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Folt The Bolt posted:He was essentially misunderstanding Rayfa being, for lack of a better word, tsundere about him being her big brother. I was really disappointed they mentioned nothing at all about Apollo being, as far as Dhurke would've been concerned, her brother. Dhurke knew that she existed, right? It was disappointing nothing came of that.
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Sep 14, 2016 19:57
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ilifinicus posted:6-4 did feel like the progression from cases 1 through 3 just hit a wall in a dumpster truck fire. At least Simon saves it somewhat, but it really should have just been a DLC case. So you'd rather we had to pay extra for it rather than just have it be in the base game? 
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Sep 14, 2016 19:59
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This game is basically Saving Private Justice
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Sep 14, 2016 19:59
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NRVNQSR posted:It might not be as good as the Orca classic, but (6-4)the characters were generally likeable, and crucially it didn't overstay its welcome. Not having to slog through an investigation phase immediately puts it pretty high up compared to most filler cases. A poo poo case being short so you don't have to deal with its shittiness outside of the courtroom is a pretty poor defense of it. The case was an excuse to have Simon be awesome, and come up with more gimmicks for Athena to use her mood matrix on. I don't know if the Japanese-ness of the case affected my enjoyment, but I think it's more the disconnect I felt with the cast. Athena is literally thrown into the case on trial day with no knowledge of anyone involved. I get that they did it so they could have a case for Athena to solve on her own with limited info (by which I mean save time and money by making a short trial only case). I actually think the case would have benifited greatly from having investigation portions, so we, as the player, could actually have a better connection to the characters involved and actually given context to how they all relate to each other. The clown chick was a weak villain because we didn't know anything about her outside of court. The whole emotional crux of the case is the relationships between these characters and their master, and that couldn't be effectively conveyed only in court, so it falls flatter than the ballon girl's chest.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:07
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TheKingofSprings posted:I was really disappointed they mentioned nothing at all about Apollo being, as far as Dhurke would've been concerned, her brother. Dhurke knew that she existed, right? It was disappointing nothing came of that. (Case 5 major spoilers)It's not surprising that she's closer to Nahyuta. "A person adopted by her biological father, neither of whom she's ever met or knows exist" is a pretty distant relation compared to "brother she'd grown up thinking was a cousin". Nahyuta was still a member of the royal family even if he was disliked, so between that and court she would probably have seen a lot of him over the years. mabels big day posted:A poo poo case being short so you don't have to deal with its shittiness outside of the courtroom is a pretty poor defense of it. You misunderstand; (Case 4 minor spoilers)I mean that it doesn't waste time with what I would consider the bad bits, and only has what I would consider the good bits. I would have no objections to it being twice as long if it maintained the same level of quality throughout, but generally filler cases do not do that.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:11
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^ (not quoting to avoid case 5 spoilers) I guess that's where we disagree, because I didn't think it was good in the first place 
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Sep 14, 2016 20:13
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NRVNQSR posted:(Case 5 major spoilers)It's not surprising that she's closer to Nahyuta. "A person adopted by her biological father, neither of whom she's ever met or knows exist" is a pretty distant relation compared to "brother she'd grown up thinking was a cousin". Nahyuta was still a member of the royal family even if he was disliked, so between that and court she would probably have seen a lot of him over the years. I mean sure, but she says NOTHING at all about it.  Poor Apollo has all this family that just doesn't want him around at all.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:16
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I'll make this recommendation again but if you like AA's mysteries you should try the young kindaichi case files on crunchyroll. i've only seen the first season but the mysteries are similar in that there's a 'trick' that flips everyone's assumptions about the case upsidedown. also each mystery is 4-5 episodes long so unlike Case Closed or other detective anime, they have an actual opportunity to introduce and develop all the players in the mystery before heads start rolling (there are a couple of cases that have as many as 12-13 players involved). one of the reasons i couldnt get into case closed is that most mysteries were only 2 episodes long and it's also 700 episodes in, so the people in the mysteries are generic as gently caress the only flaws are, the first story is more of a 'thriller movie' kind of plot to start off, and the main character is kind of an rear end in a top hat. actually kindaichi is kind of like if apollo justice was a prick instead of just a doofus
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Sep 14, 2016 20:19
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Regy Rusty posted:So you'd rather we had to pay extra for it rather than just have it be in the base game?
