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I've found that, if I'm in good high ground, I'm not going to be doing much repositioning, which is the only thing I can think of for a sniper with an extra action other than reloading. Also, if my sniper doesn't get a kill-shot (which becomes increasingly more likely as the game progresses), Death From Above doesn't activate; even if my pistol shot missed, Quickdraw activates. If Death From Above didn't require a killshot, I might consider it over Quickdraw, but, as is, Quickdraw is the more reliable and flexible option.
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Sep 26, 2016 01:13
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Tylana posted:and more importantly, if a sniper-specced guy has a free action after that shot, what are they going to do with it? Pick their nose? Reload is one of the first answers to your questions. Where every other class can reload at the start of the turn and then shoot, snipers need both actions to shoot so this isn't a possibility. So shooting for a kill, getting your free death from above action and then reloading is the first answer i have to your question. The second is reposition. Kill something and move up or over to somewhere more advantageous. Some people have expressed thought over finding and keeping good positioning with a sniper as difficult, this helps you get a full action with your sniper and then on top of that alleviate some of the difficulty with keeping them in a proper position. Other options include using items (throw a grenade, use a medkit, throw a scanning device, throw a mimic beacon), use a skill like (i wouldn't have these, but hey..) Faceoff or Fanfire. Or just take a normal pistol shot to follow up after the rifle shot. Anything you could accomplish with Quickdraw you can accomplish with Death From Above but better because your first shot is coming with a sniper rifle and not a pistol.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:57
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Elth posted:Or use one of those single-action AWC skills if you got lucky. Screw using actions, get actions with the magic that is AWC Run and Gun (aka, sit in place, reload and gun). Run and gun snipers with grappling hooks are really fun, since they can basically fire continuously and reposition just as fast as anyone else (in the few cases where the latter becomes necessary). They turn into a real overwatch machines, especially with with the next sniper-line skill.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:02
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My main argument against quick draw is mostly if the sniper is in range of firing the pistol it means he isnt in his intended role of long range support. At that point id have to question my life choices and wonder if i should have just taken someone else on the mission instead like another ranger or something.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:20
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Iretep posted:My main argument against quick draw is mostly if the sniper is in range of firing the pistol it means he isnt in his intended role of long range support. At that point id have to question my life choices and wonder if i should have just taken someone else on the mission instead like another ranger or something. Yeah, this is why I never really got the love of pistol sharpshooters. On any mission where I don't think I can leverage a sniper well, I just bring and extra grenadier or ranger.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:26
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Iretep posted:My main argument against quick draw is mostly if the sniper is in range of firing the pistol it means he isnt in his intended role of long range support. At that point id have to question my life choices and wonder if i should have just taken someone else on the mission instead like another ranger or something. Pistol sharpshooters are for packing blue screen rounds and firing around 5 times a round into a sectopod.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:37
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Also fire rounds, for the fun experience of "suddenly everyone is on fire" You can also use AP rounds for their ability to bypass armor, making armored enemies a total breeze.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:59
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I prefer to mix and match my sharpshooters since I don't find a lot of the sniper skills to be super useful with my playstyle or XCOM 2s fuckload of timed missions. I usually only end up taking long watch/death from above and the major skill from sniper side, then its a bit of a tossup at colonel depending on where I want to specialize.
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Sep 26, 2016 06:14
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Gunslinger's main advantage (how much of an advantage it is depends on the fight and the playstyle) is that you can spread the damage around in ways other classes can't. At its peak you either get five shots (three of them into one guy) or two shots and one into everything, so if you don't NEED railgun nukes it can be more efficient. Understandably, this is less useful the more you can control fights to just have a couple of guys at a time.
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Sep 26, 2016 06:18
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So, not being able to effectively play XCOM, it sounds like Pistol snipers are meant to spread the
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Sep 26, 2016 07:00
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Ashsaber posted:So, not being able to effectively play XCOM, it sounds like Pistol snipers are meant to spread the The nice part about the rounds is that it's possible to get several types; it might take a while but you can get the ones you want eventually. Even if you don't get quite the ones you want, there is more than one type of ammo useful for a pistol sniper. And I really have had nothing but good luck with a pistol sniper, but I'll have to see what Jade does with the other side of the tree.
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Sep 26, 2016 07:11
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Zomborgon posted:Screw using actions, get actions with the magic that is AWC Run and Gun (aka, sit in place, reload and gun). Run+gun snipers are fantastic. One of the best tricks is getting a Death From Above kill, then using run+gun. The sniper then has 2 actions and can shoot again.
