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I personally think we should take a moment to pray for the souls of all the white children gunned down by police because they had a toy gun. *crickets* lozzle fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 12:59
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Radish posted:I mean it's totally ridiculous with any sort of thought. So this kid has a toy gun he knows is fake. What possible realistic reason could he have to point that at an officer? If the gun was real you could make the claim he just lost the quick draw, but with a toy he points and then what? It's such an obvious lie but it's all you need to make sensible people say "well then this is ok and certainly no reason to think that maybe there is a severe problem where an unarmed child can be killed by an agent of the state." I think it's sort of a lousy argument to get into, because there's the assumption that its okay for kids to get shot if they point fake guns at officers, when I'd rather have a bit more discretion involved in this. Of course this raises officer risk (or makes them feel more at risk, same difference really) if they don't great any possible threat with full lethal force, so yeah. So you have hundreds of dead suspects in exchange for officer peace of mind. I won't even say it makes the cops safer at all to act like this, since per capita officer death rate in the US isn't really different from other western countries while suspect death rate is freakishly high in comparison, iirc.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:03
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I think it's sort of a lousy argument to get into, because there's the assumption that its okay for kids to get shot if they point fake guns at officers, when I'd rather have a bit more discretion involved in this. No you see officer death rate is only comparable to other developed nations because we allow cops to indiscriminately kill black people! It all makes sense!
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Sep 16, 2016 13:06
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Revelation 2-13 posted:People went from 'there is literally no way Hillary can lose', to 'well clearly there is something wrong with how these polls are made, there is too many olds and also....' I'd say if anything the 'likely voter models' are probably underestimating Trump, at least it looks like he has managed to activate the white thrash who normally won't bother voting, and haven't bothered in years, by him being "anti-establishment", anti-politician, racist and fascist and 'nuke the middle east' as gently caress. The mythic, silent, hordes of white people have not been activated by Code Orange and in fact do not exist. They didn't save us from the Anti-Colonialist Moor and they won't save us from Satan's Bride either. They failed both Romney and McCain, because the proportional number of white people, both trash and acceptable, is in decline. At best Trump activated a bunch of assholes who usually vote in the general but not in the primary to come out and support the all but explicit campaign for their trash 14 words.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:09
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I think it's sort of a lousy argument to get into, because there's the assumption that its okay for kids to get shot if they point fake guns at officers, when I'd rather have a bit more discretion involved in this. What is it that makes our officers so skittish that they absolutely must murder any potential threat with enough melanin?
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Sep 16, 2016 13:11
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Really the excuses as to why it's ok to shoot the kids when they meet certain criteria is just window dressing on the real issue that America thinks that cops killing certain people is totally acceptable. Saying the kid pointed the gun or that he was totally, absolutely (well maybe) a robbery suspect is just so that people that aren't open racists can pretend that there's some sort of actual supervision and control in regards to police violence so anyone complaining is a whiner and not Serious and Sensible like them.Geostomp posted:What is it that makes our officers so skittish that they absolutely must murder any potential threat with enough melanin? America's history of racism combined with the narrative police organizations push that every day could be their last as they have the most dangerous job in the world. Also as the FBI pointed out neo-nazis have been infiltrating police for years but it's impolite to point it out. http://thegrio.com/2015/05/12/fbi-white-supremacists-law-enforcement/ Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 13:13
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Geostomp posted:What is it that makes our officers so skittish that they absolutely must murder any potential threat with enough melanin? Their job is to make sure they come home every night, everyone else is expendable.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:14
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Blackstone's formulation (Better that x guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be wrongly punished) really needs to be updated for self-defense cases so that the odds of someone getting executed for a legitimate self-defense case should be roughly equal to the odds that an unarmed person gets shot putatively in self-defense.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:15
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Of course we are getting dangerously close to having neo-nazis infiltrate the office of the President in broad daylight so 
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Sep 16, 2016 13:17
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Cops just want to serve and protect, while MILLENNIALS just want to WHINE and PROTEST.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:17
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Radish posted:Of course we are getting dangerously close to having neo-nazis infiltrate the office of the President in broad daylight so
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Sep 16, 2016 13:18
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FactsAreUseless posted:If 40 percent of America holds their values, maybe they're not "neo-nazis" and instead are "your friends and neighbors and people you've spent your entire life around, and these are just America's values." I'd like to think that America isn't such a terrible country with so many horrible people but I guess it's trying to prove me wrong.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:22
