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I suppose that makes sense, McWoD is a mixture of some actually interesting setting details combined with the World of Darkness archetypes being twisted to fit into a d20 mold creating two good classes (Mage and werewolf) and two horrible classes (Vampire and Demon). Makes me wonder how much he was specifically responsible for and how much he stole from another setting.
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Sep 23, 2016 17:23
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Monte Cooke is the moon.
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Sep 23, 2016 18:01
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Something Awful TG should really look into creating an award.
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Sep 23, 2016 18:07
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moths posted:Something Awful TG should really look into creating an award. Your posting would lose 
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Sep 23, 2016 18:14
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Haha, no I mean an industry award. This is probably the only tabletop gaming forum that isn't in the pocket of BIG D20 and capable of presenting an award that's actually worth winning.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:00
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I think the problem with that is that for the most part board culture around here is in the pocket of BIG PBTA. e: Which isn't a "problem" per se, but any RPG board is going to have bias based on that board's culture.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:22
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I figure starting your own award is as simple as rounding up a single-digit number of judges and having someone design an icon that award-winners can slap on their products. Then you just start awarding. How you get your award to take off... I have no idea. v  v
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Sep 23, 2016 19:34
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I'll consult my Hipster Pseudo-Activist Cultural Marxist Pomofascist masters and see what we can do.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:35
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We're calling these the Swinies, I assume?
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Sep 23, 2016 19:40
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some loving LIAR posted:We're calling these the Swinies, I assume? The Awfuls, obviously.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:43
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Every pull quote should be "It was truly something awful."
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Sep 23, 2016 19:53
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Monte Cooke is the moon. A pale reflection of the sun's nurturing light? It fits.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:05
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I know y'all are joking but this sounds like a legitimately good idea under the right leadership. Also it should have a Razzie.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:14
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Zurui posted:Also it should have a Razzie.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:16
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Evil Mastermind posted:That's one of those things that sounds like a fun idea until you remember how ridiculously defensive people get about their favorite RPGs. And then it's hilarious.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:19
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Zurui posted:I know y'all are joking but this sounds like a legitimately good idea under the right leadership. Call it the Synnie.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:21
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Evil Mastermind posted:That's one of those things that sounds like a fun idea until you remember how ridiculously defensive people get about their favorite RPGs. I wouldn't worry about it too much honestly, our CIA ties will keep the haters from being too critical of our decisions. Or else...
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Sep 23, 2016 20:20
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Traditional games don't really need a Razzie because it would just fuel the recipient's persecution complex and harassment agenda.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:21
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moths posted:Traditional games don't really need a Razzie because it would just fuel the recipient's persecution complex and harassment agenda. Uwe Boll's exist in all mediums. Criticism of work is not a personal attack, but in all industries there will be those who take it that way. What are you gonna do, let them get away with it?
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Sep 23, 2016 20:24
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This comes up literally every time this 'SA should do its own award' comes up. Worst game is probably a great way to get shitbags tracking down your home address.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:23
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remusclaw posted:Uwe Boll's exist in all mediums. Criticism of work is not a personal attack, but in all industries there will be those who take it that way. What are you gonna do, let them get away with it? Uwe Boll, to my knowledge, has not sicced hate mobs on his critics and gotten people to send death threats. TG is almost a unique industry in that way. I say we do earnest, actual awards and not some Razzie garbage that people would expect from us.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:27
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Regardless the award's physical form likely aught to be a pineapple grenade with numbers printed on the frangible's.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:26
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Serf posted:Uwe Boll, to my knowledge, has not sicced hate mobs on his critics and gotten people to send death threats. TG is almost a unique industry in that way. You don't think people have been targeted over their public criticism of other media? That is what gamer-gate is. Critics have gotten death threats over their opinion on Superhero movies. Criticism is dangerous no matter the subject.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:29
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Serf posted:Uwe Boll, to my knowledge, has not sicced hate mobs on his critics and gotten people to send death threats. TG is almost a unique industry in that way. He has personally beaten them into submission, though.* * the ones he outclassed in weight, anyway. I don't think he ever boxed anyone bigger than himself. (Not trying to make light of doxxing or death threats here, or any of the stuff the usual suspects get up to, just to be absolutely clear.)
