Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Hubis
May 18, 2003

Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

wormil posted:

I've been reading old woodworking journals (early 20th century) and here was an interesting tip ...

to remove a dent from wood, soak sawdust in water, apply over the dent and let sit overnight. Obvious enough. But the 2nd part is new to me -- if in a hurry fill the dent with wood alcohol and light it on fire. If the wood catches fire, blow it out, then fill the dent again and repeat until the dent is raised. (or your project is burnt up?)

Hmm, so is the idea that the alcohol permeates, then the heat from burning turns some of the moisture in the wood to steam, thus pushing out the sent? Seems like an early/inferior version of the iron trick.

wormil posted:

Here was tip: cement for stopping flaws in wood. Take fine sawdust, mix with boiling water and let it remain a week or ten days, occasionally stirring, then boil it for some time. Put it in coarse cloth and squeeze out the moisture. When needed, mix with thinned glue and push into cracks or holes in the wood.

This sounds like they are basically pulping the sawdust into raw fibers, then using that with the glue to make an early fiber composite! Neat! I suppose if you use native sawdust from the piece, it has the advantage of being able to stain roughly like the host wood as well?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!

Granite Octopus posted:

Im currently building a handtool-focused workbench, based on some plans I made after reading Chris Schwarz’s Workbench Design book.

Originally, I was going to use Roubo-style dovetailed mortise and tenon joints to attach the top. However, I changed my mind as I want to be able to separate the top and the base for ease of movement. The top alone is currently around 60kg and is a pain to move even with two people.
Instead, I’ll use some dowels inserted into the top of the legs to hold the top in place, and possibly a few metal brackets to prevent it from lifting off the base (unlikely, but the results would be unpleasant)

The stretchers are 90mm high (3.5 inches), as this was the widest stock I could cheaply acquire in the species I wanted. The stretchers would be joined to the legs with internally-mitred mortise and tenon joints.

The smaller stretches, coupled with no longer having the mortise and tenon joints for the top, makes me wary of racking. Is 90mm too small for the stretchers? I'd plan on having 30mm shoulders on both the top and the bottom of the tenon.



So I built my SYP Roubo many years back, so hopefully my recollections on the joinery are still valid.

On the stretchers issue, 3.5 is certainly smaller than the 5.5 that I used, but it should be ok. I think I did the mitered tenon's, but I definitely drawbore everything and it has been rock solid for 8 years. I highly recommend drawboring for bench joints if they aren't the exposed dovetail tenon's you were planning on doing. I would not go with shoulders nearly as large as you've planned for the top and bottom. 10-15mm tops, if at all.

For removing the top: how often do you need to do that? If it's "once in a lifetime" I'd use regular tenons without glue and drawbore them. When you move just drill out the drawbore pegs and then when you reattach, size them up. Which sounds similar to your planned approach.

I see you have a face vise shown, while vises are a very personal preference, I'm just going to say leg vises are da best :)

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

I need to build a bunch of large (40x30) picture frames. I don't really know what I'm doing -- I built a prototype out of some poplar I found in home depot and it fell apart when I tried to hammer some reinforcing nails in the joints. I'm selling the finished product (along with very expensive glass and matted picture) so I want to make sure the end product isn't going to fall apart and kill someone. A 40x30 frame with museum glass is heavy!

I don't really know if there is a specific kind of wood I should be using. Any recommendations?

For the corners, what's a good way to reinforce the joints? Every video on youtube seems to do it differently. I have tried drilling a hole through both ends and gluing in a wooden dowel as well, but the dowel is so weak I don't understand how it can be adding any strength.

Lastly -- I want to give the final product a very smooth, matt black finish. Is a spray paint the best option?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



InternetJunky posted:

I need to build a bunch of large (40x30) picture frames. I don't really know what I'm doing -- I built a prototype out of some poplar I found in home depot and it fell apart when I tried to hammer some reinforcing nails in the joints. I'm selling the finished product (along with very expensive glass and matted picture) so I want to make sure the end product isn't going to fall apart and kill someone. A 40x30 frame with museum glass is heavy!

I don't really know if there is a specific kind of wood I should be using. Any recommendations?

