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Gibson's goal was to show the true extent of Christ's suffering, thereby venerating his sacrifice for humanity. I wouldn't call it showboating, though, firstly because it's not really targeted at a secular audience, and secondly because it's not meant to leave you happy and satisfied.
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Sep 10, 2016 03:31
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Passion is a very beautifully directed and well cast and very unpleasant film. It achieves the goals it sets out to achieve though. Also Gibson's shtick of doing films in dead languages is a really neat ambitious idea. I got no real love for the film but it wasn't made for me.
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Sep 10, 2016 03:37
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I see it pretty much as just being about Gibson being in the shittiest time of his life when he was being the shittiest person and had really lovely hangups about Jews especially now with everything that came out about him in the decade since. Passion plays were often precursors to pogroms. You get the people fired up about how the lovely Jews were lovely to our Lord and I kinda still can't believe he straight up revived it middle ages style like that.
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Sep 10, 2016 04:21
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Yeah, but I think your actor playing Jesus getting struck by lightning should be a sign to shut down filming.
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Sep 10, 2016 06:52
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Christ's suffering stripped of all context is drat near meaningless, and this film does it's absolute best to give as little context as possible. It assumes you know the before and after, which might be fine if your end product doesn't end up just being torture porn of the Savior put in a vacuum. There's lots of transparent directorial shittiness, bad history, bad theology, and your Christ actor has been injured, ill, and struck by lightning, and then two others get struck. It's a shitpit of a film and I think Gibson's vision of hell might have been what he was seeing the nights he was making this movie. I don't know why i have so much venom for that film but it makes me really mad it exists and it's held up as one of the better examples of christian cinema. I guess on a technical level it is, it's just not actually Christian in its content.
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Sep 11, 2016 00:09
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It's not Christian, for sure. It's Catholic.
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Sep 11, 2016 01:44
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's not Christian, for sure. It's Catholic. ???????????????????  ??????????? 
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Sep 11, 2016 02:11
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I think Hundu's point is that the film's strong focus on suffering is something you tend to find in Catholicism more so than Christianity in general. Redemptive suffering is a Catholic concept, after all. Edit: Not that there aren't plenty of other denominations who are into this sort of thing, of course. Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Sep 11, 2016 |
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Sep 11, 2016 02:27
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FreudianSlippers posted:??????????????????? I didn't know pastor, priest, deacon, and the rest were Greek words. I mean, he's not basing those terms off a translated version of the bible, is he? Nah.
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Sep 11, 2016 02:39
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Deacon is a Greek word though... Not that it makes Chick right or anything. Of course the Bible mentions nuns — Joshua was the son of one!
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Sep 11, 2016 05:16
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Also shocked he's got the "THE JEWS!" accusation in there given that he must have had to learn Hebrew to read at least half of the Bible and thereby learned that he worships a rabbi.
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Sep 11, 2016 05:39
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hemophilia posted:Christ's suffering stripped of all context is drat near meaningless, and this film does it's absolute best to give as little context as possible. It assumes you know the before and after, which might be fine if your end product doesn't end up just being torture porn of the Savior put in a vacuum. There's lots of transparent directorial shittiness, bad history, bad theology, and your Christ actor has been injured, ill, and struck by lightning, and then two others get struck. It's a shitpit of a film and I think Gibson's vision of hell might have been what he was seeing the nights he was making this movie. Because historically Passion Plays were meant to be entirely devoid of context and just show the horrible Jews torturing Christ because Satan wanted them to and as we all know Jews work for Satan. For most of their history everyone doing them was very aware that stripping the context makes the sacrifice meaningless, because sacrifice is an uplifting and noble story, and a Passion Play is meant to whip the audience into a frenzy. Gibson might as well have put on a minstrel show for his movie to pay tribute to the black community or something. It deserves every bit of venom it gets and more and if there's any justice in history it'll either be entirely forgotten like countless others were or it'll be remembered embarrassingly as That Time For A Bit Everyone Got Really Into An Antisemitic Tradition For Some Reason . Hilariously multiple sects (the biggest I think being Lutheran) have outright banned passion plays because, ya know, it's real hosed up to use the spiritual foundation of your faith to just go 'look at how Christ was tortured so horribly and grossly
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Sep 11, 2016 06:31
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Jack Gladney posted:he must have had to learn Hebrew to read at least half of the Bible hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Sep 11, 2016 18:13
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What's the relevance of this?
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Sep 11, 2016 18:30
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Robotnik Nudes posted:What's the relevance of this? Jack Chick's listed there
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Sep 11, 2016 18:36
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But how could he tell unless he mastered the original texts? Unless he's a religious hypocrite whose every position is completely worthless, I mean.
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Sep 11, 2016 18:41
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King James bible is a pretty decent translation but that's about it. I think them replacing God's actual name with LORD is a bit silly also. What sort of lame god doesn't have a name?
