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Sage Grimm posted:Yeah, it's defaulted to F for easy access if you're using WASD for movement. beats having to open the menu every time, although the way the game bullet-times when you open the menu is also pretty great so it was more of an annoyance than an actual hindrance e: it was F for me btw DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 20:12
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RoboCicero posted:
I don't know if you mean skeletons in general or the skeletons with badass shields, but here's a dark secret* about skeletons that took me a while to figure out: They're all classed as materials for purposes of damage, which is why they're so drat hard to kill with a lot of things. Axes or a special move that's good against chests/walls will cut right through them though.
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Sep 15, 2016 21:40
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Streets of Rogue demo ended too soon  Doctor is some good - having an instakill backstab with a 10s cooldown makes the no-weapons penalty basically useless. Helps that I found a Food Processor, I'm sure. This game is fun.
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Sep 15, 2016 22:34
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i finally tried out 868hack after the longest time looking at it in my steam library it's good, imo, though the tutorial was nearly useless and i couldn't access half the screen until i looked up how to un-fullscreen the game
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Sep 15, 2016 22:41
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Streets of Rogue demo ended too soon I finally got around to trying it myself. What an amazing game! I had been putting it off, because I assumed it was like Streets of Rage, a side stroller beat em up. But its actually more like Zombies Ate My Neighbors the Rogue-like. This is very good! I like the naked changeling class, that can posses people. I don't know if there is any way to give up a body without dying, but I mostly resort to suicide. It is very freeing to know that you have an "extra" life most of the time.
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Sep 16, 2016 00:36
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John Lee posted:I don't know if you mean skeletons in general or the skeletons with badass shields, but here's a dark secret* about skeletons that took me a while to figure out: They're all classed as materials for purposes of damage, which is why they're so drat hard to kill with a lot of things. Axes or a special move that's good against chests/walls will cut right through them though.
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Sep 16, 2016 01:22
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Rutibex posted:I finally got around to trying it myself. What an amazing game! I had been putting it off, because I assumed it was like Streets of Rage, a side stroller beat em up. But its actually more like Zombies Ate My Neighbors the Rogue-like. This is very good! You can jump out of your current body by using that item you start with. It leaves the person you just left dazed long enough for you to slip away, but don't get spotted doing it or you'll get beaten down.
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Sep 16, 2016 01:38
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Should I start with Gearhead1 or Gearhead2?
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Sep 16, 2016 05:11
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I would say Gearhead2, but that is because I started with the isometric combat system. The camera is always looking over your gear's head and you can move about with standard roguelike controls. Gearhead1 had a menu based combat system and a fixed view point. It just never clicked with me, but that may be because I was always mixing up my right and my gear's right.
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Sep 16, 2016 09:11
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Echoing everyone else: Streets of Rogue is pretty fun! Some of the stuff you can do is great, like send in slaves to attack a target and just trigger their collar for easy kills. Or get the slave, free them and they drop the collar and you still have your detonator so you can just drop it where you need bombing. Also I'm never not gonna try to kill low health pursuers with a banana peel.
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Sep 16, 2016 09:32
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Streets of Rogue is definitely onto something special as of that giant Alpha 12 update that landed yesterday----the road to Fall 2017 is long, but it seems primed indeed for the journey. The real deal of late though, of course, is the grand incoming spectacle of The Annual Roguelike Release Party (ARRP) 2016 this weekend! It lacks the spectacle and mass melee of 7DRL---but it has heart. http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=2016_ARRP At least half of those are already primed to be a fine time of it, and there's no telling how many others will show up for the event either as a surprise or entirely by accident. I hope we see some folks patch in from the big Roguelike Celebration Conference this weekend out West! One such project that, perhaps inadvertently, became That Guy who shows up to a party hours early to help set up despite the folks themselves not even being there yet to help: Dungeon Mercenary http://www.schplaf.org/hgames/index.html The influence of Brogue and Sil to an extent is pretty on the sleeve, but it has made steady progress of late on the dev roadmap and is definitely closing in on the prime stage at the least as a bit more variety of depth and some 2D graphics loom long.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:06
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Sep 17, 2016 19:54
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Be careful, you can only wear them once!
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Sep 17, 2016 20:16
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What are the pins?
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Sep 18, 2016 01:00
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John Lee posted:I don't know if you mean skeletons in general or the skeletons with badass shields, but here's a dark secret* about skeletons that took me a while to figure out: They're all classed as materials for purposes of damage, which is why they're so drat hard to kill with a lot of things. Axes or a special move that's good against chests/walls will cut right through them though. Oh my god thank you I should've figured that out by I didn't, I've been trying to get the 2000km ending but around 1000km the enemies start getting really powerful and really fast and I can't figure out how to deal with it (at least in MC: OWH). I have pretty bad luck in video games too and the addition of random undetectable traps in this version is awful.