For the corners, what's a good way to reinforce the joints? Every video on youtube seems to do it differently. I have tried drilling a hole through both ends and gluing in a wooden dowel as well, but the dowel is so weak I don't understand how it can be adding any strength.

Lastly -- I want to give the final product a very smooth, matt black finish. Is a spray paint the best option?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

You almost certainly want to find someone who is more experienced, since you admit you don't really know what you're doing, and this is not a beginner's project.

I can tell you what worked for me years ago with 1/4" beveled glass, (and maybe I can find a pic) 2" stiles & rails- the job specced mahogany, but you could probably get away with anything, pine included that will take an even finish. Mitered corners, and use 2 dowels in each joint. Invest in a dowel jig. You need the back of the frame pieces rabbeted out to allow the glass (1/4"?) to sit in, plus thin molding you're going to run all along the back of the frame. That's where the beveled glass helped me, because it was about 1/8" at the edge. The molding is what will secure the glass and stiffen the entire frame- not the dowels. You can predrill that for some tiny tacks made for this, or there are tiny nailguns made for this. Invest in one of those. One miss, however, and your glass is probably toast unless it's tempered (I doubt this) and maybe even with tempered glass on an edge.

Or (just spitballing here) you could go with a cope & stick joinery- but you don't have the equipment- and wedge some little sticky pads along the back of the frame pieces periodically to kill the floating frame technique and stiffen it up. It's the opposite intent of why this joinery was developed, but for you imperative. (If anyone's interested, I can detail how I was able to do this for a finished frame without having to mask the glass panels. I don't think it would be feasible for this project)

For finishing, yes, a spray finish. A cup gun (typically needs a compressor) and lacquer would probably suit your needs, but there's lots of options. A pro could get by with Krylon, but.....

InternetJunky
May 25, 2002

Mr. Mambold posted:

You almost certainly want to find someone who is more experienced, since you admit you don't really know what you're doing, and this is not a beginner's project.

I can tell you what worked for me years ago with 1/4" beveled glass, (and maybe I can find a pic) 2" stiles & rails- the job specced mahogany, but you could probably get away with anything, pine included that will take an even finish. Mitered corners, and use 2 dowels in each joint. Invest in a dowel jig. You need the back of the frame pieces rabbeted out to allow the glass (1/4"?) to sit in, plus thin molding you're going to run all along the back of the frame. That's where the beveled glass helped me, because it was about 1/8" at the edge. The molding is what will secure the glass and stiffen the entire frame- not the dowels. You can predrill that for some tiny tacks made for this, or there are tiny nailguns made for this. Invest in one of those. One miss, however, and your glass is probably toast unless it's tempered (I doubt this) and maybe even with tempered glass on an edge.

Or (just spitballing here) you could go with a cope & stick joinery- but you don't have the equipment- and wedge some little sticky pads along the back of the frame pieces periodically to kill the floating frame technique and stiffen it up. It's the opposite intent of why this joinery was developed, but for you imperative. (If anyone's interested, I can detail how I was able to do this for a finished frame without having to mask the glass panels. I don't think it would be feasible for this project)

For finishing, yes, a spray finish. A cup gun (typically needs a compressor) and lacquer would probably suit your needs, but there's lots of options. A pro could get by with Krylon, but.....
Thanks for the detailed reply. Lots of words in there I was unfamiliar with but I was able to figure out what you meant for everything but the part about the molding that will secure the glass.

For my prototype I used 3/4" x 1.5" strips of poplar (I want thin frames). I used a table saw to cut a 1/4" rabbet that would hold the glass, picture, and backing. Once the glass, matt board, picture, and foamcore backing are in the frame I have a point driver (http://www.unitedmfrs.com/cart/detail.cfm?item=5456) that I use to hold it all in there.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I'm gonna second the advice of getting experienced assistance with this if you can, especially if you're planning on selling something. Frames aren't easy to do well, unfortunately, especially at the scale you're talking about. Is there a maker space in your area? How about a community college carpentry class?

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Granite Octopus posted:

Is 90mm too small for the stretchers? I'd plan on having 30mm shoulders on both the top and the bottom of the tenon.

