|
RestRoomLiterature- posted:And NATO counters...... Whoa, let's not go crazy there Edit: let me explain the reasoning behind those date breaks: -323-565 Roma Start date is fairly obvious, end date coincides with the death of the last great Pan-Roman emperor and precedes: 565-1066 Umma Essentially a really good opportunity to focus on Dar al Islam, not just Europe, and feature some actual Vicky-style demographic influence during a period when demographics were in severe flux; 1066-1648 Fidem Starting the feudal game later makes way more sense, and ending with the Peace of Westphalia marks a convenient turning point from faith-based politics/diplomacy to nation-based politics/diplomacy; also, continuing dynasty-based play into later eras makes more sense than shoehorning random personal union generators into a colonization game 1648-1920 Europa Essentially EU with Pops and way heavier economic and industrial focus 1920-1991 Novus Starts with the most influential event of the 20th century - the aftermath of WWI - and proceeds to a proper Paradox grand strategy game instead of a glorified battle planner. Kulkasha fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Sep 19, 2016 |
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 02:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 03:15 |
|
|
Kulkasha posted:Whoa, let's not go crazy there Yeah it would be really good to have a game where the last part is about colonization where you just end abruptly as soon as you start to kick it off. and a cold war game that ends abruptly in a specific year even though there's no reason why it should end in 91 in a non original timeline game
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 10:10
|
|
|
Mans posted:Yeah it would be really good to have a game where the last part is about colonization where you just end abruptly as soon as you start to kick it off. Endgame CK2 could be a sort of proto-EU4 instead where you focus on what would be the last few steps of CK2 crown authority to transition from "dynastic" to "territorial" and reform from levies to standing army. States that fail to consolidate will fall apart into constituent duchies or OPMs, and you get a sort-of analogue to successful/failed stem duchies. Maybe you have a HRE where Bavaria is a bunch of OPM shitlords and the rhineland is one giant duchy. Or France is Balkanized, etc. For EU4, Past 1750 or so it becomes difficult to adequately model the changes. Colonization sort of precedes stuff like proto industrialization, more sophisticated economies, financial instruments, "multinationals", migration and demographics changes. It feels weird to me that colonizing the new world means you're just painting what is nominally your culture over vast stretches of the world so that by the end of EU4 if you're reasonably successful and have a surplus of monarch points you can turn half of the world your culture easily. I'd like to see a more adequate modeling of the fact that if I drop a few colonists in and around manhattan, it doesn't suddenly mean I have complete ethnic dominance the moment the 1000th colonist is born or steps off a boat. Maybe something like cultural pressure something that ties to your score? The top 3 in each score category (mil/adm/dip) could get unspecified bonuses on top of the basic cultural pressure that is exerted? If you tied it to colonial policies too you could balance the currently no-brainer pick of native coexistence by tying it into less cultural pressure/native assimilation, pursuing a policy the French did which was a couple of trappers and fur traders trading and operating over vast stretches of only nominally "French" territory. With the more restrictive ones meaning more angry natives, but provided you have the guys to put the revolts down, quicker/further cultural spread as a result of your conquistadores killing the natives and making room for Proper Whites. The middle one would be a sort of 50/50 thing where you send single dudes to bang native women. Intermediate cultural pressure, maybe with an event line for creoles or something, some revolts, but less need for lots of military presence and women/men to fill the colonies.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 11:11
|
|
|
Hambilderberglar posted:If you tied it to colonial policies too you could balance the currently no-brainer pick of native coexistence Wait, what? I figured native coexistence was a worthless option except for very small nations, since a single 1000-man mercenary unit can take care of most native rebellions. Is there some hidden benefit to it that the game doesn't tell you about?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 12:12
|
|
|
There's bunch of events tied to each policy that gives different permanent modifiers on the province. The best one is Trading policy if I remember correctly. In the Office MP stream I got +1 goods produced on a gold mine in central america thanks to it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 12:18
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:Wait, what? I figured native coexistence was a worthless option except for very small nations, since a single 1000-man mercenary unit can take care of most native rebellions. Is there some hidden benefit to it that the game doesn't tell you about?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 12:38
|
|
|
Mans posted:Yeah it would be really good to have a game where the last part is about colonization where you just end abruptly as soon as you start to kick it off. God forbid you have a game where dynastic politics are focal past the fall of Constantinople. And end a game right when the Internet takes off
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
Yeah, I usually stick to native repression for the first century or two, then switch to coexistence once that kind of micro starts getting annoying. Early on it's still manageable and you can always use mil points to clear a province's natives completely if you're gonna need those troops elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 14:19
|
|
|
