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Actually I find I'm giving serious thought to running this. What could go wrong?
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Sep 24, 2016 19:00
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| # ? May 8, 2024 05:12 |
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System Setting Adventure Supplemental Product Art Other Game Writing (Reviews, game industry history, etc.) Fiction (for tie-in fiction for games) Website Writer Publisher New Designer Artist
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Sep 24, 2016 19:07
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I want to go with a little more in the way of genre/type too. Best Dungeon Crawler Best GM-less Game Best Game For Licensed Property (needs a better name, but this'll get The One Ring and Dresden Files RPG and so on) Best Box Set Best Budget Game (Print copy retails for under $15 or so) Best Translated Game (Ryuutama, In Nomine, and The Dark Eye would all be eligible in their year of publication)
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Sep 24, 2016 19:12
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Maybe categories for things like "inclusivity" and "well-managed Kickstarter."
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Sep 24, 2016 19:30
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I invite you to consider the savage arguments which will be made about which games qualify for "Best Inclusivity". Also the kickstarter one would just go to Kevin Crawford in every year in which he runs one.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:33
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I'd prefer that inclusivity/representation be baked into the criteria for things like Setting, Art, Game Writing, Fiction, probably Characters (NPCs and pregen PCs in games where that makes sense). I'd want to avoid a situation where it's ok to shove a token work into a separate category and then ignore inclusivity in the "real" awards.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:42
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Rand Brittain posted:Maybe categories for things like "inclusivity" and "well-managed Kickstarter." I don't like the idea of an "inclusivity" award because like, a lot of games are working to be more inclusive and choose The One Most Inclusive seems really weird and against the spirit of what you're trying to get across. Like, to use an irl example, who is more inclusive, a campus feminist collective that has a diverse sexuality and gender identity membership or a urban farming co-op in Detroit that has a lot more working class people and racial minorities, and what is to be gained for choosing one over the other rather than just making people aware of both? If you want to bring attention to those initiatives just include whoever you think is doing positive work, don't try to single someone out, especially because then you're going to run into situations where the product you gave the award to has wonderful depictions of racial minorities and women but still has language that makes it clear it isn't for Poor Gamers and there's no reference to differently-abled persons, and then you have to justify how the categories you picked are a better measurement of inclusiveness and boy howdy is that gonna be fun.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:43
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This is a Trad game forum, not just an RPG forum. There should probably be categories for board games, card games, and miniatures games as well. There is plenty of traffic in those areas so there is likely plenty of people well versed in them as to quality and such.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:07
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Leperflesh posted:I'm thinking about it and I think Zak is actually a unique issue. Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 24, 2016 22:29
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. Oh aren't you precious.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:34
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. Is the trap sprung? If I set out a three-part, conditional definition of "stalking," will you agree that I get to decide who meets that definition? Are douchebags constitutionally incapable of refraining from cross-examining people they disagree with online? Motherfucker posts things on G+ like "get at [some guy]" and when pressed clarifies it by telling his posse to sealion that guy. He runs stalking blogs. E: Your regdate is 9/19/16? You loving registered to post this? FOH some FUCKING LIAR fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 22:35
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. Regged on the 19th lmao. Well, you made it as long as you could, didn't you?
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Sep 24, 2016 22:48
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. Oh hello, brand new poster with one post. I'm sure you're not Zak S, or Mandy, or one of their stalwart defenders. I'm sure you're just a new member of SA, who just happened to wander into this thread of the many threads you read, and this particular conversation happened to pique your interest. Because you definitely aren't a stalker so utterly obsessed with any conversation anywhere on earth that involves you (or your cult leader) that you simply cannot help but interject, take down the names and identities of everyone involved, recorded for posterity so you can follow them around to make sure both they and anyone they ever talk to in any context knows how much you (or your cult leader) has been wronged by their terrible accusations. Hi, my name is Leperflesh and I don't care about you at all, have no opinion of your work or products, and am just trying to chat with goons about the idea of making a TG award thread and how it doesn't need to be about you in any way, so you can 
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Sep 24, 2016 22:49
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. 
