Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

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SkySteak: Sep 9, 2010

So I was hoping to make some more Merchant Republics for my Byzantine Empire to help roll in more dosh. I must ask though what makes a good candidate place for a Merchant Republic? I have Venice which is obvious but what qualities does a good country need to have for a mechant republic? I know it needs to be coastal but is there anything else to consider?

# ? Sep 15, 2016 01:27

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# ? May 29, 2024 20:38

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

.

Buschmaki posted:

It teaches new players that your vassals are not to be trusted and dont have your best interests in mind.

It's also really good if the player happens to be the Chancellor. My Semien game was made a lot easier by being the Chancellor during a brief expansionist phase by the Muhallabid Sultan and scored two whole Duchies out of it.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 01:58

Crow Jane: Oct 18, 2012; nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room

Just had the Dancing Plague hit Scandinavia, and was bummed it didn't make it's way over to me, I bet that event chain is amazing. DLC owns.

Sooo... despite not being pregnant when she came to my court, and me never getting the suspicious pregnancy event, my wife gave birth to an inbred child. We don't have any ancestors in common that I can see, it sucks. Unfortunately, he's my heir. His two younger brothers are a genius and a kid with the Strong trait, and obviously I'd much rather have either of them inherit. In my experience inbred characters die young, but is there any way to sort of speed the process along? I really don't want to deal with playing as him.

Bums me out killing him, though, his one trait is Gregarious :smith:

# ? Sep 15, 2016 03:39

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Quick question. If you have a high enough learning stat is it possible to gain the renowned physician trait, or act as court physician for your liege?

# ? Sep 15, 2016 04:36

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

ThomasPaine posted:

Quick question. If you have a high enough learning stat is it possible to gain the renowned physician trait, or act as court physician for your liege?

I know that it's possible for a court physician to gain the renowned physician trait by administering enough treatments, if they didn't have it before. I think it may be exclusive with other "lifestyle" traits, though (given that it uses the same icon style). I've never been appointed by my liege as a court physician but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. Bear in mind that without the trait, you can't be given the position with less than 15 learning.

If you're just trying to gain the trait, you could appoint your heir as court physician and let them gain it.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 04:50

Raserys: Aug 22, 2011; IT'S YA BOY

If you're a physician can you heal thyself

# ? Sep 15, 2016 04:54

Fall Sick and Die: Nov 22, 2003

Darkrenown posted:

That's pretty interesting, is there a name for the system?

I cant find any specific name for it, it just seem to have been the accepted system. It reached its apex in the Qing dynasty but there are offhanded comments that it existed earlier. The Thai also seemed to have used a similar system and still do today for their royal family. In the Song dynasty, which was the majority of the CK2 timeline, the major system for enfeoffment was the examination system. Maybe a form of government where only persons who have passed an examination system can be appointed as nobles, and it works entirely in terms of holding competitive examinations, learning + luck + education traits the major defining factor for success in exams. The King would appoint the dukes through exams, the dukes appoint their counts, the counts appoint their barons. At the lower levels, petty bribery and cheating would be more rampant, but at the upper levels you'd get some pretty strong personalities, ultra-effective people, but probably all ambitious or some other difficult to manage traits. I think with a new government form and a new succession system like those two, you could call it Imperial Appointment Succession and Bureaucratic government, it'd be easy to model East Asian-type systems, from loose feudalism of the Zhou dynasty to more centralized bureaucratic states.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 04:54

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

The real problem with trying to make a Chinese CKII is that the faction system doesn't work great as a replacement for the secret societies, which are honestly one of my favourite things about Chinese history but unsurprisingly there's relatively few sources out there about them~

# ? Sep 15, 2016 05:10

Demon_Corsair: Mar 22, 2004; Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

TheCIASentMe posted:

While a lot of time people are over emphasizing the importance of stabbing, (I'm guilty of this sometimes), there are other things you can do that help with the stabbing.

