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Skizzzer posted:Sorry, but this is your opinion. You (and others in this thread) haven't established in any convincing way how season 2 was not "translated" perfectly. I struggle to see how you make such an assertion without even knowing Esmail's end game. Skizzzer posted:No, it's not. If you are asserting that your analysis of the framing and cinematography pales from season 2 to 1, please demonstrate how. It's not enough to simple say that it's bad, and then to follow up with saying that your bad opinion is objective. Sorry, I'm not going to go download all of the first half of this season just to make this point, I am not Tony Zhou. Skizzzer posted:Can we stop talking about anime? Was season 2 of the Wire filler?
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Sep 24, 2016 21:29
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Skizzzer posted:
Fine, if you don't want me to call it filler, then I'll call it "extremely poorly paced character development stretched out over an unnecessarily large number of episodes that by and large doesn't seem to have changed anything very much." You can hold this show up as an example of television perfection all you want, but there's a reason it's lost like half its audience since season 2 started.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:32
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Here's something the internet noticed. No one knows what to make of it.  Are the same as this 
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Sep 24, 2016 21:33
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I don't understand the term "Filler". Is it "Anything which doesn't directly pertain to what I have determined is the primary plot of the show"?
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Sep 24, 2016 21:34
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AwkwardKnob posted:Here's something the internet noticed. No one knows what to make of it. Snak posted:I don't understand the term "Filler". Is it "Anything which doesn't directly pertain to what I have determined is the primary plot of the show"? DaveKap fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 21:36
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The prision is important because there is where he tries new ways of dealing with Mr Robot: first he tries to suppress him completely through routine, then tries to trust to him and make peace. And Elliot mind issues are the main plot just as much as hacking stuff Both methods fails and he goes back to where he started, but it was an important development for him to try those, and find that none of it works. Besides, it was very fun to watch and there he meets Leo, who seems like is still going to play a big part on the story
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Sep 24, 2016 21:49
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DaveKap posted:I think this is just one of those easter eggs that mean nothing. Very neat though. I would argue that the main story is Elliot and Angela finding their places in the world. Elliot struggles to understand this wall he's put up in his mind, and Angela struggles to understand why she can't do fulfilling work as an attractive, intelligent woman. Tyrell and Joanna struggle to make things fit into their manipulative and forceful approach to success. All of the plots are in service of this. Shayla, Ray, Elliot's Dad, Allsafe, Ollie, Angela's mom, all of these plots are in service of that story.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:56
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GutBomb posted:I keep seeing people mentioning that the Ray plot was filler and didn't have anything to do with the main plot but it was the way to get Elliot on a computer and able to coordinate the hack on the FBI from prison. He fixed (and then exposed) Ray's site, but he also coordinated the FBI hack. This directly resulted in the Dark Army getting him released. Snak posted:I don't understand the term "Filler". Is it "Anything which doesn't directly pertain to what I have determined is the primary plot of the show"?
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Sep 24, 2016 22:00
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The problem I have with complaining about focusing on Elliot's time in jail so much is that if the show focused on things happening elsewhere we'd all be complaining about how we weren't seeing enough of Elliot. Him going to jail is part of the plot, even if it doesn't directly contribute to completing Phase Two. Him dealing with Mr. Robot is important to the plot because Elliot is the main character and his brain problems are therefore relevant. He was in prison for as long as he needed to be, especially considering that he was released shortly after Ray was arrested. I don't think that's a coincidence. And especially considering how Sam Esmail took over pretty much all creative control of Season 2 I think that everything we were shown was presented for a reason. I liked the "filler" and even though Season 2 was different to Season 1, I don't think it was inferior.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:03
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Snak posted:I would argue that the main story is Elliot and Angela finding their places in the world. Elliot struggles to understand this wall he's put up in his mind, and Angela struggles to understand why she can't do fulfilling work as an attractive, intelligent woman. Tyrell and Joanna struggle to make things fit into their manipulative and forceful approach to success. All of the plots are in service of this. Shayla, Ray, Elliot's Dad, Allsafe, Ollie, Angela's mom, all of these plots are in service of that story. Shoren posted:The problem I have with complaining about focusing on Elliot's time in jail so much is that if the show focused on things happening elsewhere we'd all be complaining about how we weren't seeing enough of Elliot.  Apparently the rest of this post VVV was a post I had written but didn't post so... I'll just post it. Don't stop posting. Never stop posting. Spergatory posted:Spending eight episodes of a twelve episode season on a filler plot is not a very good balance. GutBomb posted:I keep seeing people mentioning that the Ray plot was filler and didn't have anything to do with the main plot but it was the way to get Elliot on a computer and able to coordinate the hack on the FBI from prison. Snak posted:Ray's plot also eased us in to the idea that bitcoin is important in the new economy. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 22:18
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AwkwardKnob posted:Here's something the internet noticed. No one knows what to make of it. Might just be prop reuse?
