BlazeEmblem posted:I assume that all of that was there before Junko came along. Junko is an analyst, not a builder. It would have taken too long for her to make in less than a year. That means that the courtroom was always there. I figure that the complex itself was always there because Hope's Peak is nothing if not fond of secret stuff, and she found some central room that looked good and she just redesigned it to be the courtroom. The Reserve Course students can provide the manual labor.
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Sep 16, 2016 17:35
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BlazeEmblem posted:Of course, if she is alive, that would mean that the spikes missed her internal organs. All of them. Izuru has been established as having SHSL good luck to beat Nagito's. Butt Ghost posted:That reason especially is why I don't understand how people like Juzo. He acts like a loving roadblock pretty much all the time, so I don't see how people can sympathize with him. I don't think he's done a single redeeming thing in this series. He has arguably done more damage than Munakata. I think it's because he genuinely seems to be trying his best, but he's not smart enough to do it in a productive manner. When Kizakura points out that he's basically never succeeded at doing anything good, he admits he's right. It's a bit sympathetic at least. And don't worry, everyone's negative here, and you're hardly alone in not liking how the series ended up going.  I'm hoping Kodaka does a postmortem interview when DR3's finished. My Japanese isn't good enough to bother with reading Japanese fan sites, but I'm curious what kind of reaction Japanese DR fans had to the series. ApplesandOranges posted:That's what I'd figured she had done to the DR2 class (specifically whispering each one of them the right things to say to drive them to despair) but that would mean devoting the entire Despair arc to the DR2 cast, and they certainly couldn't do that. That's basically why I think the despair arc sucks. Not being that. Oh well.  TheMcD posted:That's because it is. While I think the overall tone and feel of the game improved, they should've stuck more with that style of execution. I hadn't known that the reason they scrapped the original concept was because they didn't think it'd sell enough. That's interesting. cloofish posted:comment on reddit 
Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 19:49
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Tired Moritz posted:I can't believe society's homophobia is the true villain of DanganRonpa. You're following a series whose creators have made it abundantly clear that they're commenting on Japan's obsession with "you are your talent, if you have no talent you are nothing". This series is also primarily targeted at 1) Japanese audiences who in fact do not have ten school shootings and massacres happening every single day, and who also have an obsession over high school being the best years of a person's life. The anime and video game industries bank on rose-colored nostalgia, not the horrid bullying, pressuring, anxieties and suicides that actually happen in Japanese high schools. There also isn't an LGBTQ movement in Japan quite the same way as in most of the western world: no matter what doujinshi and manga would have you believe, it's not an easy thing to be openly and seriously gay in modern Japan. While the thread finds it ridiculous that Juzo would risk the welfare of the world over Munakata possibly not being okay with his romantic feelings, in Japan that's more of a reality. You can lose friends and loved ones over it and get ostracized by society. "You're supposed to be the butt of the joke, long as you're that we won't attack you, but heaven forbid you dare suggest genuine romantic and sexual relationships of that nature!" Juzo's also SHSL Boxer and has been portrayed as a masculine and (by society's standards) normal male, not as a comedic relief flamboyant gay guy. To the general Japanese audience that does matter and isn't taken for granted. A pretty good job has already been done if there's Japanese viewers thinking "yeah, that's just stupid, there's worse things in the world than a guy loving another guy". It's not portrayed as "homophobes can just discard this whole part as off-plot fangirl-pandering" This is especially important to the group this is all directed at... 2) Teenagers. Yes, teenagers are the primary audience, not the cynical grown-ups, it's precisely why the games have pink instead of red blood and clearly over-the-top-executions: the ratings had to accommodate teenagers, the ones the creators want to send a message to. If you want teens to listen to what you have to say you can't make it a tame little after-school special. A semi-violent video game that's not constantly giving specific fortune cookie advice like "chin up, things will get better after high school" or "if you witness bullying, tell a teacher" appeals to the target audience a whole lot more. I'm pretty sure the series wouldn't have exploded the way it did if Dangan Ronpa 1 was "Naegi's getting bullied by Junko and his classmates! What should they do? They should stand up to the big bad bully and apologize to Naegi! Yay, happy ending! Haven't we all learned a valuable lesson today?" A whole lot of stuff is happening in the series besides "look at this gruesome execution" and I like it for that.  I personally didn't get any sort of disgust reaction out of Nanami's death or Chisa's "lobotomy". Both seemed pretty tame in terms of shock value. The student council massacre had me making faces over its brutality and context (Tsubasa wo Kudasai, anyone?  ), though.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:20
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CryingAthena posted:A whole lot of stuff is happening in the series besides "look at this gruesome execution" and I like it for that. I'm always a little confused that so many people say they liked the games because of the executions and investigations as opposed to the characters or whatever. As for Chiaki dying, it's less even shock value and more that she's a character who you're intended to have some attachment to at this point and feel bad about dying, as opposed to the random Johnnies you've never seen before and will indeed never see again.
