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Are birth certificates really issued (a) that long and (b) on lined paper for schoolchildren? and (c) they have to write every single goddamn thing? even birth certificates in the 1800s were mostly pre-printed with little bits to fill in like the date and such. I mean it's so terrible looking I can only imagine it's real. Also that writing is almost indecipherable and it reminds me a lot of Maduro's own signature. Maybe he's not illiterate and that's just how Venezuelans learn cursive. Seriously they hand-write an entire loving page for birth certificates on lovely lined paper?
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Sep 18, 2016 12:09
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Saladman posted:Are birth certificates really issued (a) that long and (b) on lined paper for schoolchildren? and (c) they have to write every single goddamn thing? even birth certificates in the 1800s were mostly pre-printed with little bits to fill in like the date and such. My own birth certificate was typewritten, but that's of course a lot more recent. I've seen my father's birth certificate though and while it was handwritten, it was done a lot more formally, it was also properly stamped by the registry office, it has like 7 different seals on it. Considering that he's around as old as Maduro, perhaps even older, the paper it's written on and the fact it seems to be written in loving pencil is another irregularity. The length is normal however, these types of documents are deliberately verbose because they repeat themselves over and over. fnox fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 13:40
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Oh yeah, I can confirm that research permits in Latin America are works of art in this regard due to their relentless repetition.
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Sep 18, 2016 20:41
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I saw this today, and I initially laughed a little because it reminds me of the Anti-Imperialism thread that got go home ball'd here earlier. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-18/maduro-s-biggest-event-plays-to-handfuls-of-anti-imperialists
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Sep 19, 2016 01:36
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On Friday, PDVSA offered investors a bond swap worth $7.1 billion from bonds due in 2017 to bonds due in 2020, and put its shares of Citgo up as collateral. Finance isn't my thing, but from what I understand this means that PDVSA told investors, "Remember that money we'd promise to pay you in 2017? Give us til 2020 and we'll make it worth your while". S&P has downgraded PDVSA's rating from CCC to CC (which means "highly vulnerable to nonpayment"), and called the bond swap offer "tantamount to default". Since Venezuela makes over 90% of its money from oil sales (all of which go through PDVSA), a bankrupt PDVSA means a bankrupt Venezuela. Kavros posted:I saw this today, and I initially laughed a little because it reminds me of the Anti-Imperialism thread that got go home ball'd here earlier. The government isn't saying how many heads of state actually showed up, but Henrique Capriles and an opposition deputy have said that no more than 15 showed up. Like the article says, the ones who did show up were the usual suspects: Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, Robert Mugabe, Raul Castro, etc. It's also really telling that India didn't send her head of state, which is only the second time since 1961 that the country has missed a summit.
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Sep 20, 2016 01:51
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Chuck Boone posted:On Friday, PDVSA offered investors a bond swap worth $7.1 billion from bonds due in 2017 to bonds due in 2020, and put its shares of Citgo up as collateral. Does this actually mean anything, given their willingness to nationalise poo poo? "Here's your shares... and now we're taking them back again."
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Sep 20, 2016 02:28
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The Lone Badger posted:Does this actually mean anything, given their willingness to nationalise poo poo? I don't think Venezuela can nationalize shares in Citgo, as it's a separate American company that PDVSA currently owns all of. If they sell off huge chunks of it, there's no real means for the Venezuelan government to take them back without consent of the US court system. Now of course, Venezuela could gently caress with CItgo's operations with their majority share that they'd still have through PDVSA, and that could lower the value of the shares by quite a lot. But they wouldn't be worthless or anything.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:42
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fishmech posted:Now of course, Venezuela could gently caress with CItgo's operations with their majority share that they'd still have through PDVSA, and that could lower the value of the shares by quite a lot. But they wouldn't be worthless or anything. From what I read, they actually offered 50.1% as collateral – the problem is they could still saddle it with debt or other such shenanigans long before anyone comes to collect. Additionally, the bonds due in 2020 would hardly be worth any more than those due in 2017. I'm not sure what the exact interest rate is, but people are basically calling it a 1:1 swap.
