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They couldn't fit Vision and Wonder Man in the panel; they were villains for five minutes.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:38
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Pastry of the Year posted:This got me thinking: how many Marvel-616 villains (I haven't read through Secret Wars yet Uh... Prowler....... Uh........ Mockingbird..... I'm sure there's more.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:40
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) reformed and had it stick?
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Is Emma Frost still a good guy?
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Sep 20, 2016 21:44
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Magneto's been a principled anti-hero for a long rear end time, but that's also been on-and-off since the 80s and a lot of people might not consider him to ever be a "hero." Plus it does feel inevitable that a new writer will have him go back to being a pure bad guy sooner rather than later.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:45
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Oh, and my old pal Silver Surfer, of course. Does Adam Warlock count as "making it stick?"
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Sep 20, 2016 21:45
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No one's said the original Thunderbolts minus Zemo yet?Mover posted:Magneto's been a principled anti-hero for a long rear end time, but that's also been on-and-off since the 80s and a lot of people might not consider him to ever be a "hero." It has been ridiculously long for that kind of thing, though, even if it's limited to 616 comics and the rest of the media hasn't really adapted any of it. (although the way the 90s animated series ended, it could count retroactively) Imagine if Superman was dead for as long as Magneto has been a hero.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:47
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Halloween Jack posted:Oh, and my old pal Silver Surfer, of course. Does Adam Warlock count as "making it stick?" Adam Warlock doesn't feel like a "hero" most of the time. He's a super powered dude who keeps getting dragged into situations, not a guy that goes out of his way to to do good. Plus, he's fated to turn evil in the end no matter what.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:58
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Technically there are two Adam Warlocks now, but the second one is the new Living Tribunal.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:01
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The Question IRL posted:In fact in the original Batman and the Outsider's series there is a scene where Batman is trying to interrogate a dude. And the guy is like "But I know the Batman has a code against killing!" A lot of writers do that because they are kind of dumb. Cap did with moon knight as an example.
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Sep 20, 2016 22:56
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Pastry of the Year posted:This got me thinking: how many Marvel-616 villains (I haven't read through Secret Wars yet Eddie Brock, except then he went crazy and evil, I think. Sandman, except then he just went evil again because Byrne. Hawkeye, Black Widow and the Maximoff siblings count, I guess. Winter Soldier too, if you squint. ...Namor?
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Sep 20, 2016 22:56
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Was Wolverine a villain when he was fighting Hulk the first time?
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Sep 20, 2016 23:02
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Spiderman became a hero
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Sep 20, 2016 23:03
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WickedHate posted:No one's said the original Thunderbolts minus Zemo yet? Moonstone's arguable, but the rest of them, yeah. Especially Songbird. Rogue's stayed good, too.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:05
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Vision started out as a villain I think.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:19
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Thaddius the Large posted:Was Wolverine a villain when he was fighting Hulk the first time? He was a government operative they sent in to stop the Hulk from destroying Canada or something. He was the antagonist because it was Hulk's comic book, I guess.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:20
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X-O posted:Technically there are two Adam Warlocks now, but the second one is the new Living Tribunal.  I need to catch up on cosmic Marvel.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:20
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Oh, and I believe Gambit was an antagonist at first though I don't know how long that lasted.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:22
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Roth posted:Oh, and I believe Gambit was an antagonist at first though I don't know how long that lasted. No, he had some weird thing where he picked up deaged Kid Storm as a partner-in-crime.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:28
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Die Laughing posted:I liked Black Bat as the Batman of China. Maybe it sounds bad rear end in Chinese. Orphan is just the most depressing super hero name. "You have no parents? My planet blew up. I'm Superman, I don't go around calling myself the Last Son of Krypton." It's kind of unfortunate that a Asian character who has no ties to the country is appointed 'Batman of China', though. She doesn't speak or read any Chinese. Travis343 posted:I don't know if her new origin is actually any darker than the original, you're already dealing with one of the most extreme abusive parents in the history of comics, but they really did lose a great character in the old David Cain. Yes, but Cass has seen people dying up close multiple times and she still kills Harper's mom to the best of my recollection. As opposed to being innocent of the consequences of death until she kills someone for the first time. Kind of a big difference IMO.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:49
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Yvonmukluk posted:It's kind of unfortunate that a Asian character who has no ties to the country is appointed 'Batman of China', though. She doesn't speak or read any Chinese. She was in the room when Batman offered the role to Katana, and when she pointed out she was Japanese he backpedaled and said he was talking to Cass.
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Sep 21, 2016 00:00
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Pastry of the Year posted:This got me thinking: how many Marvel-616 villains (I haven't read through Secret Wars yet Golden Age Namor was pretty much a villain, wasn't he? Though he's been a hero ever since then, and then retconned to be fighting the Nazis in the 40s.
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Sep 21, 2016 00:01
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Rochallor posted:Golden Age Namor was pretty much a villain, wasn't he? Only in the sense that Stardust the Super Wizard is a villain.
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Sep 21, 2016 00:05
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Rochallor posted:Golden Age Namor was pretty much a villain, wasn't he? Though he's been a hero ever since then, and then retconned to be fighting the Nazis in the 40s. Nah. 
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Sep 21, 2016 00:33
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Is that the Thin Man?