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Sep 16, 2016 20:32
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Anatharon posted:Izuru has been established as having SHSL good luck to beat Nagito's. I feel like people are missing that I was making a Dragon Ball joke.
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Sep 16, 2016 21:18
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CryingAthena posted:Good
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Sep 16, 2016 21:52
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Also remember that Juzo doesn't know that Junko is going to literally end the world if he lets her go.
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Sep 16, 2016 22:06
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True. But he DOES know she's leading a bloodthirsty mob of disillusioned students.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:31
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He... wasn't exactly in the best state of mind either. He's humiliated by Junko and his love for Kyosuke, and by extension Juzo himself, is treated as a complete joke. He probably just wanted to escape the situation desperately, and he's clearly not pleased with his decision. Juzo's clearly not SHSL Decision Maker but I think the scene humanizes him.
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Sep 17, 2016 01:16
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he's definitely a more relatable and human garbage person than Ruruka, yeah
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Sep 17, 2016 01:18
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The underground complex was also in Zero. I don't remember if there was an explanation for it there either. Also, was anyone else expecting a 'You got the Galaga Hairpin!' popup at the end there?
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Sep 17, 2016 02:38
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A thought just occurred to me, as to how A.I. Chiaki was created. What if they discovered the brainwashing video of her death and found a way to eliminate any of the subliminal messages that caused the 77th class to be brainwashed? Yes it's a gruesomely slow death, but it also showcases Chiaki as courageously facing doom without giving up and defiantly telling Junko that she'll be defeated. I can see Naegi and co watching that and deciding to base the observer A.I. off this lone girl, who was so loved by her class that her death caused them to fall to despair. If she caused their despair, she could also return their hope.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:14
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They probably just put her there because she was an actual classmate so it was simple enough to fool them. It should be well documented who was chosen for their class, and even if most of them are idiots it's certainly plausible that some of them did their research before entering the school (like maybe the SHSL Imposter). Why make the lie more complicated than it needs to be?
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Sep 17, 2016 03:17
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It has less to do with her presence, and more with how the A.I. and the real person are not that vastly different. It's easy to explain why Nanami's image was chosen for the A.I., but less so why the A.I. shares so many of her personality traits right from the get-go. That kind of information had to come from somewhere to be programmed in. Of course it could just be Kodaka is lazy and doesn't feel like making the two vastly distinctive.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:21
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...It's not like she was top secret person like Izuru. There are records of her existence, people who've met her and aren't dead, etc etc. And the AI doesn't even match her anime personality all that closely, being much lazier for example.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:30
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Clarste posted:...It's not like she was top secret person like Izuru. There are records of her existence, people who've met her and aren't dead, etc etc. And the AI doesn't even match her anime personality all that closely, being much lazier for example. Incidentally, I'm sad they don't include bits about the SDR2 class' families. They were driving motivations for many of the cast (Teruteru's mom, Mahiru's mom, Kuzuryu's family, Hiyoko's traditional family, etc.) so yeah, if this was an actual show about the SDR2 cast that would have been nice to see.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:36
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I hope the final trial of VDR3 is using the lying system to frame someone else and get free yourself.