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Sep 14, 2016 20:30
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ilifinicus posted:No, I'd rather they put in a real, relevant case there and then make the that junk be DLC See I don't agree that it's junk, but even if I did, I'd much rather DLC cases be huge and insanely good like the Orca case. That seems like such a weird way of looking at it to me
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Sep 14, 2016 20:33
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i cannot wait to defend the Butz in just a couple of weeks
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Sep 14, 2016 20:53
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NRVNQSR posted:It might not be as good as the Orca classic, but (6-4)the characters were generally likeable, and crucially it didn't overstay its welcome. Not having to slog through an investigation phase immediately puts it pretty high up compared to most filler cases. Episode 4 The characters were really hateable. The client makes your life unnecessarily difficult because he can't testify, Uendo is four lame stereotypes rolled into one, and I also hate clowns because they give me PTSD flashbacks to the second game. It didn't help that, every few minutes, Simon has to save your rear end, stopping the trial dead in its tracks. There might as well have been a big flashing neon sign over the culprit's head, too. Athena is bad at her job. Still, I didn't actually hate it. Simon telling Nahyuta to shut up was nice. The rest was just boring, though, and I wanted it to be over. Quest For Glory II posted:i cannot wait to defend the Butz in just a couple of weeks Yes, bring on the Butz.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:04
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Quest For Glory II posted:i cannot wait to defend the Butz in just a couple of weeks 
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Sep 14, 2016 21:09
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And More posted:Episode 4 The characters were really hateable. The client makes your life unnecessarily difficult because he can't testify, Uendo is four lame stereotypes rolled into one, and I also hate clowns because they give me PTSD flashbacks to the second game. It didn't help that, every few minutes, Simon has to save your rear end, stopping the trial dead in its tracks. There might as well have been a big flashing neon sign over the culprit's head, too. Athena is bad at her job. I legitimately can't figure out how "Athena is bad at her job" comes from this and doesn't apply to literally every lawyer in the franchise. Phoenix Wright had to be saved by his dead mentor coming back from the afterlife on multiple occasions.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:12
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case 5 trial day 1: oh my god sarge is such a poor baby
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Sep 14, 2016 21:13
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Just started case 5 seriously this wasted no time and I already can't handle this. i thought maybe they'd tiptoe around the issue but nope, this is what I'm greeted to right off the bat. The man is right here, in the office, in front of Charley.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:13
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ImpAtom posted:I legitimately can't figure out how "Athena is bad at her job" comes from this and doesn't apply to literally every lawyer in the franchise. Phoenix Wright had to be saved by his dead mentor coming back from the afterlife on multiple occasions. it's annoying because Athena seems to be characterized solely by the fact that she's young and inexperienced. Phoenix obviously was inexperienced at a point but by the third game you actually got the feeling that he was competent and experienced. I'm not saying Athena is supposed to be super competent, but I am saying that her inexperience is an obnoxiously big part of her character. Have I mentioned that Athena sucks?