The people listed under the plus button in the intrigue tab aren't necessarily ALL of the people you can potentially recruit. Those are just the people in their court or in the case of a baron, their liege's court I think. It gets kinda weird when your target doesn't have anyone in their court so your results may vary.

You should also be able to recruit any direct vassals of your target's liege and these people may not show up in that list in the intrigue tab.

Holy poo poo really?

I thought that bribing any random maybe on that list was the only way to get a plot going.

So I can just browse to random vassels of my target and ask them to join my plot?

This will make taking over Scotland one county at a time from the petty king of moray not take generations!

# ? Sep 15, 2016 05:12

Fall Sick and Die: Nov 22, 2003

Deceitful Penguin posted:

The real problem with trying to make a Chinese CKII is that the faction system doesn't work great as a replacement for the secret societies, which are honestly one of my favourite things about Chinese history but unsurprisingly there's relatively few sources out there about them~

In the Bureaucratic government system, factions are secret and you don't know about them unless you do a specific spymaster action to discover them by placing a spymaster on a specific character and trying to discover if he's a member of a faction, just like a plot. Bingo bango, secret factions.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 05:14

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Fall Sick and Die posted:

In the Bureaucratic government system, factions are secret and you don't know about them unless you do a specific spymaster action to discover them by placing a spymaster on a specific character and trying to discover if he's a member of a faction, just like a plot. Bingo bango, secret factions.

Hmmm. I was thinking about how you'd try and model their purpose; factions usually have an aim, whereas many secret societies were simply associations for the furthering of their members.

I like the idea of a plot to cheat on the imperial examination system, where eventually it's almost impossible to pass without cheating~

# ? Sep 15, 2016 05:23

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Hmmm. I was thinking about how you'd try and model their purpose; factions usually have an aim, whereas many secret societies were simply associations for the furthering of their members.

I like the idea of a plot to cheat on the imperial examination system, where eventually it's almost impossible to pass without cheating~

There was a "secret societies" mod a while ago - I don't know if it's been kept up to date, but it was basically about modelling that sort of thing - people as members of a faction without a specific aim, looking to increase their own power. I think it worked cross-realm, too.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 05:30

Kulkasha: Jan 15, 2010; But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.

Is there a write-up of the features of Bureaucratic Govt anywhere online?

# ? Sep 15, 2016 06:34

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Random thought: Since the next patch is adding a rule that enables the supernatural events for AI, I feel like an extra bit should be added to the immortality event, where if someone successfully completes it, an event is sent to every other immortal that currently exists, notifying them of the new immortal and making them rivals.

After all, there can be only one.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 06:43

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Kulkasha posted:

Is there a write-up of the features of Bureaucratic Govt anywhere online?

Google around for "The Chinese Civil Service", but it's a pretty big topic, tbh

# ? Sep 15, 2016 07:07

Kulkasha: Jan 15, 2010; But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Google around for "The Chinese Civil Service", but it's a pretty big topic, tbh

Sorry, I meant the specific govt form in CK2, not in general. The wiki is frustratingly sparse on the government forms.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 07:30

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Kulkasha posted:

Sorry, I meant the specific govt form in CK2, not in general. The wiki is frustratingly sparse on the government forms.

You mean the one from after the end? It's a variant of the Byzantine system, in that you can revoke duchies without reason and have vice-royalties up to the duchy level enabled from the start but need proper reasons to imprison people?

Just off of memory here; if you just mean the base Byzantine one, then ignore that about reasons for imprisonment I think. About the only other mechanic they have got going on is the Born in the Purple/despot dealio, where basically your kids that are born after you become emperor are "born in the purple" and take precedent over those born before you became emperor/empress, but by using the despot honorary title you can put an earlier kid back to the front of the succession.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 07:37

Kulkasha: Jan 15, 2010; But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.

