Historicals: Only ordered 5 reference books for my lead barbies, any recommendations?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Historicals: Only ordered 5 reference books for my lead barbies, any recommendations?

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Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

golden bubble posted:

To be fair, the Stuart can absolutely penetrate the Panther's side and rear armor. But its only chance in a realistic head-on-head engagement is to hope the Panther crew is green enough to panic after a hit. Does CoC take crew experience into account with its opposed dice pools?

Crew experience mostly comes into play when you're talking about the morale effects of what happens after the hit - green crews freak out and reverse gears (or just bail out of the tank) much more readily than experienced crews.

In terms of armor vs penetration of the scenario you described (Stuart vs Panther), according to the Consolidated Arsenal List the Armor Value of a Panther is an 11 and the AP of a Stuart is 5. When rolling to check for penetration, you roll a number of dice equal to your AP Value (5 dice in the Stuart's case), with a 5+ being a pen result against the forward armor, a 4+ being a penetration against side armor, and a 3+ being a penetration against the rear armor. The target tank then rolls a number of dice equal to its Armor Value, with each 5+ being a "save." You compare the number of dice that penetrate vs the number that save, with more dire results the more the penetration score beats the save score (equal or more yields a result).

Statistically speaking, the Panther is going to generate a hair under 4 "saves," whereas the Stuart is going to generate just under 2 penetrations from the front, 2.5 from the side, and 3.3 from the rear. A lucky roll for the Stuart (especially against the side or rear armor) versus an unlucky roll from the Panther can absolutely result in a penetrating hit, though. Achieving an outright kill is hard (you need at least three net penetration dice after saves), but scoring a mission kill (i.e. taking out the main gun, wounding or killing the commander, putting enough shock on the crew that they bail out, etc) is easier. So is stacking on shock that reduces the Panther's ability to move or return fire as effectively.

And by the time you step up to a basic Sherman (AP Value of 7), you're looking at having an almost even chance to tie when hitting the Panther's side armor and a pretty good chance of beating it from the rear.

# ? Sep 14, 2016 22:57

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# ? May 11, 2024 12:02

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

So if Team Yankee and Flames of War are on the same basic system, is it correct that I could exact Stalin's ultimate revenge by steamrolling some Nazis with my Motor Rifle Company?

# ? Sep 14, 2016 23:07

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Phi230 posted:

So if Team Yankee and Flames of War are on the same basic system, is it correct that I could exact Stalin's ultimate revenge by steamrolling some Nazis with my Motor Rifle Company?

Kiiiinda?

There'd be a bit of fudging to get them to work properly, but the biggest obstacle is the points systems are different and incompatible, and different eras in WW2 use different math anyway.

# ? Sep 14, 2016 23:29

Springfield Fatts: May 24, 2010; Pillbug

Thundercloud posted:

Got my BA2 shipping notice so should have that Friday.

drat, really? Amazon is saying October 18th!

# ? Sep 15, 2016 02:56

muggins: Mar 3, 2008; I regard the death and mangling of a couple thousand toy soldiers as a small affair, a kind of morning dash

Yeah mine should be here in a few days. They sold enough copies that the first print run ran out, so I imagine amazon won't get theirs until the second is printed.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 02:58

Class Warcraft: Apr 27, 2006

I've already received mine and I live in the US, color me impressed.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 03:01

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

I ordered mine from NWS wargaming so I'll probably get it in a month.

Cheap as hell, though.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 03:16

Fish and Chimps: Feb 16, 2012; mmmfff; Fun Shoe

lilljonas posted:

Big Chain of Command is ok, but we found that we've done some alterations to suit our playing group, especially for campaigns. I'm not even sure which of these are house rules, as we've added so much on top of the core rules that it gets a bit blurred to me.

First of all, don't play a panzer platoon against a normal platoon. Just don't. If you want to field lots of panzers, have one player on each side play a panzer platoon. It could be down to us playing 1941, where tanks are kings, but we find that games with tanks often boils down to the side that has surviving tanks winning, as the infantry can't do anything about it. Last 4 player game saw the Soviets simply retreating when our tanks blew out one of the T-34s, leaving the other one alone agains several tanks. This is probably very different in later periods, with PIATS and panzerfausts and stuff.

Secondly, and I think most of these are in the Big CoC book, but decide on who is leading each side. We've decided that only that player can get the turn end result on tripple sixes. Others treat their tripples as normal doubles. Only the leader can use CoC dice to force a turn end. However, any player can use a CoC die to take over the role of the leader. Also, a new leader will be chosen if one player's platoon retreats. We've also decided that you can only roll one double phase, and a second double 6 will turn into 5s instead, adding to your CoC dice collection.