Always native coexistance all the time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 15:26
|
|
|
Tying any kind of epoch/mechanic change to a specific year rather than to technological development within the game itself is bad and railroading. Rather than having a game divided into defined eras, the gameplay should just gradually evolve over time, so instead of "Oh I guess it's 1648 time for my dynasty screen to disappear" you just notice that either your dynasty members are steadily getting less and less important in how you actually run your empire and engage with other countries, or you start thinking that it would be a pretty great advantage to get rid of dynastic rule altogether and switch to something better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 15:44
|
|
|
vyelkin posted:Tying any kind of epoch/mechanic change to a specific year rather than to technological development within the game itself is bad and railroading. Rather than having a game divided into defined eras, the gameplay should just gradually evolve over time, so instead of "Oh I guess it's 1648 time for my dynasty screen to disappear" you just notice that either your dynasty members are steadily getting less and less important in how you actually run your empire and engage with other countries, or you start thinking that it would be a pretty great advantage to get rid of dynastic rule altogether and switch to something better. Then we would have one long continuous megagame which would be hard to make but would be totally awesome 
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 15:57
|
|
|
It would suck because by the time you get to the colonisation part you've already dominated Europe and the rest of the game would just be a boring slog you've already won. See also: converting CK2 games to EU4
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 16:00
|
|
|
Elman posted:Yeah, I usually stick to native repression for the first century or two, then switch to coexistence once that kind of micro starts getting annoying. Early on it's still manageable and you can always use mil points to clear a province's natives completely if you're gonna need those troops elsewhere. See this is what I always plan to do but then I can never justify it to myself to lose the stability even when it'd make sense. If I'm picking exploration first I do nearly always go repression at the start though, those extra 20 settlers feel huge in the tropical land you normally start colonizing in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 16:12
|
|
|
The main nation I colonize with has been Norway and there it is much better to take coexistence as you need all the troops back home to keep Sweden off your back.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 16:32
|
|
|
Hryme posted:The main nation I colonize with has been Norway and there it is much better to take coexistence as you need all the troops back home to keep Sweden off your back. I personally like starting off with the +20 colonists and then later in the game once I have better tech and whatnot to increase settler growth other ways I will switch it over to the hands-off option when I have a +stab event or extra admin or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 16:37
|
|
|
If I'm in SE Asia and colonizing I'll take the +20 colonist policy until the sub-1000 native provinces run out. Anything under that it's easiest to attack them for ~5 or so mil points per colony. It saves you a bunch of money in maintenance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 17:07
|
|
|
Paradox titles should be broken up like this: 2000 BC to 2999 AD Mandate of Heaven Five thousand unbroken years of civilization, Xia dynasty through P.R.C.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 21:14
|
|
|
China would be loving pissed if you only started in 2000BC.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 21:36
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
I would like a Paradox game that spans the golden age of human civilization, 7197 BC to 3898 BC
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
End bosses could be Scotland and Sri Lanka
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
Vivian Darkbloom posted:Paradox titles should be broken up like this: I'd play that
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
Ctrl F'ing in Let's Play didn't pop it up -- is there an EU4 goon LP somewhere? Also, are there other LPs or tutorials you might recommend? I've watched some of quill18s stuff but am looking for others, especially using the dlc. e: Found the SA one. Still down for any other rec's! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3785813 Fusion Restaurant fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
Personally I want an ancient history game going from around 500 BC or something to the end of the roman republic I want to play Peloponnesian Wars
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 00:09
|
|
|
There's always Rome Total War for Rome and the Wrath of Sparta expansion campaign for the Peloponnesian War.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Noob with a question about diplo-annexing here. I'm Byzantium and have reclaimed most of Anatolia, the Balkans and Holy Land. But my admin tech is far behind because of all the points spent coring provinces as I capture them (and then coring them again when I make states). Which gives me tons of corruption in addition to falling behind the other major players in tech/ideas. I just heard of diplo-annexing but am not sure that I understand it. Is the basic idea that I attack Hungary in a war, make it spit out Croatia as an independent country, wait for the truce timer to run out, attack Croatia and make it my vassal, and then wait another 10 years for me to absorb the vassal (assuming I get it to +190 opinion)? That seems like a very long process, and people talk about diplo-annexing like it's the bees knees, so I fear/hope I may be missing something. Is there any way aside from diplo-annexing (and the admin idea group) to alleviate the huge drain of conquest on your admin points?