My former lathe stand was built with ~90mm stretchers and it was very rigid but much smaller than your workbench and didn't need to resist racking forces as much. My gut tells me 90mm is undersized for a bench this size, something more like 140-180 mm would be about right. Even Scandinavian benches usually have stretchers over 100mm. The shoulders are what prevent racking, here is a technique I've used in the past to get wider shoulders without beefing up the frame too much and you can make them decorative if you want.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Hubis posted:

Hmm, so is the idea that the alcohol permeates, then the heat from burning turns some of the moisture in the wood to steam, thus pushing out the sent? Seems like an early/inferior version of the iron trick.

Except they had irons... seems likely it was a known technique. Alcohol will swell wood fibers. I'm just thinking aloud ... I can't think of a better explanation than yours.

edit; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdtsa4Sazvw

Hubis posted:

This sounds like they are basically pulping the sawdust into raw fibers, then using that with the glue to make an early fiber composite! Neat! I suppose if you use native sawdust from the piece, it has the advantage of being able to stain roughly like the host wood as well?

In theory, if you stain before adding glue it could work but it wasn't mentioned in the book. They were probably assuming hide glue. The suggestion was use the same species of wood and the repair would be nearly invisible. On the surface it sounds like the ol' mix sawdust and glue trick but all the preparation had to have a reason or they wouldn't have bothered.

wormil fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Sep 28, 2016

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
Using a flat iron would require something in your workshop to heat it. If "Goodie wyf doest not allow thee to useth her washing Iron"

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

learnincurve posted:

Using a flat iron would require something in your workshop to heat it. If "Goodie wyf doest not allow thee to useth her washing Iron"

We're not talking quite that far back. The book was dated 1909, Hints for Carpenters by Albert Fair but was a compendium of tips from "The Practical Carpenter," a periodical I'm assuming, I haven't been able to track it down. A heat source would have been no problem: candle, lantern, gasoline torch, wood stove.

Also fun reading the correspondence sections, keeping in mind the letters are responding to comments months earlier, they are in many ways not so different than internet forums. Some of these discussions would go back and forth over a number of issues. Guys submitted drawings for things they built, declaring them the best possible version of that thing to the exclusion of all others! Search no further for I have built the ultimate carpenter's tool box! There is none like it in all the world! My technique for finish shellac will be the last you ever try for it is the best technique! They are a hoot. One guy offered $10 for the best tool chest and for months people were mailing in sketches and declaring themselves the winner. And of course, in every issue someone is asking a question that was just answered in the previous issue.

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy
After checking out Flexner's book on finishing, I am about to attempt to finish an oak front door threshold. I've sanded back to bare wood, then up to 220 and given it an "acceptable" stain application. I've settled on spar urethane, and Minwax sells Helmsman, which is oil-based, and Pro Series, which is water-based.

Any recommendations? The water-based seems to have a faster recoat time but recommends 4 coats vs 3. The thing I'm most concerned with is the door and storm door have rubber sweeps on them, so I'm sort of stuck with a wide open front door while each coat dries, and that may take a while because it's in the 60s here and is probably going to be overcast or rainy for a week. The right answer is probably "do it a month ago," but here we are, and I don't feel like I should leave it over the winter.

Not the end of the world if I boof it, I can just sand the finish off next summer and try again, but I'm trying to learn and would like to try to get it right.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

uwaeve posted:

water vs oil

I don't know which one is "better" but waterbase typically dries faster and has very little odor compared to oil varnish which stinks to high heaven for days or longer.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
Just removed new and shiny power tool from basket and spent that money on plywood, veneer and a really cracking large bit of waney edge wood some old fella did far too much prep on. I think I'm getting it now :D

Dr. Garbanzo
Sep 14, 2010
As a part of my training as a woodwork teacher I got to spend 3 days in a different school producing a small occasional table along with a turned spindle to demonstrate our skills on the lathe. The table had to include as many machining operations as could be fitted in apart from the dovetails in the drawer that had to be done by hand. It was supposed to have a false front on the drawer but I decided that I didn't want that to put the dovetails on display. Without further ado:

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat
Well, some tools arrived. Day off of work tomorrow. Think all that is left is some mineral spirits and some wood to practice on.

Black & Decker Workmate
Stiff back saw
What I suspect is an OK dovetail chisel
Some wider meh chisels
Mallet
Sharpening stones
A few clamps

Not too concerned about actually making something just gets but I guess I need to start some time. Kinda discouraged by planes at the moment.