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Sep 14, 2016 21:18
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I liked case 4 and Simon is the best assistant ever it's a much needed break of levity after two epic cases, case 3 being pretty loving heavy in general also Athena owns and all her animations are my favorite The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 21:18
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mabels big day posted:it's annoying because Athena seems to be characterized solely by the fact that she's young and inexperienced. Phoenix obviously was inexperienced at a point but by the third game you actually got the feeling that he was competent and experienced. I'm not saying Athena is supposed to be super competent, but I am saying that her inexperience is an obnoxiously big part of her character. Have I mentioned that Athena sucks? "Phoenix was young and inexperienced but by the third game in the trilogy he was the sole protagonist of you got the idea he was competent, Athena sucks because she hasn't done all of Phoenix's plot development in 1/10th the time" is a weird-rear end statement. Athena also isn't absolutely just characterized by being inexperienced. Her big thing is Emotions both as a positive and negative. It is why she has the case revolving around a ton of emotional stuff and why her thing is the mood matrix. I think she works best with Apollo but that is because she has someone to play off of (and likewise Apollo benefits from having her to bounce off of.) She suffers in her solo case because she's got Blackwell who isn't really a viable Assistant in that regards but she still pulls off the usual turnabout in a way only she could. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 21:20
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Okay, I need some help. I'm on Case 5, Trial Day 1: Sarge's Mood Matrix segment. I have a vague idea of why Dr. Buff was burning the orb, but I have no idea how I'm supposed to progress here.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:25
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Case 4 is good because it's the only place Athena's 2016 Objection theme plays and it's like the best song in the game. Also Case 5 Trial 1 I am cross-examining a drone.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:27
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Just wanna say, gently caress you camel brand for being an obnoxious and unintuitive puzzle piece thanks.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:29
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alcharagia posted:Okay, I need some help.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:30
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I'm stumped on Case 5 Trial 1. It's Sarge's first testimony about Buff meeting Datz Boi
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Sep 14, 2016 21:48
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I assume you're being asked to present evidence on a statement? You're trying to demonstrate that a timing assumption Sarge is making is wrong, based on what you know about Archie's actions. Thank you. As a reward I got to see the court go silent at my opponent's assertion for the first time, like, ever. i'm satisfied on a deep, spiritual level
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Sep 14, 2016 21:48
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Okay, finished Case 2. Only one trial day, with no midpoint save seems weird and disappointing but that trial was insanely long relatively speaking. There were so many moments I was expecting it to get called for further investigation but it just... kept going. Retinz as Reus had some fantastic animations (using his sweater as a cape to hide behind is goddamn inspired), and that breakdown was a work of art. His theme was great, the sudden return of the thought route after passing by several more obvious spots for it was a genuine nice surprise because I was thinking they'd ditched it for whatever reason. In a way, Reus might in fact be the most successful and also most evil culprit in the entire series to date because of how flawless everything went and it would've been completely perfect if it wasn't for Bonny's mistake. Gotta feel bad for the victim as well. Manov Mistree wasn't even involved with the case history at all save for being the unlucky kid he decided had to die to get revenge on the Gramaryes for being reasonable people for the first and last time ever... and the only reason he drew that short straw was because he liked Reus in the first place. Also I'm sure it goes without saying but Bonny and Betty own and I want to see them again in the future. It's almost certainly never going to happen though because good characters get ignored. Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 21:48
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Dragonatrix posted:Okay, finished Case 2. Most successful is probably still (AAI2 spoilers) the mastermind in that one, because you're only tracking him down after they've already achieved everything they set out to do in the first place, using you as a puppet to do half of it. The villain of 6-2 though is a real loving solid contender for the latter point though, considering the psychotic zeal with which he tried to get a 17 year old who he'd never met humiliated and executed as a gently caress you to a group that as far as he knew was entirely dead and gone. E: Man Kristoph's theme is still really good, I hope an understated villain like that shows up again someday. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 21:55
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I buckled and used Consultation. I'm lawyerin' bad.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:13
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Waffleman_ posted:I buckled and used Consultation. There's several places where I lost all penalties multiple times.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:19
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The game has felt pretty hard all around, partly because of the very long trial sections. That's mostly felt good outside of some ambiguous seances/testimonies and the loving fingerprinting
