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mind the walrus posted:And how. I had high hopes for JJ but two episodes with Krysten Ritter was enough to make me "nope" the gently caress out. She's the only genuine miscasting I've seen Marvel Studios make. I really love Krysten Ritter from Breaking Bad, and there's some great moments and sequences that show her range and ability - most notably, the argument her and Kilgrave have during the probable best episode of the season when they're doing the weird Stepford Wives thing. I think a lot of the problem is that they make her stare into the middle distance a lot and speak some harsh sarcastic one-liner and then make that into her "character", and the show eliminates the elements of her character that show her range especially in its second half. Like, Malcolm/Jeri Hogarth/ Luke Cage are the best parts of JJ and bring the aspects of her character that isn't "smarmy rear end in a top hat" to the fore, and the show basically completely marginalizes them from episode 7 on. I dunno, it just feels like the show completely flails at ending anything except for the Kilgrave plot well, to the point where all these running plotlines that had previously dominated screentime - several of which were bad - feel totally pointless in retrospect. Like, it's really hard seeing the point of any part of the Trish/ Simpson plotline, which itself was pretty poor, since it doesn't conclude really at all. He just sorta disappears from the face of the earth after Trish and JJ knock him out.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:09
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MrAristocrates posted:I went looking for it and couldn't find it but yeah, this. Yeah, no, I've never done this. That's some bullshit, homie. Also, you can't say I criticized pacing of the latter half (something I've never done) and then gone "No wait you criticized character arcs" (which is soemthing completely different). I think you're confusing my criticism of how awful The Line is as a moment of catharsis/character arcing for the Cage/Jones romance as a treatise on the show's latter half in general, which is especially silly considering Cage is barely present in the show's latter half. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 00:12
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Yeah, no, I've never done this. That's some bullshit, homie. You made lengthy complains about Trish and how she was a totally different character and all of that, without ever seeing how her plot ended. That alone disproves your argument.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:12
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Yeah, no, I've never done this. That's some bullshit, homie. I can't find the specific post I was looking for, which absolutely exists, for the record, but here: Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I still think she would've been a weaker element of JJ (especially considering her arc in JJ season one is "causes problems for JJ, has sex, and gets In Trouble" with very little variation) but at the very least, like I mentioned in that post you quoted but didn't read as you are wont to do, she would've arrived with a clean slate.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:13
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MrAristocrates posted:I can't find the specific post I was looking for, which absolutely exists, for the record, but here: Yeah, that's...accurate? Should I have specified "for the first half of season one"? That seems at best needlessly specific. And even then, it's still pretty much completely accurate to what Trish's arc or lack thereof of season one there is.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:15
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And my real issue isn't even with that, it's with your constant need to be a huge goddamn wet blanket about everything whenever someone so much as mentions a show or a movie or whatever you've decided is verboten.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:16
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You can't deceive me, I know that you criticized this show without properly watching it *adds another newspaper clipping to the board, scribbles THUNDERDOME GROUP? in the centre*
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Sep 30, 2016 00:17
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MrAristocrates posted:And my real issue isn't even with that, it's with your constant need to be a huge goddamn wet blanket about everything whenever someone so much as mentions a show or a movie or whatever you've decided is verboten. I made a single post, in good faith, with my opinions about a TV show, and you decided to stop-and-shitpost a snide one-liner about how dare I not watch everything before I form an opinion about it, then claimed I said things I didn't, and I'm the wet blanket?
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Sep 30, 2016 00:18
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Yeah, that's...accurate? Should I have specified "for the first half of season one"? That seems at best needlessly specific. And even then, it's still pretty much completely accurate to what Trish's arc or lack thereof of season one there is. It really isn't but there's no point talking to you about this because you already made clear what your issue is. (She isn't 'accurate to the comic' which you showed off by making snide comments about how she's called Trish seemingly without realizing why that is or that it is a reference to the actual comic character's history.) This is the major issue. You're fine for disliking whatever you dislike but rather than disliking it you descend into hyperbole town and literally make poo poo up to justify not only why you dislike it but why it is the Worst Thing Ever. And even that wouldn't be bad except you appear out of the blue to do it every single time a conversation comes up about that subject. Edit: Here's another: Lick! The! Whisk! posted:The fact that someone who was completely unrecognizable as Patsy Walker was "Trish Walker" for literally no reason outside of her name, as an inexplicable reference to a virtually unknown Marvel superhero, especially considering she shared zero personality traits with the comic book version, was one of the more annoying things about an otherwise mediocre season of television that was JJ season one.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:19
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I made a single post, in good faith, with my opinions about a TV show, and you decided to stop-and-shitpost a snide one-liner about how dare I not watch everything before I form an opinion about it, then claimed I said things I didn't, and I'm the wet blanket? Dude, come the gently caress on. You can't be loving serious. You do this constantly, with multiple shows, in multiple threads. There were years where we just couldn't talk about Hannibal in Couch Chat because you'd immediately show up and ruin the thread.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:22
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Yay someone didn't like a good show as much as they should have. I don't give a poo poo. I'm just waiting for the next good show, it's less than 8 hours away (i hope) so gently caress it.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:27
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MrAristocrates posted:
You can't shitpost, then claim the moral high ground. Because that's literally what you just did. Etiher debate the merit of the argument or don't post, but don't come here with metamodding horseshit out of nowhere and then go "But you did it first, in other ways!" Especially when it involves making up poo poo I didn't say to justify your point.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:27
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BSam posted:Yay someone didn't like a good show as much as they should have. I forget, does Netflix usually put it up at midnight?