Cannon_Fodder
Jul 17, 2007

"Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc
I sharpened every plane/chisel I owned yesterday and got started in restoring 2 disston saws.

I was bummed, not because I cut myself while sharpening a rebate plane's iron, but because I felt it. I'm disappointed that it wasn't sharp enough that I kinda just noticed it after.

Then, about an hour later, I noticed I got 2 fingers and not just one and felt a little better.

I really need finer grit stones, the ones I have aren't leaving me very satisfied.

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!

Palicgofueniczekt posted:


What I suspect is an OK dovetail chisel
Some wider meh chisels


Unless you mean fishtail chisel, all a "dovetail chisel" is, is a properly made bevel edge chisel with small lands that won't damage the tails while you are chopping/paring.

You could have just bought a 1/4" 1/2" and 1-1/4" Narex chisels from Lee Valley and you'd have been set until you wanted to make a major upgrade. Their molded spine backsaws are also the best deal in backsaws when it comes to quality per dollar.

Guess I should write a "getting good tools on a budget" op?

Btw if you are discouraged by plane prices, go to a place like the woodnet classifieds forum and find someone who restores planes well, and has a good rep, buy a jack plane from them and then buy a new quality blade and chip breaker from Lee Valley or hock. Sharpen the original blade with a camber for rough work and sharpen the new blade with much smaller camber for smoothing and jointing. You can go a long way with a single jack plane and two blades.

You'll be out $50-$60 for the restored plane a d another $40ish for a new high quality blade and chip breaker

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

I just bought a 1920s Stanley No 5 on ebay for $33 shipped. No rust or pitting, just needed five minutes of sharpening and oiling and it worked great on my long boards last night. It's not hard to find deals if you're patient and willing to let good ones go to higher bidders until you nab one at a good price.

I always love reading effort posts about tools, if you want to write one. I found the hand tool buying guides on woodandshop.com to be particularly excellent. Here's the one on hand planes http://woodandshop.com/woodworking-hand-tool-buying-guide-handplanes/

ColdPie fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Sep 29, 2016

Skippy Granola
Sep 3, 2011

It's not what it looks like.
Sheesh, conversely I bought a new mexican-made Stanley no. 5 and the sole is The Worst - bellied lengthwise in the middle, twisted slightly, it's disgraceful.

On the upside I'm going to get a lot of exercise truing it.

Edit: Plane question. In order to get an even shaving, I need to push the adjustment lever all the way to the right. The cap iron looks even across the width of the blade and I have it set back about 4mm. Did I put it on wrong? I'll post a picture tonight if it'll help.

Skippy Granola fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Sep 29, 2016

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy
Thanks wormil, I'll probably just use the water-based. Just wanted to check in case there was something I was missing.

I realize the thread is generally for much more sophisticated work, but it seemed like the best place to ask: how would I go about making a box out of 2x4s and/or 3/4" plywood to stand two hanging cabinets off the wall by 16"? Dimensions would be like 60" wide, 30" high, 16" deep. Could easily be split into narrower sections like two 30" or three 20". I've hung the French cleat on the wall, so this box will hang from that. Then I'll put a cleat on the front of this to hang the cabinets from. Come to think of it, I probably will do it in sections just to make it easier to lift into place.

It can look like garbage as it will never be seen, and aside from adding weight to the whole of what the wall is going to take through the cleat, it doesn't need to be absolutely structurally optimized, just needs to not fold. Basically planning on glue and #10 by 3" or 4" wood screws. Also I'm somewhere below "never even tried it" on the woodworking spectrum, so I would prefer to avoid any respectable joinery techniques. I am planning to try my hand, but this particular project I just want to put behind me atm.

From a bracing perspective I feel like from the side it should look like a rectangle with the brace going from the top of the front to the bottom of the back? Or will a 16x30 piece of 3/4" (or two laminated together) ply be enough to keep the thing from collapsing? I'm not too worried about stability along the width dimension, since the cabinets have small strips of wood on either side, flush with the face and extending to the walls, effectively wedging them in between two parallel walls. That is, if you grab the cabinets and try to move them left or right, the structure I'm looking to build isn't going to see any load, the left or right wall picks it up. I can draw some pictures if it would help.

