Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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the cool posts kid: Jul 24, 2007

oh yeah i get where you're coming from on the "spritework is stupid hard" front, i've done a bunch of romhacking stuff where drawing sprites from scratch is the order of the day, whereas all the doom wad stuff i've done is either "apply photoshop filters to existing stuff" or "use photoshop filters to make brand new stuff" to make some nice tiling textures, so I guess I'm blowing off how hard it can be to make this stuff look nice when you don't have a good base to work from. Don't let me discourage you at all!

# ? Sep 24, 2016 15:29

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# ? May 17, 2024 16:52

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Oh, I'm not discouraged, I welcome the comments. I'm sure many people in the doom community that aren't Sgt Shivers or Tormentor667 know how hard making sprites is :v:

I think what I'll do is finish up the rest of the arsenal with the same strategy I have now, then do a quality pass and mess with more shading and stuff. If they're all in the same style, they'll probably have the same flaws I can fix.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 15:36

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

I've been looking into it in the last few weeks and even though I love spriting for my own doofy games, the size, pallette and amount of rotation each enemy has is throwing cold water over it all. Especially because I like to make super smooth animations.

It might be fun to rotoscope some toys like id did way way back though.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 16:00

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

What does it for me is I spend like an hour doing a gun sprite and I'm like "oh hell yeah dude that looks great"... and then I remember I have 6 more sprites for the same gun at a bunch of angles for shooting and refiring and I'm like "oh, oh yeah :smith:

". But even so, it is still fun, it's definitely better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

edit: New idea for weapon: sharp stick with which to poke enemies in the eyeballs

# ? Sep 24, 2016 16:14

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I know nothing about spriting, other than it involves drawing, which I'm painfully bad at... So take this with a grain of salt, BUT! For that recoil-and-your-gun-sprite-gets-bigger thing, couldn't the recoil sprite be the original size, and the 'usual view' of the gun be the smaller version? That way, you're not expanding the original sprite to a size you never intended, you'd be shifting back TO the original.

Or is that a lovely suggestion? :ohdear:

I realize that you've already made your sprite, just more thinking for any future weapons. Either way, good job, man! I couldn't do even a fourth of that stuff.

If you want audio help, though, I'd be delighted, as that's my speciality.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 18:37

Douk Douk: Mar 17, 2009; Take your pervert war elsewhere.

Shoehead posted:

I've been looking into it in the last few weeks and even though I love spriting for my own doofy games, the size, pallette and amount of rotation each enemy has is throwing cold water over it all. Especially because I like to make super smooth animations.

It might be fun to rotoscope some toys like id did way way back though.

Handcrafting enemy sprites from scratch is tedious as all hell, but rotoscoping enemy sprites is really fun. Still a bit tedious, just by the nature of the game engine and all of the shots you'll take for the rotations like you said, but 95% of the hard work is done for you and all you have to do is clean up and add fun little details. I can totally see why a bunch of 2.5d games did it. The only real exceptions I can think of are Wolfenstein 3D and Raven software's games. Really though, it all comes down to good time management. If you're able to make a pretty good sprite then move onto the next one without focusing too much on detail, you're way better off than if you spent a week each time crafting a single, perfect frame.

Despite all the tedious effort, it's still a lot of fun making any custom sprites. You gain a certain attachment to something after working on it for so long, and makes it all the better when you are able to finally summon them in game and have your little creation run around gibbing everything.

Heavy Metal posted:

Looks pretty rad! Kudos.

Thanks!

Douk Douk fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Sep 24, 2016

# ? Sep 24, 2016 18:39

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I know nothing about spriting, other than it involves drawing, which I'm painfully bad at... So take this with a grain of salt, BUT! For that recoil-and-your-gun-sprite-gets-bigger thing, couldn't the recoil sprite be the original size, and the 'usual view' of the gun be the smaller version? That way, you're not expanding the original sprite to a size you never intended, you'd be shifting back TO the original.

Or is that a lovely suggestion? I realize that you've already made your sprite, just more thinking for any future weapons. Either way, good job, man! I couldn't do even a fourth of that stuff.

If you want audio help, though, I'd be delighted, as that's my speciality.