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Sep 18, 2016 02:03
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 A lively discussion about an important question.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:49
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I did not expect this to be real but then I clicked it and it was. Would recommend clicking.
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Sep 18, 2016 17:06
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Smells of a troll to me. EDIT: Reading further, it's clearly a troll. Come on people, how long have you been on the internet?
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Sep 18, 2016 17:17
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Jack Trades posted:Smells of a troll to me. I dunno, that thread and the OP's last post make probably the best case out of any I've ever heard for finding an alternative name for the genre than "Roguelike". Maybe I'm giving the OP too much credit, but he definitely seemed to be using the points people were making in order to highlight the pointlessness of the genre name.
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Sep 18, 2016 17:53
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I think both could be true? He's a fairly well educated troll.quote:There actually was an attempt do so: That doesn't sound to me like someone actually ignorant of RL. Tell me that knowledge of PDL isn't even more niche than RL was back in the day?
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Sep 18, 2016 18:44
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PDL is the ideal name 
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Sep 18, 2016 18:47
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But what if there isn't a labyrinth? By the Berlin interpretation of PDL... Neither FTL nor Everspace have anything strictly resembling a labyrinth. Clearly, we need to expand the definition to PDS(shooters), PDSS(space sims), PDFPS, PDTPS, PDS and PDXL.
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Sep 18, 2016 18:56
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I can't believe I'm saying it in a roguelike thread but...who cares about exact definitions of genres? Yes, roguelikes are getting more and more unlike Rogue but it's nothing unusual, same happens with every other genre. There are games that we call "FPSes" that don't actually have any guns or shooting in them, and there are games we call "RPGs" that aren't based around roleplaying at all. We've got a million different kinds of game and only a few general names for genres. Of course you won't be able to describe what a game is exactly using just one word. If you need accuracy in describing a game, you might as well compare it to other similar games instead but if you just need to give the person you're talking to a rough idea of what the game is then current genre naming conventions are fine (and it's not like you can change them either).
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Sep 18, 2016 18:59
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To be serious for a moment, genres at their very heart are a marketing tool, as well as a means to gather a community. At the moment, seems like the loose use of roguelike is beneficial to both. At some point, either these new games are going to die out or iterate enough to establish their own genre with a game name simple enough to lazily stuff into the place of rogue. Honestly, if any of these new games had a simpler name like Doom, it'd probably already have replaced the rogue in roguelike. Binding of Isaac and Spelunky aren't that catchy crammed into a generalized genre term. VV: Procedural Death Gungeon is... actually kinda perfect. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 19:04
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Sil-like. e: Procedural Death Gungeon
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Sep 18, 2016 19:06
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What are Roguelikes? ? @ We just don't know.
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Sep 18, 2016 19:50
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Jack Trades posted:I can't believe I'm saying it in a roguelike thread but...who cares about exact definitions of genres? Nobody should, but having a genre name like that causes these arguments and discussions. It's why I'm bloody glad League of Legends coined the MOBA and it stuck, because MOBA is a much better genre title than "Dota-clone".
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Sep 18, 2016 19:56
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Geokinesis posted:What are Roguelikes? It's a difficult question, because games are impossible to describe.
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Sep 18, 2016 20:41
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Geokinesis posted:What are Roguelikes? We need to stop these games until we can figure out what's going on. Make gaming great again!
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Sep 18, 2016 20:57
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Here's my two cents on it: I know Spelunky and FTL and Darkest Dungeon are roguelikes, so to speak, but I'm not going to categorize them as roguelikes in my steam library because I don't turn to them when I want roguelike gameplay, I turn to Dungeonmans or Caves of Qud or TOME or so on. I go to Spelunky when I want a platformer, FTL when I want a strategic space game/to be captain kirk, and to Darkest Dungeon when I want a tense RPG with stress mechanics. Roguelikes, in my head, are top-down turn-based labyrinth explorers that often benefit by using a numpad to play - and some games are firmly this (Caves of Qud) and others aren't (Crypt of the Necrodancer is a corner case, but it's ultimately more roguelike than rhythm game.) It feels like we need two terms here: one to indicate permadeath, generally short campaigns with high lethality rates, and progen content - and a term to indicate top-down turn-based gameplay in said environments. Or something.