This seems super rudimentary but figured I'd ask. I have a miter saw, table saw, etc so I think I have what I need, just looking for inspiration.

It's for a laundry room, so it will have MDF/chipboard cabinets hanging from it. Which will have stuff like the gallon jugs of detergent, but I'm not stacking dishes and glassware in them or anything.

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!

Skippy Granola posted:

Sheesh, conversely I bought a new mexican-made Stanley no. 5 and the sole is The Worst - bellied lengthwise in the middle, twisted slightly, it's disgraceful.

On the upside I'm going to get a lot of exercise truing it.

Edit: Plane question. In order to get an even shaving, I need to push the adjustment lever all the way to the right. The cap iron looks even across the width of the blade and I have it set back about 4mm. Did I put it on wrong? I'll post a picture tonight if it'll help.

Sever. You have a boat anchor, cut your losses and buy a vintage plane, you'll save so much time and have a better end result.

Waldstein Sonata
Feb 19, 2013

Cannon_Fodder posted:

I sharpened every plane/chisel I owned yesterday and got started in restoring 2 disston saws.

I was bummed, not because I cut myself while sharpening a rebate plane's iron, but because I felt it. I'm disappointed that it wasn't sharp enough that I kinda just noticed it after.

Then, about an hour later, I noticed I got 2 fingers and not just one and felt a little better.

I really need finer grit stones, the ones I have aren't leaving me very satisfied.

If you're looking for some nice water stones, I've been happy with the Sigma Power ceramic stones. I use the 1000#, 8000#, and 13000# stones and my two endorsements for the edge they can give are:

-I was finishing a benchtop with a Tsunesaburo smoothing plane and broke out the micrometer because of how thin the shavings were. 0.0006" full width shavings, I was impressed (and the finish was also quite nice).
-A few weeks ago, when I took a chunk of my thumb and most of my thumbnail off with a Stanley block plane, all I felt was a thump followed by that gut feeling of "something bad just happened." It wasn't until the antiseptic hit it that the pain showed up.

They're not cheap but they put a hell of an edge on in a hurry. I'd used oil stones for a few years before picking these up and it was an easy transition since these are hard water stones, so they dish slowly and you're less likely accidentally dig in with the tool. They work exceptionally well on very pure carbon steels like O1 or Japanese white steel, the stones just eat the metal to put an edge and polish the surface in no time. They're slower on Chrome-Vanadium steels, like Narex chisels, but that's just the Vanadium doing its job and they'll still get crazy sharp with just a little extra time. I bought my set through toolsfromjapan.com since it also came with a diamond stone to flatten them for a good bit less than ordering from Lee Valley. It just takes a few weeks for it to arrive since it's being shipped from Japan.

Cpt.Wacky
Apr 17, 2005

GEMorris posted:

Sever. You have a boat anchor scrub plane, cut your losses and buy a vintage plane, you'll save so much time and have a better end result.

Put a heavy camber on the blade and it's not a total loss at least.

ColdPie
Jun 9, 2006

Skippy Granola posted:

Sheesh, conversely I bought a new mexican-made Stanley no. 5 and the sole is The Worst - bellied lengthwise in the middle, twisted slightly, it's disgraceful.

On the upside I'm going to get a lot of exercise truing it.

Edit: Plane question. In order to get an even shaving, I need to push the adjustment lever all the way to the right. The cap iron looks even across the width of the blade and I have it set back about 4mm. Did I put it on wrong? I'll post a picture tonight if it'll help.

With the cap iron loose, the blade probably has a little play. Set the adjustable lever to the middle and try to get the blade as straight as possible, then tighten the cap iron. Test for even shavings on some soft scrap wood. Use the adjuster or a tiny hammer for fine adjustment.

But if your sole was hosed out of the box...

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!
Glue 80 grit sandpaper to a flat place and go to town. It won't take that long to flatten a sole.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

uwaeve posted:

how would I go about making a box out of 2x4s and/or 3/4" plywood to stand two hanging cabinets off the wall by 16"?

There are lots of books on making cabinets but you can use screws and glue, pocket holes are even better. I would recommend plywood instead of 2x4s. Kitchen style cabinetry is lighter built because it gains strength from the whole and since you have two walls supporting yours it doesn't have to be heavy duty.