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Sep 24, 2016 22:26
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DaveKap posted:Not true! The episode where Elliot wasn't featured at all was actually pretty drat good! But I really like Mobley and Trenton so that's just me. That's a single episode and I also agree that it was good despite not having Elliot present at all. I'm talking more that if Elliot only had 5-10% screentime for half a season then there'd be a greater backlash.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:59
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Skizzzer posted:
Both work in security. Rose recalls a sister that doesn't exist, Elliot does not recall a sister that does exist. Both put the life of their pet fish in Angela's hand!
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Sep 24, 2016 23:07
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Elliot: People think their worship is some key to happiness. That’s just how he owns you. (S02E03)  Gods  Jesus?   Or the Devil? Price: Perhaps you find it as fascinating as I do. How a man can change the whole world with a bullet in the right place. (S02E03) Darlene: Dude, you’re freaking me out. I mean, don’t get me wrong, taking them down would - Elliot: - change the world. (S02E04) Believers Whiterose: I don’t want your proof. I want your belief. Angela: Belief in what? Whiterose: Do you ever think, that if you imagined or believed in something that it would come true? Simply by will? Angela: Yes. Actually, I did believe that. But I’m slowly having to admit that’s just not the real world. Even if I want it to be. Whiterose: I guess it all depends on what your definition of real is. Elliot: Mind awake. Body asleep. (S02E11)  Believer:  Believer:  Believer:  Believer:  Judah: 
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Sep 24, 2016 23:19
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Skizzzer posted:Price: Perhaps you find it as fascinating as I do. How a man can change the whole world with a bullet in the right place.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:24
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DaveKap posted:Well if you just want to grossly simplify the plot of this show, I'd love to get your thoughts on Game of Thrones. It is okay, I liked the last season. Spergatory posted:Fine, if you don't want me to call it filler, then I'll call it "extremely poorly paced character development stretched out over an unnecessarily large number of episodes that by and large doesn't seem to have changed anything very much." You can hold this show up as an example of television perfection all you want, but there's a reason it's lost like half its audience since season 2 started. I would argue that it has a lot of relevance to the show's themes and plot. I am not holding this season of Mr. Robot up as an example of television perfection. The reason I brought up season 2 of the Wire is because S02 of the Wire was also different from it's previous season. Most people - including myself - didn't enjoy season 2 on the first run because we were expecting a continuation of season 1. However, when viewed in the context of the complete series, I think a lot of people view season 2 more favourably, for many different reasons (there's a whole thread on the Wire so I won't get into it, and I doubt I could illustrate adequately anyway). I think the two respective seasons are similar because both show creators already know how each season will go and how they fit in together. Do I think Esmail held back a little more than he needed to? Sure, yup I do. But I'm happy to wait and see what he does. I'm not as concerned about plot as it seems some people here are. And that's fine if you do. If we end up plot-wise not much farther forward than where we are now by the end of season 3, you might hear me complaining too. Not yet, though. I really did find this season incredibly interesting. crowoutofcontext posted:Both work in security. I did find this conversation interesting (noticed this when I was grabbing screenshots): quote:Whiterose: I fail to see the logic. Why put all your faith in her when we have other options? I think the her is referring to Angela, and might be what tips Whiterose off to Angela in the first place. I don't know who them refers to.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:39
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DaveKap posted:And then later buys a bunch of new equipment and hacks directly from his house. He didn't need to be in jail to do this, that's why it's unimportant. He was in jail to disconnect, both from hacking and from mr robot. It didn't work. Him being in jail was still integral to the story. Specifically the ray plot was so he could get online and perform the FBI hack. This is what the dark army gave him his release papers for which he was grateful to receive because jail sucks and his attempts to disconnect from Mr Robot didn't work.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:39
