. 1. That 10% thing? No. I would barely consider working a job for a 15% fee. Fees for perm placements generally run 20-25% of first year's salary, of which I get a percentage. 2. Recruiting agencies vary like any other type of business. Like every other business, we are all out to make money but we all approach it differently. In general, the bigger the agency, the more of a number you'll be. There are plenty of small/medium-ish agencies that will have recruiters who will actually take the time to get to know you and be invaluable as you move through your career. In my 5 years of agency work, there are a number of people I placed more than once in increasingly lucrative roles. 3. This money thing comes up constantly. From a recruiter's perspective, I need to know what makes sense for you and what doesn't so I don't waste all of our time. It's not much different than understanding your tolerance for a commute, or shift work. Once I build rapport with someone I always find out where they are now and a range they are looking for. Ex "Candidate A is at 80K and is only going to move for $85-90K OR he might consider a lateral move if he gets to cut his commute/learn a new technology/admin is wicked hot, etc." The more I know about your search/situation, the more I am prepared to put things in front of you that make sense for both you and my client. In my time in recruiting, I've only had a handful of people refuse to divulge their salary. I did have a policy of meeting everyone I worked with and was free to turn people down if I felt it made sense, so having that face to face relationship made it a lot easier to see that I was on their side than the results you might get just talking to someone on the phone though. Our clients may pay us, but our candidates are our "product" and mistreating your candidates' trust or not being a good advocate is the quickest way to earn a poo poo reputation. Ask around. I can only speak for technology, but in most industries there are going to be good and bad recruiters/agencies. Find a recruiter or three to align with long term and they will be a valued partner as you move through your career. Just my two cents...
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Aug 26, 2016 01:10
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Where would I find such a recruitment agency?
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Aug 26, 2016 01:40
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Goodpancakes posted:Where would I find such a recruitment agency? Referrals or just by trial and error. If you reach out to them as a candidate, find out how they treat you. Do they make you feel important and that your needs are an actual concern? Again, good candidates are what the agency is selling. If you're one, they should be treating you very well. It's also important to remember that the recruiter's job is primarily to fill their clients' needs, not to "get you a job". The good ones won't ever make you feel that way though. If you're having trouble finding a job or getting recruiters to pay attention to you, have that conversation when you get one on the phone. "Looking at my resume and hearing about my experience, is there anything that would make you hesitate to send me over to your best client?" I've spoken to plenty of people who I won't submit because I know they won't be considered or simply because I got a bad vibe from them, but in every case I would still try to give them some sort of takeaway from our interaction, whether it be resume help, career advice, interview tips, etc. Money is cool, but the feel good part of the job is helping people change their lives for the better. I think a lot more recruiters think that way than people imagine, you just have to find them.
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Aug 26, 2016 04:27
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Dark Helmut posted:Recruiter's perspective Good read. For my part, I felt like the guy I talked to was actually very considerate and respectful, and wanted to find a good match for both me and the company, so I'd definitely want to keep a good relationship with him for other positions down the line. Especially because I feel he stood out positively from the many recruiters I've met before, who didn't give the impression they cared that much. Edit: Did my second interview yesterday and have a good feeling I might get the job. 67 applicants and I was the 4th of 5 people to get interviewed. They were upfront about salary and it exceeded by a mile the lowest I'd be willing to go, so crossing fingers I'll get a call in 10 days or so. Downs Duck fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 26, 2016 12:30
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I'm approaching writing my first actual resume, and while I've gotten lots of help from people thus far, any other thoughts I could get on it before I submit it would definitely be appreciated. This is what I've got right now. I still have to put more tailored job-specific information into it, but as a general outline, does this work?
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Aug 31, 2016 16:30
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I'm approaching writing my first actual resume, and while I've gotten lots of help from people thus far, any other thoughts I could get on it before I submit it would definitely be appreciated. This is what I've got right now.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:48
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I'm approaching writing my first actual resume, and while I've gotten lots of help from people thus far, any other thoughts I could get on it before I submit it would definitely be appreciated. This is what I've got right now. There have been endless debates about the lengths of resumes, so don't take what I say as gospel, but I personally think that 6 years of experience should be able to fit on 1 page without much trouble, and will look miles better. At the very least, I don't like the look of 1.5 pages, so either 1 or 2 full pages would be better. Again, that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore it entirely, but whenever I see a resume over a page I immediately think that they better have enough awesome stuff on there to warrant it. I also agree that more specifics would be better for every point.