CoCs main fault is that all the scenarios except patrol are quite badly designed. It's very obvious that CoC was built to shine though the patrol scenario, and all the rest are kind of slapped on. So we've been tinkering with them, especially the attack/defend scenario, where we have added turn limit victory conditions for the defender. That makes it important WHO is the leader of each side. This gets more important when you play a six player game.

I'm trying to get the group to sit down and record these house rules, as they are getting quite extensive and cover a lot of aspects of the game by now. And that's without including our own version of the At the Sharp End campaign rules!

Our first campaign was some 5-6 battles, but the Stalino campaign that we ended last night was up to some 20 games, including several 4 and 6 player battles. But our experiences are very coloured by us playing 1941, as I sincerely believe that a lot of the balancing in the game was done by playtesting with 1944 and 1945 platoons.

Well, at least we're playing 1944 platoons. We're not planning on anyone playing tank platoons. They seem massively OP compared to infantry platoons.

I'll talk to the rest of the group about the other stuff. We're only 4 people and most of the time we'll probably be playing 1 v 1, but for the times we don't, best be prepared for some of the wonky stuff that will turn up.

# ? Sep 15, 2016 07:33

RLgandalf: Feb 13, 2016

Hi historical chaps. For those poor souls who don't yet own Chain of Command there is a sale on now!
For those of us who do own the rules, all the physical accessories and supplements are on sale too.

One note: they seem to have set the sale up incorrectly, as it is advertised as 20% off and is actually 15% off in the store. :downs:

I dropped them a note and hopefully they'll fix it.

http://toofatlardies.co.uk/product-category/chain-of-command/

# ? Sep 15, 2016 19:17

Yvonmukluk: Oct 10, 2012; Everything is Sinister

RLgandalf posted:

Hi historical chaps. For those poor souls who don't yet own Chain of Command there is a sale on now!
For those of us who do own the rules, all the physical accessories and supplements are on sale too.

One note: they seem to have set the sale up incorrectly, as it is advertised as 20% off and is actually 15% off in the store.
I dropped them a note and hopefully they'll fix it.

http://toofatlardies.co.uk/product-category/chain-of-command/

Dang, shots fired at BA.

Kind of considering picking up the bundle just 'cause. Plus it gives some terrain/pinning markers for my BA dudes!

# ? Sep 15, 2016 23:52

Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

Yvonmukluk posted:

Dang, shots fired at BA.

Have you played both? CoC is so far beyond BA's league it's not even funny.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 02:15

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

CoC looks really fuckin complicated

# ? Sep 16, 2016 02:33

enrious: Jan 22, 2015

Just picked up the CoC rules, thanks for the heads up. Is there still going to be a Roll20 demo for the rules?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 02:55

Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

alg posted:

CoC looks really fuckin complicated

CoC is incredibly simple once you learn the core mechanic (the Command Dice). Vehicles introduce a little bit of complication, but the basic game (two infantry platoons squaring off) is dirt-simple.

I'ma make a Roll20 account and poke around with it a bit. Hopefully then spectralent and I can blow each other up.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 03:27

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

They're both good games IMO.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 03:35

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Lardy rulesets seem very complicated on the surface, but they're all based on a simple core mechanic with a lot of situational rules on top that you don't need to worry about unless the particular situation arises.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 05:10

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Also nobody plays Sharp Practice here which is criminal, by God.

I'm going to have to paint two armies and invest in some colonial convict restraints to make someone play with me.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 05:11

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Nobody plays historicals here, not even FoW

# ? Sep 16, 2016 06:15

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

The good news is that because I live in Van Diemen's Land there's a whole lot of old convict rubbish lying around, and I don't even mean the population!

# ? Sep 16, 2016 07:21

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

Endman posted:

Also nobody plays Sharp Practice here which is criminal, by God.

I'm going to have to paint two armies and invest in some colonial convict restraints to make someone play with me.

Er the threads obviously tldr, because there's been two of us talking about it in the last 3-4 pages and I've been playing it since it's version 1 release

# ? Sep 16, 2016 07:51

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Speaking of Sharp Practice, I finished the last miniatures left from the plastic Perry French Line Infantry box yesterday.