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Sep 17, 2016 03:43
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Ampuli posted:I hope the final trial of VDR3 is using the lying system to frame someone else and get free yourself. "it was you all along" is the worst twist like 99% of the time so I hope not
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Sep 17, 2016 05:00
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ApplesandOranges posted:Incidentally, I'm sad they don't include bits about the SDR2 class' families. They were driving motivations for many of the cast (Teruteru's mom, Mahiru's mom, Kuzuryu's family, Hiyoko's traditional family, etc.) so yeah, if this was an actual show about the SDR2 cast that would have been nice to see. well we can guess it doesn't end well for these families at all
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Sep 17, 2016 05:01
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Ampuli posted:I hope the final trial of VDR3 is using the lying system to frame someone else and get free yourself. For some reason people are convinced Kaede will turn out to be a killer or something and then robo naegi really does become the protagonist they're ignoring the fact that would be incredibly bad writing though
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Sep 17, 2016 05:12
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BlazeEmblem posted:DBZ DB/Z/Whatever aired before my time. voltcatfish posted:For some reason people are convinced Kaede will turn out to be a killer or something and then robo naegi really does become the protagonist What if Kaede is the killer but she kills robo Naegi and the actual actual protagonist is the girl on the poster who people thought would be the protagonist if it wasn't robo Naegi, and it was a double subversion because people expected her to die early ala Maizono. :whoa: Haifisch posted:On top of all this, one of the themes of Despair arc has been "there were a million things that could have stopped this, but none of them happened." Juzo could have stopped this if he had the massive courage needed to overcome societal homophobia. But Nagito could have stopped this if he shot the drat gun, the bigwigs at Hope's Peak could have stopped this by not enrolling Junko/not doing the Kamakura project/not using the reserve course as funding for mad science, Mitarai could have stopped this if he ran away from the crazy girl much earlier than he did, etc. It's hard to paint it as any one person's fault(except Junko's, obviously). Yeah one of my friends commented on how it's like Junko has SHSL because a million things could have stopped her and almost did, but didn't quite. If Sato didn't kill Natsumi, or Yukizome didn't run off to confront Junko without consulting Munakata/Sakakura, or the class listened to Nagito insteaed of Chiaki... Yinlock posted:"it was you all along" is the worst twist like 99% of the time so I hope not Yeah, as a twist, but if it gets established early on that Kaede's main motive is to get out and throughout the game starts building a plan it could work.
Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 05:27
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It's be neat to have the protagonist be the killer and have to mislead everyone to avoid conviction, but where do you take the plot once everyone else is dead? I can't imagine it would be very interesting after that unless someone survives or hidden characters are introduced.
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Sep 17, 2016 05:39
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CryingAthena posted:words Normally, I would agree. But Juzo never acted like he's a dude that would be overly conscious about what other people think. Munakata never acted like he would be offended that Juzo might be into dudes, or anything. They're no hints that this might even be a problem, especially in a series where Teruteru and Mikan ever existed. You can't have gay anime jokes around and then turn around and say "btw societal homophobia is bad and make people do really dumb things".
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Sep 17, 2016 05:58
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FPzero posted:It's be neat to have the protagonist be the killer and have to mislead everyone to avoid conviction, but where do you take the plot once everyone else is dead? I can't imagine it would be very interesting after that unless someone survives or hidden characters are introduced. If it was a build up, it'd be the last trial. If it wasn't, they don't need to have the same rules as the previous games. It could be a last man standing scenario. Tired Moritz posted:Normally, I would agree. But Juzo never acted like he's a dude that would be overly conscious about what other people think. Munakata never acted like he would be offended that Juzo might be into dudes, or anything. They're no hints that this might even be a problem, especially in a series where Teruteru and Mikan ever existed. Not to get too real but that is the sort of thing that is REALLY easy to say, not so much to actually do.
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Sep 17, 2016 06:10
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Yinlock posted:well we can guess it doesn't end well for these families at all I can't wait for next episode of Despair to have Teruteru boil his mom into a stew onscreen. 
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Sep 17, 2016 06:50
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I can't wait for next episode of Despair to have Teruteru boil his mom into a stew onscreen. Despair isn't allowed to be about the characters in DR2.