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Sep 11, 2016 20:47
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Jack Gladney posted:But how could he tell unless he mastered the original texts? Unless he's a religious hypocrite whose every position is completely worthless, I mean. Oh my bad. Thought you were talking about Gibson who I assume is adamantly opposed to the KJV
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Sep 11, 2016 20:48
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Because historically Passion Plays were meant to be entirely devoid of context and just show the horrible Jews torturing Christ because Satan wanted them to and as we all know Jews work for Satan. For most of their history everyone doing them was very aware that stripping the context makes the sacrifice meaningless, because sacrifice is an uplifting and noble story, and a Passion Play is meant to whip the audience into a frenzy. Gibson might as well have put on a minstrel show for his movie to pay tribute to the black community or something. It deserves every bit of venom it gets and more and if there's any justice in history it'll either be entirely forgotten like countless others were or it'll be remembered embarrassingly as That Time For A Bit Everyone Got Really Into An Antisemitic Tradition For Some Reason . Our ELCA Lutheran church youth group puts on a mime of the passion play every Easter so not all of them. That said it puts a greater emphasis on the entirety of Christ's life and the lead up to the crucifixion and the Bad Guys are just kids with stage paint on instead of caricatures of Jews. Passion plays are a lot better when you put them in context. Then again, the tradition WAS started and grown by some folks that turned out to be a little too conservative for the church and bailed when the homosexuality ruling went down (and the youth group minister ended up in no-poo poo Waco Texas on a compound somewhere).
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Sep 12, 2016 21:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's not Christian, for sure. It's Catholic. Ahem, pre-Vatican II Catholic. This was actually picked out immediately by the person I saw this film with, who knew nothing about Mel Gibson or his hilariously anti-Semitic father.
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Sep 12, 2016 21:47
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Feldegast42 posted:Our ELCA Lutheran church youth group puts on a mime of the passion play every Easter so not all of them. That said it puts a greater emphasis on the entirety of Christ's life and the lead up to the crucifixion and the Bad Guys are just kids with stage paint on instead of caricatures of Jews. Passion plays are a lot better when you put them in context. yea obviously nothing wrong with the passion story handled like, ya know, most every other bible story is, where the point is an overall spiritual message and you're showing love for God by showing everyone how cool and awesome he is. Things just get awkward and Jew-hatey when the story is 'God was cool and awesome AND THEN THE JEWS KILLED HIS SON'.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:35
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Jack Gladney posted:But how could he tell unless he mastered the original texts? Unless he's a religious hypocrite whose every position is completely worthless, I mean. I immediately thought, "I'd like to ask god, "how much of the stuff in the bible - old and new testament - is actually poo poo that you said or did or laid down as law, and how much was just made up by assholes?'"
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Sep 13, 2016 07:10
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Things just get awkward and Jew-hatey when the story is 'God was cool and awesome AND THEN THE JEWS KILLED HIS SON'. The southern Baptist church I went to growing up was like this, only with the Romans instead of the Jews. Instead of having people dress up as an angry Jewish mob or whatever for the Easter passion play, they would just get a couple of the biggest football players from the youth group and dress them up as Roman legionaries. They'd do all the weird passion play stuff with whipping Jesus while he's carrying a cross up to the front of the sanctuary and all that. Then there's the Easter Jesus comes back stuff, but it never really went into the spiritual lesson other than just the baseline Easter "Jesus is back, look how cool he is in that shiny white robe" stuff. I guess I lucked out missing on the Jew hate stuff that people have mentioned, I never saw anything like that. I guess the closest they ever came was poo poo-talking the Pharisees but there was never any blanket anti-semitism.
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Sep 14, 2016 01:37
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I don't really see why the Jews get so much flack while the Romans get off basically scot free. I mean sure the local religious authorities really put a lot of pressure on the Romans to execute Jesus but they weren't the ones to actually torture and crucify the dude. It's not like the Romans had to whip him and put a crown of thorns on him and generally torment. They could've just slit his throat and be done with it. They could also very easily have totally ignored the locals and their bullshit. So they are possibly even more to blame. But I suspect the early Christians downplayed the anti-Roman angle a bit since the empire was still going strong and the last thing you want when you have a little startup is to anger the most powerful empire in the world which is not afraid to kill thousands of people for pretty minor things.