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FactsAreUseless posted:If 40 percent of America holds their values, maybe they're not "neo-nazis" and instead are "your friends and neighbors and people you've spent your entire life around, and these are just America's values." That does not mean they are not neo-nazis.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:24
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FactsAreUseless posted:Cops just want to serve and protect, while MILLENNIALS just want to WHINE and PROTEST. Can't hear this in anything other than democrat voice.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:25
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CommieGIR posted:That does not mean they are not neo-nazis. In fact, Hannah Arendt's whole thesis is that the literal Nazis were "friends and neighbours and people you've spent your whole life around"
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Sep 16, 2016 13:37
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I was talking with my female office mate the other day about the election. I was telling her I wasn't super excited at first to vote for Clinton, but I had been planning on it anyway, but with the crazy sexist poo poo she'd been going through that mirrors what I've also gone through in my personal / professional life I'm starting to feel more like "Bitches gotta stick together!" and getting more ragey-excited to vote for her. She felt the same way.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:40
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If you ever find yourself on the wrong end of ethnic or religious violence, you're going to find that friends and neighbors really, really want to rape you and/or beat you to death. Good morning goons!
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Sep 16, 2016 13:41
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Hodgepodge posted:If you ever find yourself on the wrong end of ethnic or religious violence, you're going to find that friends and neighbors really, really want to rape you and/or beat you to death.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:42
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Hodgepodge posted:If you ever find yourself on the wrong end of ethnic or religious violence, you're going to find that friends and neighbors really, really want to rape you and/or beat you to death. Chris Hedges' "War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning" has some good eye opening stuff on just what regular people are willing to do once they have been convinced that their ingroup is threatened by Others. To quote a Propagadhi song "Ordinary people do hosed up things, when hosed up things become ordinary"
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Sep 16, 2016 13:43
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Radish posted:Maybe I have been paying too much attention to the news but I'm getting the feeling that moderate Republicans are starting to feel the Trump since he's letting them be a little more loose with all those weird feelings they've been told to suppress for thirty years. Spray with standard conservative talking points ("lower taxes!" "spend on military") and pepper with barely left proposals (mother-only childcare) and baby, you got a stew going on containing the hard right-liners and middle. It's nothing to worry about, of course, as the Very Smart People have assured us that there's no way Trump can win.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:45
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The real other is the self. We belong to the cosmos, not the other way around. No body lives forever.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:46
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Geostomp posted:What is it that makes our officers so skittish that they absolutely must murder any potential threat with enough melanin? my guess institutional history, different overall approach to handling crime (Tuff On Crime), militarization, training focused on dangers of suspects (and lack of training in resolving conflict by not engaging physically), police culture, overall cultural attitudes about gun usage, different methodology on firing practices (America emphasizes two to chest one to head (although in practice cop aim is poo poo so they just dump their magazine in a direction) and thin blue liners will holler that THERE ARE NO WARNING SHOTS ALL SHOTS ARE LETHAL DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND GUN SAFETY while other nations police use shots to limbs as part of the escalation of force because actually a leg shot is less lethal than a torso shot), legal protections and standards and about use of force (the aforementioned idea that pointing a gun/firing a warning shot == a lethal gesture results in cops having only two choices in their mental toolkit: do nothing or go lethal. legally, it's similar: it was a Good Shoot or the cops career/life is over), lack of federal control of police policy, and, of course, racism. probably missed things, phone posting is hard.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:47
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Cheesus posted:Very Smart People have assured us that there's no way Trump can win. Oh god 
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Sep 16, 2016 13:49
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If Trump wins, does that mean that Harold "Five minute letter" Bornstein, MD will become Physician to the President? 
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Sep 16, 2016 13:52
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Hodgepodge posted:If you ever find yourself on the wrong end of ethnic or religious violence, you're going to find that friends and neighbors really, really want to rape you and/or beat you to death. If I may plug a book real quick, Julie Otsuka's When the Emperor was Divine is so goddamned good and this is part of why. It's a book about Japanese concentration camps during WWII and at the end when our protagonists go home, oof. There is like a chapter about looking in neighbors windows and seeing the things that were almost certainly taken from their house. And then the last is one of the best chapters of any book and when it got released a lot of white readers whined about it and said they'd like the book better without it. Making white people uncomfortable about is almost always good.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:53
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https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/776754354481205248 I can barely handle the suspense - will Trump reveal himself to be a fat racist idiot, or a fat racist idiot piece of poo poo?