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Sep 20, 2016 03:39
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A new Nicolas Casey article in the NYTimes, this time about the oil industry: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/21/world/americas/venezuela-oil-economy.html?_r=0 I'm amazed he hasn't been kicked out of the country yet, after coming up on a year of reporting on what a disaster the PSUV's management is.
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Sep 20, 2016 11:31
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fishmech posted:I don't think Venezuela can nationalize shares in Citgo, as it's a separate American company that PDVSA currently owns all of. If they sell off huge chunks of it, there's no real means for the Venezuelan government to take them back without consent of the US court system. Interesting. I just assumed that Venezuela didn't own any major assets outside of their own country for risk of getting them seized. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why haven't individuals and companies for whom Venezuela has outstanding debt or that have had assets nationalized in Venezuela gone after Citgo shares in US courts?
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Sep 20, 2016 15:05
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I dont know posted:Interesting. I just assumed that Venezuela didn't own any major assets outside of their own country for risk of getting them seized. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why haven't individuals and companies for whom Venezuela has outstanding debt or that have had assets nationalized in Venezuela gone after Citgo shares in US courts? Citgo shares don't really exist right now, as the company became 100% owned by PDVSA in 1990. And I don't think you can force a company to create and then give you shares in normal court proceedings to try to punish the company that owns it? Like, the United States could forcibly nationalize the company, and then sell off shares of it, but that would be very unlikely to happen. Citgo would probably have to go and cause problems for people itself, in order for seizing Citgo assets or ownership to be a viable thing. Labradoodle posted:From what I read, they actually offered 50.1% as collateral – the problem is they could still saddle it with debt or other such shenanigans long before anyone comes to collect. Ah, I didn't realize they were offering a majority share. That'd put Venezuelan ownership below 50% for the first time since 1986.
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Sep 20, 2016 16:44
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A baby in a box!!! lol this loving country what a shithole
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Sep 21, 2016 20:42
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El Hefe posted:A baby in a box!!! 
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Sep 21, 2016 21:38
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Apparently, the SEBIN (our version of a secret police corps) already asked some of the doctors from the Anzoategui public hospital where that photo was taken to come in for questioning because, you know, taking pictures that paint the public system in a negative light is the work of coupsters or some poo poo. They've been busy this week after also arresting a bunch of activists that worked in the production of this video aimed towards the military to dissuade them from repressing protestors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7OMAtNOmIo Those people are being charged with military crimes, which is blatantly illegal, but the government just can't be bothered to put up with pretenses anymore. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 22:07
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zimboe posted:A meta-observation: Are you a neural net?
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Sep 21, 2016 23:33
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The next step of the recall referendum was just approved with the worst possible conditions for the opposition. They must now collect at least 20% of the signatures of all voters within each state for the recall to proceed – the exact same trick the electoral council tacked onto the 1% recollection. To this end, the council will provide approximately 5000 fingerprinting machines spread throughout the country, about a fourth of those the opposition requested and only a little over a thousand collection centers (out of nearly 20,000 available for electoral procedures) will be open. The process is overtly designed to bait the opposition into accepting, knowing these conditions make it impossible to collect the necessary signatures during the three days allotted – October 26, 27, and 28 – due to sheer bottlenecking. Furthermore, the electoral council went ahead and said that if they succeed, they'd need 90 days before the recall went ahead, not including the time they need to "verify" the signatures. Honestly, the recall referendum has been dead since the opposition made it clear they wouldn't press the government for fair conditions, but this is the final nail in its coffin. Even if they pull off a miracle and manage to collect the 20% in these conditions, the PSUV remains in power if the recall referendum is held in 2017.