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Sep 18, 2016 20:59
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Geokinesis posted:What are Roguelikes? Thanks Geokinesis... Theokinesis.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:18
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Deathgames. FTL is a semi-realtime science-fiction deathgame. Crypt of the Necrodancer is a rhythmic deathgame. Dungeon Crawl is a turn-based tactical deathgame set in a procedural death labyrinth.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:19
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 Lots of cool poo poo went down at Roguelike Celebration and anyone here should check out some of the talk videos. Glenn Wichman said something along the lines of "You know, Words With Friends is a roguelike. It's turn based, tile based, the board is generated procedurally, and it has perma-death!" sooooo put that up your EU pipes there Berlin  The three of them also talked about how "perma-death" is a term they don't like, and they described their thought process pretty well in the video.Biskup gets a lot of flak in this thread and that's because all the data there is on him is his terse and sometimes brusque communication with fans, and his crowdfunding for ADOM which had some interesting choices like being able to buy a section of the printed ADOM source code (laffo) In person? He was a warm and gregarious dude who was absolutely loving thrilled to be at a conference full of RL enthusiasts. Happy about other devs, happy about fans, 0% douche, and just what you would hope you get from someone who's work is part of what defines the genre. The Brogue talk was so slammed I couldn't get in the door. It was madness, I need to watch the video. The DCSS talk made me feel so happy because he drilled on a point I often champion: the search for "optimal" play at the cost of fun is a malady. He talked about how in Crawl you used to be able to cast magic darts at walls or punch bats forever to grind out stats, and how boring that was. But he also talked about how monsters with really dangerous weapons (like a Scimitar of Disrupting) were extra bad news because when they died and dropped their gear, another monster could pick it up if you didn't. This means that players would find dangerous gear that they didn't want or couldn't carry and cart the gear over to a pool of lava to make sure it was destroyed. That felt like "optimal" play but also stupid busywork, and so monsters can no longer pick up gear. Zach and Tarn Adams gave a great talk. Zach is a little mumbly and maybe slightly more reserved on stage, Tarn was really open and did a great job sharing the story of Bay12 and DF. They were totally self-aware, they know they've gone in wild directions sometimes and aren't uptight about it. My favorite quote from Tarn was when he was explaining why cats in taverns keep throwing up and dying, he said "When we added eyelids -- and don't ask us why we added eyelids" To me that spoke volumes, because you could have expected them to say how eyelids are super important to the simulation, and that level of detail is necessary for a TRUE dwarf experience, bla bla bla, but instead you got two friendly guys who knew that some of their poo poo was goofball even though it's fun.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:34
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Scrabble boards aren't generated procedurally, they're the same every time. The pieces on the board are determined by player input, but that's like saying that any game with summoning or reinforcements counts.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:46
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madjackmcmad posted:The DCSS talk made me feel so happy because he drilled on a point I often champion: the search for "optimal" play at the cost of fun is a malady. He talked about how in Crawl you used to be able to cast magic darts at walls or punch bats forever to grind out stats, and how boring that was. But he also talked about how monsters with really dangerous weapons (like a Scimitar of Disrupting) were extra bad news because when they died and dropped their gear, another monster could pick it up if you didn't. This means that players would find dangerous gear that they didn't want or couldn't carry and cart the gear over to a pool of lava to make sure it was destroyed. That felt like "optimal" play but also stupid busywork, and so monsters can no longer pick up gear. yeah this definitely sounds like purestrain Crawl, fixing problems created by your underlying systems by adding new kludges and removing cool things because they have non-intuitive solutions
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Sep 18, 2016 21:47
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Two roguelike definitions exist. Games like rogue, and games with death and procedural generation. My favorite is the former one. I finally beat DoomRL, time to try a build that isn't shotgun.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:54
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Hey if sometimes fighting packs who all have disruption weapons is good, they could just cut out the middle man and spawn them that way.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:yeah this definitely sounds like purestrain Crawl, fixing problems created by your underlying systems by adding new kludges and removing cool things because they have non-intuitive solutions I mean, there are good ways and bad ways to go about it, but like 90% of game design is making sure your game doesn't have lovely-but-optimal playstyles.
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Sep 18, 2016 22:17
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(Semi-serious) genre discussion sometimes seems to be more about anxiety about whether the very specific type of game you like is becoming extinct or less important, or threatened by diffusion. Mostly, genre arguments seem more about labeling the specific aspects games you do like and insisting that they're fundamentally different from ones you don't like as much.
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Sep 18, 2016 22:26
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I mean, there are good ways and bad ways to go about it, but like 90% of game design is making sure your game doesn't have lovely-but-optimal playstyles. Absolutely. The problem with Crawl's skill system, though, is that "learn by doing" skill systems universally suck. Removing victory dancing is putting a bandaid over a severed limb. e: and depending on the implementation it might be even worse; victory dancing at least gives the player control over where the points go
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Sep 18, 2016 22:43
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