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Yeah, I love the new split trees, and I wish they would have done even more with this. I think that having religion be a different system than culture has prevented them from truly making culture more interesting and powerful. In my mind "they are worshiping our gods" should not be mechanically different than "they are watching our movies" or "they are wearing our blue jeans". Maybe in Civ 7 
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Sep 28, 2016 11:40
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Saladin of Arabia today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Jpe5NID60 Leader - Saladin National Ability - The Last Prophet - When the next to last great prophet is claimed, they automatically receive the last one. Leader Ability - Righteousness of the Faith - Worship building for the Arabian faith is very cheap, and produces bonus science, faith and culture. Unique Unit - Mamluk - Heals at the end of every turn, despite moving or attacking. Unique Infrastructure - Madrassa - Generates more science than the university, and it provides faith depending on the campus adjacency bonus.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:17
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Saladin wasn't even remotely from Arabia but whatever. I guess they can't make Mohammed a leader.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:19
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2 science abilities? jeez also the youtube description had sumeria in it before they changed it, so i guess that's next
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Sep 28, 2016 15:21
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Davincie posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0gQJRy1Jw
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Sep 28, 2016 15:23
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ack!
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Sep 28, 2016 15:24
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I wonder if there's more to the "last prophet" ability. By itself it seems of limited value, but if it was combined with Bynzantine's bonus from Vox Populi (select beliefs chosen by other Civs) it would be a lot more useful.The Human Crouton posted:Is that when he used the advantage of not being attacked by aliens to set units near alien nests and force them to attack another player because the could only move toward that player? I seem to recall using invincible-to-aliens recon units to protect civilians and such.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:38
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Magil Zeal posted:I wonder if there's more to the "last prophet" ability. By itself it seems of limited value, but if it was combined with Bynzantine's bonus from Vox Populi (select beliefs chosen by other Civs) it would be a lot more useful. Depending on how exactly it works, I could see it being useful in potentially two ways: guaranteeing that Arabia always gets a great prophet no matter what, and/or potentially giving them two great prophets.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:45
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Next up should be Russia (Peter) then Gorgo
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Sep 28, 2016 15:49
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Cythereal posted:Depending on how exactly it works, I could see it being useful in potentially two ways: guaranteeing that Arabia always gets a great prophet no matter what, and/or potentially giving them two great prophets. The problem with two Great Prophets is that so far all evidence we've seen suggests that there is no use for Great Prophets other than founding a religion. That may not be the case, but it's what all the videos and screenshots suggest. It's very nice for being guaranteed a religion, but having the last religion does come with the not-insignificant downside of having a short list of beliefs to choose from.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:50
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I figured they ported over religion from Civ5 and added religious combat. So, the next Prophet should enhance if that's the case then again I didn't watch the religion video so I dunno.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:53
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Khagan posted:I figured they ported over religion from Civ5 and added religious combat. So, the next Prophet should enhance if that's the case then again I didn't watch the religion video so I dunno. It doesn't work that way anymore. Apostles evangelize new beliefs, not prophets. By all accounts you can't even get a prophet if you already have gotten one. Which does raise the question as to what good great prophet points are after you already have generated a prophet. Certain wonders generate great prophet points but can only be built if you have founded a religion, so it'd seem like there was some use for them.
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Sep 28, 2016 15:57
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It says in that video that the ability only kicks in if they haven't already gotten one.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:02
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That does allow you to not put any effort into religion and still pick one up, but you're at the mercy of what beliefs are left for how good it is.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:11
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Wacky Delly posted:It says in that video that the ability only kicks in if they haven't already gotten one. Man, that's dumb.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:13
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Magil Zeal posted:It's very nice for being guaranteed a religion, but having the last religion does come with the not-insignificant downside of having a short list of beliefs to choose from. In Civ V, getting into the religion race means that you sacrifice things like growth (granary), culture (monument) or exploring capability (scouts) for a few turns, and then you are still at the mercy of other people getting ahead of you due to things that are not in your control (goodie huts, religious CS). It's a gamble with a non-insignificant cost, and the absolute best outcome is that you get to pick a bonus first. Having a religion guarantee means that you can focus and get stronger on other areas, as if your strategy was already based on not getting a religion, and then also getting one for free! Of course, it might not end up being the Civ of choice for people who want a religious victory, but it's still a good bonus for a Civ to have. I will seriously consider playing as Arabia, as I absolutely hate the religion race, but I also don't like being locked out of game mechanics.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:31
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Gabriel Pope posted:Man, that's dumb.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:37
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Arabia is also a distinctly science-oriented civilization, a nice homage to the Islamic Golden Age, so it looks to me like Arabia is a good choice for playing a science-focused game that's also guaranteed to found a religion along the way. Shades of the Maya in 5.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:41
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sarmhan posted:It's great. It means you can ignore the early religion race and focus on every other aspect of your empire. The problem is that you're 100% dependent on other civs for your payout. If you're waiting for everyone else to burn through the prophet stack and they're taking their time, you miss out, and if you get impatient and grow your own so you can actually exploit your faith benefits you also miss out. Everyone remembers the really aggressive religious races where a bunch of religious civs were in the game and took all the religion slots by turn 60, but not the ones where nobody bothered and there were still open slots at turn 200.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:07
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Gabriel Pope posted:The problem is that you're 100% dependent on other civs for your payout. If you're waiting for everyone else to burn through the prophet stack and they're taking their time, you miss out, and if you get impatient and grow your own so you can actually exploit your faith benefits you also miss out. Everyone remembers the really aggressive religious races where a bunch of religious civs were in the game and took all the religion slots by turn 60, but not the ones where nobody bothered and there were still open slots at turn 200. But it also means that they either ignore religion at their peril or help you get yours.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:16
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It's a bit more situational, but Arabia's other abilities don't gently caress around so I think it'll be fine.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:56
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The Madrassa seems extremely strong, since it gives you faith based on the Campus's adjacency bonus, kinda making it a mini holy site.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:03
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Given that holy sites and campuses use the same adjacency bonuses, it would seem that Arabia is uniquely suited to going both science and religion, being able to generate faith from campuses and having more science output from them. Science in the early game would presumably mean you also eventually pick up some faith, faster the more you beeline for the university, and a guaranteed prophet means you don't have to worry about not going all in on faith. So, Arabia is guaranteed to get a religion (either through their natural output due to pursuing science or via prophet) and is a strong science civ. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 18:16
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So who is looking to be the most powerful civ to play based on what we know so far? Scythia and Sumeria seem great for early starts, Sumeria for getting your infrastructure up early, Scythia for mopping up your opponents. Apart from that, Germany seems to be a decent midgame power for both industry and military and of course the newly revealed Arabia has a science focus which has historically been powerful. Seems like they're all pretty powerful in their own way though.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:17
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Meanwhile, if you look at the real world, advanced nations are ones with better infrastructure and a higher proportion of highly-educated citizens. The number of discrete "I know how to do this special thing and you don't" things is usually relatively small and mostly just results in incremental advantages over other nations, kind of like trade secrets. That's not really true at all. As soon as you get past the basics like general flight or communications systems you very quickly get into entire realms where only 1 or 2 countries have the scientific capabilities to do things. Stealth technology, advanced rocketry, advanced communications systems, quantum computing etc. there's really only 1, maybe 2 countries that can actually DO this stuff.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:28
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The greater distinction is that with globalization and commerce driving the world, the only things that aren't universally available are things that aren't being bought or sold, and aren't the result of international scientific efforts. Which is to say, high end military technology. Every other technological advance you can either buy borrow or steal. Some of the high end military tech you can also buy borrow or steal to be honest.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:41
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OwlFancier posted:So, Arabia is guaranteed to get a religion (either through their natural output due to pursuing science or via prophet) and is a strong science civ.  Should point out that Faith alone doesn't generate a Great Prophet; you can purchase one (or ANY Great Person) with a lot of Faith, but it's a lot faster and cheaper through Great Prophet Points (which are generated at Holy Sites). In other news, one of the streamers who has the early access Civ VI accidentally leaked a video (it was unlisted but turned up on a playlist) that was supposed to be shown off tomorrow (when the NDA expires). Didn't catch the video or all the details before the moderators locked it down, but of the things that made it past: -Their review copy still isn't a complete game; it only has 10 Civs and lacks the unrevealed/very recent reveals, so Russia or Gorgo won't be seen before their First Look videos. -Only Prince difficulty, only Quick and Standard speeds. only Islands, Continents, and Pangaea maps. -The streamer was playing as Greece and confirms that the starting government gets the bonus Wildcard policy slot (Chiefdom normally only has 1 Military and 1 Economic slot). -Kongo gets +5 Great Work slots in their Palace (didn't see if that was part of the Civ ability or Leader ability). Mvemba's agenda is wanting to be converted to a religion; he dislikes anyone who's founded one but is not spreading it to his cities.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:35
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Arabia actually looks really neat to me. You spend the early game mainly working on science and general infrastructure, not totally ignoring religious stuff, but banking all the faith... and then mid game, without even trying, you get a free religion and a university that gives your science district holy-site-levels of faith. Your religion might come last, but it will come out strong. I like it when gameplay reflects history.
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Sep 28, 2016 20:43
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It makes sense with his abilities but there's something a little historically weird about an African kingdom being like "You guys aren't converting me hard enough"
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Sep 28, 2016 20:42
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Hogama posted:-Only Prince difficulty Nice move, this way people can't complain that the game isn't challenging. (I am not being sarcastic, this is a legit good approach to giving pre-release builds to super-players) Hogama posted:Mvemba's agenda is wanting to be converted to a religion; he dislikes anyone who's founded one but is not spreading it to his cities. Poz my neg faith.
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Sep 28, 2016 20:50
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Civ 6 $48 on Bundle Stars which is the cheapest I've seen. Is that site legit for proper steam games? I've only bought crappy bundles from them before.
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Sep 28, 2016 21:05
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That's pretty good. I don't like to preorder generally but Firaxis usually doesn't do anything too egregious with their preorder bonuses. I wish we knew more about the DLC, because it might make the deluxe edition worth it. I don't care about maps or scenarios, but I will want all the civs if the game is good.
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Sep 29, 2016 03:13
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OwlFancier posted:Given that holy sites and campuses use the same adjacency bonuses, it would seem that Arabia is uniquely suited to going both science and religion, being able to generate faith from campuses and having more science output from them. Sounds distinctly like someone at Firaxis had the Islamic Golden Age in mind when designing Arabia, which is a novel approach and quite a good one.
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Sep 29, 2016 03:26
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Glass of Milk posted:That's pretty good. I don't like to preorder generally but Firaxis usually doesn't do anything too egregious with their preorder bonuses. I wish we knew more about the DLC, because it might make the deluxe edition worth it. I don't care about maps or scenarios, but I will want all the civs if the game is good. Yeah it's super vague, but sid meier's got me so good I'm just going to break down and spend $100 on video game I won't even get to play for a month
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Sep 29, 2016 04:07
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That Arabia UA must be a response to Byzantiums absolutely lackluster UA in Civ V where it was drat near useless unless you got the right start.
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Sep 29, 2016 04:28
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FuzzySlippers posted:Civ 6 $48 on Bundle Stars which is the cheapest I've seen. Is that site legit for proper steam games? I've only bought crappy bundles from them before. The digital deluxe edition is pretty much the same cost as the regular at its normal price. That's a way good deal. Did you buy it? I've never heard of Bundle Stars.
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Sep 29, 2016 04:36
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Hamlet442 posted:The digital deluxe edition is pretty much the same cost as the regular at its normal price. That's a way good deal. Did you buy it? I've never heard of Bundle Stars. I grabbed the regular edition and it activated a pre-order on Steam immediately. Looks legit.
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Sep 29, 2016 05:17
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Yeah, but should you trust sites like that with your credit card info?
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Sep 29, 2016 05:26
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hopeandjoy posted:Yeah, but should you trust sites like that with your credit card info? They're probably laundering money for organized crime. It would be silly if they were loving you over while you were helping them do it.
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Sep 29, 2016 05:50
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They take PayPal which is what I used. Though both times my cards have been stolen it was through a local so I don't have much internet card paranoia. It also looks like they are an official reseller like gmg not a weird key auction site or something.
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Sep 29, 2016 07:12
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