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Sep 22, 2016 01:32
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I want to add a bit to what Labradoodle said to stress what a naked, ugly, undeniably dictatorial move this is. Let me start with a quick recap: the recall referendum is a electoral mechanism outlined in Article 72 of the Constitution. Full stop. The article very clearly states that the collection of signatures has to happen "in the pertinent circumscription". That clearly means that if you're recalling a mayor, you need to collect the signatures from the municipality; if you're recalling a governor, you need to collect the signatures from the state, and if you're recalling the president you need to collect the signatures from the national voter registry. This is because the president is elected from among all registered voters at the national level. On election day, everyone votes and the CNE counts the votes. The candidate that wins the most votes becomes president, regardless of how many votes came from which state. First, right off the bat, the CNE is spitting on the Constitution and in the face of every Venezuelan when it asks for the signatures to be collected per state. Why the CNE is demanding this is obvious: if the MUD manages to collect signatures from 20% registered voters in 22 states, but only manages to collect signatures from 19.99% of voters in one state, the recall fails. Second, the CNE gave the MUD 30 working days to collect signatures from 1% of registered voters (a total of 195,721 signatures). When the MUD collected close to two million signatures and gave them to the CNE within a week, the CNE refused to look at the them and instead told the MUD that they had to wait the full 30 working days before verifying the signatures because that's how much time the MUD had been given. Now, the CNE has given the MUD just three days to collect signatures from 20% of registered voters (a total of 3,959,553 signatures). This process is substantially more difficult because of the by-state collection demand. I think that the PSUV/Maduro/the CNE are hoping that one of four things will happen as a result of this nonsense:
The MUD is going to hold a press conference in the next little while to talk about what to do now. Like Labradoodle said, this is the final nail. If the MUD is every going say, "We've all had enough of this nonsense and we refuse to play along any longer", now is the time.
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Sep 22, 2016 04:15
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Chuck Boone posted:Like Labradoodle said, this is the final nail. I have to say, Venezuela has an absolute poo poo ton of final nails. You could probably assemble the Titanic with all of them. Too bad they're inedible.
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Sep 22, 2016 08:49
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Hi To hell with final or non final nails, leave those to Square Enix. How far down the Somalification hole is Venezuela.
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Sep 22, 2016 10:10
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The reason there appear to be so many "final nails" is because we're watching a country collapse in real time. As we've seen, this process tends to be spread out over time. Also, it involves the collapse of many individual parts (the judicial system, the economy, the legislature, the rule of law, etc.). In other words, the collapse doesn't happen all at once in a single site or through a single event: it happens over time through a series of relatively small but related events. There was the faintest hope that the CNE would do the right thing and let the recall happen as it should. Call the hope naive, but it was there. That hope died last night, hence "the final nail" for the recall referendum. There will be other final nails –for elections in general in Venezuela, for press freedom, for the separation of the civil and military spheres – as we continue to watch the country collapse.
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Sep 22, 2016 12:48
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My only remaining hope is that people eventually realize they can band together without the MUD and actually get something done. The MUD is so desperately loving hopeless they're actually celebrating right now that the date for the 20% signature collection was announced. A year ago we loving gave them a super majority in the National Assembly explicitly so they would trigger a change in government, they allowed that to be stripped away from them without a fight, they're complicit in this disaster.
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Sep 22, 2016 13:05
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fnox posted:My only remaining hope is that people eventually realize they can band together without the MUD and actually get something done. The MUD is so desperately loving hopeless they're actually celebrating right now that the date for the 20% signature collection was announced. As much as I agree with the rest of your assessment, the MUD is certainly not celebrating the announcement. Last night the consensus was pretty much "This is some hosed up poo poo, we need some time to figure out how to proceed, but we know we just got the shaft". Chuck Boone posted:There will be other final nails –for elections in general in Venezuela, for press freedom, for the separation of the civil and military spheres – as we continue to watch the country collapse. I think we may be getting a glimpse of the first right now. Yesterday another PSUV official let it slip that the government was in no position to hold gubernatorial elections – which were scheduled for this December – due to a lack of funds. If I were to bet, I'd say there won't be elections of any kind soon, until there is a shift in power at least. The government knows it couldn't win elections for a condo association, and they won't take any risks. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 13:33
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Labradoodle posted:I think we may be getting a glimpse of the first right now. Yesterday another PSUV official let it slip that the government was in no position to hold gubernatorial elections – which were scheduled for this December – due to a lack of funds. Cute. That's exactly the same reason that DR Congo is giving to not hold the upcoming presidential elections that would require Kabila to bypass the constitutional term limits. The PSUV has no shortage of wonderful examples to follow.