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Sep 23, 2016 20:31
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neongrey posted:This comes up literally every time this 'SA should do its own award' comes up. Worst game is probably a great way to get shitbags tracking down your home address. Serf posted:Uwe Boll, to my knowledge, has not sicced hate mobs on his critics and gotten people to send death threats. TG is almost a unique industry in that way. I actually have a solution for this that will appease both nonexistent camps. Give me the award, I'll put one deliberately terrible game a year for free or something. That way, people can focus on good games and be all "Ha ha, Kwyndig won worst game of the year again." It's not like I'd ever sic my fans on people... it's not like I even have fans.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:31
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remusclaw posted:You don't think people have been targeted over their public criticism of other media? That is what gamer-gate is. Critics have gotten death threats over their opinion on Superhero movies. Criticism is dangerous no matter the subject. Gamergate pertained to video games. Which is why I said TG is almost unique. What fans does Uwe Boll have to send at his critics? I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not he poses an actual threat to people. Falstaff posted:He has personally beaten them into submission, though.* This isn't the same thing as having anonymous followers send death threats and post critics' addresses tho.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:32
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The most hurtful thing a contest can do is snub them. Making them the butt of a joke is still attention, unfortunately.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:32
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neongrey posted:This comes up literally every time this 'SA should do its own award' comes up. Worst game is probably a great way to get shitbags tracking down your home address. Fortunately we're all terminally depressed sad sacks who welcome the sweet embrace of death.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:33
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Serf posted:Gamergate pertained to video games. Which is why I said TG is almost unique. What fans does Uwe Boll have to send at his critics? I'm genuinely curious as to whether or not he poses an actual threat to people. Uwe Boll was an example, it's not like he solely among all filmmakers has critics. The content creator does not need to approve for fans to be shitheads, they often take that up on their own, and have, in any media where there are a significant number of people to create stars. If anything, criticism is a necessary danger, as those who can't take it or who react in a manner that is dangerous to others should absolutely be put on blast for it. Death threats over Man of Steel https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/dc-fans-send-death-threats-to-2-critics-a140871 remusclaw fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 20:36
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Countblanc posted:Fortunately we're all terminally depressed sad sacks who welcome the sweet embrace of death. Hey, I'm certified not depressed*.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:40
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remusclaw posted:Uwe Boll was an example, it's not like he solely among all filmmakers has critics. The content creator does not need to approve for fans to be shitheads, they often take that up on their own, and have, in any media where there are a significant number of people to create stars. If anything, criticism is a necessary danger, as those who can't take it or who react in a manner that is dangerous to others should absolutely be put on blast for it. While I agree with you in principle, who are these people supposed to be put on blast to? The industry clearly doesn't care about critics, creators and fans being harassed. It would be one thing if it had even a snowball's chance of accomplishing something, but instead it would just be taking on meaningless risk. I'll tell anybody who will listen how screwed up the community is, but I don't have anything at risk and I also don't expect anything to come of it. moths posted:The most hurtful thing a contest can do is snub them. Making them the butt of a joke is still attention, unfortunately. This is the correct course of action.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:42
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TG is hardly unique. Just look at Vox Day and his nonsense, or the way Zack Snyder behaves (he's stopped just short of actively calling on his fans to go after people, but only just). More than a few devs threw their lot in with gamergate. It's fair to say that TG is particularly bad about it. It's so niche there's essentially no public opinion cost to being a shitlord, even less than with video games. Plus there's much less buffer between creators and fans, and toxic assholes make up a bigger percentage of the total on both sides of the fence. That has more to do with it being niche - everyone who does TG is a hardcore fan compared to the audiences for most other media.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:46
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Serf posted:While I agree with you in principle, who are these people supposed to be put on blast to? The industry clearly doesn't care about critics, creators and fans being harassed. It would be one thing if it had even a snowball's chance of accomplishing something, but instead it would just be taking on meaningless risk. I'll tell anybody who will listen how screwed up the community is, but I don't have anything at risk and I also don't expect anything to come of it. The people in this industry still cry over the Satanic panic of the 80's. They care. The more they react like assholes and criminals, the more that kind of stuff gets attention in the mainstream. They get lumped in with the gater's, MRA's, and the alt right and the ones who agree with those causes will not care, but the people who don't will likely be loath to be associated with that group.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:46
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remusclaw posted:The people in this industry still cry over the Satanic panic of the 80's. They care. The more they react like assholes and criminals, the more that kind of stuff gets attention in the mainstream. They get lumped in with the gater's, MRA's, and the alt right and the ones who agree with those causes will not care, but the people who don't will likely be loath to be associated with that group. The problem is that it will not get attention in the mainstream. Videogames are big enough now that Gamergate did get some media play, but tradgames will never generate enough cash to make people care about what happens here. The biggest name in the business straight-up approves of harassment.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:50
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I think the problem with this is that the public opinion response isn't "wow that particular TG designer is bad." If it gets noticed at all, it's "wow TG is awful." There are a lot of people in the hobby who'll harass critics purely because they don't want to brought up at all, for fear of tarring the whole community. How often do we pillory some designer for essentially telling the harassed that they should just ignore their harassers? That it'd be better for everyone if they shut up about it? Once a week?
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Sep 23, 2016 20:50
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Serf posted:The problem is that it will not get attention in the mainstream. Videogames are big enough now that Gamergate did get some media play, but tradgames will never generate enough cash to make people care about what happens here. The biggest name in the business straight-up approves of harassment. I still think public criticism is necessary, even if only to get some attention to the issue. You don't fix issues like this by caving in to the assholes. Them winning is not an option, because whether we do it or not, there will be people who criticize, and they will be targeted, and it is absolutely not OK to let the assholes get away with that. If mainstream attention is unattainable, then it is on the decent folk in the hobby itself to make such actions unacceptable.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:56
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Comrade Gorbash posted:TG is hardly unique. Just look at Vox Day and his nonsense, or the way Zack Snyder behaves (he's stopped just short of actively calling on his fans to go after people, but only just). More than a few devs threw their lot in with gamergate. Wait, what? I'm gonna need links on this. Or is there some other Zack Snyder besides the one who makes superhero movies?
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Sep 23, 2016 21:12
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Pretty much every time this forum gives itself permission to broadcast negativity without restraint, the results are awful.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:15
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Rand Brittain posted:Pretty much every time this forum gives itself permission to broadcast negativity without restraint, the results are awful. I am obviously not a statistical analysis, but my own experience is that I have managed to avoid giving money to a great deal of lovely people because of the times this forum has gone negative.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:18
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There is no moral consumption under capitalism.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:24
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