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Sep 16, 2016 13:54
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Radish posted:Oh god http://election.princeton.edu/2016/09/16/is-a-change-in-the-air/ He seems confident this will swing back, but confirms what I've suspected: Trump is now acceptable to the GOP and a normal Republican candidate.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:55
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Night10194 posted:http://election.princeton.edu/2016/09/16/is-a-change-in-the-air/ Christ. If Trump wins, my girlfriend's parents might leave the US and move here 
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Sep 16, 2016 13:58
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Tiler Kiwi posted:my guess Also lack of independent investigation into police violence. The DA isn't going to give a gently caress if a cop shoots someone.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:59
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Night10194 posted:http://election.princeton.edu/2016/09/16/is-a-change-in-the-air/ Yeah I assumed that would happen which I why I thought Hillary's attempts to swing moderates with shame was naive, especially for her who should know better.
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Sep 16, 2016 13:59
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Night10194 posted:http://election.princeton.edu/2016/09/16/is-a-change-in-the-air/ This is exactly what people were worried about but the very smart people would say it was a silly thought and Trumpism would die.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:00
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Thing is all Trump has to say is "yeah Obama was born in US I guess, Clinton started it though" and the media's going to have another pivotgasm and then we'll get a three-day back and forth on how Clinton started birtherism. Bannon might even be able to talk Trump into it.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:00
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Radish posted:Yeah I assumed that would happen which I why I thought Hillary's attempts to swing moderates with shame was naive, especially for her who should know better. In fairness, basically up until he hired Bannon and Conway, it was working perfectly because Trump was regularly rebelling against the attempts to make him a perfectly normal republican candidate rather than allowing the media to do it by capitalizing on their low expectations.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:01
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It's also an indication that white supremacy will be a new plank in the GOP platform since why not.Night10194 posted:In fairness, basically up until he hired Bannon and Conway, it was working perfectly because Trump was regularly rebelling against the attempts to make him a perfectly normal republican candidate rather than allowing the media to do it by capitalizing on their low expectations. It's more that the media is actively smoothing off all of his rough edges than just simply giving him a pass which is becoming more and more concerning.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:01
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Radish posted:Yeah I assumed that would happen which I why I thought Hillary's attempts to swing moderates was naive, especially for her who should know better. As someone who digs into the crosstabs regularly, moderates do actually go for her, even lately. Hell, that Fox News poll that came out, while not having a moderate sample had her at 20% support (RV, LV is 19%) from conservatives.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:02
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Unless they end up losing this election after all, which is still likely. As one article pointed out, this is the best Trump has polled all race and for this he had to have a month where basically every single thing went right for him, from idiot media coverage to somehow getting lucky enough not to get poo poo on in Mexico to his opponent literally falling on her face on 9/11.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:03
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Just got caught up on the birtherism coverage. S...something mattered? 
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Sep 16, 2016 14:04
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Chokes McGee posted:Just got caught up on the birtherism coverage. S...something mattered?
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Sep 16, 2016 14:05
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iospace posted:As someone who digs into the crosstabs regularly, moderates do actually go for her, even lately. Hell, that Fox News poll that came out, while not having a moderate sample had her at 20% support (RV, LV is 19%) from conservatives. Realtalk, we're probably still processing the fallout of video of her literally collapsing as she's being helped into a van, which, griping about 'optics' aside, isn't a great look for a candidate.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:05
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iospace posted:As someone who digs into the crosstabs regularly, moderates do actually go for her, even lately. Hell, that Fox News poll that came out, while not having a moderate sample had her at 30%+ support from conservatives. Trump is losing: Women African Americans Latinos Muslims Catholics Mormons College educated white men LGBT and apparently not great with moderate Republicans but still is gaining ground nationally and now winning swing states. I just don't understand. I'm hoping that the day after the election it comes out that uneducated white males were significantly over-sampled but Trump losing practically every demographic while still being very competitive is mind boggling.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:05
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