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Sep 17, 2016 07:02
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If the protagonist was a killer I would say it could only work in like a chapter 5 situation only because of gameplay reasons involving the FTE events, I don't think they would make two separate FTE chains for all the characters because you start playing as another character so the FTE would be different but since the last chapter doesn't have that FTE stuff they could do the whole changing protagonists thing and it would be fine gameplay wise. Hell I even remember back in DR1 LP days people were saying it would have been cool for Naegi to have died in chapter 5 execution and you controlled Kirigiri after that. Also after how chapter 5 of DR2 went I don't think they will ever surpass that trial but making the protagonist the killer if done well could be close
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Sep 17, 2016 07:59
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IceBorg posted:If the protagonist was a killer I would say it could only work in like a chapter 5 situation only because of gameplay reasons involving the FTE events, I don't think they would make two separate FTE chains for all the characters because you start playing as another character so the FTE would be different but since the last chapter doesn't have that FTE stuff they could do the whole changing protagonists thing and it would be fine gameplay wise. Hell I even remember back in DR1 LP days people were saying it would have been cool for Naegi to have died in chapter 5 execution and you controlled Kirigiri after that. I agree that the "You were the killer all along" twist could only work as a Chapter 5 case. For instance, say the victim and the deuterogonist (the Kyoko/Chiaki equivalent) were found in the same locked room, but the deuterogonist is still alive. When the trial starts, they immediately confess to the murder and call for the vote, but the MC can tell they're lying despite all the evidence pointing to them. As you unravel their lies and come closer to the truth, the MC comes to a terrible realization. Perhaps earlier in the chapter, the victim had attacked the MC in an area beyond Monokuma's surveillance(blacking out in the process), but they were saved by the deuterogonist. The truth is that the MC is the real murderer, and their partner is trying to take the fall to save them. So now you get the sadistic choice of confessing to the murder, or letting your friend die in your place. Or, since lie bullets are a thing, you can take a third option and claim the victim killed themselves. Since the murder took place outside of Monokuma's view, the mastermind couldn't see what happened, and thus can't dispute this claim. Unless they can, in which case they'd be admitting that they staged the murder as a trap to kill the main characters, like in DR1's fifth case. Wyvernil fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 08:58
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the hidden bonus chapter where you can choose to straight-up stone-cold murder a dude, hide the evidence, sabotage the investigation, win the trial and leave alive and alone
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Sep 17, 2016 20:55
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a cartoon duck posted:the hidden bonus chapter where you can choose to straight-up stone-cold murder a dude, hide the evidence, sabotage the investigation, win the trial and leave alive and alone I wouldn't mind if the games were a little less linear and gave you this option on another ending route.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:45
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The protagonist being a killer or victim could also work for Ch. 1 if they limit the amount of available free-time, so they'd only have to write one or two extra events per character, and since they'd be beginning events, they could be fairly shallow ones. But yeah, I feel like it would work best as an extended bad ending. And since it would be a bad ending, they could also make it possible to end it in the protagonist's execution.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:48
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My wish for the game would be to have a completed set of Free Times cause branching dialogue with that character. Not necessarily to the point of altering who lives and dies, but just some sort of acknowledgement by the protagonist towards their good friend if they got murdered/are the murderer.
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Sep 17, 2016 22:06
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Some people think they actually might be going back to the beta of Danganronpa, "Distrust", where the story would alter based upon whose opinions you side with. Theory goes is you might be able to individually follow the stories of the three characters on the cover, but I have no idea how it would really work or if it's even a feasible amount of work.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:00
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voltcatfish posted:Some people think they actually might be going back to the beta of Danganronpa, "Distrust", where the story would alter based upon whose opinions you side with. Theory goes is you might be able to individually follow the stories of the three characters on the cover, but I have no idea how it would really work or if it's even a feasible amount of work. Something I like about Danganronpa is that there ARE no alternate paths, because it makes every death matter. Like, I love the Zero Escape series, but it was always hard for me to give a poo poo about someone dying when I can save them in another path.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:29
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Speaking of DISTRUST, I didn't realize it got far along to get a "psycho" title, so we've got: DISTRUST: Psycho Shock Danganronpa: Psycho Pop Danganronpa 2: Psycho Tropical Danganronpa V3: Psycho Cool I dunno if Despair Girls got one. I like the naming theme
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Sep 18, 2016 00:37
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if im lazy as balls and just want to read the stories of DR2, UDG and whatever the hell else comes between DR1 and this is there a write up somewhere that tl;dr's the plot for these games?
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Sep 18, 2016 03:38
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Luna Was Here posted:if im lazy as balls and just want to read the stories of DR2, UDG and whatever the hell else comes between DR1 and this is there a write up somewhere that tl;dr's the plot for these games? You could argue with reading a synopsis of the plot of UDG since it wasn't that important to the big picture of DR3 in the end but just reading like a synopsis of DR2 you would not get most of the anime, playing the game(or even watching a walktrough on youtube) would be the best way to go in regards to DR2 I think.
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Sep 18, 2016 03:47
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thank you thread for bringing up DR's conception and thus giving me any excuse of all to post Fukawa's initial design, because bonus Actually Cool Hagakure 
Yinlock fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 05:27
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That Hagakure design could just show up in the last episode and go IT'S ME NAEGI, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG and It'd be the greatest thing.
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Sep 18, 2016 05:30
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It's kinda interesting how just by changing the "genre" of the design the character feels way different, Hagakure up there's a good example. Like Yamada's initial design is super gross but cartoonifying it a bit makes him like a bouncy ball instead of a gross sweaty dude.
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Sep 18, 2016 05:34
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