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Sep 21, 2016 02:00
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Halloween Jack posted:Is that the Thin Man? No, it's a flagpole.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:38
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Travis343 posted:No, it's a flagpole. 
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Sep 21, 2016 02:48
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Yvonmukluk posted:It's kind of unfortunate that a Asian character who has no ties to the country is appointed 'Batman of China', though. She doesn't speak or read any Chinese. Her English isn't that good either. She could have had some awesome kung fu adventuress, speaking the language of fight. Bring back Lady Shiva, and maybe Richard Dragon. Batman Incorporated is the biggest ball dropped in a long history of people dropping the ball on Grant Morrison characters. I guess we'll have to wait ten years or so, like Marvel Boy, or anything decent being done with Fantomex.
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Sep 21, 2016 06:34
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Die Laughing posted:Her English isn't that good either. She could have had some awesome kung fu adventuress, speaking the language of fight. Bring back Lady Shiva, and maybe Richard Dragon. Batman Incorporated is the biggest ball dropped in a long history of people dropping the ball on Grant Morrison characters. I guess we'll have to wait ten years or so, like Marvel Boy, or anything decent being done with Fantomex. Fantomex was pretty great in the various X-forces
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Sep 21, 2016 06:43
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Batman Inc was dropped because of N52, not usual "Let's not utilize anything Morrison comes up with" methodology you often see for...basically everything Morrison comes up with. To be honest basically all of Morrison's Batman additions were utilized. Damian Wayne most obviously, but Final Crisis was a Huge Deal, his "Hyper Sanity" theorem re: Joker is basically the new canon, and basically every part of Batman, Incorporated was utilized or had a major effect on some N52 Bat-Book or another, down to the fact that Batman, Incorporated itself got a continuation despite being a direct sequel to a book that was made non-canon. And then you have Spyral and that British finishing school being heavily utilized in Grayson, Tomasi utilizing both Requiem and the events of Final Crisis itself in a huge plotline when they set about reviving Damian, and even stuff like Batwing at least initially being DC's effort at trying to do a continuing "Batman of _____" story. Really, the only part of Batman Inc that wasn't utilized despite being clearly set up was the characters that didn't exist any more, aka Black Bat and Oracle. Everything else in that book and that Grant Morrison in general came up with for his Batman run got used, and it definitely had some very heavy impact that's still being felt today.
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Sep 21, 2016 06:54
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bobkatt013 posted:Fantomex was pretty great in the various X-forces Yeah. It just took 10+ years. And New52 doesn't excuse ditching all the Batman Inc characters. There's so much international comic talent, that you could have a Batman Inc anthology series with creators from the countries the characters are from.
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Sep 21, 2016 07:37
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Halloween Jack posted:Is that the Thin Man? No, the Thin Man is dead and buried under concrete.
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Sep 21, 2016 08:02
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Die Laughing posted:Her English isn't that good either. She could have had some awesome kung fu adventuress, speaking the language of fight. Bring back Lady Shiva, and maybe Richard Dragon. Batman Incorporated is the biggest ball dropped in a long history of people dropping the ball on Grant Morrison characters. I guess we'll have to wait ten years or so, like Marvel Boy, or anything decent being done with Fantomex.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:15
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Moonstone's arguable, but the rest of them, yeah. Especially Songbird. Eh, Atlas and Fixer go back and forth a LOT, and Moonstone's never really been a hero since the original run of T-bolts ended.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:45
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Venom has been a hero for quite a few years now although the new upcoming series makes it seem like that's not sticking.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:58
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That doesn't really count since it's a different guy.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:59
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I've read the entire Ultimate line, the Secret Wars tie in (That did not exist in a bubble) and two issues of Miles Morales 616 solo. I really need it spelt out to me if Miles is the person from the Ultimate Universe. I always assumed he had memory of everything but reading the solo it's kind of obvious he doesn't and that seems uncomfortably weird with his background. Like Ultimate Reed Richards survived? Can anyone just spell out exactly how the Ultimate Universe ending affected 616, give me all the details from Secret Wars and future issues of Miles solo run. What's up with Miles's parents still being alive and only one of them knowing his identity. Did Mile's uncle exist in 616? What about ties to Osborn and the spider?
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Sep 22, 2016 18:54
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They have yet to explicitly spell it out for us.
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Sep 22, 2016 18:59
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Sinners Sandwich posted:I've read the entire Ultimate line, the Secret Wars tie in (That did not exist in a bubble) and two issues of Miles Morales 616 solo. Reed and Miles both escaped the last Incursion and were on Battleworld. Miles survived by being kind to Molecule Man, one of the only people that was, and in order to repay that kindness when he re-made the primary universe he transplanted Miles and his family and friends to the 616 and even resurrected his mother. We don't know the specifics about how his past lines up with the newly created universe. I'm not sure we'll ever get concrete answers either way. As for 1610 Reed, he confronted Molecule Man and was sliced up but managed to somehow pull himself back together and sneak into the new universe.
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Sep 22, 2016 19:03
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Specifically he gave Molecule Man a cheeseburger that had been in his pocket for an undetermined amount of time.
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Sep 22, 2016 19:06
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Hey, dude was hungry as hell. He hadn't eaten in like eight years. You literally hold a world together for eight years and see if you won't eat a week old burger.
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Sep 22, 2016 19:10
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