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Sep 14, 2016 01:43
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FreudianSlippers posted:I don't really see why the Jews get so much flack while the Romans get off basically scot free. I mean sure the local religious authorities really put a lot of pressure on the Romans to execute Jesus but they weren't the ones to actually torture and crucify the dude. It's not like the Romans had to whip him and put a crown of thorns on him and generally torment. They could've just slit his throat and be done with it. They could also very easily have totally ignored the locals and their bullshit. As the story goes, Jesus and that murderer dude were brought out and the crowd of Jews was asked who should be let go and who should be crucified...the Jews chose Jesus to be the ppunished one and let the other guy go. Least that's how it goes in the bible. The christian apologists I've heard always excuse the Roman torture as "they did that to everyone, Jesus wasn't really a special case"
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Sep 14, 2016 02:49
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SocketWrench posted:As the story goes, Jesus and that murderer dude were brought out and the crowd of Jews was asked who should be let go and who should be crucified...the Jews chose Jesus to be the ppunished one and let the other guy go. Least that's how it goes in the bible. Crucifixion was the standard punishment for sedition and the guy was claiming to be the King of the Jews, so yeah. The torture and crucifixion was as much a message to the crowd of onlookers about what happens to people who rebel against Rome as it was a method of execution.
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Sep 14, 2016 03:47
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Calvary was a great movie. 7.5/10 for me. EDIT: The only other "similar" movie I've seen is The Name of the Rose. Any other recommendations? ObamaPhone fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 03:07
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The Charge of the Light Brigade?  There's A Man for All Seasons if you're talking about the idea of religious institutions being at their heart human. A good Martin Luther movie should exist and deal with this theme too, but I think what's been done so far is only so-so; they tend to focus on the man himself. Ordet (and Carl Theodor Dreyer in general) is worthwhile, but his films are less explicit about the commentary. If you like Ordet, you could stay in Denmark for Babette's Feast, which is similar to The Name of the Rose in some ways, although less cerebral. And while it's in a slightly different direction, definitely see The Mission if you haven't. If you like that there's also At Play in the Fields of the Lord. It isn't of the same quality, but I always thought it was a bit underappreciated.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:48
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Kangra posted:The Charge of the Light Brigade? I like any dramas involving Catholic priests. Calvary especially is an excellent film because it doesn't shove Christianity down your throat. For instance, rather than having Father James pray out loud whenever he is alone or pressuring others to ask God for answers when their faith is tested, he goes out into his community and tackles problems one-by-one using his own wits. The mandatory "God is showing/telling/giving us [...]" that is a staple of lesser quality Christian films like Courageous, Z-grade biblical epics, and Cloud Ten Pictures is entirely absent in Cavalry. I'll checkout your recommendations, thanks. ObamaPhone fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 20:20
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It's Calvary, not Cavalry. Calvary, aka Golgotha, is the place Jesus was crucified; cavalry are mounted soldiers.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:54
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ObamaPhone posted:I like any dramas involving Catholic priests. Based on your description, you might enjoy Roland Joffé's The Mission, in which a group of Jesuits try to establish a mission in the jungles of Paraguay, but come into conflict with official Church politics. Other interesting films with members of the Catholic clergy as main characters are The Club about a group of priests whom the Church hides from the outside world due to their sins, The Flowers of St. Francis about the challenges faced by Francis of Assisi and his religious order, and Monsieur Vincent, the biography of the priest Vincent de Paul, who dedicated himself to serving the poor. Also, the Vatican compiled an official list of 45 great films in 1995, which isn't a bad place to start if you're interested in Christian cinema.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:17
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Also check out: —Diary of a Country Priest, Luis Buñuel —Andrei Rublev, Andrei Tarkovsky, nearly all of whose films are deeply informed by his Christianity. —Of Gods and Men, Xavier Beauvois
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Sep 21, 2016 22:53
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The mission is beautiful and fantastic, and has a Ennio Morricone score.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:11
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winter light(1963) by Ingmar Bergman is a really good priest film. If you dig Bergman's shtick. Bergman was the son of a minister and a lot of his films are him struggling with his faith or lack there of.LORD OF BOOTY posted:It's Calvary, not Cavalry. Calvary, aka Golgotha, is the place Jesus was crucified; cavalry are mounted soldiers. They should've gone all in and called the film "HILL OF SKULLS"
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Sep 22, 2016 00:38
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ObamaPhone posted:I like any dramas involving Catholic priests. Doubt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=321VHP92d8A
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Sep 22, 2016 06:25
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Uhhh....I...what the gently caress? So Kirk is doing blackface?! Dude, unless your name is Robert Downey Jr, NO.
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Sep 24, 2016 05:24
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Uhhh....I...what the gently caress? I don't see any Asians on that IMDB list either....
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Sep 24, 2016 06:22
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I don't think that's an actual project. The IMDB link is the only reference to it I could find on the Internet. Even Cameron's website doesn't mention it. However, I did find out that Cameron has his own brand of coffee.
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Sep 24, 2016 13:19
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Uhhh....I...what the gently caress? I would love it if this was just the whole plot. Kirk Cameron is the only black kid at an all Asian school.
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Sep 24, 2016 13:27
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I would love it if this was just the whole plot. Kirk Cameron is the only black kid at an all Asian school. It wouldn't be any more batshit than Saving Christmas.
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Sep 24, 2016 16:52
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