Hmm. I feel like a proper bureaucratic/imperial system should ditch the demesne limit altogether in exchange for massively increased costs/upkeep, in addition to those items you just listed. Like, the trade-off would be
A: having a governor/intendant/noble govern the county/duchy with inferior taxes/revenues and the possibility of revolt, but which has free levies, vs
B: directly governing a given county, which would give top taxes, but would cost in upkeep and which you would have to balance with paying for a standing army.
Sort of bridging the gap between CK2 and EU4, in other words.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 07:51

Darkrenown: Jul 18, 2012; please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

Fall Sick and Die posted:

I cant find any specific name for it, it just seem to have been the accepted system. It reached its apex in the Qing dynasty but there are offhanded comments that it existed earlier. The Thai also seemed to have used a similar system and still do today for their royal family. In the Song dynasty, which was the majority of the CK2 timeline, the major system for enfeoffment was the examination system. Maybe a form of government where only persons who have passed an examination system can be appointed as nobles, and it works entirely in terms of holding competitive examinations, learning + luck + education traits the major defining factor for success in exams. The King would appoint the dukes through exams, the dukes appoint their counts, the counts appoint their barons. At the lower levels, petty bribery and cheating would be more rampant, but at the upper levels you'd get some pretty strong personalities, ultra-effective people, but probably all ambitious or some other difficult to manage traits. I think with a new government form and a new succession system like those two, you could call it Imperial Appointment Succession and Bureaucratic government, it'd be easy to model East Asian-type systems, from loose feudalism of the Zhou dynasty to more centralized bureaucratic states.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Hmmm. I was thinking about how you'd try and model their purpose; factions usually have an aim, whereas many secret societies were simply associations for the furthering of their members.

I like the idea of a plot to cheat on the imperial examination system, where eventually it's almost impossible to pass without cheating~

Would be cool. On the topic, these are the super-rough notes I made last time I played Byz for how to make viceroys/imperial poo poo more fun:

quote:

Should have a pool of possible qualified candidates who have passed bureaucratic exams and/or used dirty dealings to get in. candidates can also indicate interest in a specific title which could give them some greater chance of getting that assignment all else being equal.

Titles marked as vice-royalties would always have a successor chosen from the pool, so unless the monarch wants to interfere, they should not have any extra work to do when a viceroy dies (or is fired). If for some reason they want to change who the next viceroy will be there may be some cost to this, prestige or some tyranny. Might have a number of "free" picks before penalty kicks in.

Another idea would be to have a corruption system within the bureaucracy - the more dirty dealing not being punished and monarch interference etc goes on the more corrupt the system gets, until titles are just being bought and the gold pocketed by bureaucrats. At low levels people are much less likely to cheat and being caught at it is a major scandal. Highly ranked Aristocrats or rich people may dislike low corruption since they need to stick to the same rules as everyone else, while lesser nobles, poorer characters, and the commoners will like it as they have a chance to succeed on merit.

Exams could be some event chains similar to the older ambition ones like building a flying machine or running an inn.

No idea when/if I'd get to change them, but it's been on my mind.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 08:11

Edison was a dick: Apr 3, 2010; direct current only

Autonomous Monster posted:

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to make this man king of all the world. Good luck

You need to press his claim to stop him being a monk.
Good luck doing that against the Karlings, or even convincing him to come to your court.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 08:53

TheCIASentMe: Jul 11, 2003; I'll get you! Just you wait and see!

Demon_Corsair posted:

Holy poo poo really?

I thought that bribing any random maybe on that list was the only way to get a plot going.

So I can just browse to random vassels of my target and ask them to join my plot?

This will make taking over Scotland one county at a time from the petty king of moray not take generations!

Well, no. Vassals of your target should, in theory, already be on that list.

But your target's liege's vassals should be able to join.

It gets a bit hit or miss at times.