I painted all the flank companies as Voltigeurs, giving me 3 units of 6 to deploy as skirmishers:

Voltigeurs look very much like "normal" Fusiliers, but they wear yellow collars, epoulettes in green and yellow (and sometimes red as well), carry short infantry sabres, grow moustaches, and have an extra tuft on the top of their pompoms on the head gear.

All of these, except the yellow collars, was pretty much against uniform regulations by 1812. But good luck telling your semi-elite troops that they are no longer allowed to wear the established signifiers of being elite soldiers. Even if your name is Napoleon they're bound to "forget" about the new regulations.

I also finished the command. The box comes with regimental command, so I'll pick up some suitable company command minis instead for Sharp Practice. The drummer will work, but fat chance that 40 blokes from a Fusilier company are walking around with the regimental Eagle all the time (by 1812, Napoleon demanded that each regiment only carried one eagle, instead of one for each battalion. But again, rule of cool won over regulations even back then, so many "forgot" to hand the extras back before walking into Russia).

And finally, my despotic Russian nemesis sent a picture of what's waiting for me. J�gers! And some line infantry.

Time to paint up a 6 pound cannon, to give them a welcoming salute... of grapeshot.

lilljonas fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Sep 16, 2016

# ? Sep 16, 2016 08:23

Thundercloud: Mar 28, 2010; To boldly be eaten where no grot has been eaten before!

Well I now have my copy of BA2, with my free Japanese Infantry box and some extra metal US paratroopers that I ordered.

Will do an unboxing when I've woken up a bit more.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 09:45

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Serotonin posted:

Er the threads obviously tldr, because there's been two of us talking about it in the last 3-4 pages and I've been playing it since it's version 1 release

Here as in where I physically reside, not the thread. I apologise; I didn't make that clear.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 13:27

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

lilljonas posted:

Speaking of Sharp Practice, I finished the last miniatures left from the plastic Perry French Line Infantry box yesterday.

I painted all the flank companies as Voltigeurs, giving me 3 units of 6 to deploy as skirmishers:

Voltigeurs look very much like "normal" Fusiliers, but they wear yellow collars, epoulettes in green and yellow (and sometimes red as well), carry short infantry sabres, grow moustaches, and have an extra tuft on the top of their pompoms on the head gear.

All of these, except the yellow collars, was pretty much against uniform regulations by 1812. But good luck telling your semi-elite troops that they are no longer allowed to wear the established signifiers of being elite soldiers. Even if your name is Napoleon they're bound to "forget" about the new regulations.

I also finished the command. The box comes with regimental command, so I'll pick up some suitable company command minis instead for Sharp Practice. The drummer will work, but fat chance that 40 blokes from a Fusilier company are walking around with the regimental Eagle all the time (by 1812, Napoleon demanded that each regiment only carried one eagle, instead of one for each battalion. But again, rule of cool won over regulations even back then, so many "forgot" to hand the extras back before walking into Russia).

And finally, my despotic Russian nemesis sent a picture of what's waiting for me. J�gers! And some line infantry.

Time to paint up a 6 pound cannon, to give them a welcoming salute... of grapeshot.

These look wonderful!

I'm currently waiting on enough men to make three groups of British Regulars and some Dragoons in foot service to serve as skirmishers for my 1801-08 force and I'm very excited. After that it'll be a cannon!

# ? Sep 16, 2016 13:31

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Endman posted:

These look wonderful!

I'm currently waiting on enough men to make three groups of British Regulars and some Dragoons in foot service to serve as skirmishers for my 1801-08 force and I'm very excited. After that it'll be a cannon!

Nice. I'm stuck with the realization that I need another group of line infantry to form a proper attack column (come on, they're French!), and that my single box of Dragoons leaves me two cavalrymen short of two units. A second box of infantry would give me plenty of infantry, and a second box of Dragoons would give me three units of them. So on one hand it'd be great to paint something else next, like Hussars or some kind of Impact Cavalry, but on the other hand, just doubling the boxes I have would give me bigger, beefier formations.

Any advice on this from people who have played SP?

E:
Ooooor, I could paint the dozen of British tanks that are halfways done and waiting for decals.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 14:15

Thundercloud: Mar 28, 2010; To boldly be eaten where no grot has been eaten before!

Me unboxing Bolt Action 2 with pictures of the stuff inside it.

http://toomanymetalmen.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/band-of-brothers-bolt-action-2-boxed.html

Let me know your thoughts. Am I getting my review articles 'right'?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 14:32

Yooper: Apr 30, 2012

Thundercloud posted:

Me unboxing Bolt Action 2 with pictures of the stuff inside it.

http://toomanymetalmen.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/band-of-brothers-bolt-action-2-boxed.html

Let me know your thoughts. Am I getting my review articles 'right'?