That is an interesting idea. My next weapon (the machine gun) is the first one that doesn't have a base from an actual Doom weapon to work with, so maybe I'll try that and see how it goes.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 18:59

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

I started a new role at my job that requires me to be in the office 4 days a week instead of zero days a week, so I of course needed a mug for the office:

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:05

Instruction Manuel: May 15, 2007; Yes, it is what it looks like!

Lemon-Lime posted:

I started a new role at my job that requires me to be in the office 4 days a week instead of zero days a week, so I of course needed a mug for the office:

That's pretty ace. I'd want one that says "#1 Doomguy" or "World's Best Doomguy"

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:29

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

Lemon-Lime posted:

I started a new role at my job that requires me to be in the office 4 days a week instead of zero days a week, so I of course needed a mug for the office:

I want it.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:35

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Lemon-Lime posted:

I started a new role at my job that requires me to be in the office 4 days a week instead of zero days a week, so I of course needed a mug for the office:

Incredible :eyepop:

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:48

wafflemoose: Apr 10, 2009

Bioshock is definitely a weird beast for sure. Do the first two games qualify as old school since you can carry all the guns and eat medkits or food to recover health?

I went back to play the first game and it hasn't aged too well. Felt super clunky. The 2nd game is a bit better but story wise it's an unnecessary sequel.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:51

Blazing Ownager: Jun 2, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Shoehead posted:

I've been looking into it in the last few weeks and even though I love spriting for my own doofy games, the size, pallette and amount of rotation each enemy has is throwing cold water over it all. Especially because I like to make super smooth animations.

It might be fun to rotoscope some toys like id did way way back though.

I do say I legitimately think if they 3D scanned clay models instead of using computers for straight modeling, updating how they made Doom, that it would add something lacking from other games.

I am pretty much 100% sure positive that's why Doom's graphics stand out and have aged so much better than other games on the engine.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:52

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

A couple mod-making related questions:

- I want there to be a real pretty and/or garish gold version of each gun in my pack hidden in my campaign. How would I go about making them permanently replace the player's normal version of that weapon when they are picked up? Say the player picks up the golden revolver, how do I make it so that the normal revolver disappears from their 'inventory' and its slot is replaced with the gold one?

- How do I make it so that a weapon firing fast doesn't override its own firing sound? My machine gun's firing sound is slightly longer than the firing animation, so when it fires another shot the sound just gets cut off.

Lemon-Lime posted:

I started a new role at my job that requires me to be in the office 4 days a week instead of zero days a week, so I of course needed a mug for the office:

I'll take 7 so I can sip coffee out of a different one every morning.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 19:56

laserghost: Feb 12, 2014; ^{trust me, I'm a cat.}

Does anyone here have knowledge of Duke3d's CON files editing because nonr of the tutorials that I've found answers my question why no changes I make seem to be applied in-game

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:16

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

That's a cool mug

Who is on the other side?

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:18

RyokoTK: Feb 12, 2012; I am cool.

Starhawk64 posted:

Bioshock is definitely a weird beast for sure. Do the first two games qualify as old school since you can carry all the guns and eat medkits or food to recover health?

I went back to play the first game and it hasn't aged too well. Felt super clunky. The 2nd game is a bit better but story wise it's an unnecessary sequel.

They're definitely deliberately evoking some old-school mechanics but I wouldn't consider them old-school games, although it came out right in the heat of two-gun mania so it was a breath of fresh air in that sense.

They are definitely kind of clunky games, but at least the slowness feels deliberately evoked. Bioshock 2 is better about this as well, since you actually are a big clunky fucker in heavy armor but you're also strong as hell, so it's actually interesting how it pits you against the fast and weird splicers.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:20

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Wamdoodle posted:

That's pretty ace. I'd want one that says "#1 Doomguy" or "World's Best Doomguy"

That would have been funny.

For anyone who wants the same mug I got: https://www.amazon.com/Doom-Classic-Enemies-New-Official/dp/B01EGQGZIY/

Although $21 is a bit ridiculous, I paid �9 for mine off Amazon UK.

site posted:

That's a cool mug

Who is on the other side?