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Sep 24, 2016 23:12
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There's no way it's Zak S because they're capable of actually typing a whole sentence in English instead of broken-robot-ese.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:19
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. We do know that Zak and Mandy were harassed. We also know that Mikan was completely driven out of the hobby. So, uhh, since you're close to Zak, urge him to ease up on the internet arguing, and take that energy to law school or something.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:20
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons. Hi Zak.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:47
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Well I guess both sides are equally bad and the truth is in the middle! We should probably move further discussion to the private G+ page we use to coordinate our harassment campaigns. We totally also have one of those, right?
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Sep 24, 2016 23:56
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Once again I'd just like to mention that Mandy Morbid called me out by name (among other people) as a "harasser" on her weird conspiracy blog post despite my never having once interacted with her and only ever interacting with Zak as a forum moderator. It seems pretty weird for people so touchy about being labeled as harassers themselves to try naming and shaming a bunch of folks with nothing more substantial behind it than "well they made fun of me on the internet once" but there you go.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:09
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Complaining about Monte Cook's qualities as a game designer by quoting his press releases and books he's written in threads related to game design? Stalking.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:11
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Don't touch the poop.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:18
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Kinda looks like the poop is the party doing the touching.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:23
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Zurui posted:Don't touch the poop.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:23
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LatwPIAT posted:Complaining about Monte Cook's qualities as a game designer by quoting his press releases and books he's written in threads related to game design? Stalking. If someone does something that makes you upset with them, you can do anything you want to them and all you're doing is doing the same thing as they did. Literally the attitude of a small child. He was being really really really annoying so it was reasonable for me to punch him back.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:29
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Lemon-Lime posted:There's no way it's Zak S because they're capable of actually typing a whole sentence in English instead of broken-robot-ese. zak also already has some other lurker account he uses to monitor and screencap SA threads he thinks will talk about him. so its either not him or he spent  to make another alt to post some sadly transparent attempt to keep the thread talking about him again.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:36
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FromTheStars-Dust posted:Going through all the source stuff, this seems highly disingenuous: Zak didn't follow anyone to their house, he didn't track down secret information- he didn't even ask anyone to do that- he just read what goons were saying, then criticised and linked to it. How are you qualifying "stalking?" If you can qualify that as stalking, does the gossip SA throws around about Zak and Luke Crane and Monte Cook count as "stalking?" If you're going to counter with, "Well, it resulted in death threats!" do note Zak and Mandy received death threats, as well, as a result of the actions of goons.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:31
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I've prepared a draft of the rules for our award, the Groggies: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iT-aqE36_CblnG4u8AJNuSFBq9-DMTD-o-Y9h-sBqmU/edit?usp=sharing The actual nomination and voting would most likely be handled via a webapp I will write. We'll make sure only goons participate by the webapp giving you a code (such as "01c438d548194d40b0a043efcac6cebe") which you will have to post in a thread here to validate your ballot. To pre-empt some  questions I anticipate:"How will you keep some idiot from nominating not-good games or works with no art in the Best Art category, etc etc" Well, sir/madam goon, we won't. Instead we will trust that if enough people nominate a game, it is probably worth listing as a finalist, and if enough people vote for it to win, it probably deserved to win. "John Smith has published a game which is offensive to all right-thinking people. How will you exclude it from the awards?" We will trust that goon discussion will be sufficient to keep this game from being nominated and winning. "What if John Smith organizes his fans to register and nominate his game?" We trust that Lowtax will enjoy his and that the mods will do their duty."What about card games, board games, Mafia, ping pong, or cup-and-ball?" I don't know/care enough about those, but if you want to start your own award I will be happy to affiliate with you.