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Sep 14, 2016 22:23
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ImpAtom posted:I legitimately can't figure out how "Athena is bad at her job" comes from this and doesn't apply to literally every lawyer in the franchise. Phoenix Wright had to be saved by his dead mentor coming back from the afterlife on multiple occasions. Episode 4 Usually, Mia just gives Phoenix some vague hint so he can figure it out himself. Simon straight up solves a bunch of problems for Athena. He gets the actor to talk, and gets the prosecutor to back off when that should really be Athena's job.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:42
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And More posted:Episode 4 Usually, Mia just gives Phoenix some vague hint so he can figure it out himself. Simon straight up solves a bunch of problems for Athena. He gets the actor to talk, and gets the prosecutor to back off when that should really be Athena's job. You're seriously misremembering Mia then. She's instrumental in solving cases. Hell, she's instrumental in solving her own murder. Phoenix Wright is literally known for bluffing his way through everything until an answer appears and is frequently saved by last-minute help from outside sources. He (and Apollo for that matter) get more capable the more screentime they get but every Phoenix Wright protagonist basically gets backed into a corner and saved by other people. Hell, Phoenix loses a case with his life on the line in this very game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 22:45
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ImpAtom posted:You're seriously misremembering Mia then. She's instrumental in solving cases. Hell, she's instrumental in solving her own murder. In fact, if I remember correctly, Godot in the third game forces Phoenix to solve the final case without any help at all because Mia is constantly bailing him out when she's there. Also, in regards to Phoenix, I wouldn't mind having control of him in the next sequel. Psyche-Locks are fun! (And you generally don't do these if you're in a trial segment, much like Athena doesn't use the Mood Matrix outside of trial segments.)
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Sep 14, 2016 22:48
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Folt The Bolt posted:In fact, if I remember correctly, Godot in the third game forces Phoenix to solve the final case without any help at all because Mia is constantly bailing him out when she's there. I have to say my least favorite gimmick is Apollo's bracelet because it's so drat slow even if you find the quirk quickly. (Well, least favorite protagonist gimmick. Fingerprinting is the worst overall.)
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Sep 14, 2016 22:49
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ImpAtom posted:I have to say my least favorite gimmick is Apollo's bracelet because it's so drat slow even if you find the quirk quickly. (Well, least favorite protagonist gimmick. Fingerprinting is the worst overall.) The plaster cast mold of the foot was neat, same with scanning the paintings and getting the underlying sketches. If Ema comes back again I hope she brings more of that kind of stuff with her (and not Sahdmadhi, may he drop into the same pit they dropped Klavier into).
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Sep 14, 2016 22:53
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Apollo's bracelet sucks because it's a tedious spot the difference exercise that plays out agonizingly slowly rather than a puzzle.
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Sep 14, 2016 22:55
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Apollo's bracelet would be 3 times better if you could skip back and forth through segments like you can with Rayfa's Insight.
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Sep 14, 2016 23:14
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Zaa Boogie posted:Apollo's bracelet would be 3 times better if you could skip back and forth through segments like you can with Rayfa's Insight. While it's not exactly that, if you know for certain what part of the statement has the tick in it, you can press X to pause the action and search for the tell without having to start over.
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Sep 14, 2016 23:18
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Kay Kessler posted:While it's not exactly that, if you know for certain what part of the statement has the tick in it, you can press X to pause the action and search for the tell without having to start over. Oh, I know, but if you get past a part you have to wait for the text to slowly go and restart it. That's my main issue.
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Sep 14, 2016 23:42
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ImpAtom posted:You're seriously misremembering Mia then. She's instrumental in solving cases. Hell, she's instrumental in solving her own murder. Phoenix Wright is literally known for bluffing his way through everything until an answer appears and is frequently saved by last-minute help from outside sources. He (and Apollo for that matter) get more capable the more screentime they get but every Phoenix Wright protagonist basically gets backed into a corner and saved by other people. Hell, Phoenix loses a case with his life on the line in this very game. Phoenix fights like a mad man during his second case. Mia has to point out to him that he needs to look at the receipt, but he has to use it as evidence. She also ends up forcing White to admit his guilt, but that's after his guilt is basically proven. Athena, on the other hand, gets flustered because the prosecutor and the audience are mean to her.  Admittedly, I haven't played the original trilogy in quite a while. Maybe Mia's all like "Shut up, Franziska!", and I've just forgotten about that part.
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Sep 14, 2016 23:50
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