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Aug 31, 2016 20:26
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ObsidianBeast posted:There have been endless debates about the lengths of resumes, so don't take what I say as gospel, but I personally think that 6 years of experience should be able to fit on 1 page without much trouble, and will look miles better. At the very least, I don't like the look of 1.5 pages, so either 1 or 2 full pages would be better. Again, that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore it entirely, but whenever I see a resume over a page I immediately think that they better have enough awesome stuff on there to warrant it. I've been updating my resume, and I really think the way to go from a consultant engineering perspective is to do a one page resume highlighting information indicated on the job application. Then include as an attachment a list of all projects worked w/responsibilities on said project in a neat format. Just like how consulting firms go after RFPs. Any thoughts? I mean, I don't have six years of experience but the amount of projects, and different responsibilities I've had on different projects can't be fit on one page. I can say, "Performed 20 cost-estimates that fell within a threshold of plus or minus 10% for lowest bidder". But someone's going to wonder, "performed a cost-estimate on what types of projects? DOT? Dredging? Pump Station? Habitat Restoration?" Even within a sub-field, like water/wastewater it can be more specific "PS rehab? Pipeline? MLE plant? RO plant?" etc.
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Aug 31, 2016 23:35
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This thread has been a lot of help while working on my resume. I'm looking for an embedded software engineering position, hopefully at a company that will also appreciate my experience with electronic hardware. I would love to get some feedback: http://docdro.id/ZORbmBN
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Sep 2, 2016 20:09
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I'm currently using a single-page resume design that divides the majority of the text into two columns in order to use space effectively. (Smaller left column for things like education and skill listings, a divider, and larger right column for everything else.) Is this a good idea or a bad idea? I've noticed it doesn't sometimes play well with any of the automated systems which take applications and I've only been given the option to unfuck the document reader, but I'm unsure of if or how much it is has been hurting my chances or not.
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Sep 3, 2016 05:36
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School Nickname posted:Apologies if this question has been asked/answered before In your head, rephrase the question as "Will you release a bad product to meet an arbitrary deadline or will you take the time to do the right thing even though it makes some people unhappy to have to wait?" and answer accordingly. The intent of the question is to determine whether will you stand up against perceived authority to do the right thing.
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Sep 3, 2016 12:44
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Report of key items first then move onto major trends next I guess?
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taqueso posted:This thread has been a lot of help while working on my resume. I'm looking for an embedded software engineering position, hopefully at a company that will also appreciate my experience with electronic hardware. I would love to get some feedback: http://docdro.id/ZORbmBN Too many words, too many pages. Your content looks awesome, and as someone who works doing exactly what you want to do you seem like a great hire, but it needs to be easier to find out the details. Id recommend you pick out the highlights and bullet point them.
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Sep 3, 2016 16:02
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Morroque posted:I'm currently using a single-page resume design that divides the majority of the text into two columns in order to use space effectively. (Smaller left column for things like education and skill listings, a divider, and larger right column for everything else.) Is this a good idea or a bad idea? I've noticed it doesn't sometimes play well with any of the automated systems which take applications and I've only been given the option to unfuck the document reader, but I'm unsure of if or how much it is has been hurting my chances or not. It's a great idea if it looks clean. it won't parse for poo poo in the automatic resume filler application sites. So basically make two versions. One that's taleo friendly you can use to upload initially where it doesn't matter how it looks just that it parses easily, then the second to upload later. Otherwise you'll be unfucking it every time which gets tedious
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Sep 3, 2016 16:37
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Quandary posted:Too many words, too many pages. Your content looks awesome, and as someone who works doing exactly what you want to do you seem like a great hire, but it needs to be easier to find out the details. Id recommend you pick out the highlights and bullet point them. Thank you for taking a look. Would you give an example of what you think a good highlight would look like? Also I would appreciate input on lowlights I should remove. I edited and hacked and slashed to get to 2 pages, I probably just need to step back and go in fresh with the goal of 1 page. Do I need to make the skills area just a list of buzzwords? I'm to the point where it has few enough egregious spelling errors that people I've asked to look at it in person, even people who have interviewed and hired many people, just say 'it looks nice, I don't see anything wrong' but I don't get any concrete feedback. I suppose that means it is too much and they are just 'glazing over'. e: Turns out shrinking it to 1 page was easier than getting to 2. Could use more work still but I think 1 page is going to work out. http://docdro.id/PiqbxCn taqueso fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 3, 2016 |
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Sep 3, 2016 17:07
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I've been headhunted, but I don't think they know that I was terminated at my last job. I REALLY loving want this job that the recruiter is talking about though, and so far impressions on my resume and some Linux questionnaire they made me do have been extremely positive. How do I not gently caress this up when it comes to them asking me why I don't work for my previous employer? They said they wouldn't say any bad poo poo about me if called but I don't know.
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Sep 3, 2016 22:01
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signalnoise posted:I've been headhunted, but I don't think they know that I was terminated at my last job. I REALLY loving want this job that the recruiter is talking about though, and so far impressions on my resume and some Linux questionnaire they made me do have been extremely positive. How do I not gently caress this up when it comes to them asking me why I don't work for my previous employer? They said they wouldn't say any bad poo poo about me if called but I don't know. Most workplaces will only confirm dates of employment. To comment on you can make them liable if you do not receive a job due to their remarks. Why, out of curiosity, were you fired?