TheCIASentMe fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Sep 15, 2016

# ? Sep 15, 2016 13:50

druthers: Oct 12, 2012

Elias_Maluco posted:

People keep saying this kind of thing like it is easy

Maybe Im bad at this but 90% of my assassination plots never even reach 100%

Ordinarily I�d agree with this, but I for some reason I never seem to have that much trouble offing any barons in my capital county.
If you�re having trouble with getting enough plot power, you can use the seduction focus to get loads of lovers, all of whom will back your plot.

One other thing worth mentioning is that if you�re playing as a Merchant Republic it can be difficult to get any other cities in the capital. Because if you kill the mayor, the game generates a random character to take inherit it, so you have to revoke the title to take the city.
The problem is that you can�t revoke titles as a republic without having a valid reason, and the only way I�ve found to get one of those is to spy on the mayor until you get the fabricated evidence event that gives you an option to imprison, fail the imprisonment attempt so that the mayor rebels, which makes him a traitor, which will let you revoke the city once you�ve won the war.

Now that I write that, it occurs to me that it might be more reliable to make the mayor your court physician and wait for him to mess up a treatment.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 14:23

darthbob88: Oct 13, 2011; YOSPOS

SkySteak posted:

So I was hoping to make some more Merchant Republics for my Byzantine Empire to help roll in more dosh. I must ask though what makes a good candidate place for a Merchant Republic? I have Venice which is obvious but what qualities does a good country need to have for a mechant republic? I know it needs to be coastal but is there anything else to consider?

You also want to give them a small duchy so you don't actually give up much of your empire, and with a coastal de jure capital, as there's an occasional bug where new doges will move to the de jure capital of the duchy, transforming it into a mere republic and also destroying all their trade posts.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 14:53

punched my v-card at camp: Sep 4, 2008; Broken and smokin' where the infrared deer plunge in the digital snake

Edison was a dick posted:

You need to press his claim to stop him being a monk.
Good luck doing that against the Karlings, or even convincing him to come to your court.

Playing as the Byzantines, I got him to matri-marry one of my daughters, which I thought was real cool

# ? Sep 15, 2016 15:30

Fall Sick and Die: Nov 22, 2003

Darkrenown posted:

Would be cool. On the topic, these are the super-rough notes I made last time I played Byz for how to make viceroys/imperial poo poo more fun:

No idea when/if I'd get to change them, but it's been on my mind.

That would all be really cool, and yeah the landed nobility should HATE any examination system, having a system that is pretty much half/half would be a big recipe for instability, with talented commoners competing against rich nobles for positions on the council...

# ? Sep 15, 2016 15:47

Kennel: May 1, 2008; BAWWW-UNH!

Aztecs created Hispanian Empire and it's now independent. Does anyone know if I need to destroy both their Empires if I want And Stay Out! achievement?

# ? Sep 15, 2016 15:48

binge crotching: Apr 2, 2010

Kennel posted:

Aztecs created Hispanian Empire and it's now independent. Does anyone know if I need to destroy both their Empires if I want And Stay Out! achievement?

It requires the Global Flag "aztecs_defeated" to be set. That flag requires the holder of "e_mexikha" (the Aztec Empire title) to be unlanded and not have any regiments. You can ignore Hispania and just work on the Aztec Empire until they have nothing.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 18:53

Goofballs: Jun 2, 2011

I never really played a trade republic much before. Anyway when you have a trade post for an ocean area, say directly in your starting province and the 4 other families in your republic decide to build their trade posts for that ocean area in the surrounding provinces does it count as yours or do you have to gently caress with them in some way to have it count as yours in order for building out to be profitable in the way it optimally would be?

# ? Sep 15, 2016 19:11

Edison was a dick: Apr 3, 2010; direct current only

druthers posted:

One other thing worth mentioning is that if you�re playing as a Merchant Republic it can be difficult to get any other cities in the capital. Because if you kill the mayor, the game generates a random character to take inherit it, so you have to revoke the title to take the city.
The problem is that you can�t revoke titles as a republic without having a valid reason, and the only way I�ve found to get one of those is to spy on the mayor until you get the fabricated evidence event that gives you an option to imprison, fail the imprisonment attempt so that the mayor rebels, which makes him a traitor, which will let you revoke the city once you�ve won the war.

Now that I write that, it occurs to me that it might be more reliable to make the mayor your court physician and wait for him to mess up a treatment.

I usually go for excommunication.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 19:55

Kennel: May 1, 2008; BAWWW-UNH!

SeaTard posted:

It requires the Global Flag "aztecs_defeated" to be set. That flag requires the holder of "e_mexikha" (the Aztec Empire title) to be unlanded and not have any regiments. You can ignore Hispania and just work on the Aztec Empire until they have nothing.

Thanks

# ? Sep 15, 2016 20:40

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

The guy who's working on the Random CK2 generator has a very interesting feature coming soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL0ti4crjvI

# ? Sep 15, 2016 20:42

jzilla: Apr 13, 2007

Pakled posted:

The guy who's working on the Random CK2 generator has a very interesting feature coming soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL0ti4crjvI

Finally my dreams of ruling Giant Penis Island can come true.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 20:46

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Pakled posted:

The guy who's working on the Random CK2 generator has a very interesting feature coming soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL0ti4crjvI

Whaaaat the gently caress that's insane, that's gonna make it trivial for people to make new maps. :staredog:

# ? Sep 15, 2016 20:50

Elias_Maluco: Aug 23, 2007; I need to sleep

When is paradox hiring this guy?

# ? Sep 15, 2016 21:09

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

Pakled posted:

The guy who's working on the Random CK2 generator has a very interesting feature coming soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL0ti4crjvI

And now it's been released.
http://ck2generator.com/

# ? Sep 15, 2016 21:20

jzilla: Apr 13, 2007

I'd call this a huge success.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 22:41

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Hmmm. I was thinking about how you'd try and model their purpose; factions usually have an aim, whereas many secret societies were simply associations for the furthering of their members.

I like the idea of a plot to cheat on the imperial examination system, where eventually it's almost impossible to pass without cheating~

CK2+ factions have been basically this for years. You've got several different vassal factions that are mutual defense and aid societies - all the members vote on their faction attitude toward their liege, what they want to demand (if anything) or contribute (if anything) from/to their liege, whether to declare war on him, etc. and these are not considered to be traitorous factions, so the liege can't disband them or discourage membership. Traitorous factions still exist like in the unmodded game, also.

It's a much better faction system than vanilla, I'm frankly surprised nobody at Paradox has put it in since it is Wiz's system originally. Seems like it would have fit well into Conclave :shrug:

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Sep 15, 2016

# ? Sep 15, 2016 23:04

TorakFade: Oct 3, 2006; I strongly disapprove

jb7 posted:

I'd call this a huge success.

It appears your map has leprosy, there's pieces falling off your giant penis.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 23:04

Fuligin: Oct 27, 2010; wait what the fuck??

Jazerus posted:

CK2+ factions have been basically this for years. You've got several different vassal factions that are mutual defense and aid societies - all the members vote on their faction attitude toward their liege, what they want to demand (if anything) or contribute (if anything) from/to their liege, whether to declare war on him, etc. and these are not considered to be traitorous factions, so the liege can't disband them or discourage membership. Traitorous factions still exist like in the unmodded game, also.

It's a much better faction system than vanilla, I'm frankly surprised nobody at Paradox has put it in since it is Wiz's system originally. Seems like it would have fit well into Conclave

CK+ has gotten really good. I started playing with it again since the RD compatibility patch and I haven't felt this engaged with the game in a long time.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 23:32

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# ? May 29, 2024 20:38

Kainser: Apr 27, 2010; O'er the sea from the north
there sails a ship
With the people of Hel
at the helm stands Loki
After the wolf
do wild men follow

CK+ has some other features that I'm surprised haven't been adapted to the game. The crusades rewards system is significantly better than in vanilla for one.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 23:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings II: When all else fails, I open my heart and put my faith in Satan

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