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Sep 30, 2016 00:27
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ImpAtom posted:I forget, does Netflix usually put it up at midnight? That's what I've heard. 5pm for me. If I didn't have to work tomorrow morning I'd probably watch it all tonight.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:30
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This isn't loving worth it, whatever man, you win
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Sep 30, 2016 00:30
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I'm actually rather glad lick the whisk chose to resurrect some stupid slapfight from ages ago. I assume it was a deliberate attempt to distract everyone so we aren't just bouncing up and down and counting the minutes until Luke Cage drops.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:34
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lol Anyway, I wonder how they're going to bungle up the extended storyline this time around after a strong start and a couple of strong episodes in the middle.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:36
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Luke Cage was the best part of JJ, Luke Cage the show looks amazing, and it'll almost certainly be the best Marvel Netflix show in existence, so uh.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:37
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Did my usual thing and booked tomorrow as holiday cause it drops at 8am. Hype train is go 
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Sep 30, 2016 00:38
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MrAristocrates posted:This isn't loving worth it, whatever man, you win Oh right, this is Toxxupation you're dealing with, the poster who takes a position and then runs it to 'old man yelling at cloud' levels. For what it's worth I liked JJ, I liked that it actually explored the themes and characters rather than being all about the 'plot'. Seriously, movies and TV are so boring and unsatisfying if you focus on plotting, if you're gonna get hung up on mechanics why watch? You'll be disappointed pretty much every time.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:38
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Anyway, I wonder how they're going to bungle up the extended storyline this time around after a strong start and a couple of strong episodes in the middle.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:42
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:lol That really only applies to JJ and the latter half of DD season 2, and for wildly different reasons: JJ inexplicably used only one arc of Alias as its source material (and then doubled down on it in its latter half, stripping away all the original characters they added to focus on it even more) and the sheer lack of sustainable story showed through - especially in 110 and 111. It just sorta ran out of gas for a good three or four episode stretch before a fairly strong final two episodes. DD S2 had two different plot arcs and one was clearly weaker than the other. They don't seem like problems endemic to the form of the studio more than just your basic writing/showrunning failures. Like, too little story stretched out over too many episodes and "two stories, but one's way worse than the other" are common missteps of any TV show, not a specific studio/network issue.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:43
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Maluco Marinero posted:Oh right, this is Toxxupation you're dealing with, the poster who takes a position and then runs it to 'old man yelling at cloud' levels. Yeah. I think JJ was rough but it was rough in interesting ways. It's one of the few shows I've watched that are just genuinely awful and uncomfortable (though it gets tamer in the second half I think) and are focused on that level of atmosphere. I think overall Daredevil S1 was 'better' but less ambitious. I liked both more than DDS2 but I might have felt different if DDS2 had just been the Punisher plot.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:46
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Maluco Marinero posted:
It's not that the plot was bad, because you're right who the gently caress cares about plot it's characters that are important, it's that JJ often and pretty aggressively fucks up the characters pretty frequently. Jeri Hogarth (who's probably the best character on the show) gets eliminated from the story via a method that ends up selling out the character formed up to that point, and then only briefly reappears at the end. Luke Cage is more justifiable since he was explicitly set up for a spinoff, but it still really sucks overall. Trish and Simpson go nowhere and feel totally superfluous. Malcolm, one of the best elements of the show, sorta fades in and out of relevancy in a way that feels really odd. Robyn is an atrociously awful character who just does not tonally fit at all with the aims of the show, and basically only exists to react to Ruben's death and facilitate the...really kinda wretched tenth episode. It's just kind of a mess overall, Jessica Jones, except for the Kilgrave/JJ stuff, and that's largely because David Tennant does so incredibly well in the role and he doesn't get sort of coldly eliminated from the story like Jeri Hogarth does.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:53
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I kept meaning to rewatch JJ before Luke Cage but I kept forgetting. It's legit my favorite Marvel anything because it's smart about its themes and I really, really enjoy stuff that handles that stuff well even if it's admittedly very flawed in other respects.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:55
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JJ isn't my favorite Marvel thing but it's easily in the top 3 and I think if I liked some of the plots a bit more it'd be my top. I'm hoping Luke Cage is at least that good.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:57
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JJ spoke to me very directly, I'm not surprised other people don't enjoy it as much as I do.