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy

wormil posted:

There are lots of books on making cabinets but you can use screws and glue, pocket holes are even better. I would recommend plywood instead of 2x4s. Kitchen style cabinetry is lighter built because it gains strength from the whole and since you have two walls supporting yours it doesn't have to be heavy duty.

I may have been unclear initially...if not, and you are simply saying "use standard cabinet building techniques to make your box," then I will look into those. I do have a Kreg jig, so I can at least do the pocket screws.

In case I wasn't clear, I'm not building cabinets, I'm trying to move existing cabinets from the wall to 16" out from the wall.

I have two existing garbage tier cabinets that were hanging in our laundry room. I then bought new front loaders that sit on pedestals, the top surfaces of which are a half inch above the bottom of the cabinets (before I took em off the wall). So I had to pull the cabinets off, and was going to just move them up a couple of inches. Then I got the bright idea to move them out to almost flush with the front of the appliances, because if I just moved them up they become close to unusable except for the very bottom shelf (the bottom of the cabinet) due to the fact that the cabinet front is now 20" set back from something that comes up close to my chest. So now I'm trying to figure out how to make something I can hang on the wall that's 16" deep, that I can then rehang the existing cabinets on.

The answer may be "make your first lovely cabinets, leave off hinges and doors, and hang your existing shifty cabinets from the ones you just made."

Sorry for the life story, just want to be clear before I try to build something.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
Workspace: 1.20m x 1.30m
Tools: Jigsaw. Black and decker workmate. Hacksaw. Clamps. Drill. Rulers. Pencil.
Materials: 44mm x 75mm x 3600mm (cheated by cutting in long hallway) spruce. 10mm x 40mm dowls. Glue.

result: one ugly yet sturdy step stool.

I am never buying wood from B&Q again. I'd rather use "character" wood, at least it's honest.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

uwaeve posted:

In case I wasn't clear, I'm not building cabinets, I'm trying to move existing cabinets from the wall to 16" out from the wall.

Actually that's how I read it but assumed I was misunderstanding because I couldn't imagine why you would want to do that but now it makes sense. Rereading your original post, if I understand you have walls on both sides to pick up the load so the only concern is attaching it to the back wall which is a french cleat and sag in the center? I think you're in good shape. A box is a box, you need at least 5 sides for strength.

Granite Octopus
Jun 24, 2008

GEMorris posted:

So I built my SYP Roubo many years back, so hopefully my recollections on the joinery are still valid.

On the stretchers issue, 3.5 is certainly smaller than the 5.5 that I used, but it should be ok. I think I did the mitered tenon's, but I definitely drawbore everything and it has been rock solid for 8 years. I highly recommend drawboring for bench joints if they aren't the exposed dovetail tenon's you were planning on doing. I would not go with shoulders nearly as large as you've planned for the top and bottom. 10-15mm tops, if at all.

For removing the top: how often do you need to do that? If it's "once in a lifetime" I'd use regular tenons without glue and drawbore them. When you move just drill out the drawbore pegs and then when you reattach, size them up. Which sounds similar to your planned approach.

I see you have a face vise shown, while vises are a very personal preference, I'm just going to say leg vises are da best :)

I wasn't going to bother with the drawbores but you've convinced me. As for removing the top, I'll probably have to move at least 2 more times in the immediate future. Straight tenons for attaching the top sounds like a good idea, but I won't bother drawboring them till I know I won't be moving (or if it needs more stability) since it seems I could easily do that after the fact.

I've never used a leg vice, only face vices like that one. In future I could replace it with a leg vice and move it to the end.

wormil posted:

My former lathe stand was built with ~90mm stretchers and it was very rigid but much smaller than your workbench and didn't need to resist racking forces as much. My gut tells me 90mm is undersized for a bench this size, something more like 140-180 mm would be about right. Even Scandinavian benches usually have stretchers over 100mm. The shoulders are what prevent racking, here is a technique I've used in the past to get wider shoulders without beefing up the frame too much and you can make them decorative if you want.