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DaveKap posted:Your post is weird but this particular connection is a very good one. That bullet casing in FunSociety has got to be more important than it seems. I'm struggling to put this into words adequately but I think Whiterose is building towards some kind of AI/human utopia ("mind awake, body asleep"; Mr. Robot), Elliot perhaps toward the same goal or a revolution of some sort, and Price I guess to be more powerful than God? All three have God complexes. All three are working together in unclear ways. The Watership Township facility is at the center of it.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:46
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Snak posted:Maybe Tyrell had reconstructive surgery to hide his identity, but Elliot still just sees him as he was... i was thinking something similar since it seems odd that Tyrell is always walking around in fancy suits it wouldn't surprise me if he has a beard and sunglasses and looks like a total bum and Elliott's mind turns him into the Tyrell he/we recognize i don't think there's anyway for Esmail to keep the same quality of writing and keep the show running for 2-3 more seasons without it getting weaker... unless he goes full Lynchian and it just turns into a total nightmare show with no resolution and ends up becoming more like the end of the NGE anime or Twin Peaks s1 funny way to spell fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 00:25
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I'm really enjoying the show, but I have low hopes they have an ending planned and without one I doubt it will continue to be good. Its really starting to feel Lost'ish in the sense that the central mystery is is just going to be a mishandled letdown. I will give them huge points for not leaving us on a stupid and obvious cliffhanger about weather Eliot survives this season.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:58
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GutBomb posted:He was in jail to disconnect, both from hacking and from mr robot. It didn't work. Him being in jail was still integral to the story. Specifically the ray plot was so he could get online and perform the FBI hack. This is what the dark army gave him his release papers for which he was grateful to receive because jail sucks and his attempts to disconnect from Mr Robot didn't work. GarudaPrime posted:I'm really enjoying the show, but I have low hopes they have an ending planned and without one I doubt it will continue to be good. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 02:45
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GarudaPrime posted:Its really starting to feel Lost'ish in the sense that the central mystery is is just going to be a mishandled letdown.
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Sep 25, 2016 04:14
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This show has actually been really good about being really clear in its reveals. It feels like they are really on the ball about explaining what did and didnt happen. Like the prison reveal isn't just at the end of one episode, but then has a whole recap at the beginning of the next episode, and then he goes to visit his mother to shutdown all the "wut if his mom was the prison guard type bullshit". Edit: and in the Mr. Robot reveal, having Mr. Robot explicitly clarify that when he's talking to someone, it's really Elliot, etc. Snak fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 04:33
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Snak posted:This show has actually been really good about being really clear in its reveals. It feels like they are really on the ball about explaining what did and didnt happen. Like the prison reveal isn't just at the end of one episode, but then has a whole recap at the beginning of the next episode, and then he goes to visit his mother to shutdown all the "wut if his mom was the prison guard type bullshit".
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Sep 25, 2016 05:37
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Dexter may have had its strong points, but it was a garbage show from the beginning. It follows a predictable showtime formula that you also see in weeds and californication.
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Sep 25, 2016 05:57
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Snak posted:Dexter may have had its strong points, but it was a garbage show from the beginning.
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Sep 25, 2016 06:04
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DaveKap posted:Eh, if you don't watch weeds or californication, it's a bit more fun... though really S1, 2, and 4 were the only good ones. Those are the only good seasons, but they still have those problems. I'm not saying it's bad because if you watch those shows it's predictable, im saying those shows are all garbage, and I think it has to do with Showtime's formula. I don't have any interest in showtime shows after giving all of those a shot.