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Sep 3, 2016 22:42
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Bitchkrieg posted:Most workplaces will only confirm dates of employment. To comment on you can make them liable if you do not receive a job due to their remarks. I really didn't fit the company, and the position I was in was boring as gently caress so my work suffered as well. I was vocal about my disagreement with how they tracked metrics in my department also. They justified HR budget for support techs based on a time tracking system that you had to micromanage and lie on to get to 8 hours tracked per day, and you had to hit that number without going too far over it, but they didn't provide any way for you to tell how much time you'd tracked so far that day. In short it was not a driver or indicator of anything other than how well the techs were able to keep track of their lying. It was incredibly stressful and I guess they just took the opportunity to peace me out because I was becoming toxic. Lesson learned shut up and do the job I guess.
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Sep 4, 2016 03:42
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How normal is it for an employer to contact you by text message for an interview instead of by e-mail or a call?
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Sep 6, 2016 01:00
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Azuth0667 posted:How normal is it for an employer to contact you by text message for an interview instead of by e-mail or a call? Not uncommon.
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Sep 6, 2016 01:06
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taqueso posted:Thank you for taking a look. Would you give an example of what you think a good highlight would look like? Also I would appreciate input on lowlights I should remove. I edited and hacked and slashed to get to 2 pages, I probably just need to step back and go in fresh with the goal of 1 page. Do I need to make the skills area just a list of buzzwords? I'm not an expert, but I'm not sure I'd recommend changing much. Cutting it down to one page helps, theres still a lot there but it feels like just a strong skillset now. The one thing I'd recommend is specifics wherever possible in the previous experience. I know it's easier said then done, but it really does help it feel less nebulous and more realistic. How many projects did you work on? How muxh revenue did you bring in? Did you manage any people? That sort of stuff helps a lot - a good example of this is your list of customers in your most recent position. The extra few details make it clear that your company was serious and not some fake nebulous thing. One other thing not totally resume related, but that you will get asked is why you're leaving the company you owned. I have no idea what the reason is, but just be ready with a good answer.
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Sep 6, 2016 04:43
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Quandary posted:The one thing I'd recommend is specifics wherever possible in the previous experience. I know it's easier said then done, but it really does help it feel less nebulous and more realistic. How many projects did you work on? How muxh revenue did you bring in? Did you manage any people? That sort of stuff helps a lot - a good example of this is your list of customers in your most recent position. The extra few details make it clear that your company was serious and not some fake nebulous thing. Quandary posted:One other thing not totally resume related, but that you will get asked is why you're leaving the company you owned. I have no idea what the reason is, but just be ready with a good answer. I've been assuming that will be asked by everyone. My dad suffered a head injury in a dirt-biking accident and I took over the family business after it happened. He was impaired enough he couldn't run the business or do engineering work. He is doing good now, but he doesn't have any interest in electronics these days. I had previously turned down the offer to take the company over when my dad was shopping it around a year earlier, but I changed my mind when he got hurt. I moved home and started running the company. I learned a ton about business and electronics, but I'm starting to feel like I'm stuck here. I'm getting older and I feel like I have to move on. I don't want to be doing this when I'm 50. I want to switch to a different industry, something more modern; something sexier than a box hidden inside a box in a factory. I want to work with smart peers that I can learn from and vice-versa. I want to work somewhere big enough to have janitors, HR, marketing, and accountants so I can can concentrate on making cool things. Obviously the business isn't making me craploads of money, but it pays 4 salaries plus excellent benefits. My production manager is willing to buy the company and knows I'm looking around for a new job. She can't create new designs, but she can do pretty much everything else. I think selling it is important, I don't want to be distracted worrying about if the company is making money or not. That's the story, sound OK?
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Sep 7, 2016 01:59
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signalnoise posted:I really didn't fit the company, and the position I was in was boring as gently caress so my work suffered as well. I was vocal about my disagreement with how they tracked metrics in my department also. They justified HR budget for support techs based on a time tracking system that you had to micromanage and lie on to get to 8 hours tracked per day, and you had to hit that number without going too far over it, but they didn't provide any way for you to tell how much time you'd tracked so far that day. In short it was not a driver or indicator of anything other than how well the techs were able to keep track of their lying. It was incredibly stressful and I guess they just took the opportunity to peace me out because I was becoming toxic. You could say that their culture / performance measurement didn't match up with what you work best in. Find a way to explain the situation with a positive spin such as "I am numbers driven and love when KPIs are more transparent." (But only say that if it's true - was just the first example that popped into my head). Try not to have the conversation dwell on why you left the last company, and instead transition the conversation to what type culture / performance measurement the new employer has & how you would thrive in it. Hopefully this goes without saying, but don't ever say that you lied on your performance metrics or describe yourself as toxic.