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Sep 22, 2016 15:26
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El Hefe posted:A baby in a box!!! This could be the first implementation of the world leading Finnish Baby Box system!
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Sep 22, 2016 17:54
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Playstation 4 posted:Hi To hell with final or non final nails, leave those to Square Enix. Right before Siad Barre starts losing power, so say 1990
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Sep 22, 2016 18:48
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Labradoodle posted:I think we may be getting a glimpse of the first right now. Yesterday another PSUV official let it slip that the government was in no position to hold gubernatorial elections – which were scheduled for this December – due to a lack of funds. If I were to bet, I'd say there won't be elections of any kind soon, until there is a shift in power at least. The government knows it couldn't win elections for a condo association, and they won't take any risks. quote:We’re living through an economic crisis (…) elections are not a fundamental right. A fundamental right is food, medicine, health. The MUD's been slowly reacting to last night's news. Jesus Torrealba said that they're being deliberately careful and slow with their next announcement because they realize it will be a big one. He also called for unity because the government's trying to split the MUD up with these kinds of announcements, and that the MUD couldn't completely abandon the referendum because that would be letting Maduro off the hook. It sounds like they're going to try to get a protest campaign going to force the CNE to hold the referendum this year. By the way, there is nothing in the regulation that says that the recall can't happen this year. The regulation says that the CNE has to hold a referendum "within 90 days" of the successful collection of signatures from 20% of voters. Since the collection of the signatures will happen at the end of October, the CNE could hold the referendum as early as December 1 if it really wanted to. Instead, it's choosing to wait the maximum amount of time allowed to hold it, but there's no practical, logistical, legal or otherwise good reason to do that.
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Sep 22, 2016 19:09
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The whole problem lies in how the opposition has lost any legitimacy that they had, they didn't fight the TSJ like they should have, now there's no legal way to get rid of Maduro, they allowed the constitutional reform to die in favor of the referendum despite warnings that the recall referendum procedure was added by Chavez into the 1999 constitution so he could live through political crises just like he did in 2004, they allowed the TSJ to remove any legal power the National Assembly had because their quarrel has always been with the CNE, , they allowed the 1% signature collection to happen which is the whole reason why there isn't enough time for the referendum anymore despite it having no grounds in the constitution and despite it creating basically a repeat of the Lista Tascon. The opposition leadership is useless, loving useless. They've shown again and again how incompetent they are, and there will not be a change of government with their horribly inadequate responses to the as horrid despotism of Maduro. gently caress they even failed at getting even one of the things they asked from the government at their "negotiations", there's more political prisoners now and less chance the referendum will be done this year. fnox fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 19:39
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Chuck Boone posted:Torrealba said that they're being deliberately careful and slow with their next announcement because they realize it will be a big onedo that. It feels like they're being deliberately careful and slow because they don't want to stick their necks out and risk the good thing they have going as the part of the PSUV charged with limiting unrest by directing it to worthless pursuits.