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Sep 26, 2016 08:26
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Clearly the best solution is to take a team of all pistol snipers, each with a different kind of special ammo. You'll win, just through sheer number of bullets shot per round! 
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Sep 26, 2016 08:47
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Jade Star posted:Anything you could accomplish with Quickdraw you can accomplish with Death From Above but better because your first shot is coming with a sniper rifle and not a pistol. Except this is all predicated on your sniper having higher ground and making a kill shot. Quickdraw can be used at any elevation without killing or even hitting anything. Potential damage output is lower on a sniper than it would be on a gunslinger and range may be an issue, but it is significantly more flexible. I guess the choice is less about damage and more about flexibility and reliability.
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Sep 26, 2016 12:41
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If you don't have a sniper on elevated ground to begin with, even with out the death from above perk, you're either doing it wrong, or going all in gunslinger to begin with so why bother considering death from above anyway?
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Sep 26, 2016 13:07
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seaborgium posted:The nice part about the rounds is that it's possible to get several types; it might take a while but you can get the ones you want eventually. Even if you don't get quite the ones you want, there is more than one type of ammo useful for a pistol sniper. Yeah, there really isn't a shortage of Elerium Cores. I just did a Supply Raid and walked off with five of the buggers. I do prefer the Proving Grounds unlock mod, though. I think that and True Retroactive AWC are the only non-cosmetic mods I actually run. I kinda hope we do get to see a fully kitted out gunslinger, though, because I usually build my sharpshooters like Jade. I use them as my cleanup crew. Expanded Magazines and Auto-Loaders are godsends on sniper builds.
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Sep 26, 2016 13:21
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Yeah if there's one weapon mod i consider essential for any class, it's autoloaders for Marksman. Being able to reload then shoot a set number of times a mission regardless of conditions is great, especially for lower ranking guys.
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Sep 26, 2016 17:40
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I can attest that there is nothing more infuriating than allowing a legendary enemy to escape because you can't kill it before all your dudes have to reload. Those things really soak up bullets!
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Sep 26, 2016 17:44
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Jade Star posted:You can not use quickdraw to fire a pistol and then still make a sniper shot. Sniper rifles require both action points to use. You're using quickdraw and a pistol to accomplish the exact thing that you can do without quickdraw if you reload before firing, too.
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Sep 26, 2016 17:46
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I'm going to be honest here, I find snipers incredibly dull and annoying because snipers are in one of two states for me: either they're way the gently caress back and attempting to pick off dudes from extreme range (and usually failing because they're at extreme range), or they're not and they're almost a complete liability as they attempt to keep up with the rest of the group because you can't fire their death gun on the move.
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Sep 26, 2016 19:10
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Jade Star posted:If you don't have a sniper on elevated ground to begin with, even with out the death from above perk, you're either doing it wrong, or going all in gunslinger to begin with so why bother considering death from above anyway? Or there's something blocking their line of sight and you have to reposition, or like someone said you're at "extreme range" and the squadsight penalty is way too high, that kind of thing can make it a lot less reliable. There's a lot of maps where there are just a ton of buildings that you can't see the other side of. Death from above is useless in that situation, but having a gunslinger means they can keep up and still do damage. They still have the option of sniping, but if they can't see anything then at least they can move and do more than just one pistol shot. And there's something to be said for a gunslinger that can hit a lot of enemies for a few hit points each. It's a spoiler enemy, but having an extra two or three shots can save an encounter with one if things go not so well or you have some bad rng.
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Sep 26, 2016 19:38
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Materant posted:I'm going to be honest here, I find snipers incredibly dull and annoying because snipers are in one of two states for me: either they're way the gently caress back and attempting to pick off dudes from extreme range (and usually failing because they're at extreme range), or they're not and they're almost a complete liability as they attempt to keep up with the rest of the group because you can't fire their death gun on the move. My first playthrough I went all-in on the Sniper tree. Those guys worked out fine - Kill Zone is the best part of that tree - but it's fiddly and the snipers are usually way back or wasting their turns, as you said. Second and subsequent playthroughs I've gone all-in Gunslinger, and it's much more fun. Lightning Hands + a standard shot on its own can put a world of hurt on an enemy; with bluescreen rounds my Gunslingers are the designated anti-mech units. And Faceoff is much cooler than Kill Zone.