Thanks for the help! Looks like I can get 140x45mm for the stretchers which should beef it up considerably.

uwaeve
Oct 21, 2010



focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened
Lipstick Apathy

wormil posted:

Actually that's how I read it but assumed I was misunderstanding because I couldn't imagine why you would want to do that but now it makes sense. Rereading your original post, if I understand you have walls on both sides to pick up the load so the only concern is attaching it to the back wall which is a french cleat and sag in the center? I think you're in good shape. A box is a box, you need at least 5 sides for strength.

I think I have it figured out based on your advice, probably going to do two 30" wide plywood boxes with pocket screws, maybe glue as well. Each box will probably be missing a bottom face. Maybe a top one too, if I'm worried about weight.

The rest below is just explaining myself, not to derail further. Could be entertaining as people watch me struggle with third-grade physics.

The entire load is going to the back wall in my current plan. When I mentioned the side walls I was simply saying I didn't need bracing to resist movement (I'd call it racking I guess) in the left-right direction because the cabinets touch the walls on the sides. Like in my mind, other than collapsing during handling and installation, a four-sided box with no top or bottom face would be sufficient because there was no way it could collapse against the wall in a parallelogram once the cabinets are installed. If I wind up doing this I'll probably just tack on some scrap wood diagonal braces so each four sided box doesn't collapse, saving the weight of a 60"x16" sheet of plywood.

It may be worth finding studs in the side walls and actually screwing through the sides of the cabinets to pick them up, not sure yet. I'm going to see how heavy my boxes are. I can also rout out some speed holes, leaving a thick x-shaped webbing in each face. :v:

In my simple world, the box faces that are parallel to the side walls are going to be doing all the work, since once the cabinets are sort of wedged in, the thing I'm building can't rack along either of the other two axes. I think.

For the record, here are pictures. We can refer to these later in the postmortem and laugh.



You can see the outline of the cabinets by the lack of cream paint. That French cleat up top is in with two 4" #10 screws into each of the four studs. There's a similar wall on the right, parallel to the wall with the window.

The goal is to get the cabinets out from the back wall far enough so I can simply open the cabinet, pull this out a couple of inches:



And dispense into this, on top of the washer:



I realize that this "problem" can be solved by just rehanging the cabinets and buying a nine dollar step stool, but what the gently caress fun is that? Seeing if I can make something that doesn't result in firing cabinets through the top of brand new appliances keeps things interesting.

uwaeve fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 30, 2016

Cannon_Fodder
Jul 17, 2007

"Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc

Granite Octopus posted:



I've never used a leg vice, only face vices like that one. In future I could replace it with a leg vice and move it to the end.


Your table has 4 legs. Go hog wild.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any. :(

Got a whole bunch of 10+ year old roughsawn (circular mill) cherry for free 2 weeks ago, so I made a kitchen helper thing for my niece.


It was down at 10%ish moisture content, and after milling it all down and leaving it alone for a week, none of it moved at all.





Had a couple pieces that ended up being slightly curly.

Things learned: I'm vastly more accurate when I use a marking knife, I really need to get around to buying a miter saw, and glue cleanup on joints with a reveal continues to be the worst part of woodworking. Also cherry is softer than I remembered.

Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Oct 1, 2016

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!
Use hide glue and cleanup on those joints is a breeze

coathat
May 21, 2007

Speaking of hide glue are the liquid ones any good?

GEMorris
Aug 28, 2002

Glory To the Order!

coathat posted:

Speaking of hide glue are the liquid ones any good?

Yes, just check the date. Old Brown Glue and Titebond Hide glue are both good.

They are the gateway drug to buying you own glue pot tho.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!
Woodworking journals of the late 1800's. Suck it Fine Woodworking

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Interesting take on the TARDIS on the left there.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Hypnolobster posted:

Got a whole bunch of 10+ year old roughsawn (circular mill) cherry for free 2 weeks ago, so I made a kitchen helper thing for my niece.

:argh:

Is this kind of thing even remotely common for you? I would have had to spend probably $100 on lumber to make that piece assuming I'm reading the scale right. Looks nice, incidentally.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

:argh:

Is this kind of thing even remotely common for you? I would have had to spend probably $100 on lumber to make that piece assuming I'm reading the scale right. Looks nice, incidentally.

It fell off the back of a truck.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply