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dad phoenix is good, disbarred mastermind hobo nick is bad
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Sep 19, 2016 22:32
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Cake Attack posted:dad phoenix is good, disbarred mastermind hobo nick is bad I agree. Though I think hobo Nick would've been at least sort of fun if they got rid of the mastermind part. I kind of enjoy him messing with Apollo in cases 2 and 3.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:34
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"As a father, I have to say I'm very concerned that you're still waving around my daughter's panties."
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Sep 19, 2016 22:39
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6.3 is probably the best non-final case in the entire series, what a ride
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Sep 19, 2016 22:43
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I thought you guys were talking about Greyerl when you said Jean, who was yet another "surprise they're a chick" character. She was also handled in kind of an eyerolling fashion, though less so than Robin. Her voice literally changes at the reveal for no discernible reason. Capcom's not very good at these characters, are they?
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Sep 19, 2016 22:48
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Pollyanna posted:I thought you guys were talking about Greyerl when you said Jean, who was yet another "surprise they're a chick" character. She was also handled in kind of an eyerolling fashion, though less so than Robin. Her voice literally changes at the reveal for no discernible reason. Capcom's not very good at these characters, are they? While nothing in PW v Layton is interesting past the first case, it sure makes a lot more sense to use that trope in a (fake) medieval society. Plus I just interpreted it as her voice changing due to no longer faking a boy's voice. Occam's razor and all.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:53
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Beat it. That was a Good Game. Playtime was 21:34. I was less wowed by Case 5 as a whole, maybe since I guessed a number of the twists ahead of time. It was a very good case, but it doesn't beat 2-4 or 3-5 for me. Did not call the twist about Ga'ran being unable to channel from the start. Some of them you simply didn't have the information to call, though, like the photo actually being 15 years old instead of 23, but I strongly suspected Rayfa wasn't Ga'ran's for quite a while. Also disappointed with the final breakdown - they're usually just more incredible than that. Roger Retinz/Mr. Reus had the best breakdown of the game, honestly. Nahyuta was...kinda there, all game? There's really not too much to say about him, he wasn't terribly interesting. Dhurke is a humorously bad dad but a super cool guy overall and his last bit was kickass. Datz was awesome all game. Ema is cute and good and her theme is wonderful and I hope there is more Ema in the future, although Gumshoe really needs to show up again already  . The music was overall some of the best in the series, especially investigation themes. The pun game was insanely On Point and Inga's full name was just absolutely ridiculous and wonderful.  Now I can reread the thread and enjoy people's reactions and any things I missed out on. I'll probably have more thoughts on it as I do.
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Sep 20, 2016 00:19
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I heard one of the versions of the Trilogy was hosed beyond belief; which one is it?
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Sep 20, 2016 02:00
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Alabaster White posted:I heard one of the versions of the Trilogy was hosed beyond belief; which one is it? iOS was hosed beyond belief, 3DS version is based on the iOS version but fixes every problem.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:05
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Well I still think some of the redone sprites look not great but otherwise yes the 3DS version is fine and the most convenient way to get those games these days.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:13
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any word on when the DLC case is coming out?
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Sep 20, 2016 02:16
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Carlosologist posted:any word on when the DLC case is coming out? September 29th.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:18
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NRVNQSR posted:September 29th. Super! I can't wait to see Larry return and how Athena reacts to the living contradiction
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Sep 20, 2016 02:20
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Regy Rusty posted:Well I still think some of the redone sprites look not great but otherwise yes the 3DS version is fine and the most convenient way to get those games these days. Yeah it looks weird because it uses official artwork for characters but uses gameboy animations so it all looks pretty awkward. That said, everything else is unchanged and I think some typos were fixed???? and it's probably the best price point for a fantastic trilogy.
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Sep 20, 2016 03:25
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cloofish posted:Yeah it looks weird because it uses official artwork for characters but uses gameboy animations so it all looks pretty awkward. That said, everything else is unchanged and I think some typos were fixed???? and it's probably the best price point for a fantastic trilogy. Yep all typos from the iOS version were fixed and many from the original trilogy as well. Including the most famous of all: "the miracle never happen" The worst sin committed by the rerelease however is that they switched Turner Grey to pushing up his glasses with his index finger instead of his middle finger. Disgusting
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Sep 20, 2016 04:14
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Lurdiak posted:It was very obvious what was going on despite the attempts of localizers. I wasn't bothered by him because I thought he was a fascinatingly weird character, being a flamboyantly gay ex-con that wanted to be a chef but was total poo poo at it. It's unfortunate to look back on now, but we forget how much less enlightened most of us were even ten years ago. Robin Newman's character is a product of Japan obviously not understanding transsexuality at all, and making fumbling stabs at depicting it, plus the Ace Attorney writers being in love with CRAZY TWISTS sometimes to their own detriment. It's clear from the localization blog that the game writers just throw crazy poo poo at the wall, and take their favorite nutty things to put in the game. Sometimes it gets having a drone testify in court, and sometimes it gets them stumbling into a landmine of insensitivity. also parents making their daughter pretend to be a boy for the sake of her legal career makes a shred of sense in Japanese culture, but the last time it would've made any sense in the US is, I dunno, the early 80's maybe. I was writing a story with a teenage boy character that turns out to be a girl raised male by her hyper-macho survivalist father, but thought better of it because of how it might come off. It might be good to have a moratorium on stories featuring characters that are almost but not really trans, and just have actual trans characters.
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Sep 20, 2016 04:48
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End game spoilers I had guessed that Inga had prosopagnosia through the notepad, but I thought that perhaps even Ga'ran had it, thus suggesting that she could not channel, and that Rayfa was taken as her daughter because the two of them would have had more kids that wouldn't be able to channel. And that this would somehow be used as evidence. I had it all figured out... ... Except, I have no idea where I got that from, and for some reason, I was waiting for that double reveal the entire time. Anyway, turns out she just can't channel. Still a fantastic game. First game where you have defend a GHOST 
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Sep 20, 2016 04:54
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Regy Rusty posted:Yep all typos from the iOS version were fixed and many from the original trilogy as well. Including the most famous of all: "the miracle never happen" Unforgivable
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Sep 20, 2016 05:02
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What was insensitive about the Newmann twist other than the fact that we didn't get to out a transperson like some people seemed to want?
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Sep 20, 2016 05:02
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(Case 5 Day 2) Honestly, when I saw the notepad of Inga's descriptions, I thought they were going to set up a reveal that he was intending to use his underlings to frame the members of the main cast by dressing up one of his goons as himself, and killing him while he had a "view" of the (disguised) person(s) mentioned in the note before they would be called in for the hostage exchange. I was fully expecting him to be revealed to be alive in the course of the trial up until a bit after the seance proper.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:What was insensitive about the Newmann twist other than the fact that we didn't get to out a transperson like some people seemed to want? Like, you know, maybe not have such a twist at all? It's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. Outing a transperson would be bad (or at least absurdly hard to do sensitively, especially in a series as lighthearted and wacky as AA), but going the "person is secretly the other gender" route just leads to the other problems we've been talking about like trans erasure and reinforcing the notion that a person's birth sex is their real gender. I like Robin's overall schtick with the finger wagging and the high strung-ness, it's cute and funny, but it's not that I want her to be trans, it's that it's not really territory for a wacky reveal in the first place. E: Honestly, they could've kept the same personality twist if she was always a girl, but just really serious and fiery until it turned out she wanted to be a flamboyantly feminine sculptor instead of a prosecutor. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 05:23
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Lurdiak posted:A general rule I've heard from everyone who ever worked on anything in 3D is that making a new model takes for-loving ever and that's why a bunch of early CG tv shows had so few characters. The easy part is animating them once you've built the rig. I assume this holds true even today. Another thing to consider is the use of 3D models that function and look like 2D sprites, ie. snapping from one pose from another instead of animating the transition so that the end result is identical to how sprites behave, like in the new Guilty Gear game. I don't think this applies as much to the new AA games though since there's a lot less animations.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:30
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Spatula City posted:Robin Newman's character is a product of Japan obviously not understanding transsexuality at all, and making fumbling stabs at depicting it, plus the Ace Attorney writers being in love with CRAZY TWISTS sometimes to their own detriment.
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Sep 20, 2016 06:33
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Irony Be My Shield posted:What was insensitive about the Newmann twist other than the fact that we didn't get to out a transperson like some people seemed to want? I'm not entirely sure, but then, I'm not trans, and I know for a fact a number of trans people were irritated with the whole thing. Do we as cisgendered people actually have the right to argue with them taking umbrage at a gender reveal like that being used as a cheap plot twist? I don't think so. The issue is, as I said, that we need a moratorium on plotlines with characters that seem almost but not quite trans, but it's not really American media with that problem. Japanese media for some reason FUCKIN' LOVES IT. There's this otherwise fantastic manga called the Liar Game that poorly handles a character who is probably transgendered, but first shock revealed to be a crossdresser before the author changes their mind and decides, oh no, they're totally trans. but for some reason keeps having the protagonist call her "Mister".
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Sep 20, 2016 06:35
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My main bug about Robin is that Japan apparently has some really weird notions on what constitutes hypermasculinity.
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Sep 20, 2016 06:49
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They have peculiar notions about gender. Homosexuality is mostly incomprehensible to them, so they treat it largely as either comic relief or SECRET SHAME. At least, judging by their media that comes here. and sometimes they come close to possibly suggesting homosexuality, but can't pull the trigger, and weird things happen (coughPersona4cough).
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Sep 20, 2016 06:52
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Spatula City posted:I'm not entirely sure, but then, I'm not trans, and I know for a fact a number of trans people were irritated with the whole thing. Do we as cisgendered people actually have the right to argue with them taking umbrage at a gender reveal like that being used as a cheap plot twist? I don't think so. Also, this particular series doesn't really care about sexuality as such, does it? Like, orientation-wise, for instance, we know next to nothing about the main characters except that Phoenix had a girlfriend way back in college. (And that's, I think, a very good thing. Relationships are the sort of thing best left to fanfiction.)
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Sep 20, 2016 07:10
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meristem posted:These people seem to be ignoring that there is a rich tradition of women behaving like men in order to advance in life, which in a gender-disparate society like Japan may still make sense. Not everything is about sexual identity. In Edgeworth's case, I think he's all but confirmed to be asexual.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:16
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I suppose that's a pitfall of bringing Japanese games to the Western world, and always kinda has been (inasmuch as Japanese cultural norms can be really, really different from Western norms). but you'd think, given this particular series' significant fanbase outside of Japan, they might have some level of concern for what non-Japanese players would think. but no.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:18
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Spatula City posted:They have peculiar notions about gender. Homosexuality is mostly incomprehensible to them, lol
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Sep 20, 2016 07:22
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Spatula City posted:I suppose that's a pitfall of bringing Japanese games to the Western world, and always kinda has been (inasmuch as Japanese cultural norms can be really, really different from Western norms). but you'd think, given this particular series' significant fanbase outside of Japan, they might have some level of concern for what non-Japanese players would think. but no. The game is set in Japan and is going to reflect Japanese norms. Like, the handling of Robin is weird because it's so easy to read her as trans (especially since they don't bother explaining anything about why her parents have her act like a dude) only to then have the player out her while she protests which is kinda messed up, and i'm decently certain there was many AA fans in Japan as well who weren't fond of it. But to say "man sure is strange that this Japanese game with Japanese characters, set in Japan, occasionally expresses Japanese culture." is sorta dumb.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:24
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Case 5 went on a bit too dang long for my tastes. I was expecting the thing Dhurke mentioned that Apollo would have to figure out for himself was that Jove Justice was the one who set the fire under orders by ga'han or some 'your dad was evil' twist but it was a lot more straight forward than i expected it to be. not really a complaint or anything though.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:42
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The worst thing about 5-3 imo is that Means is so blatantly evil and the murderer. What a retarded lovely villain with an awesome breakdown.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:47
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Spatula City posted:They have peculiar notions about gender. Homosexuality is mostly incomprehensible to them, .   
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Sep 20, 2016 07:51
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I didn't mean to imply there's no gay people or LGBT culture in Japan, but that the mainstream culture that makes it to America paints their perception of gay people in a really odd light. It's like, they're not as horrified about it as a lot of people in the West were and still are, but they can't take it seriously, and LGBT characters are clowns, figures of comic relief.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:58
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Kajeesus posted:My main bug about Robin is that Japan apparently has some really weird notions on what constitutes hypermasculinity. I do wonder why this character in a comedic visual novel would have traits that are highly over emphasised on both their masculine and feminine personas. I wonder if this character was being played for humour and levity as opposed to being a serious social commentary on being forced to play a gender role you do not identify with in society. Nah, surely not. Spatula City posted:They have peculiar notions about gender. Homosexuality is mostly incomprehensible to them, so they treat it largely as either comic relief or SECRET SHAME. At least, judging by their media that comes here. and sometimes they come close to possibly suggesting homosexuality, but can't pull the trigger, and weird things happen (coughPersona4cough). Maybe you should actually take your time to look into a culture and learn its values, regardless of whether or not you like them, before you come in saying "they're this or that" lest you come across as culturally ignorant at best and a little racist at worst.
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Sep 20, 2016 08:00
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Spatula City posted:I suppose that's a pitfall of bringing Japanese games to the Western world, and always kinda has been (inasmuch as Japanese cultural norms can be really, really different from Western norms). but you'd think, given this particular series' significant fanbase outside of Japan, they might have some level of concern for what non-Japanese players would think. but no. 
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Sep 20, 2016 08:01
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I'm going for a Masters degree in Gender Studies at Harvard using Ace Attorney as the basis of my thesis, AMA.
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Sep 20, 2016 08:04
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cloofish posted:In Edgeworth's case, I think he's all but confirmed to be asexual. (Although I'd like a case to happen on Gumshoe and Maggey's wedding... or maybe, given the 7-year-gap, an anniversary. I forgot about Gumshoe and Maggey.) Spatula City posted:I suppose that's a pitfall of bringing Japanese games to the Western world, and always kinda has been (inasmuch as Japanese cultural norms can be really, really different from Western norms). but you'd think, given this particular series' significant fanbase outside of Japan, they might have some level of concern for what non-Japanese players would think. but no.
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Sep 20, 2016 08:11
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I do wonder why this character in a comedic visual novel would have traits that are highly over emphasised on both their masculine and feminine personas. I wonder if this character was being played for humour and levity as opposed to being a serious social commentary on being forced to play a gender role you do not identify with in society. Nah, surely not. I have no idea what you think I'm saying. I just think it's weird that the entirety of Robin's male persona is "shouts a lot" and "smashes pottery," and everyone around her goes "wow, what a man's man."
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Sep 20, 2016 08:18
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