It has sergeant, cacodemon, chaingunner, baron, pinkie, lost soul and imp.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Sep 24, 2016

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:22

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

Lemon-Lime posted:

I started a new role at my job that requires me to be in the office 4 days a week instead of zero days a week, so I of course needed a mug for the office:

fixed

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:22

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

I have a stuffed Pain Elemental on my desk at work :v:

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:28

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

CJacobs posted:

- I want there to be a real pretty and/or garish gold version of each gun in my pack hidden in my campaign. How would I go about making them permanently replace the player's normal version of that weapon when they are picked up? Say the player picks up the golden revolver, how do I make it so that the normal revolver disappears from their 'inventory' and its slot is replaced with the gold one?

You can use #### sprites. Something like this:

code:

  Select:
    GUNN A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("GoldenGunToken", 1, "SelectGold")
    GUNN A 1 A_Raise
    Wait
  SelectGold:
    GUNG A 1 A_Raise
    Wait

Everywhere else in the code, use "####" as the sprite name, instead of GUNN or GUNG. Well, everywhere else, it depends, I guess the gun flash can be shared, depending on how it is.

Anyway the point is that your GoldenGun pickup is just a CustomInventory item that gives a normal gun and a GoldenGunToken when picked up. The GoldenGunToken is just a simple inventory item, it's there just to serve as a token for the jump check so it doesn't need any code except be a derivative of Inventory.

The #### sprite name is one of my favorite features in ZDoom modding.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:33

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Neat, thanks!

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:37

Douk Douk: Mar 17, 2009; Take your pervert war elsewhere.

CJacobs posted:

A couple mod-making related questions:

- I want there to be a real pretty and/or garish gold version of each gun in my pack hidden in my campaign. How would I go about making them permanently replace the player's normal version of that weapon when they are picked up? Say the player picks up the golden revolver, how do I make it so that the normal revolver disappears from their 'inventory' and its slot is replaced with the gold one?

- How do I make it so that a weapon firing fast doesn't override its own firing sound? My machine gun's firing sound is slightly longer than the firing animation, so when it fires another shot the sound just gets cut off.

To do the gold weapons idea, don't make the gold weapon an actual weapon class, but make it something like a custominventory. Basically a dummy item that only functions as something to pick up and count as an inventory item. Then, in your regular weapon's states, run a check to see if the golden weapon is in the players inventory. If it's true, then change the sprite to the golden version, but if false, continue to the regular. You could also have it so the dummy golden weapons also give the player the regular weapon on pickup, ensuring that if by some chance the player didn't pick up the regular weapon by then, they'll still get it. I'd give some example code but I'm on my phone right now, but I can PM you more info later if you'd like.

As far as the sound problem, I'm afraid I can't help you there :shrug:

There might be some trickery you can perform in SNDINFO, but as far as I know, ZDoom only has 7 channels for a sound to play on for each individual thing.

E: fb

Douk Douk fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Sep 24, 2016

# ? Sep 24, 2016 20:42

Power Walrus: Dec 24, 2003; Fun Shoe

I just played through City of the Damned: Apocalypse, holy moley! I loved it, such a cool concept for a Doom TC. I feel like there's more depth and cool world building than a lot of commercial indie games out there. The moon shelter mechanic was also really rad.

# ? Sep 24, 2016 21:36

Jblade: Sep 5, 2006

laserghost posted:

Does anyone here have knowledge of Duke3d's CON files editing because nonr of the tutorials that I've found answers my question why no changes I make seem to be applied in-game

Ok, are you editing the GAME.CON directly? is it in the same directory as the Duke exe you're running? (I'm assuming you're running Eduke32) Are you starting a fresh game every time you try and check a change? (CON code is saved with save files so you can't use an older save to check stuff as it'll just load whatever code it had then)

# ? Sep 24, 2016 23:06

r00kit Cavalry: Sep 25, 2016; by zen death robot

yakman applewhite y u cheat at tribe d00d?

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3791272

https://www.reflexarena.com/

# ? Sep 25, 2016 04:57

LogicalFallacy: Nov 16, 2015; Wrecking hell's shit since 1993

r00kit Cavalry posted:

Dare being dare.