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Sep 26, 2016 22:41
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Apparently you can fire a sniper rifle after moving with Run & Gun. That's not a thing you can ever count on a sniper getting through AWC, but if they get it they're basically king poo poo of the mountain I guess.
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Sep 26, 2016 22:50
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Materant posted:Apparently you can fire a sniper rifle after moving with Run & Gun. That's not a thing you can ever count on a sniper getting through AWC, but if they get it they're basically king poo poo of the mountain I guess. My first game, my sniper got Hail of Bullets. That can be used after blue moving, too, if you have the ammo.
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Sep 26, 2016 23:12
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I'm surprised you are both so into countering the breakthrough dark events. They, like all (almost all?) other sources of avatar, are completely removable later. That combined with being able to run down the clock, I consider the breakthroughs a free space to counter something else.
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Sep 26, 2016 23:16
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Running down the clock is more unwise after one of the patches.
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Sep 26, 2016 23:18
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Xenoborg posted:I'm surprised you are both so into countering the breakthrough dark events. They, like all (almost all?) other sources of avatar, are completely removable later. That combined with being able to run down the clock, I consider the breakthroughs a free space to counter something else. The key word is LATER. I exdpect at some point Jade will 'show off' the clock. Keeping the clock low means you're more able to deal with other things the game throws at you. And kind of set the pace. if it goes high, the clock sets the pace which can lose you the game. Plus only the clock can actually game over you. Everything else just slows you down.
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Sep 26, 2016 23:38
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Veloxyll posted:The key word is LATER. I exdpect at some point Jade will 'show off' the clock. Keeping the clock low means you're more able to deal with other things the game throws at you. And kind of set the pace. if it goes high, the clock sets the pace which can lose you the game. Everything else includes resource gain time. One of these playthroughs I'm going to actually do the story at a decent pace instead of waiting to get everything; it will cut down the mission count by maybe a third.
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Sep 26, 2016 23:40
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Lunethex posted:Running down the clock is more unwise after one of the patches. 
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Sep 27, 2016 00:22
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it does not reset
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Sep 27, 2016 00:28
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AriadneThread posted:it does not reset So basically if the clock has 30 days on it and you stop it on 7 days left you would still have 7 days once you pushed it into the red zone again?
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Sep 27, 2016 00:32
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Rick_Hunter posted:So basically if the clock has 30 days on it and you stop it on 7 days left you would still have 7 days once you pushed it into the red zone again? yes, you can no longer ride the wave of doom for effectively infinite time
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Sep 27, 2016 00:35
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There is a minimum countdown time, though, at about 7 days. So, each time you fill it up, you had better have a reduction source lined up.
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Sep 27, 2016 01:03
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Yeah, 7 days is a very small amount of time in XCOM days, not something I'd recommend doing now.
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Sep 27, 2016 01:15
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Lunethex posted:Yeah, 7 days is a very small amount of time in XCOM days, not something I'd recommend doing now. 7 days is enough time to just barely unlock one territory and assault a base. If you have to fly around the world or do more than one territory though, you're screwed, yes.
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Sep 27, 2016 01:24
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Personally I feel like that was a really mean and lovely change, but it makes the game more challenging and I guess that's what they're going for. 
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Sep 27, 2016 01:46
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CJacobs posted:Personally I feel like that was a really mean and lovely change, but it makes the game more challenging and I guess that's what they're going for. I mean it made the Doom Clock go from "completely irrelevant" to "only mostly irrelevant" so I kind of see where they were going with it. You would have had to actually try to lose under the old system.
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Sep 27, 2016 11:39
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Sure, but overcorrecting balance issues seems to be the main aim of XCOM 2's development. If something was too easy, now it's too hard. If something was too forgiving, now it's too punishing. imo they haven't found a good middle ground in almost anything that has changed since the game came out.
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Sep 27, 2016 12:04
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If you know what you are doing, you'd keep a facility lead around in case you need to do an avatar progress mission in a hurry.
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Sep 27, 2016 12:23
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CJacobs posted:Sure, but overcorrecting balance issues seems to be the main aim of XCOM 2's development. If something was too easy, now it's too hard. If something was too forgiving, now it's too punishing. imo they haven't found a good middle ground in almost anything that has changed since the game came out. eg: the insane action economy demands of Lord Snakeman.
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Sep 27, 2016 12:34
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