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Got Skin Games with my Audible credit. Enjoying it, even if it isn't my favorite Dresden. There's a part where Murphy mentions that Mister always runs from the room whenever Andi shows up. Kind of makes me wonder if she's infected. Guess we'll find out in another year.Scorchy posted:So the thread was recommending Mercy Thompson/Patricia Briggs. I'm like 120 pages into the first book. I haven't read the series yet, but I'm always hungry for good werewolf stuff. What about it don't you like? Does it fall into the typical "Alpha is Alpha ( it is always capitalized ) because Alpha is the strongest!", along with a whole lotta dick swinging? It's always hard for me to get into books with power struggles like that where the power doesn't actually seem to mean anything. They just want it because it's there. The guy in charge ( or his rival, depending on who's the hero ) is either a conniving ( but stupid ) villain, or a thuggish bully.
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Sep 19, 2016 04:33
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I haven't read the series yet, but I'm always hungry for good werewolf stuff. What about it don't you like? Does it fall into the typical "Alpha is Alpha ( it is always capitalized ) because Alpha is the strongest!", along with a whole lotta dick swinging? I don't know what's suppose to be typical for this stuff but the werewolves seem to be mostly macho violent misogynists, but are also dreamy-looking and compete with each other for the submissive heroine. The one exception happens to be her gay werewolf best friend. So I don't know. I think I'm feeling whatever women feel when they have to suffer through male writers penning lousy female characters, except the other way around.
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Sep 19, 2016 06:41
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Scorchy posted:I don't know what's suppose to be typical for this stuff but the werewolves seem to be mostly macho violent misogynists, but are also dreamy-looking and compete with each other for the submissive heroine. The one exception happens to be her gay werewolf best friend. So I don't know. I think I'm feeling whatever women feel when they have to suffer through male writers penning lousy female characters, except the other way around. For me, what makes it such a trial to deal with werewolf fiction is that the whole 'alpha male' shitfest is based on bad science—scientists observed back in the 50s how wolves behaved in captivity whenever a new wolf was introduced to a pack, and presumed that that's how wolves work in the wild as well. The reality is, wolf packs are actually a lot closer to the 'nuclear family' ideal than human families tend to be, with a mated pair forming the backbone and a few other adults (either siblings or adult children of the mated pair) and, for a while, the latest litter of pups. So that's my effortpost on why most werewolf fiction is Bad™, I guess. 
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Sep 19, 2016 10:02
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Scorchy posted:I don't know what's suppose to be typical for this stuff but the werewolves seem to be mostly macho violent misogynists, but are also dreamy-looking and compete with each other for the submissive heroine. The one exception happens to be her gay werewolf best friend. So I don't know. I think I'm feeling whatever women feel when they have to suffer through male writers penning lousy female characters, except the other way around. This actually turns into one of the strengths of the series. Alpha is described much better as she gets better and the world becomes more fully realized, and pack structure becomes an interesting, not off-putting, part of the stories. The Alpha/Omega spinoff series is good for that reason. Get past the first book. You'll look back on it as ok. The whole, "oh, my, which alpha do I love, or is it the vampire" never coalesces the way I feared it might. It looked like she was thinking of paranormal romance, but as she wrote the stories just didn't go there. Her take on the fae is the best I've read, beating Jim's by a long shot.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:17
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Wait are we really on GRRM time now  ?
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Sep 19, 2016 15:33
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Sounds interesting. Gonna have to look into it, even if the first book seems a little... something. Audible's current sale has both Midnight Riot ( Rivers of London, book 1 ), and the first Alex Verus book. They're five bones a pop, and I grabbed both. Good as time as any to jump in if anyone's thinking of checking them out.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:36
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Got Skin Games with my Audible credit. Enjoying it, even if it isn't my favorite Dresden. There's a part where Murphy mentions that Mister always runs from the room whenever Andi shows up. Kind of makes me wonder if she's infected. Guess we'll find out in another year. Interesting, I just assumed that was sort of a dog vs cat type situation, but that is definitely a possibility.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:44
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Sounds interesting. Gonna have to look into it, even if the first book seems a little... something. The bar set by the narrator of Rivers of London books is going to ruin most of the other urban fantasy narrators for you.
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Sep 19, 2016 16:23
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Got Skin Games with my Audible credit. Enjoying it, even if it isn't my favorite Dresden. There's a part where Murphy mentions that Mister always runs from the room whenever Andi shows up. Kind of makes me wonder if she's infected. Guess we'll find out in another year. I've avoided the Mercy Thompson series because it supposedly has some pretty lovely gender dynamics, despite having a female main character who does lots of things. The nice thing about the Kate Daniels series regarding Alpha nonsense is that even though it has like a dozen Alpha shapeshifters and her love interest is the local Alpha of Alphas, being an outsider who is pretty powerful in her own right Kate gets to point out shapeshifter bullshit and laugh.
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Sep 19, 2016 16:30
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Wade Wilson posted:The bar set by the narrator of Rivers of London books is going to ruin most of the other urban fantasy narrators for you. James Marsters already did that.  About Mister, I didn't think it was that because Mister has interacted with supernatural critters without flipping out before. In Ghost Story, he runs into the room when Will and Georgia are right there. It just struck me as odd because it was mentioned about the same time Butters tells Harry that Will and Georgia were nearly killed.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:30
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Mars4523 posted:I figured that was because she's a giant murdery dog. I don't remember any issue with "lovely gender dynamics," honestly. The main objection I can think of is an event occurs in a later book that could trigger people: rape. Mercy's character operates the same way as you describe the Kate Daniels character: she's an outsider that can challenge the wolves and call them on their bullshit (though she marries the local alpha, not the "alpha of alphas").
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Sep 19, 2016 17:33
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:James Marsters already did that. In one of the short stories, Andi and Kirby chase Mister around Harry's apartment, so it could just be that.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:36
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:James Marsters already did that. I know everyone loves Marsters in this thread, but Kobna Holdbrook-Smith does a much better job with the source material. Too many books had Marsters sounding like he was bored and wanted to be anywhere but there reading those books.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:43
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Something I just thought of that's probably come up before now. Marcone paid to have the Shroud of Turin stolen so he could attempt to use its healing powers. Now that Harry has the real thing stored in Demonreach, what are the odds that it might come up again soon as an offer for Marcone's assistance in something big later on down the line?
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Sep 20, 2016 06:24
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Vicissitude posted:Something I just thought of that's probably come up before now. Marcone paid to have the Shroud of Turin stolen so he could attempt to use its healing powers. Now that Harry has the real thing stored in Demonreach, what are the odds that it might come up again soon as an offer for Marcone's assistance in something big later on down the line? What would he use it for? It was pretty much understood that if it didn't work when he tried it, it wasn't going to work period.
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Sep 20, 2016 15:10
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flosofl posted:What would he use it for? It was pretty much understood that if it didn't work when he tried it, it wasn't going to work period. The fake shroud had power because it was an article of great religious importance for thousands of people. The real shroud absorbed the blood of the son of God. I think we're looking at a different power level by an order of magnitude. That said, faith magic in-universe is described in pretty hinky terms and whether it works seems to rely both on the level of belief of the human user and the will of the higher power being petitioned. I've been reading the Word of Jim thread over at the official forums and there's some interesting stuff in there about character background and future plans. We're apparently getting a Star Trek style mirror universe/for want of a nail story in the next book or three. Melanion fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 15:47
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Melanion posted:I've been reading the Word of Jim thread over at the official forums and there's some interesting stuff in there about character background and future plans. We're apparently getting a Star Trek style mirror universe/for want of a nail story in the next book or three. What if setting the building on fire WAS Harry's fault?
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Sep 20, 2016 19:12
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Melanion posted:The fake shroud had power because it was an article of great religious importance for thousands of people. The real shroud absorbed the blood of the son of God. I think we're looking at a different power level by an order of magnitude. That said, faith magic in-universe is described in pretty hinky terms and whether it works seems to rely both on the level of belief of the human user and the will of the higher power being petitioned. Yeah, it's been confirmed for a long time. It's likely to also be the time travel book, since the mirrorverse will be split from a specific decision Harry made in his past. I'm hoping it will be good, because I love time travel stories. On the other hand, I love heists, too, and while I loved Skin Game as a book, it was decidedly not a heist. Rather, it was a dungeon crawl.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:15
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I'm already forgetting details from the read (It's a long loving thread) but I'm pretty sure one of the interviews said it dealt with Harry's choice at the end of Grave Peril. I'm hoping we're going to see Harry Dresden, VAMPIRE LORD I think it's all but guaranteed to involve time travel in some way since the setup seems perfect for it and Butcher has confirmed that Harry is going to break all seven laws of magic before this is over.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:40
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Unfortunately, getting there is going to a bitch now that we're in GRRM time.
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Sep 20, 2016 20:46
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Melanion posted:I'm already forgetting details from the read (It's a long loving thread) but I'm pretty sure one of the interviews said it dealt with Harry's choice at the end of Grave Peril. gently caress that. It's probably going to be something far more likely to twist/break Harry in further situations. MirrorMirror Harry took the Leanansidhe up on the deal she offers him at the very beginning of the novel, and she twists him far more rapidly than being the Winter Knight will be able to do on it's own.
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Sep 20, 2016 20:56
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Wade Wilson posted:gently caress that. It's probably going to be something far more likely to twist/break Harry in further situations. Makes sense. Then Harry gets a look up close of what he may be down the road on his current path.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:03
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rndmnmbr posted:Unfortunately, getting there is going to a bitch now that we're in GRRM time. This is loving stupid. Jim and GRRM both published a new book in July 2011. Since then, Jim has published three additional novels (two Dresden novels). How, in any conceivable way other than "I'm a whiny baby that demands things NOWNOWNOWNOWNOWNOW" can Jim be considered in "GRRM time?" Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 21:05
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I think it's less Jim in particular and more "Nobody that writes urban fantasy worth reading has published a book since I finished everything they've all written". Jim just catches more of it here because he gets top billing in this thread.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:14
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Well the good news is that the next Peter Grant book is out in a month and a half. And the next Daniel Faust book is out in less than two weeks, with the third Harmony Black book probably not that far behind!
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Sep 20, 2016 21:17
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Wade Wilson posted:I think it's less Jim in particular and more "Nobody that writes urban fantasy worth reading has published a book since I finished everything they've all written". I'm reading The Unnoticeables by Robert Brockway right now and it's pretty good and its sequel just came out.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:45
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Ornamented Death posted:This is loving stupid. And honestly to be fair to GRRM, dance with dragons is 100k words longer than skin game and cold days combined, while being significantly more intricate. I would be surprised if Winds of Winter wasn't longer than those two + aeronauts windlass as well. GRRM ran into problems because he doesnt keep notes and didn't plot out a lot of stuff beforehand, but he's actually not outrageously slow. The main issue with the Dance delay was that he only talked about pizza and Wildcards for 10 years and would post poo poo like "NEW BOOK UPDATE!!!!!! : wildcards volume 99 is out also do you guys like football"
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Sep 20, 2016 22:14
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Yeah to be clear, I don't really have a problem with how long GRRM takes to write his books, either.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:18
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I know Jim's talked a bit more about what Mirror Mirror's going to have in it, but I can't remember any of the new information, and it's hard to tell what's genuine. Still, you can see he's already set up a series of things that will probably come into play. Going back through the novels and speculating about what-ifs and what might be coming up next is half the fun.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:26
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I'm strongly leaning toward OUR Harry Dresden being the evil goatee-wearing version in Mirror Mirror. It makes way more thematic sense that Alternate Harry comes across, meets our Harry and is horrified by all the lovely things that our Harry has done - killing Susan, becoming the Winter Knight, picking up a coin, all the torture and killing and so on... It also lets our Harry see how much better of a person he could have been, which is huge fuel for his angst-fires. I still think that the decision difference is Harry saying, out loud to Michael and then to Susan, that he loved Susan. It's a small but important difference because without him saying he loved Susan she goes full vamp and things cascade badly from there. Which is also why I'm pretty sure Harry himself kicks off the apocalypse - it's thematically appropriate that Harry, acting for his own interests, causes massive ramifications. He gets out of the mantle of the Winter Knight, which destabilizes Winter, which allows the Outer Gates to be breached and poo poo goes south all because Harry wanted to get out of his obligation. Point is Harry Dresden is kind of a dick.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:29
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Mortanis posted:I'm strongly leaning toward OUR Harry Dresden being the evil goatee-wearing version in Mirror Mirror. It makes way more thematic sense that Alternate Harry comes across, meets our Harry and is horrified by all the lovely things that our Harry has done - killing Susan, becoming the Winter Knight, picking up a coin, all the torture and killing and so on... It also lets our Harry see how much better of a person he could have been, which is huge fuel for his angst-fires. That would be the freakin' best, especially if there's a lot of buildup with our Harry preparing to meet Ultimate Evil Harry. Then the dude comes through and he's a saint. (Bonus points if Harry's friends all like Alt-Harry more than the real one.)