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Sep 8, 2016 03:04
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cougar cub posted:You could say that their culture / performance measurement didn't match up with what you work best in. Find a way to explain the situation with a positive spin such as "I am numbers driven and love when KPIs are more transparent." (But only say that if it's true - was just the first example that popped into my head). Yes it goes without saying. Thanks for this
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Sep 8, 2016 10:52
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I'm looking for jobs in management accounting, specifically Controller / Assistant Controller / higher level finance or accounting analyst positions. I created a resume with advice from this thread using a template I got from a resume writing place before I got a big promotion at my job. I've uploaded my resume here for your viewing pleasure. I designed my resume around showing what I accomplished, not what my job description was. My father in law, a recently retired VP of Sales for a small to mid size company, disagrees with this approach and believes that I should expand all of the skills on the bottom of my resume into individual line items and very clearly spell out the tasks and responsibilities of my two most recent positions. My questions are: 1) Does the phrasing of my current resume make sense/flow nicely/look impressive? 2) Should I keep my resume based solely on accomplishments with tasks/responsibilities at the bottom, should I expand a little more on tasks/responsibilities, or should I go a full 2 pages and flesh everything on the bottom out? 3) Is this template any good or should I trash it for something simpler? I also have a question about listing my degree. My actual degree is in mathematics with an actuarial science emphasis. I want to play up the fact that my degree is based on financial mathematics, as many of the positions I'll be applying to list "accounting or finance degree required", but I'm worried that most people reading my resume won't know what actuarial science is and won't bother googling it. Since everything required for my emphasis was financial mathematics / theory of interest / statistics classes, is it okay to list my degree as I have on my resume (Mathematics, Financial Focus)? Is this just another case of "who gives a poo poo?" EDIT: Updated resume with minor changes A GIANT PARSNIP fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 04:18
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I uploaded a new version with some minor changes. Could someone please take a look at it and give me some advice?
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Sep 13, 2016 00:34
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Modern day interviews perplex me I've done 3 phone interviews, a skype/web conference interview, and the company is flying me up to visit their campus and tour the city on their dime. I do have a one hour interview with someone I've already interviewed with a couple of times already, but is it safe to say I'll probably be seeing an offer soon assuming I don't poo poo on the conference room table and run around naked?
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Sep 13, 2016 00:53
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vyst posted:Modern day interviews perplex me Still put your best foot forward. Same thing happened to me and the other guy also interviewing ended up getting it.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:19
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Chaotic Flame posted:Still put your best foot forward. Same thing happened to me and the other guy also interviewing ended up getting it. Roger thanks.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:21
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Chaotic Flame posted:Still put your best foot forward. Same thing happened to me and the other guy also interviewing ended up getting it. The only time it's safe to assume you got the job is when you've received a formal offer letter. I won't even give notice at a job on just a verbal offer.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:47
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Now I'm all depressed. Hahaha
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Sep 13, 2016 13:55
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I looked around this subforum, thread and SA-Mart but I can't seem to find "Resume to Interviews" anywhere. Does that guy (Jason I believe) still offer that service? He helped me with a resume when I was transferring colleges a few years ago and now my roommate needs some help landing a possible internship. I know a few basics about resume formatting but I think his would greatly benefit from professional attention.
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Sep 14, 2016 17:22
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TheFrailNinja posted:I looked around this subforum, thread and SA-Mart but I can't seem to find "Resume to Interviews" anywhere. Does that guy (Jason I believe) still offer that service? He helped me with a resume when I was transferring colleges a few years ago and now my roommate needs some help landing a possible internship. I know a few basics about resume formatting but I think his would greatly benefit from professional attention. No, he does not. My timeline may be wrong but about a year or so ago he sold the company/SA account to someone else. I didn't find this out until after I had purchased service from the company in January, and I think the SA account was banned earlier this year.
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Sep 14, 2016 17:40
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What a bummerdrag. Are there any other goon-approved, reputable CV/resume formatting services?
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Sep 14, 2016 17:55
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I had a 2nd interview today with a company, but I don't have the guys e-mail who I interviewed with, as it's all been organized through HR. I want to send a follow up thank you note, so would it be okay to ask HR to pass it along to the guy, or just tell HR that "hey thanks for the interview with so and so, etc"?
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Sep 14, 2016 21:42
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I'm antsy and dying to know if I got the job. When/how often is it ok to contact a prospective employer following an interview? I had an interview last week Tuesday and followed up with the standard thank you email the next day. I talked with the interviewer on the phone a week later the following Monday, she said they would hopefully be making a decision early this week. It's probably a bad idea to call or email again this week right?
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Sep 14, 2016 21:58
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