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Sep 30, 2016 00:58
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:That really only applies to JJ and the latter half of DD season 2, and for wildly different reasons: JJ inexplicably used only one arc of Alias as its source material (and then doubled down on it in its latter half, stripping away all the original characters they added to focus on it even more) and the sheer lack of sustainable story showed through - especially in 110 and 111. It just sorta ran out of gas for a good three or four episode stretch before a fairly strong final two episodes. DD S1 ended with an unbelievable wet fart of a finale after hours of build-up. ImpAtom posted:Yeah. I think JJ was rough but it was rough in interesting ways. It's one of the few shows I've watched that are just genuinely awful and uncomfortable (though it gets tamer in the second half I think) It was tame all the way through, really. It relies on sarcasm and an over-the-top supervillain instead of being really uncomfortable (like Black Mirror or something). TV strikes me as not doing that well, since it's not good serial material.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:01
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JJ was TV IV's #2 show of 2015 
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Sep 30, 2016 01:06
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Was anyone else screaming at their TV during JJ to just buy a god drat hunting rifle and [360noscope] Killgrave? JJ had some problems, but the atmosphere was pretty much perfect, dirty and uncomfortable like being violated feels like.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:07
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For what it's worth Sepinwall said Cage falls into the same trap of trying to make a single 13 hour movie and feels flabby in the middle because of it. He still liked the show though.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It was tame all the way through, really. It relies on sarcasm and an over-the-top supervillain instead of being really uncomfortable (like Black Mirror or something). TV strikes me as not doing that well, since it's not good serial material. I genuinely found it really uncomfortable for personal reasons and I thought it did an extremely good job with the atmosphere it was going for. Black Mirror felt a bit too much to actually hit for me, going beyond the point where I was uncomfortable and to the point I was rolling my eyes but it also may just be a cultural gap in that case.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:08
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:DD S1 ended with an unbelievable wet fart of a finale after hours of build-up. Yeah, in serial formats it's really hard to unsettle the audience when you're supposed to be 'hooking' them for the next episode. This is an odd comparison I guess but when I was reading Harry Potter to my son, I really liked how the last one really allowed you to settle into the idea that they've made a horrible mistake and they don't stand a chance. You can't do that without having enough investment from the part of the audience to go there, you'll just lose them otherwise.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:10
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Rarity posted:JJ was TV IV's #2 show of 2015 Really? Huh.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:10
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Daredevil season 1 forgot to have a climax to the story. Everything for taking down Fisk builds, and then it skips ahead and it all happened off screen and he's already on the run.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:19
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I wonder if Daredevil season 2's problem was because of behind the scenes stuff. Like, they had the whole ninja arc plotted out and were going to explain what Black Sky was and why we should care, but then some exec said, "no, we want to introduce magic with Dr. Strange, you can't do magic yet"
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Sep 30, 2016 01:41
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Guy Goodbody posted:I wonder if Daredevil season 2's problem was because of behind the scenes stuff. Like, they had the whole ninja arc plotted out and were going to explain what Black Sky was and why we should care, but then some exec said, "no, we want to introduce magic with Dr. Strange, you can't do magic yet" I think, if anything, what happened is that The Punisher was written into more stuff when they realized he owned and that kind of ate into the rest of the show.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:43
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No, it was just plotted terribly and they overestimated the draw of ninjas.
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Sep 30, 2016 01:43
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Mulva posted:No, it was just plotted terribly and they overestimated the draw of ninjas. What I didn't like was the idea that Matt was getting pulled away from this awesome Punisher case that could put his fledgling law firm on the map because Elektra was such a rush, but nothing about Elektra showed much of a thrill beyond "I'm super rich, hot, and vaguely amoral." It's an intriguing character beat on its own but they hosed the execution to the point where the audience is as pissed at Matt as Foggy and Karen are. The boxing ring loving was p. good though. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 01:59
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"50 posts? Awesome! Luke Cage must've dropped early! I wonder what goons are saying about it..." ... 
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Sep 30, 2016 02:08
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