More white-space. Space the photos you have equally through out the article, especially if it's just general photos and not specific to that paragraph. The wall of text at the end is a bummer to read.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 14:41

Springfield Fatts: May 24, 2010; Pillbug

Eh, spacing the photos out would have been nice, but it was a fine review. I appreciated the matter-of-fact approach, too many blogs and especially nerd blogs try to add patter or whimsy without pulling it off as entertaining. This is why I can't watch Beasts of War videos because I'm constantly yelling "shut up and tell me about the game!"

No one has brought it up so I assume it's a no, but does 2nd edition incorporate the experimental rules from first edition like expanded aircraft rules, night fighting, airborne insertion, etc.?

# ? Sep 16, 2016 15:01

Class Warcraft: Apr 27, 2006

Springfield Fatts posted:

Eh, spacing the photos out would have been nice, but it was a fine review. I appreciated the matter-of-fact approach, too many blogs and especially nerd blogs try to add patter or whimsy without pulling it off as entertaining. This is why I can't watch Beasts of War videos because I'm constantly yelling "shut up and tell me about the game!"

No one has brought it up so I assume it's a no, but does 2nd edition incorporate the experimental rules from first edition like expanded aircraft rules, night fighting, airborne insertion, etc.?

It has a few of the special scenario rules like night fighting, but oddly most of the rest like desert fighting, airborne landings, amphibious assault, ect are still only in the campaign books.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 15:09

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Will appreciate any suggestions on how to paint Italian paras for people short on skill, patience and paint variety.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 16:35

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

Endman posted:

Here as in where I physically reside, not the thread. I apologise; I didn't make that clear.

Ah fair enough. Sorry for snippy reply.

# ? Sep 16, 2016 17:29

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

Free-ish flat ships for the groggest among you

# ? Sep 16, 2016 19:13

3 Action Economist: May 22, 2002; Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

JcDent posted:

Free-ish flat ships for the groggest among you

Neat!

# ? Sep 16, 2016 20:03

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Oooh I can expand my whistling death ship roster

# ? Sep 16, 2016 20:44

Yvonmukluk: Oct 10, 2012; Everything is Sinister

Got my box of Commandos today! :toot:

Unfortunately it seems my LGS' order got screwed up and I have to wait until October to get my 2nd ed rulebook and Patton. :argh:

Also decided to buy the big bundle for Chain of Command. Between grabbing the cheap Five Men in Normandy, BA, and this, I'll be spoilt for choice when it comes to WWII at 28mm!

And since Flames of War has released Tank Aces for free, maybe I can cajole some of my fellow Tanks! players into Flames proper, right? Right?

# ? Sep 17, 2016 20:26

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Yvonmukluk posted:

Got my box of Commandos today!

Unfortunately it seems my LGS' order got screwed up and I have to wait until October to get my 2nd ed rulebook and Patton.

Also decided to buy the big bundle for Chain of Command. Between grabbing the cheap Five Men in Normandy, BA, and this, I'll be spoilt for choice when it comes to WWII at 28mm!

And since Flames of War has released Tank Aces for free, maybe I can cajole some of my fellow Tanks! players into Flames proper, right? Right?

Yeah apparently distros have hosed up in general on the 2e thing, since my FLGS is waiting on the rulebooks despite getting the freebie boxes already.

# ? Sep 17, 2016 20:30

Class Warcraft: Apr 27, 2006

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about the free Patton model I was supposed to get. Anyone else that got their 2nd edition rulebook, can you confirm if yours came with the Patton mini?

# ? Sep 17, 2016 20:38

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

I got a reminder that today was the last day to use the code they sent me that doesn't work!

Thanks, Warlord! :downs:

# ? Sep 18, 2016 02:30

muggins: Mar 3, 2008; I regard the death and mangling of a couple thousand toy soldiers as a small affair, a kind of morning dash

moths posted:

I got a reminder that today was the last day to use the code they sent me that doesn't work!

Thanks, Warlord!

It might have ended in Britain time

# ? Sep 18, 2016 16:53

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# ? May 11, 2024 12:02

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

No, I definitely got a second email from the US store. I put in a trouble ticket, so who knows.

# ? Sep 19, 2016 04:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Historicals: Only ordered 5 reference books for my lead barbies, any recommendations?

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