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Sep 20, 2016 22:43
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Bonus BONUS points of Murphy hooks up with Alt-Harry.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:48
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I think that'd honestly just be depressing. Harry has hosed up but he tries his best and it'd be a lovely book to spend a few hundred pages rubbing his nose in all of the times he wasn't good enough (because he was put in a situation where it was completely impossible to be good enough).
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Sep 20, 2016 22:52
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Magres posted:I think that'd honestly just be depressing. Harry has hosed up but he tries his best and it'd be a lovely book to spend a few hundred pages rubbing his nose in all of the times he wasn't good enough (because he was put in a situation where it was completely impossible to be good enough). It would be incredibly lovely for harry, you say? 100% confirmed to happen
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Sep 20, 2016 22:57
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Magres posted:I think that'd honestly just be depressing. Harry has hosed up but he tries his best and it'd be a lovely book to spend a few hundred pages rubbing his nose in all of the times he wasn't good enough (because he was put in a situation where it was completely impossible to be good enough). That could be a decent growth moment though, if he starts beating himself up and then has to come to terms with the fact that sometimes, in the heat of the moment and with limited information, people (including him) just make lovely decisions and you have to live with it and move on. Like he ends up looking at alt-Harry and going, "Hey, I hosed up, and I can't be that guy -- but I can be the best Harry I can be."
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Sep 20, 2016 23:27
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Mars4523 posted:
Hm. I gotta say, the gender dynamics are explored, and resolved, in a pleasing way. Initially, female wolves are automatically at the end of the dominance order (or share the order of their mate, if they have one) (few female wolves, protected, yada yada yada), but it's always dealt with as a sore point for everyone involved, and they basically say gently caress it in the local pack and discard it as stupid. The leads of both series in the universe are powerful women outside the normal pack hierarchy, and leaders de facto as a result.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:32
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Mortanis posted:Which is also why I'm pretty sure Harry himself kicks off the apocalypse - it's thematically appropriate that Harry, acting for his own interests, causes massive ramifications. He gets out of the mantle of the Winter Knight, which destabilizes Winter, which allows the Outer Gates to be breached and poo poo goes south all because Harry wanted to get out of his obligation. I think it's been confirmed that the Mirror Mirror decision was from book 3, and for that reason, I think the decision is that Harry tells Susan he loves her, or even proposes to her. And I think this shakes out in such a way that the Red Court doesn't go to war with The White Council, not until they're good and ready to spring the trap. Harry has shown that he's more afraid of losing his humanity than his life. That's why he's always played hardball with the supernatural things that came offering him power- and we also saw how quickly that went out the window when the right motive presented itself. I think that the Red Court smears the White Council, and that Harry is forced to take up his coin to save Susan and/or himself. This brings him into conflict with the Knights, his friends, and the Fae ( Mab does not like Nic, and Tessa moved against Arctis Tor, after all ). Harry has a bad time. As for the Winter Knight thing, I don't think so. Harry was willing to die in Dead Beat just so that Morgan would have a shot at stopping Cowl. I don't think he'd flush the world down the toilet like that. But I do think it will be changing hands. At the end of Cold Days, Thunder Klaus tells Harry that Halloween is a time where masks and mantles can change hands... but I don't think Harry will let the power go unless he's sure it is going to the right person, especially not with Molly being The Winter Lady. I would be willing to bet that one of Harry's allies becomes the next Winter Knight sometime soonish.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:44
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:
Murphy, you think?
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Sep 21, 2016 00:48
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Vicissitude posted:Murphy, you think? I actually wonder if it wouldn't be Michael. Then he'd be protecting his daughter, Michael is perhaps the one person who the Winter Knight mantle would have a hard time corruption, he's already been a knight and shown his worth, and yet there's just enough there for it to be a serious risk and for Harry to loathe himself for it in traditional Harry fashion.
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Sep 21, 2016 01:07
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Doesn't passing a Mantle usually involve dying? At least when it comes to the Summer and Winter courts.
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Sep 21, 2016 01:13
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