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Sep 25, 2016 06:07
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What is Showtime's formula? I've watched Dexter and I watched a bunch of seasons of Weeds at least through Mexico, and maybe it's just not fresh, but I'm not seeing an obvious formula both are following.
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Sep 25, 2016 06:59
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It's not a plot formula, it's relationship drama bullshit and the way it's handled. There are relationship drama beats that are clearly more important than overall story coherence. They want their characters to have sexy relationships and to have conflict in those relationships, but they don't bother having any of the characters actually act reasonably. But then they frame it all like we're suppose to sympathise and relate to the characters acting like insane psychos.
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Sep 25, 2016 07:13
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Snak posted:It's not a plot formula, it's relationship drama bullshit and the way it's handled. There are relationship drama beats that are clearly more important than overall story coherence. They want their characters to have sexy relationships and to have conflict in those relationships, but they don't bother having any of the characters actually act reasonably. But then they frame it all like we're suppose to sympathise and relate to the characters acting like insane psychos. Well, I mean Dexter was kind of an insane psycho, so not too far out of character. But I see what you mean now.
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Sep 25, 2016 07:21
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An analysis of frame composition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNplQBbxjbw
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Sep 25, 2016 07:44
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Mr. Powers posted:Well, I mean Dexter was kind of an insane psycho, so not too far out of character. But I see what you mean now. It's like how HBO often seems to have a sex/nudity quota they have to fill? Showtime has that with relationship drama, and they're going to fill it whether it makes sense or not. And it undermines my capacity to relate to or sympathise with the characters when I realize they are occasionally going to act completely irrational for no good reason within the narrative.
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Sep 25, 2016 08:47
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at the very least, they didn't follow the original idea of the Dexter novel sequels where the Dark Passenger is a real devil-like entity who haunts him and is ahahahha i can't continue, it's so bad Dexter's relationship drama with the single mum is still really weak tho
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Sep 25, 2016 09:12
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Dexter should've been about a wannabe vigilante shaping his son's severe PTSD into serial killing. Head Harry should've been the final bad guy, and it should've ended after like three seasons.
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Sep 25, 2016 10:00
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SpaceAceJase posted:An analysis of frame composition: This was really cool, thanks for linking it 
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Sep 25, 2016 10:07
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Dexter should've followed the 2nd book. But not the 3rd. The 3rd book sucked.
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Sep 25, 2016 12:26
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sticklefifer posted:Dexter should've followed the 2nd book. But not the 3rd. The 3rd book sucked. Stop talking about Dexter. If you mention that show too often, it will come back an scratch your eyes out. 
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Sep 25, 2016 15:41
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I'm pretty sure the finale's title card, especially with the 80s almost-industrial electro music, was a nod to Gibson's "The sky was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." Apologies if someone else already figured that out, I'm still catching up on the thread.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:39
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funny way to spell posted:i was thinking something similar since it seems odd that Tyrell is always walking around in fancy suits it wouldn't surprise me if he has a beard and sunglasses and looks like a total bum and Elliott's mind turns him into the Tyrell he/we recognize you do not make eye contact with people in NYC, only tourists do that
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Sep 25, 2016 21:51
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Good finale, but Joanna is starting to become obnoxious instead of creepy. She gets the poo poo beaten out of her and she isn't remotely frazzled afterwards even with a totally bruised face. Wouldn't it be great if her cliched Machiavellian plan with framing Scott as his wife's killer turned out to completely blow back on her and just expose what a goddamn weirdo she is? And seriously rolling my eyes at some of the comments here. Between the liberal labeling of filler on drat fine entertaining storylines like the Shayla hostage arc and the creepy prison encounters and Elliot's own subsequent mindfuck, and the ridiculous fan theories that people just need to make sense otherwise they deem it bad writing in a show which is all about loving with the viewer's perception and deliberately leaving out crucial plot info until it sees fit to clarify, I'm starting to wonder if people here enjoy anything.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:57
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