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:13
|
|
|
It's a long process but it eats diplo points only and who gives a gently caress about those. Also it is insanely easy to get to 190. So the ten year timer is your only obstacle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:17
|
|
|
The Little Kielbasa posted:Noob with a question about diplo-annexing here. Diplo-annexing is the way to go but there are way easier ways to do it than the method you described: Top ways to get a vassal: a) release a country in war, that country starts out with a huge relations boost with you for having released them. Alliance, royal marriage, improve relations, trade power if you need it, vassalize. b) take a bunch of provinces from someone, then instead of coring them release a vassal that has cores on those provinces c) force-vassalize someone in a war d) release a vassal from provinces you don't like The general idea behind diplo-vassalizing and annexing as a way to conserve admin points is that when you go to war, instead of taking land for yourself, you give it to your vassal, either by giving it directly in the peace deal or by taking it for yourself and then giving them the provinces afterwards (first way is better though). Wait a few years and your vassal will use their own admin points to core those provinces. Do this a few times and you'll build up a nice sizable vassal state sitting on one of your borders. Then when you diplo-annex your vassal you use diplo points to do so. So you're taking and coring territory using diplo points instead of admin ones. It really is the bee's knees when it comes to conquering because admin points are way more valuable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:21
|
|
|
e: What he said ^^^^ You mostly have it, but there's a little more to it than that. To use your Croatia example, after vassalizing them you can feed them more provinces in future wars, such as from Hungary or maybe some Balkan provinces you don't immediately want for yourself. Then afterwards you can annex for a whole bunch of territory with no Aggressive Expansion and a bunch of cores without spending Adm points for them. Of course the more development the vassal has, the more Dip points you're spending and the more time it takes to annex. But the important thing is that you're spending Dip and not Adm points. Influence Ideas are a big help if you do this a lot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:27
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:It's a long process but it eats diplo points only and who gives a gently caress about those. Also it is insanely easy to get to 190. So the ten year timer is your only obstacle. I've found that at least when you start with small nations, diplo power is a little more valuable now because you need to aggressively make sure your tech is within the range to avoid corruption until you're in a position to fix your economic base (you also can't do the thing you used to do where you just blindly burn through idea groups and then resume tech). I mostly just view diplo-annexing as a way to convert diplo into admin, and pick depending on which is tighter (I prefer to diplo-annex, but if I'm trying to rush Exploration Ideas or get to Diplo Tech 7 for colonial range I'll just annex). Admin is generally way more valuable, but there are times where it's preferable to burn it. Annexing also becomes more viable when you start getting admin ideas and such. DIplo-annexing also has other benefits because vassals generally contribute more forces than owning the land directly, especially since autonomy needs to tick down before you get the full force limit. Not to mention you pay manpower fighting the odd rebels depending on the exact distribution of separatists and whatnot. Does refusing to enact the last reichsreform while emperor still give you the broken ability to vassalize anyone without them taking up a diplomatic reputation slot or being able to revolt? Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Sep 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:34
|
|
|
You could also feed them orthodox or muslim provinces and they'll convert them for you (if they can). Also, if Hungary still owns Croatian cores you can conquer and feed them those and you won't get as much Aggressive Expansion from it. Vassal cores are great, you can conquer a formerly big country and restore their former glory, or conquer a few provinces of a potential country like Persia and release them (they'll own cores in all Persian land). Elman fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Sep 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:41
|
|
|
If you think diplo points aren't valuable, you aren't integrating enough vassals and are probably directly annexing too much. They're not really any worse than the other points - often they're more limiting than the other two for non-Europeans.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
As someone who doesn't play Euros much nah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
The Little Kielbasa posted:Noob with a question about diplo-annexing here. In addition to what everyone else said I just want to highlight that you should instead of releasing then attacking Croatia, you should annex provinces that comprise Croatia, release them as a vassal instead of coring them, and if needed in future wars transfer occupation of land and have them annex it instead until it hits a size you want. In addition to the tradeoff of spending more time to use diplo points instead of admin, running vassals allows them to deal with the unrest and conversion. Also I'm not 100% sure but I find vassals are a nice force multiplier especially before your mil ideas get up and running- it seems like you + a vassal tends to have more raw forcelimit than you controlling the land yourself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 04:25
|
|
|
To add on to other people. Marches in foreign culture/different religion zones that you never plan to annex can be pretty powerful. You can make them giant and they will have a very nice force limit size.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 04:52
|
|
|
I also find vassals to be nice for cleaning up random bullshit that I don't feel like actually getting an army and marching it around to do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
Just had a British colonial Mexico revolt against GB and get its rear end kicked. As punishment GB gave one of British Mexico's provinces to the Netherlands. I can see how the game arrived at that idea (Dutch West Indies had a claim on the province) but I do kind of feel like colonial overlords shouldn't give away their defeated, rebellious colonies to foreign powers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:To add on to other people. Marches in foreign culture/different religion zones that you never plan to annex can be pretty powerful. You can make them giant and they will have a very nice force limit size. Tsyni posted:never plan to annex 
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 15:23
|
|
|
 The Papal State is a lot of fun.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
Thanks a million for the explanations, it really opened up the game for me and would've taken forever to figure that all out myself. Diplo-annexing is indeed the bee's knees.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 03:15 |
|
|
Hungary is usually a great country to have as a vassal, just wait until Poland and Austria beat them down below 100% war score cost, force vassalize them then use the retake core cb to get the land back for only one-quarter the AE. If you're playing outside of Europe Timurids, Persia, and the Indian kingdoms are similar. In a game I'm playing now France beat England down to two provinces so I force-vassalized them with no cb and then took all that land back for less than 50 AE with everyone except for France.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2016 20:43
|
|