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Sep 22, 2016 19:48
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Chuck Boone posted:By the way, there is nothing in the regulation that says that the recall can't happen this year. The regulation says that the CNE has to hold a referendum "within 90 days" of the successful collection of signatures from 20% of voters. Since the collection of the signatures will happen at the end of October, the CNE could hold the referendum as early as December 1 if it really wanted to. Instead, it's choosing to wait the maximum amount of time allowed to hold it, but there's no practical, logistical, legal or otherwise good reason to do that. It doesn't matter anyway as proven with the first step of the process. Even if the constitution said within 30 days, it'd still take them 90 days to do it. It's pointless to still think by the rule book or that the laws have any meaning. I mean if you're MUD you have to deal with it, but as a civilian it's kind of a waste of time. It's like playing a game with a 4 year old -- they're just making it up as they go along so they win the game.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:52
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Chuck Boone posted:We’re living through an economic crisis (…) elections are not a fundamental right. A fundamental right is food, medicine, health. So he's admitting that the PSUV is unable to provide for Venezuelan's fundamental rights?
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Sep 22, 2016 20:55
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Saladman posted:It doesn't matter anyway as proven with the first step of the process. Even if the constitution said within 30 days, it'd still take them 90 days to do it. Mozi posted:So he's admitting that the PSUV is unable to provide for Venezuelan's fundamental rights? 
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Sep 22, 2016 21:24
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The MUD made its much awaited reply this morning to the CNE's announcement last week on the recall referendum. Last week, the CNE said that the recall could not happen this year, and that (contrary to what the Constitution say) the MUD had to collect signatures from 20% of registered voters per state as opposed to just 20% of voters at the national level. The MUD said that it was going to go ahead and collect the signatures anyway, but based on what the Constitution says. This sounds like they're going to ignore the "20% by state" requirement. They also said that they would mount pressure through protests to have the recall happen this year. It's going to be interesting to see how that develops because all of the protests that have happened so far have done apparently nothing to stop Maduro/the PSUV/the CNE from doing whatever they want to. Here's my translation of the MUD press release from this morning: quote:The people will force the regime to follow the Constitution. The MUD was backed into a tricky corner. I think the government wanted the MUD to throw its hands up in the air and give up on the recall, which would have been a disaster. I'm not sure what's going to happen if the MUD collects over 4 million signatures and the CNE throws them all out by saying "sorry, you didn't follow our rules". I think the cost of doing that would be really high for the PSUV, but I also think they would do it without much hesitation.
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Sep 26, 2016 22:51
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Chuck Boone posted:I think the cost of doing that would be really high for the PSUV. I'd like to believe that, but I can't. What cost? More voter disapproval? More... worthless protests? It's not like the army or anyone controlling the PDVSA or anyone with actual power or relevance is going to change their minds because of it, nor will it affect the ~20% of Venezuelans who seem to be diehard Chavistas despite the overwhelming burden of reality crushing them. They're just going to follow the CNE's idiocy and whatever excuse they come up with even in the essentially impossible chance of the people actually collecting 20% of validated signatures per state, and if the Venezuelan people don't manage the CNE's rules, then it will be "proof" for a large enough minority to keep up the charade. It might go through to the next stage because the PSUV might decide it's worth it to kick their problem down the road a few months rather than the extremely low chance people will meaningfully protest if the recall referendum is actually stopped. The chance of this happening before late January 2017 is a solid 0% though. And then what? Two more years of PSUV with another 0% chance of policy change, since I doubt Maduro is calling many of the shots or setting any policy. Oil prices aren't going to drop any further (nor do I expect they will they rise much, thanks to fracking), and it looks like Venezuela can keep itself at this pace indefinitely. It looks like it's going to be the first massive human clinical trial of the effects of caloric restriction on human health ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction ).
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Sep 27, 2016 10:13
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How will it keep itself at this pace indefinitely? The economy is a shambles, and people are beginning to starve. If nothing, I'd say the pace of this is accelerating. The hungrier the people get, the more a revolutionary mood will ferment. Even if the current limp-dicked opposition continues with ineffectual protests, eventually someone else is going to step up to the plate. There's serious opportunity to be the next leader of Venezuela, all it requires is an organization willing to light the match.