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Sep 25, 2016 01:40
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inklesspen posted:"What about card games, board games, Mafia, ping pong, or cup-and-ball?" Let me be the first to heap abuse upon you: That is a bunch of crap. Trad Games on SA is for trad games, and a Trad Games game award should absolutely include categories for all of the kinds of games played in Trad Games. In particular you've apparently not accounted for (or are including in all categories) the difference between tabletop boardgames and pen-and-paper RPGs. I think there's definitely room (and at least dozens if not hundreds of goons interested in) categories for board games, card games, miniatures-based wargames, and party games. Sports can be excluded since they're clearly not within TG's domain, and I don't know how you'd give awards for new Mafia games since Mafia isn't new. In any case, "start your own award" is horseshit, this is a TG award and it's cool that you're stepping up to try and run them but if your attitude is "my ball, my game, like it or go elsewhere" I predict you are not going to get much traction. Anyway. I hope you have enjoyed your inagural heaping of criticism bordering on abuse as a reward for bothering to try. It's the trad games traditional way!
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Sep 25, 2016 01:53
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In the best game category, there are two prizes, best game and best licensed game. Is giving an award for best licensed game, essentially giving licensed games two chances for a prize rather than one, while an original game only has the one category it can win in? Should there be a best original game category? Aren't these categories at least 50% likely to overlap, or are we not considering licensed games in the best game category?
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Sep 25, 2016 01:54
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Leperflesh posted:I think there's definitely room (and at least dozens if not hundreds of goons interested in) categories for board games, card games, miniatures-based wargames, and party games. Sure! I'm just not interested in running awards for these, nor do I know anything about them. You're free to use my proposed rules or other rules and run them. remusclaw posted:In the best game category, there are two prizes, best game and best licensed game. Is giving an award for best licensed game, essentially giving licensed games two chances for a prize rather than one, while an original game only has the one category it can win in? Should there be a best original game category? Aren't these categories at least 50% likely to overlap, or are we not considering licensed games in the best game category? Good question; maybe there should be a Best Original Game. It's possible that, say, the Buckaroo Banzai game (if it ever comes out) could win Best Licensed Game and Best Game, but I think it's not likely, and I want a way to see people's opinions about good licensed games.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:04
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- A blanket exclusion of board games, card games, and war games is also a dumb idea given that they make up at least 2/3 of the traffic to this forum. - The "Groggies" is not only a loving dumb name, it will trigger resentment from the gaming community. As much as grogs.txt was a thing, no one likes being called a grognard.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:07
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Ok, who wants to handle the board/war/card games wing of the Groggies?
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Sep 25, 2016 02:13
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Gau posted:- A blanket exclusion of board games, card games, and war games is also a dumb idea given that they make up at least 2/3 of the traffic to this forum. I'm actually agreeing with Gau, mark your calendars people.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:16
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I think leaving it to a popular vote is a bad idea. (S)elect 5/7/9 judges and have them decide the winners.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:18
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I originally named them "The Grenadies". A person of note suggested "The Groggies", which was not worse, so I went with that. You don't like it? Suggest something better please. If it's to include board games and such, we need categories for those games. You want non-RPGs in the award? Step up and list the categories.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:22
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Gau posted:- The "Groggies" is not only a loving dumb name, it will trigger resentment from the gaming community. As much as grogs.txt was a thing, no one likes being called a grognard. It truly is Something Awful.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:27
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I also have no suggestions and just showed up to complain about what you did rarrrrr
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Sep 25, 2016 02:26
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Gau posted:- The "Groggies" is not only a loving dumb name, it will trigger resentment from the gaming community. As much as grogs.txt was a thing, no one likes being called a grognard. Everything triggers resentment from the game community; look at the initial and weirdly hostile response to an award thing in the space of an hour.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:28
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Traditional games award for excellence. Or the TeeGees
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Sep 25, 2016 02:30
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I mean, sure, I can suggest those categories, but you seem to have indicated you are gonna run with RPGs only regardless, so you're what, unilaterally balkanizing the just-concieved SA TG award space from the get-go? Or are you open to being part of (not necessarily self-appointed dictator of) a group effort? I do appreciate you taking the initiative, mind you... but this is not an auspicious start. e. also I intended my weird hostility to be satire of the tg community but I probably wildly failed at that, especially since my criticism itself was serious. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 02:30
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