Dammit, this is what happens when you shut down GBS.

More relevant to the thread, I'm having all sorts of fun attempting to make weapons that do what I want them to do. Right now my main focus is on getting reloading mechanics to cooperate with me. I've got a revolver that works properly, in large part thanks to one of the good folks over at the ZDoom forums, but now I'm attempting to make a pistol that does 7+1, and having all sorts of adventures trying to figure out exactly which jumps aren't doing what I think they should be doing.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 06:27

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

# ? Sep 25, 2016 10:57

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Douk Douk posted:

As far as the sound problem, I'm afraid I can't help you there There might be some trickery you can perform in SNDINFO, but as far as I know, ZDoom only has 7 channels for a sound to play on for each individual thing.

Use CHAN_AUTO and it'll automatically take any available sound channel.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 11:56

laserghost: Feb 12, 2014; ^{trust me, I'm a cat.}

Jblade posted:

Ok, are you editing the GAME.CON directly? is it in the same directory as the Duke exe you're running? (I'm assuming you're running Eduke32) Are you starting a fresh game every time you try and check a change? (CON code is saved with save files so you can't use an older save to check stuff as it'll just load whatever code it had then)

I am editing the GAME.CON file of an old, broken mod Duke Meets Doom (doom31.zip), so the file is inside mod subfolder. Every time I change anything (wanted to start from enemy/weapon damage) and save, I start a fresh game. Yes, I'm using eDuke32.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 14:22

Jblade: Sep 5, 2006

laserghost posted:

I am editing the GAME.CON file of an old, broken mod Duke Meets Doom (doom31.zip), so the file is inside mod subfolder. Every time I change anything (wanted to start from enemy/weapon damage) and save, I start a fresh game. Yes, I'm using eDuke32.

Try renaming the GAME.CON to something else and then adding -x *conname*.CON to a shortcut to Eduke32 (or adding that to the shortcut you're using to launch the mod)

# ? Sep 25, 2016 15:23

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

Shoehead posted:

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it like that whenever he shows up.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 18:27

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

I'm just surprised it took him so long to find a thread that might feasibly talk about Tribes at some point.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 18:29

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

Oh my God the last 3-5 levels of Scythe2 are loving insane

# ? Sep 25, 2016 19:12

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Work on Wolfenstein Missions continues:

MAP09: The Charnel House

MAP10: Maze of Torment

I finally get to bring out the mutants! :woop:

# ? Sep 25, 2016 19:23

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Woolie Wool posted:

Work on Wolfenstein Missions continues:

MAP09: The Charnel House

MAP10: Maze of Torment

I finally get to bring out the mutants!

Looking good!

I felt the magnum in my weapon pack was not distinct enough compared to the revolver. As is, it was basically just the revolver but with crazy fuckoff damage and a longer firerate. So I made it fire a small, invisible explosive projectile instead of a bullet. The explosion is small enough that it'll damage enemies standing directly next to each other, but not so large that it's noticeable as a normal explosion would be. Now it pushes enemies back, does pretty good damage for an explosion, and gibs enemies on death! :v:

# ? Sep 25, 2016 20:19

man in the eyeball hat: Dec 23, 2006; Capture the opening of the portal that connects this earth of 3D to one earth of 4D or 5D. Going to the 5D.

What are the typical Wolfenstein editors if I want to make something that's ECWolf compatible?

# ? Sep 25, 2016 22:26

Samuel Clemens: Oct 4, 2013; I think we should call the Avengers.

Shoehead posted:

Oh my God the last 3-5 levels of Scythe2 are loving insane

It wouldn't be Scythe if the final episode didn't ramp up the difficulty to insane levels.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 22:34

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

Zlocista posted:

What are the typical Wolfenstein editors if I want to make something that's ECWolf compatible?

WDC or HWE for maps, SLADE3 for everything else.

# ? Sep 25, 2016 22:35

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# ? May 17, 2024 16:52

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_24I4_GuO8

(Sunder map 5, Reality [meaning no damage taken] UV Max)

There are some people who are so goddamn good at Doom. I'm not sure I could beat this map on UV with saves.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 03:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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