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Sep 27, 2016 10:43
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Even if Venezuala does get an election, do you really expect the PSUV to give up power? Fear of retribution from a regime change has to be pretty present in the minds of the PSUV.
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Sep 27, 2016 13:44
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JohnGalt posted:Even if Venezuala does get an election, do you really expect the PSUV to give up power? Fear of retribution from a regime change has to be pretty present in the minds of the PSUV. Us Venezuelans have a long standing tradition of what we call "raspar la olla". Every time there is a change in government the nation's coffers are sacked by the leaving party, you know, as a reward for a job well done. PSUVistas want cash, not power, power allows them to get cash but they'll choose money over anything.
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Sep 27, 2016 14:06
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A White Guy posted:How will it keep itself at this pace indefinitely? The economy is a shambles, and people are beginning to starve. If nothing, I'd say the pace of this is accelerating. The hungrier the people get, the more a revolutionary mood will ferment. Even if the current limp-dicked opposition continues with ineffectual protests, eventually someone else is going to step up to the plate. There's serious opportunity to be the next leader of Venezuela, all it requires is an organization willing to light the match. I wish I were as optimistic as you, but at this point I have a hard time imagining Venezuela not turning into Zimbabwe.
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Sep 27, 2016 15:15
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Half of Venezuelan children not getting three square meals Half of children in oil-rich Venezuela are receiving a maximum of two meals a day, making it hard for them to attend school, a new survey has found. The findings by More Consulting, a research firm, found that 50 per cent of parents were only feeding their children one or two meals a day as a result of food shortages caused by an ongoing financial crisis. Venezuela has some of the world largest oil reserves but has been left reeling by the collapse in world crude prices and decades of economic mismanagement by socialist governments founded by the late charismatic leader Hugo Chazez .Nicolas Maduro, who took over from Chavez, is facing mounting criticism after hosting a Non-Aligned Movement summit worth millions of dollars last weekend, and was recently heard to joke about the benefits of the “Maduro diet”. With inflation forecast to hit 480% this year, ordinary citizens face spending hours in supermarket queues to purchase subsidised goods, leaving those who cannot afford the prices to sift rubbish dumps for food. The survey was conducted from a national sample of 767 parents throughout the country ahead of the new school year which starts on September 26 leaving both politicians, parents and teachers fretting over the future of the country’s children. ..... “Her family hadn’t eaten in three days,” she explained. In some of Pernalete’s schools children have fainted during school hours, young boys are dropping out to work and earn money and some football teams have had to stop training because the players are malnourished. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/25/half-of-venezuela-children-go-hungry/
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Sep 27, 2016 20:42
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A White Guy posted:How will it keep itself at this pace indefinitely? The economy is a shambles, and people are beginning to starve. If nothing, I'd say the pace of this is accelerating. The hungrier the people get, the more a revolutionary mood will ferment. Even if the current limp-dicked opposition continues with ineffectual protests, eventually someone else is going to step up to the plate. There's serious opportunity to be the next leader of Venezuela, all it requires is an organization willing to light the match. honestly this, it cant go on forever. I think what will happen is a Mohamed Bouazizi like situation (except maybe the PSUV goons will kill him/her) and poo poo will rapidly escalate from there. These people are only starting to starve and they are already breaking into private zoos to eat horses and animals. eventually poo poo going to get worse and a spark will happen then all debts will be repaid in full and the PSUV is gonna learn the hard way.
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Sep 27, 2016 21:39
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In recall referendum news, the electoral council apparently dictated that citizens must undergo fingerprint verification for four fingers, instead of the usual single-digit during elections. Despite this, they haven't seen fit to extend the process for longer than the allotted three days or open more voting centers – at this point, they're taking what was already a ridiculous bottleneck and shoving more poo poo in just for giggles. Living here gives you a thick skin for ridiculous rulings, but this is honestly one of the stupidest things I've heard. It's right up there with the made up rule of collecting 20% of the voter's signatures from each state.
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Sep 27, 2016 23:33
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